Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[notamermaid]

This morning  I can say that we are seeing light at the end of the tunnel, finally. How long the tunnel still is we cannot be certain...

 

Following the rain yesterday the level at Maxau has risen to 337cm. That is a start as that wave will reach the Rhine gorge tomorrow. 350cm is forecast by the authorities. Kaub and Koblenz are still extremely low at 30cm and 19cm, respectively. It is currently raining a light to moderate rain around Basel and the Upper Rhine valley, so that rain will continue to fill the river during today and tomorrow. Now if we could only back this up with more rain.

 

notamermaid

 

[Rosenz]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

 

Looks like you may be on the same cruise as us, 'Magnificent Europe' Amsterdam to Budapest 10th November?

 

... or are you doing it the other way around and leaving from Budapest on the 10th?

Yes that’s the one we are on - with a little luck and a lot of rain, we’ll see you there!

[Mark_T]

20 minutes ago, Rosenz said:

Yes that’s the one we are on - with a little luck and a lot of rain, we’ll see you there!

Excellent, keep that positivity going...

 

Last I heard from APT was that Friday 2nd is the next update point. When do you actually begin traveling?

[Rosenz]

2 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Excellent, keep that positivity going...

 

Last I heard from APT was that Friday 2nd is the next update point. When do you actually begin traveling?

Saturday 3rd! Have spent this weekend making alternative plans to book on Friday night if it all goes pear shaped. How about you? 

[Mark_T]

Just now, Rosenz said:

Saturday 3rd! Have spent this weekend making alternative plans to book on Friday night if it all goes pear shaped. How about you? 

That is tight, let's hope it is positive on the 2nd.

 

For us it is a lot easier since we are in the UK, so we only have to fly out on the 10th.

[hbr777]

5 hours ago, notamermaid said:

This morning  I can say that we are seeing light at the end of the tunnel, finally. How long the tunnel still is we cannot be certain...

 

Following the rain yesterday the level at Maxau has risen to 337cm. That is a start as that wave will reach the Rhine gorge tomorrow. 350cm is forecast by the authorities. Kaub and Koblenz are still extremely low at 30cm and 19cm, respectively. It is currently raining a light to moderate rain around Basel and the Upper Rhine valley, so that rain will continue to fill the river during today and tomorrow. Now if we could only back this up with more rain.

 

notamermaid

 

Well, yay! As of now, Maxau = 354cm, Kaub = 29 and Koblenz = 24. Is it reasonable to assume that might rise more as the water flows down the river from Basel? It seems like the rain is over...

Edited October 28, 2018 by hbr777

[notamermaid]

That is tight, let's hope it is positive on the 2nd.

 

For us it is a lot easier since we are in the UK, so we only have to fly out on the 10th.

 

 

Mark_T,

a few days to go for you then, and as you said, you are good at packing at short notice. I really hope it will work out well for you. Looking at the situation today I think an Amsterdam to Budapest itinerary is still a gamble. But the Rhine is reacting well so far upstream from Worms. I wonder if APT will go ahead with the cruise if just one section of the itinerary returns back to normal. Whichever section that might be.

 

The weather is all over the place. I did not want to post it when I read in August that some weather experts thought we would not get much rain as there is a high over Europe keeping rain out for much of Autumn for the Western and Middle Continent. The idea seemed a bit too worrying but at the same time too far-fetched to me. I am sorry to say that they were right all along. We have this weather.

 

But the UK had mostly returned to its normal self after all the drought that was there in Summer. My green Kent was all dry and yellowish-green-brown in July.   Well now things are better, but not all normal apparently as an arctic wind gripped the North of England and has brought snow to Durham! While Durham Cathedral in a layer of snow must be an awesome sight, it is a bit mixed up weather, it does not snow there much, and it is only the end of October. Naturally people were caught unawares and the usual traffic chaos started...

 

Back to the Rhine were we are still glad for every centimetre of rain and rise in river levels. It is looking better than this morning and the forecast for Maxau has come true. Here are the levels: Maxau 354cm, Kaub 29cm, Koblenz 24cm. A fluctuation of a few centimetres during the day (see Kaub down one centimetre from this morning) is normal and can be ignored. While a rise of 30cm at Maxau does not automatically result in a rise of 30cm at Kaub, one can nevertheless assume that both Kaub and Koblenz will show a rise by tomorrow evening/Tuesday morning. The forecast indicates as such.

