Looks like misbehaving kids aren't only on Carnival

[FLSteve11]

If that is accurate that is good to know. Either way risk is still there. All offenders didn't have a record at some point. Many ppl don't report sexual abuse as well. Point is ppl need to be responsible parents and protect their children. Allowing them to wander a ship is not safe or good parenting. Still bet there are quite a few sickos on board.

 

I'm sorry, that's just overhyped paranoia. The risk of a stranger abusing a child on a cruise ship is very, very small. Is it zero, of course not. There is no such thing as zero risk. But to say your middle school child cannot spend time on a ship by themselves at any point is just another point of people saying kids don't know how to act responsibly on their own. Of course they don't, if mommy and daddy are holding their hands until they go to college. I'm not saying a middle schooler should be out wandering around at 3am for no reason, no one really should be. An appropriate time should be about when kids clubs end (let's say midnight-1am, which is when RCL has their curfer). There are not roving bands of sickos on cruise ships, outside of maybe on television series. I'm sure you didn't spend every second at your parents side until you turned 18 while you were growing up. Same thing here.

[kc58ab]

You don't know the likelihood of abuse or some other incident is. Even if you did and even if it was a very, very small risk as you stated any risks that I could have easily avoided by not being selfish and incompetent is too much for my children. I've taken my children on plenty of vacations and I didn't let them wander around unattended. Now did my parents watch me every second no, but it also was a very different world when I was a child versus now. How about instead of saying the middle schoolers should be able to do that why not explain why you think as middle schoolers should be able to do that. I don't have any valid reason coming to mind.

[Organized Chaos]

I cannot even guess as to the age as I can't see it, but I wouldn't be opposed to some type of curfew for children under the age of 18 if not in programs or with an adult. I know my children aren't roaming the ship underage alone. As for the person that says there's not even laws like that on land that isn't correct. Many cities have curfews if you're underage. And I can say in the state of Missouri if your under 18 you can't be out driving between the hours of like I believe 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. without an adult.

So since 16 & 17 year olds are allowed out until 1am in MO, if it were up to you, would you impose that same 1am curfew for that age on board the ship? Because some people are floating around the idea of 10pm and I think that's kind of ridiculous for 16 & 17 while on the ship.

[kc58ab]

I don't want to shock you, but my daughter had been able to go to College and was always responsible and mature for age. Even with my over protective hovering. :)

[kc58ab]

So since 16 & 17 year olds are allowed out until 1am in MO, if it were up to you, would you impose that same 1am curfew for that age on board the ship? Because some people are floating around the idea of 10pm and I think that's kind of ridiculous for 16 & 17 while on the ship.

Since you asked, no I would not agree with 1 am, nor were my kids out that late at home. 10 on boat could be early for entertainment, but I'm wrong person to ask bc I wouldn't let my 17 yr old daughter suntan alone during the day on cruise. Important piece is curfew isn't necessary if kids are with parent.

[First and Ten]

Before you go twist my words Chaos (you seem to enjoy that), I did say the under 18 crowd can stay out as late as they want....AS LONG AS THEY ARE WITH THEIR PARENTS OR IN A CARNIVAL CAMP....continue on with your stalking of my posts [emoji16]

[kc58ab]

Exactly if people supervise their children then no curfew would be needed or applied in case of said proposed curfew.

[FLSteve11]

You don't know the likelihood of abuse or some other incident is. Even if you did and even if it was a very, very small risk as you stated any risks that I could have easily avoided by not being selfish and incompetent is too much for my children. I've taken my children on plenty of vacations and I didn't let them wander around unattended. Now did my parents watch me every second no, but it also was a very different world when I was a child versus now. How about instead of saying the middle schoolers should be able to do that why not explain why you think as middle schoolers should be able to do that. I don't have any valid reason coming to mind.

 

I do know based on statistics that the risk of something happening to a child on a ship is remarkably minimal (as it is in most places in the country outside of "bad neighborhoods"). I don't call it selfish and incompetent. I call it guiding my child in what to do and giving her some responsibilities in doing so. And yes, it IS a different world. It's MUCH safer now than it was in the past. Granted, I don't know your age (and not going to ask :) But unless you were a child in the 50s, then they're safer today then you were. If you were a child in the late 70s-early 90s then you're twice as safe now then you were then. The only reason people think otherwise is the news, and internet, publicize every little thing that happens. Fear sells, and we buy into it.

