First HAL - meh

[jaxonboy]

One of the people I'm travelling with to the Panama Canal in Sept/Oct. has scent allergies and has specified an allergy to paint and other such products. Others may have similar reactions to paint and can make a note of it before boarding.

Get her a proper respirator that will filter it out. This is not the ship's problem.

[kazu]

Of course some passengers will have some exposure to the fumes. A passenger might be on the promenade at any time. Consideration of the passengers should still be a factor, though, and the timing of this particular work carefully supervised, so that it's done when it will probably impact the fewest passengers. Maybe there's an "art" to it, in some degree. I'm not saying it's easy, but my impression is that perhaps not all supervisors are actively engaged in the timing.

 

So how do you pull this off - impacting the fewest passengers? And, even if you impact the fewest some will still be impacted. When they do the balconies, it takes most of the day. The promenade takes a long time to do as well. So, how do you avoid impacting people?

 

I think that is an overly high expectation. JMO though and my experience.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

So how do you pull this off - impacting the fewest passengers? And, even if you impact the fewest some will still be impacted. When they do the balconies, it takes most of the day. The promenade takes a long time to do as well. So, how do you avoid impacting people?

 

I think that is an overly high expectation. JMO though and my experience.

 

It seems to be pulled off to some extent already. For example, I haven't noticed painting during the charity walk. Then, perhaps someone experienced with the itinerary makes a judgement call and blocks out hours when the promenade normally has the most passengers (balcony use may be too unpredictable). In my experience the painting crew is not on the promenade most of the day (I take frequent walks). Then, perhaps you have the painters call the supervisor if there are a certain number of people in the planned painting spot but not in another spot downwind/astern. Etc.?

 

One can think critically about this without having "overly high expectations". I might add, your reply seems to imply that no action needs to be considered because "some will still be impacted". I wouldn't want to board a ship on which that outlook is common among the staff.

[kazu]

It seems to be pulled off to some extent already. For example, I haven't noticed painting during the charity walk. Then, perhaps someone experienced with the itinerary makes a judgement call and blocks out hours when the promenade normally has the most passengers (balcony use may be too unpredictable). In my experience the painting crew is not on the promenade most of the day (I take frequent walks). Then, perhaps you have the painters call the supervisor if there are a certain number of people in the planned painting spot but not in another spot downwind/astern. Etc.?

 

One can think critically about this without having "overly high expectations". I might add, your reply seems to imply that no action needs to be considered because "some will still be impacted". I wouldn't want to board a ship on which that outlook is common among the staff.

 

Please, don't put words in my mouth.

 

I am simply pointing out that this is basically a long job and it is impossible to not impact passengers on the day it is done. It's pretty simple.

 

All 7 day cruises are not affected by this. It's just a few. Same with balcony work. When you are on for longer cruises - like 30 days, you will see it happen. It's a given. The ships are subject to salt water and have to be cared for.

 

I'm not saying we are thrilled - but it is going to be done and has to be done.

[rachelfran]

I understand that ship maintenance can but a bad taste, or smell, on the cruise experience, but it has to be done. And bearing that in mind how should HAL have handled the painting/varnishing? It's needed ship maintenance that cannot be done while in port, so it has to be done on a sea day. I understand it's disruptive and disappointing, not only to people who have cabins along the promenade deck, but also to those wanting to use the promenade deck. What could have happened to make the situation acceptable, with the understanding that the work must be done during daylight hours on this cruise?

 

 

 

How bout don't charge a pretty premium for lanai cabins and then do work on the only sea day when you might choose to use the private lounge chairs provided. Or better, insulate the lanai cabins from the smell and fumes. Or warn the folks in the cabin. I received no notification in advance or even during. Provide a free thermal pass for the day to those affected so they have somewhere else pleasant to go. Make an effort.

 

 

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[rachelfran]

Ships have to be maintained. We always get a notice on our cruises that the balconies will be done on x day and they may have to walk through our cabin and the balcony will not be useable that day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We had no notice

 

 

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[rachelfran]

How bout don't charge a pretty premium for lanai cabins and then do work on the only sea day when you might choose to use the private lounge chairs provided. Or better, insulate the lanai cabins from the smell and fumes. Or warn the folks in the cabin. I received no notification in advance or even during. Provide a free thermal pass for the day to those affected so they have somewhere else pleasant to go. Make an effort.

 

 

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Fans on deck to blow the fumes out away from cabins would help too

 

 

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[Dunelm]

Sorry if your cruise was spoiled. We were in a Neptune Suite recently, and a similar thing happened when our verandah was painted. It was no big deal for us, but we all react differently. Personally, I am always glad for any kind of cleaning and for the people who do it. To me, any cleaning is such a thankless job because it is never finished--especially at sea.

