Power strip allowed?

[austenfiend]

When looking at the Seaside room videos, it appears there are just two outlets, plus the international ones. Are power strips allowed? There are three of us in one room, and with all the technology...you get the drift.

[dcyonce]

We have always taken a small Monster Power outlet strip on all our cruises for years (Royal, NCL, Celebrity). Sorry haven’t done MSC yet.

 

We have never had a problem. One time security tagged our bag and made us hand over our little “outlet multiple”. (I never call it a power strip !!). The ship’s Chief Engineer took one look at it and made security give it back to us. He said that this type was fine and security should not have taken it.

 

— Don

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[markf]

power strip was taken away on MSC in November but on RCCL it was allowed ,

[cruisin_bliss]

It is my understanding that (according to multiple cruise lines) as long as there is no surge protection feature on the power strip it is good to go. For instance...an extension cord.

 

We too have a version of this monster power strip with usb plug ins and had no issues bringing it on board.

[austenfiend]

Thank you for the information, everyone. I don't constantly want to be fighting with my son (because he will ALWAYS win!) over re-charging our devices.

[sptrout]

It is my understanding that (according to multiple cruise lines) as long as there is no surge protection feature on the power strip it is good to go. For instance...an extension cord.

 

We too have a version of this monster power strip with usb plug ins and had no issues bringing it on board.

 

My comment may not apply here (MSC), but Celebrity, for one, does not allow extension cords of any kind and will confiscate them if found (sometimes anyway). Oddly, they as well as many cruise lines, do not specifically call out surge protectors even though there is an USCG warning paper about using them on any sea vessel. Carnival is the one exception (that I have seen) that does specifically prohibit surge protectors. Oddly, Carnival, Inc., does not push this rule out to its other lines that the Corporation owns (Princess that I know of, will even allow extension cords).

 

The whole issue of extension cords and/or surge protectors is really screwed-up. The rules vary by line and do not even match within a corporate family. It would seem that something as straightforward as surge protectors should be a universal "no", but sadly it is not. I guess it is going to take a major fire to get uniformity on these rules (especially surge protectors). And remember, that you will be sailing with thousands of passengers, on almost any large cruise ship, and very few of them are members of CC or know anything about the dangers of surge protectors.

[TravelinGert]

Thank you for the information, everyone. I don't constantly want to be fighting with my son (because he will ALWAYS win!) over re-charging our devices.

 

As far as recharging devices goes there are some USB plugs in each room as well as the standard electrical outlets. I'll verify on Saturday but reviews I've read said 2 by the desk and two by the bed.

[NYHartChapp]

Don't let those European outlets go to waste (for those in the US) and conversely, don't let the US outlets go to waste (for non-US travelers). Amazon carries a nifty little adaptor which will plug into either a US or European outlet and provide four USB ports and a single electrical outlet.

 

Here's what I got:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KLHMJT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[CTBob]

Asked for an extension cord for my wife's CPAP and was given a surge protector style multiple outlet with short cord that barely reached in an inside YC cabin. Was given a European extension cord in a Fantastica cabin and used it with an adapter we brought.

[ssmea03]

It is my understanding that (according to multiple cruise lines) as long as there is no surge protection feature on the power strip it is good to go. For instance...an extension cord.

 

We too have a version of this monster power strip with usb plug ins and had no issues bringing it on board.

 

Why is surge protection bad?

[chengkp75]

Why is surge protection bad?

 

If you search here on CC, you will find many, many posts by me regarding the dangers of surge protectors. Also, you can google "USCG Safety Notice surge protected devices".

 

Short answer is that normal land based surge protectors, when used on a ship's floating ground, can fail with no notice and cause a fire. For those who worry about protecting electronics, know that none of the ship's electronics, from the POS registers, to the main servers, to the critical bridge navigation equipment, to safety equipment like the fire detection system, to the engine room automation that keeps the lights on and the propeller turning, have any surge protection at all. The same floating ground that makes consumer surge protectors dangerous, also removes the hazards of voltage spikes from shipboard electrical systems. I have worked for 42 years on ships, many have been struck directly by lightning, and we have never had an electronic failure from lightning, due to the ship's floating ground.

[chengkp75]

Asked for an extension cord for my wife's CPAP and was given a surge protector style multiple outlet with short cord that barely reached in an inside YC cabin. Was given a European extension cord in a Fantastica cabin and used it with an adapter we brought.

 

Are you sure it was surge protected? Or did it just have a lighted on/off switch? Unless it said something like "joules of protection" or "clamping voltage" in the fine print on the power strip it wasn't surge protected.

[ssmea03]

If you search here on CC, you will find many, many posts by me regarding the dangers of surge protectors. Also, you can google "USCG Safety Notice surge protected devices".