 

I think middle schoolers should be able to do that because most of them, certainly the older ones (let's say 12+) should be capable of being able to handle themselves in a public situation (provided their parents were being appropriate in giving them guidance and instructions in what to do, or not to do). There should be no issues if they are properly behaved in going around the ship to different activities, going to get a bite to eat, going to see a movie or show going on. (No, they should not be jumping off ledges into pools, hitting buttons on elevators, etc. That's misbehaving, not proper behavior). They should also do it so they can actually learn to function and make independent decisions in society. Just look at many of the current college students and recent graduates, and how many issues they have in dealing with the world, getting jobs, takin care of themselves, etc. They were never shown, partly by having the opportunity, to actually be independent and learn how to handle themselves without mom and dad being ever present and likely handling it for them.

[Crusingdiva62]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/sex-assault-victims-cruise-ships-are-often-under-18-n777901

 

 

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[FLSteve11]

I don't want to shock you, but my daughter had been able to go to College and was always responsible and mature for age. Even with my over protective hovering. :)

 

That's good for you, and definitely for her. It's great to see with kids no matter who they are. I know plenty of college kids and graduates of parents who were helicopter parents. Some of them transferred to a college closer to home, or moved back home after college. Some of it because their life skills were lacking. Is it most, no of course not. Plenty do just fine on their own. Are there a couple who had parents who let them be independent, sure. But I definitely see a higher percentage from those who rarely got to do things on their own growing up.

[kc58ab]

FL Steve ...so u are suggesting that kids are relatively safe on land from sexual assault, kidnapping, or murder as long as not in bad neighborhoods? If u want to teach your child responsibility and safety you don't need to do that by turning them loose in small area of thousands of people, to which many are intoxicated.

You didn't ask, but I'm 40. I don't buy my kids are safer now. I grew up Kc and felt safer there in 80s verses now in significantly smaller, more rural area. I would have to see many legitimate stats before I would even entertain that thoery.

I'll say it again, no problem taking the overprotective label and will wear it proudly.

[kc58ab]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/sex-assault-victims-cruise-ships-are-often-under-18-n777901

 

 

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Thanks for the reference. So very sad for those children. Not to mention I'm sure heartwrenching for the parents.

[First and Ten]

FL Steve ...so u are suggesting that kids are relatively safe on land from sexual assault, kidnapping, or murder as long as not in bad neighborhoods? If u want to teach your child responsibility and safety you don't need to do that by turning them loose in small area of thousands of people, to which many are intoxicated.

You didn't ask, but I'm 40. I don't buy my kids are safer now. I grew up Kc and felt safer there in 80s verses now in significantly smaller, more rural area. I would have to see many legitimate stats before I would even entertain that thoery.

I'll say it again, no problem taking the overprotective label and will wear it proudly.

 

 

 

Dont they call overprotective a "helicopter parent" nowadays?

[kc58ab]

Dont they call overprotective a "helicopter parent" nowadays?

 

Well some do. I think there can be a difference. Either way I don't care what anyone wants to label it. In my book it is common sense and good parenting to watch your children on a cruise. I don't know one valid reason not to. A cruise isn't the only opportunity to teach children independence or responsibility. It can be done in endless more controlled, safer environments. Sounds like an excuse by some to not be bothered with their children on family vacation.

[First and Ten]

Well some do. I think there can be a difference. Either way I don't care what anyone wants to label it. In my book it is common sense and good parenting to watch your children on a cruise. I don't know one valid reason not to. A cruise isn't the only opportunity to teach children independence or responsibility. It can be done in endless more controlled, safer environments. Sounds like an excuse by some to not be bothered with their children on family vacation.

 

 

 

I was just asking if that is the term people use....someone's a bit fired up [emoji3]

[FLSteve11]

FL Steve ...so u are suggesting that kids are relatively safe on land from sexual assault, kidnapping, or murder as long as not in bad neighborhoods? If u want to teach your child responsibility and safety you don't need to do that by turning them loose in small area of thousands of people, to which many are intoxicated.

You didn't ask, but I'm 40. I don't buy my kids are safer now. I grew up Kc and felt safer there in 80s verses now in significantly smaller, more rural area. I would have to see many legitimate stats before I would even entertain that thoery.

I'll say it again, no problem taking the overprotective label and will wear it proudly.

