Is Biz Class Worth It?

[celmed]

We are flying San Diego to Rome -- a long day. Delta has good connections on their R/T Business Elite at $2800 per (most others are $7300, for comparison). The same flights on coach are about $1100.

Has anyone flown Delta's Business Elite? Is the extra space/service significant or would we do better to save our money and suffer through the coach flights? The domestic flights to gateway are in First.

I've been to Europe many times but my husband hasn't. We are fairly large people (6'1 and 5'10), so I fear he will be horribly uncomfortable for that long in coach.

Thanks for your insight!

[LHT28]

I would go for the Biz class!

Nothing worse than a cranky hubby on vacation! ;)

[JoanieBlon]

We are flying San Diego to Rome -- a long day. Delta has good connections on their R/T Business Elite at $2800 per (most others are $7300, for comparison). The same flights on coach are about $1100.

Has anyone flown Delta's Business Elite? Is the extra space/service significant or would we do better to save our money and suffer through the coach flights? The domestic flights to gateway are in First.

I've been to Europe many times but my husband hasn't. We are fairly large people (6'1 and 5'10), so I fear he will be horribly uncomfortable for that long in coach.

Thanks for your insight!

 

Per seatguru.com, it appears that your Delta Business Elite Class seats should be as follows (WOW!):

 

BusinessElite: 60.0" pitch 18.5" width 36 seats with electric lumbar support, leg/foot rests

 

The regular coach seats have just 31" pitch and are 18" wide. For those prices, I'd GO for Business Elite! My husband is 6'4" with LONG legs and I know how uncomfortable he is in Delta coach ~ although that's the way we fly most of the time.

 

We're flying Tampa to NYC on Song Coach. From JFK to Heathwick and then on to Athens for our cruise with the stops (2 nights in London and 2 nights in Athens) primarily so he can stretch his legs and walk around a bit and take a break from flying. We opted for British Airway's World Traveler Plus category for the NYC-London portion. Per seatguru.com, this category has:

 

World Traveler Plus:

38.0" pitch 18.5" width 30 seats with 2 more inches of recline than standard

 

Not nearly as much pitch as yours, but we are happy with the flight times and prices. We are paying $178 RT each Tampa/JFK non-stop on Song in coach and $1,267.75 on British Airways which is RT JFK/Heathrow World Traveller Plus Class, Heathrow/Athens non-stop in coach, and Istanbul/Heathrow non-stop in coach. I thought the price was very fair considering the stopovers and one-way connections. I booked the flights myself as I just have never used travels agents.

 

Our cruise is on the NCL Jewel departing Athens on Sep-27-06 and ending in Istanbul on Oct-09-06. I can hardly wait!

[TexasFyre]

We flew business class to Rome from Cinncinatti and it was like First class on a domestic flight! Although we didn't fly Delta, it was American, it was well worth it. The seats were large, the service was great, and the leg room was perfect! (I am 5'10") My fear of flying over seas, well, flying period, was forgotten on this flight. My return flight to the states was upgraded, and it was even better.

[DanJ]

If you can get international business class for that, definitely go for it, especially for a transcontinental followed by transatlantic. International business is much nicer than domestic first class. Domestic first class is basically what was described as above for the World Traveller Plus. A couple extra inches of leg room is nice, but I wouldn't pay several times the coach cost for it. Business elite though, at that price for that long, definitely. I'm assuming you are connecting in Atlanta from San Diego. Maybe you'll even luck out and get an international configuration for that leg.

[celmed]

JoanieBlon, I think you will be very happy with BA's Plus option. I have a large group of British and Irish friends who travel the Pond frequently and they rave about Plus. They say the extra room is worth it, and they feel that the FAs give them a little more attention than the regular coach passengers. BA has better service in coach than the US airlines anyway IMHO. I think they still serve free alcohol, for example. And what a great rate you got! Good for you!

 

DanJ, the connection outbound is through Cincy on a 757 then a 767-300 to Rome. Coming back, we're on a 767-300 to JFK, then an MD-80 to ATL, then a 757 back to SAN. Yeah, two stops on the way back but I figure an extra flight in First with Crown Room privileges while we wait shouldn't be too bad (ha). And the flight times are excellent.

 

Thanks for your encouragement! I'm gulping hard at spending that much $$$!

[PoohUnderstands]

I am on the other side. Of course I am known as Mrs. Squeaky!

However, to spend a total of $2800 for alittle more comfort for 8 hours. I wouldn't spend it. We are flying from FLL to BCN through Newark next year and are paying only $750pp. When I picked seats, I picked two aisle seats in the same row. That way we can stretch our legs, but better yet, get up frequently and just stand and stretch. Oh, true, I am only 5'8' and my husband is just alittle over 6', but again, $2800 for 8 hours. I would spend it only if you have money to burn for it, because the price for Bus. Class is definitely a good one.

