Casual dinner attire... first time cruiser.

[summersigh]

Do you write technical manuals?

:D I think it's just to make the rest of us think those comments are more important than ours :D

[declansdad]

Oh -so wrong.

 

Decorum:

1. dignified propriety of behavior, speech, dress, etc.

2. the quality or state of being decorous, or exhibiting such dignified propriety; orderliness; regularity.

3. Usually, decorums. an observance or requirement of polite society.

 

 

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Decorum has nothing to do with how you are dressed.

[Flatbush Flyer]

Decorum has nothing to do with how you are dressed.

 

 

 

You may want to do a bit of research. For example, you might start with a historical U.S. perspective:

Decorum: A Practical Treatise on Etiquette and Dress of the Best American Society. by John A. Ruth (1878)

 

Or for something more modern (albeit related to decorum in a courtroom):

https://www.law.ua.edu/pubs/jlp_files/issues_files/vol12/vol12art13.pdf

 

Don't make me dig out "Caesar's Gallic Wars" and discuss "decorus."

 

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Edited November 5, 2017 by Flatbush Flyer

[Kittybork]

Decorum would include proper dress.

[declansdad]

Decorum would include proper dress.

 

 

What is proper dress?

[jsglow]

I'm going to specifically avoid the decorum discussion.

 

On casual night I will most typically wear a nice polo and either dress shorts or casual slacks. Probably go with a pair of docksiders for shoes. On elegant night, I always wear a jacket either with or without a tie. On casual night, I'm pretty close to the median. On elegant, probably a tad more formal than some. Hope that helps.

 

One other thought. They are way more forgiving on the first night as some folks luggage won't have arrived.

[jayscore]

I'm not going to debate on "proper" dress for the first dinner service,

All I have to say is many have "the clothes on their back" that first night's dinner in the MDR.

That being said, once their luggage is delivered, I think one should conform to what is allowed for dinner.

No more, no less, if you are comfortable with your dress. ;)

[chrismch]

I'm going to specifically avoid the decorum discussion.

 

On casual night I will most typically wear a nice polo and either dress shorts

How can you ever consider "shorts" as something dressy? Maybe on the tennis court or sailing on a yacht.

 

If you go to a restaurant with linen tablecloths, napkins and fine china and the waiters are dressed more formally than you, there's something wrong with that picture IMHO

[Txcroozer]

On casual night Carnival no longer has linen tablecloths and fine china

 

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[bUU]

Do you write technical manuals?

Do you derail threads for a living?

[bUU]

What is proper dress?

What your host decides it is. The cruise ship expresses this decision in their written dress code, including its lack of specificity, and in how they choose to enforce - or not enforce - it.

[Kittybork]

What is proper dress?

 

Proper dress varies depending on the occasion. A teacher's proper dress is not the same as a roofer's proper dress.

 

Proper dress at the beach differs greatly from proper dress at a banquet.

[StolidCruiser]

Yet I see people complaining that the maître d' isn't enforcing the dress code the way some people would want them to.

 

"Hmmmm."

 

Yet, the complaints clearly show that sometimes "accordingly" is what you mean by it, here; sometimes it is not. And despite over a decade of such complaints, the cruise lines still elect to leave the matter open to the discretion of each maître d' making the decision in the moment.

 

"Hmmmm."

 

That may be the crux of the matter: Is the cruise line's primary goal "decorum" or "hospitality"?

 

"Hmmmm."

 

Hmmmm all you want. It indicates a weak small-minded retort when you don't know first-hand facts.

 

Where do you see these complaints on HAL dress code and it's enforcement? I don't see them nor hear them when on board.

 

If you are talking about dress code on Carnival (or in general), leaving the decision to act or not act speaks to the decorum (yes, decorum...for the other poster who says it doesn't apply - consult a dictionary, like learning the definition of accordingly so you be a better language coroner) of the guest. A proper guest doesn't make his host scold them like a petulant child.

 

The cruiselines goal is to provide the offered experience to the best of it's ability in accordance with it's policies, procedures and promotions.

 

Put quotes around that.

[tallnthensome]

How can you ever consider "shorts" as something dressy? Maybe on the tennis court or sailing on a yacht.