[kazu]

We had no notice

 

 

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Of course not.

 

You had a Lanai, correct - so basically a OV with access to the promenade with a door that opens and chairs.

 

A balcony is private space, the promenade is not.

 

But, I would bet dollars to donuts that there was a notice in the When and Where that they would be doing work. Perhaps not on your cruise since it may vary from ship to ship but we always had it.

[TAD2005]

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Ships need constant maintenance to stay ship-shape. They can't do this work once every 2 years while in dry-dock. There WILL be constant painting, sanding, wire-brushing of everything. People are asking that they do this maintenance during dead hours. Can you paint your house in the dead of night ? All ships need constant maintenance. The old Navy saying "If it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it" holds true on cruise ships too. If cruise lines didn't do constant maintenance on their ships, people would be griping about the terrible condition of the ship they were on. If they do the constant maintenance, the same people will complain that the maintenance should be done at some other time, "when I'm not onboard". You can't win this argument. Maintenance must be done, and most of it involves paint. And marine paint is not the latex stuff you use at home. It must withstand crashing waves, salt water and air, constant foot traffic, etc. If you have a serious health problem with the odours of marine paint, maybe cruising is not for you.

[Copper10-8]

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Ships need constant maintenance to stay ship-shape. They can't do this work once every 2 years while in dry-dock. There WILL be constant painting, sanding, wire-brushing of everything. People are asking that they do this maintenance during dead hours. Can you paint your house in the dead of night ? All ships need constant maintenance. The old Navy saying "If it moves, salute it, if it doesn't move, paint it" holds true on cruise ships too. If cruise lines didn't do constant maintenance on their ships, people would be griping about the terrible condition of the ship they were on. If they do the constant maintenance, the same people will complain that the maintenance should be done at some other time, "when I'm not onboard". You can't win this argument. Maintenance must be done, and most of it involves paint. And marine paint is not the latex stuff you use at home. It must withstand crashing waves, salt water and air, constant foot traffic, etc. If you have a serious health problem with the odours of marine paint, maybe cruising is not for you.

 

Bravo Zulu! :)

[igraf]

Cities of course do allow painting in general, so I suspect that the ships are using solvents that are banned ashore. More the reason to be concerned about breathing the fumes.

 

igraf

 

 

They sure do! Between a rock and a hard place. Varnishing/painting can only be done at sea since most ports no longer allow it, especially in Alaska. Doing it results in complaints; not doing it results in complaints; what is a mother to do :eek:

[Copper10-8]

Cities of course do allow painting in general, so I suspect that the ships are using solvents that are banned ashore. More the reason to be concerned about breathing the fumes.

 

igraf

 

It's never safe to assume/suspect without knowing the facts............

[joepeka]

It's never safe to assume/suspect without knowing the facts............

Especially when assuming the scheduling of this kind of work could be more judicious, without knowing much about the internal processes and procedures (including work schedules) of a large cruise ship. ;)

[LMaxwell]

There's really no way to defend the absence of refined, efficient staff service due to staff level cutbacks so everyone has become a freshly minted expert on ship maintenance and are explaining 12 ways to Sunday about varnishing to OP, as if they were unable to understand prior. Isn't the more important focus here on the experience a paying guest receives versus the one that the company markets? I'd certainly consider HAL a premium or upmarket line; it is not a boutique line, or a high end exclusive line, but it is marketed as a few cuts above; similar to how Princess and Celebrity is marketed, at a more affluent and well traveled guest. The client experience in regards to staff level is becoming a sore topic on many forums.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Especially when assuming the scheduling of this kind of work could be more judicious, without knowing much about the internal processes and procedures (including work schedules) of a large cruise ship. ;)

 

It would be great if someone who does "know much about the internal processes and procedures" in this matter, for at least one ship, would shed more light on the matter.

 

It seems to me that there are a couple of general outlooks on this matter:

1) It is possible that exposure of passengers to the fumes could be minimized (not eliminated, which is a spin which apparently seems useful to a minority of those take outlook #2).

2) It is not possible. The work must be done (I think anyone taking outlook #1 realizes this, but it seems useful to suggest that they do not).

 

I hate to add fuel to the flames, but a few of the replies from the #2 camp seem to create a straw man that has an extreme position not actually found in the thread.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

It would be great if someone who does in fact "know much about the internal processes and procedures" in this matter, for at least one ship, would shed more light on the matter.

 

.........

 

Copper 10-8, who has already posted several times in this thread, does in fact "know much about the internal processes and procedures" in this matter.