 

Thank you for explaining the graph of Kaub and situation on the river to hbr777 so well. I would just like to add one more thing. While Maxau, Kaub and Koblenz do need levels close to the GlW figure and above, the gauging stations from Andernach and further downstream are alright with less, as the navigation channel is considerably deeper there. At the GlW line Maxau is 210cm, Kaub 190cm, Koblenz 210cm, Andernach 250cm, Cologne 250cm and Emmerich even 280cm. So being a little under the GlW line is most worrying at Kaub.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

42 minutes ago, hbr777 said:

Well, yay! As of now, Maxau = 354cm, Kaub = 29 and Koblenz = 24. Is it reasonable to assume that might rise more as the water flows down the river from Basel? It seems like the rain is over...

hbr777,

 

we have just crossed paths. See my post above. We do need more rain to back it up. Lake Constance is so low it has got another island - exposed huge amounts of gravel.

It does not have to rain in Basel, but it is better to have widespread rain of course. The Vosges mountains the side of Strassbourg, the Neckar valley, Lake Constance and most of Switzerland all together, not forgetting the small rivers coming down from the Black Forest would be great.

 

I mentioned the figure of 50cm at Kaub as an indicator of when the large river cruise ships might get ready to sail through, when the first 135m ships will attempt it is down to captain and company. The river is never closed by officials (a few harbour areas excepted). There are small Dutch ships sailing through.

 

And here is something positive to follow up on:

These are the latest ports of call of the Leonora in transit. She is a 110m vessel whose signal will be lost in a few minutes in the Rhine gorge. Spay is usually the last port to pick up the signals going upstream. If all goes well she will reappear during the night local time or tomorrow around Rüdesheim or just after.

Edit: Info taken from marinetraffic.com.

 

notamermaid

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by notamermaid
Info added

[Mark_T]

My thanks to notamermaid for the added details.

 

With the Danube end of our cruise improving quite well, with ship movements in and out of Budapest in recent days it just remains to be seen if the area around Regensburg is also going to improve.

 

This does generally bode well for those starting their cruise in Budapest as it would mean that the majority of their cruise could be conducted without incident.

 

From the Amsterdam end though the Rhine Gorge occurs so early in the itinerary that if it remains as a blockage it is difficult to see how the can work around it without considerable use of hotels.

 

Just staying hopeful that the gorge ceases to be a problem over the next couple of weeks.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Mark_T

[Begete]

We are supposed to start our Budapest to Amsterdam cruise with Uniworld on November 9, so thanx for the more hopeful post.

 

Going a bit crazy trying to decide whether to pack for a cruise or a bus tour! Never been much of a boozer, but so stressed about this trip, glad Uniworld is all inclusive with wine!

[Mark_T]

'hopeful' is the point to emphasise though.

 

We need Budapest levels not to drop again and we need more water upstream beyond Passau, neither of which is guaranteed of course, but we can certainly hope.

[gadugger]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I recommend that you read "The Man in Seat 61" [www.seat61.com] for advice about booking train travel in Europe.  And then purchase your tickets through loco2.com

 

Thanks. I had forgotten about the seat 61 resource. I'm still hoping we can cruise from Amsterdam to Basel and not have to improvise if our cruise is cancelled. AMA says it has been able to provide a "water experience" for all its customers but if such experience doesn't get us to Basel as scheduled it won't work as we leave Basel by train to Paris for a week on our own with everything paid for and nonrefundable. I suspect that our travel insurance company would resist paying any extra costs we incur because of the cruise line cancelling that part of our trip.  

[notamermaid]

10 hours ago, austinetc said:

We're now in Mainz after a bus cruise from Amsterdam.  I should say Wiesbaden.  We'll tour Mainz today and I assume do a riverboat cruise down the Rhine tomorrow.  I heard a rumor that even the smaller tour boats can't reach Koblenz right now.  In any case, our cruise will enter the canal tomorrow night, so my interest in Rhine water levels fades.  

Our tour guide in Cologne said that the city's services haven't suffered "yet" from the low water level.  That he even mentioned that eventuality is illustrative. Cologne deserved a lot more than a two hour tour.  It did quickly become clear that the natives have a healthy sense of humor.  A mooning statue proved that.  I liked the beer.