 

If you go to a restaurant with linen tablecloths, napkins and fine china and the waiters are dressed more formally than you, there's something wrong with that picture IMHO

I always use that comparison as well. When you can't dress at least as nice as your waiters then go to the buffet. Show a little respect for you waitstaff and fellow passengers and follow the dress code. I can imagine the thoughts of a waiter having to serve some slovenly dressed passenger in his jeans and Harley Davidson t-shirt from 1997. People always make excuses to dress like poor slobs in the MDR .....

[bUU]

Hmmmm all you want. It indicates a weak small-minded retort when you don't know first-hand facts.

So basically your response to the substantive points made is to post a petty personal attack. Thanks for making your position clear.

 

Show a little respect for you waitstaff and fellow passengers and follow the dress code.

Showing respect for one's fellow passenger is not just something other people need to do. It is not "respecting your fellow passengers" if you are disparaging your fellow passenger due to disagreeing with what that other passenger decided was proper based on that other passenger's interpretation of the requirements. Expecting other passengers to show respect in the way you want but not showing respect to them in return is hypocrisy.

[Kittybork]

So basically your response to the substantive points made is to post a petty personal attack. Thanks for making your position clear.

 

I didn't see a substantive post with all of the "hummmmm" silliness.

[bUU]

I didn't see a substantive post with all of the "hummmmm" silliness.

Then please let me reiterate it to make the substantive content clearer:

 

The poster implied that the maître d' would have diners change if they wore something that the poster considered improper. My response pointed out that people complain that they have seen diners seated and served even though they're wearing what they considered improper.

 

The poster implied that the cruise lines being discussed expect guests to comply with the poster's interpretation of the cruise line's dress code. My response pointed out that for well over a decade people have been complaining that the opposite is true.

 

The poster implied that decorum was important. My response pointed out that hospitality is important.

[declansdad]

My comments about the dress doesn't equate to decorum stem from a veiled comment that Carnival doesn't consider it important in the same manner as other cruise lines. In my mind this as just another way of taking a shot at the low standards of Carnival and the people who cruise with Carnival.

 

I never once said people should flaunt the dress code, I just don't think you need to be dressed in elegant attire to have decorum. Also, if you don't think men's shorts can be dressy, talk to someone from Bermuda.

[bUU]

My comments about the dress doesn't equate to decorum stem from a veiled comment that Carnival doesn't consider it important in the same manner as other cruise lines. In my mind this as just another way of taking a shot at the low standards of Carnival and the people who cruise with Carnival.

Hmmm... that's a good point I didn't consider.

 

I never once said people should flaunt the dress code, I just don't think you need to be dressed in elegant attire to have decorum.

That's a very common rhetorical tactic used by those who are upset that the dress code as it is implemented by the cruise line isn't as upscale as they want it to be: They overstate the extent of, and typical manner of, violations of the dress code, making it seem like there are violators everywhere you look, and they're all wearing sweaty gym attire. Perhaps they feel that they need to exaggerate in order to make their disappointment sound like something more critical than that.

 

Also, if you don't think men's shorts can be dressy, talk to someone from Bermuda.

Indeed.

[Flatbush Flyer]

 

The poster implied that decorum was important. My response pointed out that hospitality is important.

 

 

And herein lies the crux of the issue.

Hospitality implies accommodation of passenger needs and desires, which is virtually impossible on a discount cruise line serving thousands of extremely diverse (economically/culturally) passengers on any one of their ships.

In their quest for the almighty dollar by trying (and failing) to make everyone happy, Carnival (and others like RCI and NCL) publish rules that address/accommodate the desire of one group of their passengers for decorum and civilized dress/behavior and then discard those same rules to accommodate the other end of the passenger spectrum.

For those folks who want the decorum rules to mean something (including not having to sit across an MDR [or even buffet] table from someone in a "wife beater" tee shirt and backwards turned baseball cap [with sales stickers intact]), the choice is simple:

Move up to the premium/luxury cruise segment where the passenger base is considerably more homogeneous in their travel preferences and civilized behavior.

 

 

 

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[fair-winds39]

Am I correct in assuming that you can't wear a t-shirt and jeans to the MDR for dinner on any night?

 

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This is on the Carnival website regarding the MDR Dress Code. I guess it's how you define "Dress Code." DH usually wears dockers or casual pants on most nights, with a casual collared shirt or nice polo, and on Elegant nights a suit & tie or sport coat. To each his own I suppose. Today it's "wear what you want".