 

Actually, yes, they are. If you stay out of the bad neighborhoods then a child is more then relatively safe from rape, murder, sexual assault. Certainly from a stranger. (We had a person down the block arrested for it, after that I got interested in learning about it so looked it all up). The vast majority of cases of all of those occur by a member of the family or close family friend. My daughter rides her bike to school and library or around the neighborhood if she wants, or walks to her friends house. She has to let me know when she goes (and text me when she gets there), but it's not an issue and many of the kids in the neighborhood do.

 

That's what happens. You feel it's worse now, but we didn't have the internet to blast every incident that happens anywhere in the country or world. Back then there was the local news and paper, and if it didn't happen in your neighborhood, well it didn't happen. Now you know if a kid 1000 miles away goes missing (and usually turns to be a runaway or custody dispute, but that followup isn't good news so gets left out). Look up crime statistics for the last couple years, and compare them to 25-30 years ago (when crime was probably at it's worse, I believe I remember 1992 is the peak year for worst violent crime in the US), they're down a good 50% from back then. I grew up in NYC in the late 70s-80s, and I hear more about crime cases now in a generally safe Florida neighborhood (almost all not happening here) then I ever did back then.

 

Now, I'm not saying anyone should just let their kid run off with no guidance. The ones who get into problems are the ones where parents don't set rules (or don't care). We follow some simple (but we're strict on it guidelines) like no going in anyone else's cabin, no letting anyone else in ours while we're not there, no taking a drink from anyone (we give her charging priviledges so she can buy her own virgin drinks or soda). Leave us a note or text us if you're going somewhere for a significant amount of time. Letting your child do things on their own doesn't mean just letting them run wild.

[FLSteve11]

Well some do. I think there can be a difference. Either way I don't care what anyone wants to label it. In my book it is common sense and good parenting to watch your children on a cruise. I don't know one valid reason not to. A cruise isn't the only opportunity to teach children independence or responsibility. It can be done in endless more controlled, safer environments. Sounds like an excuse by some to not be bothered with their children on family vacation.

 

I definitely agree with you there. It is not the place to teach it initially. That should be done at home before you get on the cruise. If you're teaching your child independence all along, then being on a cruise should just be an extension of that. It's not the time to let your kids off on their own for the first time (no vacation should be), when they may be overwhelmed with everything going on. Sadly there ARE parents who just want to "dump their kids" and do things on their own. That's different then what I mean when I say kids should be getting to be independent (if they've already shown they can be at home and their neighborhood).

[Crusingdiva62]

I have been on cruises and have seen 10 year olds with loaded money on sale and sign accounts left to spend it at will. I saw one when the kiosk was down kicking it. When he couldn't see what he had left in his account he went up to purchase some cookies & something to drink the attendant advised him he did not have enough left on his account and he kicked the counter and ran off. The attendant told him he has purchased slot of cookies today and he got offended and sulked off after kicking the counter. Not a parent around monitoring where he was!

 

 

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[FLSteve11]

I have been on cruises and have seen 10 year olds with loaded money on sale and sign accounts left to spend it at will. I saw one when the kiosk was down kicking it. When he couldn't see what he had left in his account he went up to purchase some cookies & something to drink the attendant advised him he did not have enough left on his account and he kicked the counter and ran off. The attendant told him he has purchased slot of cookies today and he got offended and sulked off after kicking the counter. Not a parent around monitoring where he was!

 

 

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Which is clearly inappropriate behavior. There are certainly some kids who don't behave on cruises (well, there are some adults too). You wish their parents would do a better job of teaching their kids manners, but sadly those kids parents are usually the ones drunk in the casino (apple usually doesn't fall too far), and never did.

[kc58ab]

I was just asking if that is the term people use....someone's a bit fired up [emoji3]

 

No fire; I was just answering...:cool:

[kc58ab]

Actually, yes, they are. If you stay out of the bad neighborhoods then a child is more then relatively safe from rape, murder, sexual assault. Certainly from a stranger. (We had a person down the block arrested for it, after that I got interested in learning about it so looked it all up). The vast majority of cases of all of those occur by a member of the family or close family friend. My daughter rides her bike to school and library or around the neighborhood if she wants, or walks to her friends house. She has to let me know when she goes (and text me when she gets there), but it's not an issue and many of the kids in the neighborhood do.