[Dunelm]

These days, I tend to get tired of all the complaining. If we are on a cruise, we are being pampered despite the apparent cutbacks. Now, if I was living in Syria or some other parts of the world I think I might complain. In fact, I think I would be screaming. There is too much negativism in our spoiled lives. I am sorry if I am being offensive to some, but I have just met a woman that has been working with refugees on the Syrian border, and I am a tad testy. Sorry!

[joepeka]

It would be great if someone who does "know much about the internal processes and procedures" in this matter, for at least one ship, would shed more light on the matter.

 

It seems to me that there are a couple of general outlooks on this matter:

1) It is possible that exposure of passengers to the fumes could be minimized (not eliminated, which is a spin which apparently seems useful to a minority of those take outlook #2).

2) It is not possible. The work must be done (I think anyone taking outlook #1 realizes this, but it seems useful to suggest that they do not).

 

I hate to add fuel to the flames, but a few of the replies from the #2 camp seem to create a straw man that has an extreme position not actually found in the thread.

I am guessing you missed the posts from Copper 10-8 who is indeed in a position to know and has shed light on the matter.

[igraf]

Don't assume that I am not knowledgeable in this subject. I used to work as a Materials & Processes engineer.

 

Large ships are built and painted in the San Diego area on a regular basis. Right next to residential neighborhoods. So why is refinishing the promenade deck forbidden? Most likely because doing it in international waters avoids having to comply with any regulations.

 

Something like this:

 

https://www.nassco.com/purchasing/environmental/4_Painting/4_%20Env%20Req%20for%20Applying%20Paint%20and%20Coatings.pdf

 

In other words, applying new ship coatings is regulated but not forbidden.

 

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

It's never safe to assume/suspect without knowing the facts............

Edited August 11, 2017 by igraf

[rachelfran]

Many cruise lines carry spare balcony and promenade railings below decks. When it comes time to re- varnish the ones on deck, they are unbolted and taken to the Bosuns Store and replaced by the nicely varnished spares.

 

The old railings are sanded and varnished below decks.

 

That way the sanding noise, sawdust, and the varnish smells never affect the passengers.

 

HAL, unfortunately does not do that.

 

 

 

Smart.

Who does this?

 

 

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[kazu]

Don't assume that I am not knowledgeable in this subject. I used to work as a Materials & Processes engineer.

 

Large ships are built and painted in the San Diego area on a regular basis. Right next to residential neighborhoods. So why is refinishing the promenade deck forbidden? Most likely because doing it in international waters avoids having to comply with any regulations.

 

Something like this:

 

https://www.nassco.com/purchasing/environmental/4_Painting/4_%20Env%20Req%20for%20Applying%20Paint%20and%20Coatings.pdf

 

In other words, applying new ship coatings is regulated but not forbidden.

 

 

igraf

 

 

Always appreciate your posts.

 

I recall them doing some of that in one of our ports (I think it was a turnaround port). But, sorry I can't remember which one it was. I remember the letter though and deciding to explore because of it. It might have been Tilbury but I don't want to swear to that.

 

the others, IIRC were done at sea. Keeping in mind of course, that some crew get a little break in ports if they are lucky. They work 24/7 so any breaks are nice for them. They do a lot of maintenance in ports - painting the hull, window cleaning, etc.

 

Maintenance is on going.

[Cruise_More_Often]

Many cruise lines carry spare balcony and promenade railings below decks. When it comes time to re- varnish the ones on deck, they are unbolted and taken to the Bosuns Store and replaced by the nicely varnished spares.

The old railings are sanded and varnished below decks.

That way the sanding noise, sawdust, and the varnish smells never affect the passengers.

HAL, unfortunately does not do that.

 

Smart.

Who does this?

 

 

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NCL took our stern balcony railing off during one of our cruises and brought it back refinished a few days later. It made for some weird photographs with that missing railing.

[SetAnOpenCourse]

Many cruise lines carry spare balcony and promenade railings below decks. When it comes time to re- varnish the ones on deck, they are unbolted and taken to the Bosuns Store and replaced by the nicely varnished spares.

The old railings are sanded and varnished below decks.

That way the sanding noise, sawdust, and the varnish smells never affect the passengers.

HAL, unfortunately does not do that.

 

That's a little more labor but may give someone a job, and I'm sure they have the right equipment (respirator etc.). I agree, it's unfortunate the same is not done on HAL ships, keeping in mind that HAL ships may not be built to allow it. That's okay though - I can grin and bear it🙂.

[rachelfran]

Definitely our first and last HAL experience.. these two issues were just the tip of the iceberg but after waiting 45 min for our first course at Pinnacle and a lobster bisque & salad that was inedible and a raw steak and no acknowledgement of the uneaten food on our plates -- we're done.

 

 

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