Hello austinetc,

Thank you for reporting from your cruise. I hope you had a good time in Amsterdam and sorry to read that you only had two hours in Cologne. I can imagine the people there being quite laid-back about the situation. They say that the folks in Cologne can do that, one motto of theirs famously is "Et kütt wie et kütt". Sort of meaning what will be will be - do not be afraid of the future.

 

I hope you have enjoyed Mainz. Wiesbaden-Biebrich is not a bad place to be as an alternative to Mainz. The palace in Biebrich is close to the landing stage I believe. For tomorrow it is good as you will be a bit closer to the Rhine gorge than in Mainz. I would be interested to find out which excursion boat you will use.

 

Have a great time.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[hbr777]

56 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

hbr777,

 

we have just crossed paths. See my post above. We do need more rain to back it up. Lake Constance is so low it has got another island - exposed huge amounts of gravel.

It does not have to rain in Basel, but it is better to have widespread rain of course. The Vosges mountains the side of Strassbourg, the Neckar valley, Lake Constance and most of Switzerland all together, not forgetting the small rivers coming down from the Black Forest would be great.

 

I mentioned the figure of 50cm at Kaub as an indicator of when the large river cruise ships might get ready to sail through, when the first 135m ships will attempt it is down to captain and company. The river is never closed by officials (a few harbour areas excepted). There are small Dutch ships sailing through.

 

And here is something positive to follow up on:

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Thank you for explaining the graph of Kaub and situation on the river to hbr777 so well. I would just like to add one more thing. While Maxau, Kaub and Koblenz do need levels close to the GlW figure and above, the gauging stations from Andernach and further downstream are alright with less, as the navigation channel is considerably deeper there. At the GlW line Maxau is 210cm, Kaub 190cm, Koblenz 210cm, Andernach 250cm, Cologne 250cm and Emmerich even 280cm. So being a little under the GlW line is most worrying at Kaub.

 

notamermaid

 

 

If I were sailing on a river cruise ship from Basel to Amsterdam tomorrow, the ONLY bottlenecks would them be Kaub and Koblenz  because the navigation channel is not as deep and water is so shallow at the moment? Just trying to understand how a cruise company would handle this. If that is the only bottleneck, it seems like most of the cruise would be accomplished with (1) ship swap, assuming ships are available for that?

 

Geez, I feel like I am going to be a quasi-expert on this river and its depths :) I have learned so much here.

[dancefan8]

We are also booked on the APT Amsterdam to Budapest on November 10th.

[notamermaid]

2 hours ago, hbr777 said:

If I were sailing on a river cruise ship from Basel to Amsterdam tomorrow, the ONLY bottlenecks would them be Kaub and Koblenz  because the navigation channel is not as deep and water is so shallow at the moment? Just trying to understand how a cruise company would handle this. If that is the only bottleneck, it seems like most of the cruise would be accomplished with (1) ship swap, assuming ships are available for that?

 

Geez, I feel like I am going to be a quasi-expert on this river and its depths 🙂 I have learned so much here.

hbr777,

you are right. The bottleneck is looking downstream from just before Kaub to just before Koblenz. A short distance for a car. Viking has the ship swap business brought to almost perfection when the river is too low. Leave ship at Koblenz, get on excursion boat (provided one is available), bit of bussing to save time or no bussing, board other ship at Rüdesheim. Easy! Well, not quite when the river gets really too low, like we have now. Then the system struggles as ships sail slowly, there are more barges that have priority at the locks and docking places might not be accessible, or are occupied with other ships (a rarity with Viking as they have mostly their own landing stages with priority docking) that are also struggling.

 

If you do not have a ship to swap with then the alternative is a shortened itinerary or a part-bus trip, etc. depending on company.

 

By the way, Phoenix Reisen, a German company is doing it the "Crystal way" now. They have adjusted their itineraries from Amsterdam to Basel and are turning onto the Moselle at Koblenz up to Trier (and back) as the Moselle is navigable all the way. Crystal had done a similar thing on a few itineraries.

 

The news has reached the US more as an article has been shared via an international press agency on several sites. Here is the version on accuweather: https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/photos-unusually-low-rivers-in-germany-hit-shipping-industry-hard/70006477

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, dancefan8 said:

We are also booked on the APT Amsterdam to Budapest on November 10th.