 

Main Dining Room(s)

Following is the dress code in the Main Dining Room(s) for both men and women and pertains to children as well:

Cruise Casual Dress Code

• Men: sport slacks, khakis, Jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long) and collared polo shirts
  
• Women: summer dresses, casual skirts, pants, capris, dress shorts, Jeans (no cut-offs) blouses and tops
  
• Not permitted: Cut-off Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, tee-shirts, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
  

Cruise Elegant Dress Code

• Men: dress slacks, dress shirts, and we also suggest a sport coat; men may also wish to wear a suit and tie or tuxedo
  
• Women: Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; ladies may also wish to wear an evening gown
  
• Not permitted: Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, shorts, tee-shirts, sportswear, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
  

[Flatbush Flyer]

This is on the Carnival website regarding the MDR Dress Code. I guess it's how you define "Dress Code." DH usually wears dockers or casual pants on most nights, with a casual collared shirt or nice polo, and on Elegant nights a suit & tie or sport coat. To each his own I suppose. Today it's "wear what you want".

 

 

 

Main Dining Room(s)

 

Following is the dress code in the Main Dining Room(s) for both men and women and pertains to children as well:

 

Cruise Casual Dress Code

 

• 
   
  
• Men: sport slacks, khakis, Jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long) and collared polo shirts
   
  
• Women: summer dresses, casual skirts, pants, capris, dress shorts, Jeans (no cut-offs) blouses and tops
   
  
• Not permitted: Cut-off Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, tee-shirts, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
   
  

Cruise Elegant Dress Code

 

• 
   
  
• Men: dress slacks, dress shirts, and we also suggest a sport coat; men may also wish to wear a suit and tie or tuxedo
   
  
• Women: Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; ladies may also wish to wear an evening gown
   
  
• Not permitted: Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, shorts, tee-shirts, sportswear, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
   
  

 

 

 

As I said: trying to accommodate everyone, which will never work (at least as far as not having some very unhappy campers when others stretch the envelope).

 

 

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[DLRM]

This is on the Carnival website regarding the MDR Dress Code. I guess it's how you define "Dress Code." DH usually wears dockers or casual pants on most nights, with a casual collared shirt or nice polo, and on Elegant nights a suit & tie or sport coat. To each his own I suppose. Today it's "wear what you want".

 

Main Dining Room(s)

Following is the dress code in the Main Dining Room(s) for both men and women and pertains to children as well:

Cruise Casual Dress Code

• Men: sport slacks, khakis, Jeans (no cut-offs), dress shorts (long) and collared polo shirts
  
• Women: summer dresses, casual skirts, pants, capris, dress shorts, Jeans (no cut-offs) blouses and tops
  
• Not permitted: Cut-off Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, tee-shirts, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
  

Cruise Elegant Dress Code

• Men: dress slacks, dress shirts, and we also suggest a sport coat; men may also wish to wear a suit and tie or tuxedo
  
• Women: Cocktail dresses, pantsuits, elegant skirts and blouses; ladies may also wish to wear an evening gown
  
• Not permitted: Jeans, men’s sleeveless shirts, shorts, tee-shirts, sportswear, gym or basketball shorts, baseball hats, flip-flops and bathing suit attire
  

 

The assumption then is that Carnival doesn't enforce this. Once you go down the rabbit hole by letting one or two people slip by, it's hard to start enforcing the rules. Personally, I'd l think no t-shirts - there are some nice, stylish, plain t-shirts out there - in the dining room is extreme (Cruise Casual) but I can agree with the rest.

[bichonandon]

Our first Carnival cruise, my husband followed the rules, even though he only owns one collared polo type shirt. He hates them, and during his off-hours, he has a uniform of sorts: warm weather, a specific type of heather grey tee shirt...cold weather, same type of heather grey long-sleeved tee shirt. Then either khaki cargo shorts or jeans.

 

But he wore a polo type shirt the first "casual" night. Then elegant night. He saw people with polo shirts on and complained to me. I told him I wanted him to look nice for our Love Boat pictures. He didn't have anything else to say about that. Later, he saw other guys wearing tee shirts in the MDR on the casual nights to follow and for our next cruise, he could not be convinced to wear a polo shirt of casual nights. If he sees other people doing it, he is going to do it as well.

[declansdad]

I'll preface this by sating we have't only been on 3 Carnival cruises but I have yet to see anyone wearing a wife beater on any night on the MDR and I can count on one hand the number of adults wearing t-shirts. Some people just like to over-state and make it seem like Carnival is full of people dressed like this.