 

That's what happens. You feel it's worse now, but we didn't have the internet to blast every incident that happens anywhere in the country or world. Back then there was the local news and paper, and if it didn't happen in your neighborhood, well it didn't happen. Now you know if a kid 1000 miles away goes missing (and usually turns to be a runaway or custody dispute, but that followup isn't good news so gets left out). Look up crime statistics for the last couple years, and compare them to 25-30 years ago (when crime was probably at it's worse, I believe I remember 1992 is the peak year for worst violent crime in the US), they're down a good 50% from back then. I grew up in NYC in the late 70s-80s, and I hear more about crime cases now in a generally safe Florida neighborhood (almost all not happening here) then I ever did back then.

 

Now, I'm not saying anyone should just let their kid run off with no guidance. The ones who get into problems are the ones where parents don't set rules (or don't care). We follow some simple (but we're strict on it guidelines) like no going in anyone else's cabin, no letting anyone else in ours while we're not there, no taking a drink from anyone (we give her charging priviledges so she can buy her own virgin drinks or soda). Leave us a note or text us if you're going somewhere for a significant amount of time. Letting your child do things on their own doesn't mean just letting them run wild.

 

What I can agree with you on is majority of crimes like murder and sexual abuse are done by family, friends, aka people u know. I doubt bc someone lives or frequents good areas that means they have almost no risk. Surely you know some of the infamous serial killers/rapists evaded by being well spoken and dressed. It's wrong to give false security that if u stay out of bad neighborhoods nothing bad will likely happen to u.

 

I don't know your daughter's age, but based on the bicycle example I'm betting young enough there is no way I'll let mine wander a cruise ship or even my "good" neighborhood and town with low crime rate. Beauty is it is your child so u decide what's best for her. I sincerely hope she is never subject to any horific event where you are like the mom in that article or likely every parent in a similar situation regretting they weren't more cautious.

[kc58ab]

I definitely agree with you there. It is not the place to teach it initially. That should be done at home before you get on the cruise. If you're teaching your child independence all along, then being on a cruise should just be an extension of that. It's not the time to let your kids off on their own for the first time (no vacation should be), when they may be overwhelmed with everything going on. Sadly there ARE parents who just want to "dump their kids" and do things on their own. That's different then what I mean when I say kids should be getting to be independent (if they've already shown they can be at home and their neighborhood).

 

I think where we differ is I don't think a ship with thousands of stangers, many intoxicated, potentially out of the US, where they are many small areas you can't get to quickly is the place to allow "independance" of kids easily through preteen age IMO. It doesn't matter the exposure before, fact is that is a large, uncontrolled environment not worth the risk or potential negative exposure. I know from experience you can have a well adjusted, responsible, independent young adult without doing that.

[Saint Greg]

Where I live children under 17 aren't supposed to be outside during the hours of 10pm-5am Sun-Thu...Curfew starts at midnight on Fri-Sat. They aren't allowed to drive after 11pm statewide.

[Strophic]

Crazy how many people in this thread think that irresponsible kids were invented in the year 2000. Does no one stop to consider that kids have always been doing dumb things, it is just that there hasn't always been a camera in every pocket to record them, nor a worldwide video-upload website to share them?

 

Kids have been getting themselves injured or killed with their shenanigans for the entirety of human history. Except when many of you were kids, you wouldn't only know about it if A) It happened in your town or B) It made national news.

 

"Kids these days" are just fine. At least—not any less fine than they've always been.

[Moonarino]

Strophic: Not many (even here) will argue that "kids have always been doing dumb things", but I'll disagree that it isn't getting worse. I'll even call it "immorality creep" -- but using the construct of "morality" very loosely, i.e., don't anybody go all literal on me. Not trying to be sanctimonious -- I raised two kids, both of whom developed their own highly personalized self-discipline problems, and I was once a kid myself, and I grew up with brothers, a couple dozen close cousins and hundreds of class/church/funmates. There wasn't a perfect kid in the whole bunch. I'm just saying, nobody can convince me that the problem of self-discipline (and dirth of good sense) isn't growing at least a little more widespread and more extreme than it used to be. And I won't draw any line at the year 2000, because I know a heckuva lot of very sensible and responsible millennials (etc), people I'm proud to call friends (and relatives). I'll just refer back to the "creep" on which I opined up front. And I might also opine that the "creep" is accelerating. (Stressing "opinion", just my two cents.)