 

Excellent, this cruise has to happen, it would be too cruel to have turned this thread into a 'roll call' and then not actually meet 🙂

[dancefan8]

8 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

 

Excellent, this cruise has to happen, it would be too cruel to have turned this thread into a 'roll call' and then not actually meet 🙂

Well fingers crossed! We are scheduled to fly from Birmingham. What about you?

[Mark_T]

16 minutes ago, dancefan8 said:

Well fingers crossed! We are scheduled to fly from Birmingham. What about you?

Heathrow for us, just keep an eye out for Mark & Liz onboard.

 

We just have to keep watching the Rhine progress, the Danube end is recovering quite well so less of a concern right now.

[hbr777]

If all I have to do on Amawaterways is a ship swap, I will be delighted!

[dancefan8]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

Heathrow for us, just keep an eye out for Mark & Liz onboard.

 

We just have to keep watching the Rhine progress, the Danube end is recovering quite well so less of a concern right now.

Will do. We are Sue and Martin. Yes, I agree that the Rhine seems to be the main problem now.

[Where’s Waldo]

Currently cruising with Viking along the Rhine starting in Basel-Ams. We made it to Strasbourg Saturday and yesterday  took a bus to Heildelberg castle and then to Koblenz with a boat swap in Koblenz. Viking did a great job setting up lunch in a German pub for us in Heildelburg. Bus was not fun but par for the course; about 1:25 to Heildelberg and a little over 2 hrs to Koblenz. 

 

It appears the ships are unable to go north of Strasbourg or south of Koblenz currently. Today we are to catch a bus going south and then take a scenic cruise to see the castles and then return to our new boat in Koblenz; so we are close to our itinerary. This is supposed to be our only boat swap. We were told river is improving and we didn’t have to go as far as anticipated for the boat swap. 

[newgolfr]

We just got off Amakristina in Amsterdam. We started on the Amastella in Basel and started the ship swap after Strasbourg. We had excursions in Riquewhr and Baden Baden and Antwerp. All the tours were excellent and the bus trip was broken up with a stop in Luxembourg city for a cathedral tour. We opted to have a nice long lunch at a local restaurant recommended by the tourist office on the square. We were able to cruise from Antwerp to Amsterdam. Ama was wonderful and we look forward to another cruise in the future with our full credit. 

[notamermaid]

Where's Waldo and newgolfr,

 

Thank you for your reports. As you both mention your coach travels it is apparent that, as I have tried to point up in my post above, the ship swap is not an easy business right now. Vessels do not manage to stick to their itinerary times, i.e. cannot even get to the closest ports to make a ship swap just covering the Rhine gorge. This applies to the Amsterdam - Basel vice versa itineraries.

 

Others, like austinetc, find themselves in unusual ports like Wiesbaden-Biebrich.

 

I am sorry to say that the Leonora I was tracking made it as far as Boppard in the Rhine gorge yesterday. After an afternoon stop (excursion?) she returned to Koblenz and is now sailing the Moselle. So she did not sail upstream through the gorge. Next one to watch is the Excellence Pearl, signal lost near Rüdesheim. She should reappear in Koblenz after her transit as she is a short Dutch ship. The Monarch Queen (ex-Amadagio) is 110m long, currently docked in Koblenz and marked as being on her way to Basel. Let's see what will happen with her, too.

 

Rain is sweeping (a drizzle mostly) over the Southwest of Germany today with Tuesday bringing more rain from the West. Wednesday will be a relatively dry day.

 

The river levels this morning: Maxau peaked earlier and is now down to 335cm, Kaub is at 31cm, Koblenz is at 24cm. As it has hardly rained further North and the wave from the South has not reached Koblenz yet, levels on the lower Rhine are still terribly low in figures. Emmerich at the Dutch border got it self a new low water level record this morning of 7cm. For Emmerich this means the navigation channel depth there is 199cm. Not reassuring if the draft of your ship is 160cm or more.

 

Need that rain sweeping over the whole West of the country, Luxembourg and France on Tuesday desperately.

 

notamermaid

 

[hbr777]

All this rain is moving north (see still shot or go to accuweather.com, it is terrific for radar - here is the forecast for Koblenz with radar) so if the rain holds it together, this would be a steady, slow-moving rainfall (albeit on the light side in places).

 

A note about accuweather. Accuweather is especially useful to get an idea about what the weather was like the previous year so you can plan for this one!  Under the "month" view for any location, choose the month and year. You can then see that month in calendar view with high/low temps, or toggle to list view, and that will include the precipitation.