 

Pooh

 

Pooh

[celmed]

PoohUnderstands, point well taken. But remember, I'm flying all the way from the U.S. west coast (4.5 hours to Cincy plus 9 hours to Rome) and $2800 is for round-trip. So I'm looking at 27 hours total in the air. The value starts to rise a little when you consider it that way! But you're right, it is a lot of money.

[Cruiser_Guy]

I would do it in a heart beat!!!!!! Do it before the price rises!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nparmelee]

We are doing biz class for our Reno to Rome and Istanbul to Reno flights next June. For us the extra space is worth it, that's a lot of hours in the air, we have 14-15 on the way out and 19 on the way home plus time in the airports in between. Glad I did it when I did, pricing our flights now is more than double what we paid, probably because we have one connection on the way there and 2 on the way home, change that to 2 on the way there and the price drops a bit. Any time we have a flight more than 4 hours, we try to upgrade with FF miles if we have them. It makes a difference to us.

[rwdtgb]

WE fly Delta business class to Italy a couple of times a year. The seats are very comfortable although they don't recline all the way they do recline pretty far and you can sleep very well. The service is very good and as far as airline food we think it is very good.The wine selection is also very good.

 

The Delta overseas business class is 100% better than domestic first class as well as most domestic carriers first/overseas flights.

 

Tom

[nho9504]

Also if you have AA miles (50K per person to upgrade, + $500 bucks), it may be cheaper to fly AA using miles plus bucks to upgrade. AA allows you to upgrade from even the lowest coach fare bucket (Q or N) to Biz class. It used to be only miles, but now they want $ as well. :-(

 

The best thing is you can upgrade only one leg in stead of round trip. And yes, the domestic segment would be first class as domestic flights are only 2 classes, instead of 3 classes on international routes.

[greatam]

Also if you have AA miles (50K per person to upgrade, + $500 bucks), it may be cheaper to fly AA using miles plus bucks to upgrade. AA allows you to upgrade from even the lowest coach fare bucket (Q or N) to Biz class. It used to be only miles, but now they want $ as well. :-(

 

The best thing is you can upgrade only one leg in stead of round trip. And yes, the domestic segment would be first class as domestic flights are only 2 classes, instead of 3 classes on international routes.

 

Sorry, you cannot upgrade an international flight to Europe, South America or Asia in Q. Only elites were (are?) allowed to upgrade with money and miles from the deeply discounted fares. From AA Advantage:

 

Upgrade awards are only valid on individual published-fare tickets and are subject to capacity controls.

Fares booked in I or O, or fares booked in Q between North America and Asia, Europe, India or South America are not upgradable

 

Your chances of upgrading with miles and money on heavily traveled routes (HNL and Europe, during peak times), without elite status, are not good. Too many elites with VIP's or lots of miles wanting those seats, espcially during peak periods.

 

And there are plenty of 3 class domestic flights. Just flew LAX/JFK, AA flight #34-767-200. A lot of the JFK and MIA flights from the West Coast (LAX and SFO) are on three class aircraft. So sorry, no first class a lot of the time. Do NOT waste miles upgrading on a 757 or 737. AA stickers, maybe. Miles, NEVER

[celmed]

Greatam,

What is your reasoning for advising not to waste a miles upgrade on a 757 or 737? I think the 757 has the most uncomfortable coach section of any aircraft, and would find that a worthy upgrade if I was flying far enough. In fact, I think any miles upgrade is worth it if you are flying far enough (transcontinental, for example) regardless of aircraft type.

Just curious about your thoughts on this. Thanks.

[greatam]

Greatam,

What is your reasoning for advising not to waste a miles upgrade on a 757 or 737? I think the 757 has the most uncomfortable coach section of any aircraft, and would find that a worthy upgrade if I was flying far enough. In fact, I think any miles upgrade is worth it if you are flying far enough (transcontinental, for example) regardless of aircraft type.

Just curious about your thoughts on this. Thanks.

 

I fly mostly AA so that is the basis of my opinion. And due to my status, I get free upgrades on ALL domestic flights, if the space is available. So I fly F a lot. Not much different than coach, IMHO. Seats 10 A & F are my favorites on a 757. Lots of leg room-there are some drawbacks, but the leg room is great. 737-I have access to the bulhead and exit seats. But if you can't get those, row 8 is standard coach seating, but without a lot of the drawbacks of rows 9, 10, 11.

 

If you have NO other use for your miles, I suppose a mileage upgrade is OK. BUT think about the value of your miles. You either flew or spent to get them-maximize the use of them to get value.

 

15,000 miles for a one way upgrade on a 737/757 computes to $300.00. $600.00 RT is a heck of a lot of money for a couple of drinks and MAYBE a meal. You will definitely have a "snack" for free, but you may get a meal. The seat pitch is a grand total of 8" difference. No big deal. Yes, the seats are wider, but not for my $300.00 or $600.00. I use miles for upgrades to international first or business or to get a ticket at the last minute (my emergency fund miles). Myself, as well as a lot of other FF, think a miles upgrade on a 737 or 757 is a VERY poor use of miles.