 

Short answer is that normal land based surge protectors, when used on a ship's floating ground, can fail with no notice and cause a fire. For those who worry about protecting electronics, know that none of the ship's electronics, from the POS registers, to the main servers, to the critical bridge navigation equipment, to safety equipment like the fire detection system, to the engine room automation that keeps the lights on and the propeller turning, have any surge protection at all. The same floating ground that makes consumer surge protectors dangerous, also removes the hazards of voltage spikes from shipboard electrical systems. I have worked for 42 years on ships, many have been struck directly by lightning, and we have never had an electronic failure from lightning, due to the ship's floating ground.

 

Great answer. I presume "floating ground" because the ship isn't actually grounded, but the ship itself, a lovely great chunk of steel, is it's own ground.

And does a moored ship require a ground jumper?

[chengkp75]

Great answer. I presume "floating ground" because the ship isn't actually grounded, but the ship itself, a lovely great chunk of steel, is it's own ground.

And does a moored ship require a ground jumper?

 

No, on land, one leg of power, the "neutral", is connected to ground, so they are at the same voltage. On a ship, their is no "neutral", the two legs of the power circuit are separated from the ground. This keeps current from flowing to ground (as there could be on land), unless there is a failure of the insulation of some equipment. Current flowing through the steel hull, when immersed in sea water, creates a battery effect with other metals in the ship, and causes corrosion of the hull or fittings. Ships have a ground detection system that monitors both legs of the power, since they are not connected to ground, while a ground on land, in the neutral leg, could flow undetected, though safe. And, no, a moored ship does not require a jumper, as the hull is still grounded. The ground wire on the ship is connected to the hull, and still affords protection against shock.

[ssmea03]

No, on land, one leg of power, the "neutral", is connected to ground, so they are at the same voltage. On a ship, their is no "neutral", the two legs of the power circuit are separated from the ground. This keeps current from flowing to ground (as there could be on land), unless there is a failure of the insulation of some equipment. Current flowing through the steel hull, when immersed in sea water, creates a battery effect with other metals in the ship, and causes corrosion of the hull or fittings. Ships have a ground detection system that monitors both legs of the power, since they are not connected to ground, while a ground on land, in the neutral leg, could flow undetected, though safe. And, no, a moored ship does not require a jumper, as the hull is still grounded. The ground wire on the ship is connected to the hull, and still affords protection against shock.

 

Good to know that the ship has an ungrounded system, it totally changes everything.

Where can I read up on marine ungrounded systems? All the information I have refers to the limited land based use. And I don't have any personal experience of them.

[chengkp75]

Good to know that the ship has an ungrounded system, it totally changes everything.

Where can I read up on marine ungrounded systems? All the information I have refers to the limited land based use. And I don't have any personal experience of them.

 

Didn't say it was ungrounded. It is grounded, but the ground is at different voltage from the two power legs. The ground is connected to the hull, and to the neutral point of the wye connected 3-phase generator.

 

To read about shipboard electrical systems is probably difficult, I don't find much about it online, if you google "marine electrical systems" you get 95% about small boat DC systems. You can get technical books by googling "books on ship electrical system". I haven't seen much that delves into detail on the subject on the web, but I haven't looked very much. If I need a refresher, I get out my texts from the Academy.

[ssmea03]

Didn't say it was ungrounded. It is grounded, but the ground is at different voltage from the two power legs. The ground is connected to the hull, and to the neutral point of the wye connected 3-phase generator.

 

To read about shipboard electrical systems is probably difficult, I don't find much about it online, if you google "marine electrical systems" you get 95% about small boat DC systems. You can get technical books by googling "books on ship electrical system". I haven't seen much that delves into detail on the subject on the web, but I haven't looked very much. If I need a refresher, I get out my texts from the Academy.

A system without a neutral is an ungrounded system even though it has a floating ground. And distribution will all be delta. A system with a neutral is a solidly grounded system.

I'm trying to picture a delta system with a floating ground that's bonded only to the primary generator source wye.

[chengkp75]

A system without a neutral is an ungrounded system even though it has a floating ground. And distribution will all be delta. A system with a neutral is a solidly grounded system.

I'm trying to picture a delta system with a floating ground that's bonded only to the primary generator source wye.

 

Perhaps some different terminology for different applications. Yes, the generators are wye connected, and all transformers are delta/delta. We monitor our ground faults using an ammeter and high resistance resistor between phase and ground, and when the current reaches a certain milliamp, an alarm sounds and we go into ground fault hunting. These ground fault meters will be on each voltage step in the system: 10k, 480, 220, 120, and frequently also broken out by switchboard for each voltage (makes finding the little bastards a bit easier).

 

Maybe I'm not saying this right. Each distribution panel, switchboard, or motor starter has a ground in it, and that is grounded to the hull. The only connection from the power conductors to ground is at the generator neutral point, which is grounded to the hull as well. So, the hull is the ground, but there will only be current in the ground when an insulation failure happens.