 

Lots of times, you can BUY a first class ticket for the price of original ticket + value of miles. Delta has transcon, F tickets for $1000.00. So does America West, but they are not running as many F class specials since the merger as they used to. And America West has F class upgrades for $50.00 per 500 miles at checkin, if there is availability.

 

If you don't travel frequently and really, really want to upgrade on a 757 or 737, do it. But not with my miles. LOL

[Desert Cruisers]

We have flown Delta's Business Elite (since its exception) as well as business class on other airlines. We recently flew Business Elite to Milan and back from Rome. Here are our thoughts:

 

We truly appreciate the space and seats in business class flying for long periods. It is not just the leg room. If you get the middle two seats in Business Elite (configuration is 2-2-2), you can get up at any time without inconveniencing your seatmate. It is easier to get some sleep in these seats. Additionally, the service and attention is better partially due to the ratio of flight attendants to passengers. The food is better and the liquor is complimentary, but honestly, Delta is cutting costs in this area. Finally, check-in lines are quicker and at some airports (e.g., LAX), there is an expedited security line for first/business class passengers.

 

As for the seats, the Business Elite seats were cutting edge when introduced but have definitely fallen behind the flat seats offered by British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, etc. They are better than the current American Airlines business class seat although American is upgrading the business class cabin.

 

For the price quoted, Business Elite is a good alternative to a cramped coach flight. If you will be better rested and ready to go upon landing, go for it! We live on the West Coast and know how long it takes to get to Europe.

[CruisinMatt]

Since we're on the topic, I use http://www.flatseats.com when pricing/booking business class airfares.

[celmed]

Greatam, but remember that as someone with miles status you have more flexibility in selecting your coach seats. The rest of us get what we can, but most airlines block the choice coach seats for choice customers like you.

Besides, saving my miles for an upgrade is a joke. I got my SAN-FCO biz class for $2800 because using miles would have cost me $2100 plus the miles. So I'd rather use my miles to upgrade domestic flights (easier to do because there are more flights/seats) and just pay for intl.

BTW, I upgraded to F on AA last year for BOS-SAN on a 737. We got a full steak dinner served in courses, and everything was fantastic. Didn't miss those 15,000 miles one bit! :)

[celmed]

Greatam, also if you look on Seatguru.com you will see where he says most people agree that upgrading on a 757 is worthwhile because the coach seats are so uncomfortable. So some people do think it is a VERY good use of miles!

[greatam]

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[greatam]

Greatam, but remember that as someone with miles status you have more flexibility in selecting your coach seats. The rest of us get what we can, but most airlines block the choice coach seats for choice customers like you.

Besides, saving my miles for an upgrade is a joke. I got my SAN-FCO biz class for $2800 because using miles would have cost me $2100 plus the miles. So I'd rather use my miles to upgrade domestic flights (easier to do because there are more flights/seats) and just pay for intl.

BTW, I upgraded to F on AA last year for BOS-SAN on a 737. We got a full steak dinner served in courses, and everything was fantastic. Didn't miss those 15,000 miles one bit! :)

 

I am assuming the $2100.00 was for the discount tickets with the AA copay. You are correct-not good value for miles. And with all the international business class fares on sale so frequently, you sometimes can purchase cheaper than upgrade (and then you get all those lovely miles to boot).

 

I am not criticizing your use of miles for upgrades on AA's crappy little planes.

 

You asked MY justification for not using miles to upgrade and I gave you my reasons. That said, I just got back yesterday from Shannon, Ireland. AA is running a 757 (two class) as a one class plane internationally. So elites (and anyone really who can find availability) can book the F seats. Not F service, just F seats. I was in seat 1F. I LIKE bulkhead seats- don't care what seatguru.com says. Got to Boston and airport was closed. My LAX flight was cancelled-763 nonstop, business class upgrade.

 

AA rebooked me on the 6:10PM flight, 757 equipment. The plane was oversold, due to the cancellation. No upgrades available, but I was lucky enough to snag row 17A, exit. Since the plane was in the air approx the same amount of time (8 hours from Shannon, 7 hours to LAX), I really thought about your situation. Personally, I would not have used miles (I would have used stickers, though, as those are free) to upgrade that flight, even if an upgrade was available. Those F seats just aren't that much better, IMHO. Also, I flew back from Shannon in row 27, even though I was booked into 2F. Plane was lightly loaded, so I slept stretched out in the empty row with the armrests up. Very pleasant flight.

 

So before you use up your miles for transcon upgrades, check the availability. Use this tool: http://flyaow.com/classavailability.htm. Once you learn how to use it, it should work for most leisure travel. You may not have to "spend" your miles if the plane is lightly loaded. If you need further info, feel free to email-greatam@earthlink.net

[greatam]

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[nho9504]

If you can find an empty row in the middle at the back, it always beat the J class seat unless you are in the Flagship F.

 

The tool you posted does not work on our Hawaii trip next May. It refuses to pull up the UAL direct flight ORD to HNL on May 23, though it pulls up the return on May 28.

 

I plan to use miles to upgrade to F seats.