[ssmea03]

Perhaps some different terminology for different applications. Yes, the generators are wye connected, and all transformers are delta/delta. We monitor our ground faults using an ammeter and high resistance resistor between phase and ground, and when the current reaches a certain milliamp, an alarm sounds and we go into ground fault hunting. These ground fault meters will be on each voltage step in the system: 10k, 480, 220, 120, and frequently also broken out by switchboard for each voltage (makes finding the little bastards a bit easier).

 

Maybe I'm not saying this right. Each distribution panel, switchboard, or motor starter has a ground in it, and that is grounded to the hull. The only connection from the power conductors to ground is at the generator neutral point, which is grounded to the hull as well. So, the hull is the ground, but there will only be current in the ground when an insulation failure happens.

 

Getting it now, although a lot of what you refer to as grounding I would call bonding, but it amounts to the same thing.

Now I would expect ground fault detection and interuption in cabins and public areas to be automatic and instantaneous, is this the case?

[chengkp75]

Getting it now, although a lot of what you refer to as grounding I would call bonding, but it amounts to the same thing.

Now I would expect ground fault detection and interuption in cabins and public areas to be automatic and instantaneous, is this the case?

 

No, there is no ground fault detection or interrupters, outside of the meters in the electrical distribution panels. I think the problem is that if you had ground faults on two circuits (one being L1/L2 and the other being L2/L3), that you could have a ground fault that would be dangerous but would not trip a GFCI (I haven't seen one in all my years at sea, so I don't know how they would work with three phases, just how they work in homes, maybe you know).

 

And this is why surge protectors are dangerous, as a ground somewhere else on the ship can cause the MOV's in the surge protector to see reverse voltage, and go into thermal runaway failure, and catch fire.

[ssmea03]

No, there is no ground fault detection or interrupters, outside of the meters in the electrical distribution panels. I think the problem is that if you had ground faults on two circuits (one being L1/L2 and the other being L2/L3), that you could have a ground fault that would be dangerous but would not trip a GFCI (I haven't seen one in all my years at sea, so I don't know how they would work with three phases, just how they work in homes, maybe you know).

 

And this is why surge protectors are dangerous, as a ground somewhere else on the ship can cause the MOV's in the surge protector to see reverse voltage, and go into thermal runaway failure, and catch fire.

 

Ground fault receptacles work in grounded and ungrounded systems with or without neutrals. We use them to upgrade ungrounded recepticles in old houses to make them safe, and they are in the bathroom on Divina.

A 2 pole, and I assume all the breakers are 2 pole, GFCI breaker should work as the current on both legs has to be balanced, 5ma difference will trip the breaker. Similarly for all 3 phases, each phase has to be balanced. The other scenario you suggest would surely be a short between phases causing at least 1 breaker to trip.

[chengkp75]

Ground fault receptacles work in grounded and ungrounded systems with or without neutrals. We use them to upgrade ungrounded recepticles in old houses to make them safe, and they are in the bathroom on Divina.

A 2 pole, and I assume all the breakers are 2 pole, GFCI breaker should work as the current on both legs has to be balanced, 5ma difference will trip the breaker. Similarly for all 3 phases, each phase has to be balanced. The other scenario you suggest would surely be a short between phases causing at least 1 breaker to trip.

 

Of course you're right about GFCI's, I was a bit muzzy when last posting, having been up for 24+ hours joining my ship and then taking it down the Delaware to sea, sorry. And, you could have a high impedance ground on two phases that result in low enough current to not trip breakers. These kinds of ground failures are fairly common in a shipboard environment, we are frequently chasing grounds. It is probably a cost factor that most cruise ships go the way of the low current limited "shaver" outlet in bathrooms, over the more expensive GFCI. As I say, I have personally never seen one on a ship.

[ssmea03]

Of course you're right about GFCI's, I was a bit muzzy when last posting, having been up for 24+ hours joining my ship and then taking it down the Delaware to sea, sorry. And, you could have a high impedance ground on two phases that result in low enough current to not trip breakers. These kinds of ground failures are fairly common in a shipboard environment, we are frequently chasing grounds. It is probably a cost factor that most cruise ships go the way of the low current limited "shaver" outlet in bathrooms, over the more expensive GFCI. As I say, I have personally never seen one on a ship.

I think the great advantage in ships is everything around you is conductive, passengers and crew are like birds on a hydro line. As long as you personally aren't the ground fault (or short) you're perfectly safe.

I expect 120v AC and 12/24v DC systems on plastic and wooden boats are far more dangerous.

[Toofarfromthesea]

Don't let those European outlets go to waste (for those in the US) and conversely, don't let the US outlets go to waste (for non-US travelers). Amazon carries a nifty little adaptor which will plug into either a US or European outlet and provide four USB ports and a single electrical outlet.

 

Here's what I got:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075KLHMJT/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

This. I have a multi-port USB charger that plugs into the European socket that takes care of all charging, leaving the US-style socket for other things.