2 nights in Denali Wilderness vs. 2 nights in Copper River Princess Wilderness Lodge

[rwa]

This will be our first time to Alaska. We’re planning a pre-cruise land tour next July before our cruise. One tour option offers 1 night in Anchorage, 2 nights in Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge and 2 nights in Mount McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge. The other option offers 2 nights in Copper River Princess Wilderness Lodge and only 1 night in Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge and 1 night in Mount McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge with no nights in Anchorage. We would appreciate any recommendations, pro or con.

[katrina915]

You might want to list the times at denali vs copper river and any activities included so that people can make recommendations. Based on what you are saying above, I believe you have only 1 night near Denali national park but I will let the princess experts chime in.

 

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[rwa]

Thank you for your suggestion! The land portion doesn't list times as far as I can see?

 

'Option 1' says arrive in Anchorage for overnight stay, next day travel to Copper River Princess Lodge and stay 2 nights, on to Fairbanks for 2 nights, Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge for 1 night, Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge (talkeetna) for 1 night and then to Whittier the next morning to board our cruise.

 

'Option 2' begins in Fairbanks staying for 2 nights, travel the next day to Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge for 2 nights, then to Mt. Mckinley Princess Wilderness Lodge (talkeetna) for 2 nights and ending in Whittier the next day to board cruise.

[katrina915]

It might be helpful if you looked on each lodges website to see what excursions are available. Depending on the schedule of the cruise tour, you may or may not be able to do them. Talkeetna is a long way from the park visitor center and wildlife shuttle buses. Denali wilderness lodge is close to the shuttle buses but it's hard to see what you have time for. A lot of people take flights to see the mountain from talkeetna. I have never been to Cooper river. I would post your question on the princess forum and/ or call princess for clarification of what excursions are included or have time for. Alaska is beautiful but be careful what you are getting since it's expensive.

 

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[katrina915]

Did you see the other question on this forum on princess cruise tours? There's a reference to something on the princess website that might help you.

 

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[rwa]

No, I didn't see it but I'll check! Thank you!

[mapleleaves]

Option 1 looks like a lot of travel time. On one hand, you're seeing more areas of Alaska, but you're not stopping long enough at each destination to do much. I'd also be concerned about the one-night in Denali for Option 1. Generally speaking you need TWO nights in Denali if you want to take a bus trip INTO the park to enjoy the scenery and wildlife. That's because the shortest bus trip recommended is 8 hrs RT. Often times the one-night stay arrives mid afternoon and leaves at noon the next, so you don't have time for the bus trip. Check to see if the Tundra Wilderness Tour is offered with Itinerary 1.... if so, that's an 8 hr trip which is a good sign !

 

As for Talkeetna and Copper River, both lodges are very isolated. Talkeetna is a very small town and the lodge is an hr bus ride away. Copper River is even more isolated. Talkeetna is a popular spot for Denali flightseeing. Cooper River for flightseeing at Wrangell St Elias. So look carefully at the excursion options to see if these locations are places you want to stay for 2 nights.

 

Personally I'd go for option 2 since it provides TIME to actually see and do stuff in Fairbanks and Denali . But it depends on your interests and priorities.

 

If you look in the 2015 trip reports there's a journal from mimmy52 that includes times in Copper River and Takleetna. It's photo heavy so lots of photos of all the lodges and activities.

 

Have you considered DIY so you can go to places that interest you and stay for whatever time YOU want? DIY doesn't necessarily mean a rental car; you can also travel DIY by train and/or Park Connection Bus then make your own reservations for lodging. Or the Alaska Railroad offers package trips, as does Princess Lodge if you don't want to handle details.

[donaldsc]

Thank you for your suggestion! The land portion doesn't list times as far as I can see?

 

'Option 1' says arrive in Anchorage for overnight stay, next day travel to Copper River Princess Lodge and stay 2 nights, on to Fairbanks for 2 nights, Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge for 1 night, Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge (talkeetna) for 1 night and then to Whittier the next morning to board our cruise.

 

'Option 2' begins in Fairbanks staying for 2 nights, travel the next day to Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge for 2 nights, then to Mt. Mckinley Princess Wilderness Lodge (talkeetna) for 2 nights and ending in Whittier the next day to board cruise.

 

This could mean that you arrive at Denali around noonish, stay overnight and the leave for Talkeetna which is in the middle of nowhere around noon on the next day. This gives you 1/2 day in Denali on the day you arrive and less than 1/2 day in Denali on the day that you leave. Do your really want that?

 

I am not saying that Princess (and all the other cruise lines) is lying when they describe the tour but they are certainly being deceptive and stretching the truth.

 

DON

[OCSC Mike]

Have you considered DIY so you can go to places that interest you and stay for whatever time YOU want? DIY doesn't necessarily mean a rental car; you can also travel DIY by train and/or Park Connection Bus then make your own reservations for lodging. Or the Alaska Railroad offers package trips, as does Princess Lodge if you don't want to handle details.

 

I'll second this suggestion. Next month will be our first time and we were originally doing a RCI pre-tour. I'm not adventurous and liked the structure of letting RC handle so much but as my wife researched further (it's really her trip) she realized she could see/do a whole lot more of what she wanted via DIY. I was still apprehensive until she found a tour company that helped her plan a 10-day trip from Fairbanks to Seward before the cruise from hotels to train tickets to excursions (some through them, some my wife found on her own). We're using the train to get from city to city the whole way (I have no interest in rental cars). I'm still a bit concerned as I don't travel much but she spent two weeks in Hong Kong and Japan with friends so I figure she should be able to get us through Alaska. :)

[mapleleaves]

The Alaska Railroad has pkg deals.

https://www.alaskarailroad.com/travel-planning/packages/summer-packages

 

Alaska Tours and Travel also has pkgs (they run the bus system that travels between Seward, Anchorage and Denali, as well as cruisetransfers. And they work with the railroad to book pkgs)

 

http://www.alaskatravel.com/

 

p.s. I have no personal experience booking a pkg deal with either company. I always rent a car or motorhome and take care of things myself. carol

Edited May 11, 2018 by mapleleaves
p.s.

[kennicott]

I'm not enamored by either option. I would bag Denali if you only have less than one day there and prefer Anchorage over two nights close to downtown Fairbanks. Personally, I would take the option of visiting the nation's largest National Park, Wrangell, St. Elias National Park----Copper River Princess Wilderness Lodge, but only if you work out an excursion, independent or cruise line, into the Kennecott Mine and McCarthy area, preferably by flying both ways.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/show....php?t=2142971

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/show....php?t=2466777

Hope these shots turn out here: Mount Blackburn when having lunch on the porch of Kennicott Glacier Lodge, four miles north of

McCarthy. C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\Blackburn from Kennecott lodge porch 2013.jpg

Three views of the Kennicott Valley from near the lodge and Staircase Icefall from McCarthy.------ C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\033.JPG------ C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\024.JPG---- C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\028.JPG---C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\McCarthy 2010 Kids Pics\047.JPG

[donaldsc]

I'm not enamored by either option. I would bag Denali if you only have less than one day there and prefer Anchorage over two nights close to downtown Fairbanks. Personally, I would take the option of visiting the nation's largest National Park, Wrangell, St. Elias National Park----Copper River Princess Wilderness Lodge, but only if you work out an excursion, independent or cruise line, into the Kennecott Mine and McCarthy area, preferably by flying both ways.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/show....php?t=2142971

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/show....php?t=2466777

 

Hope these shots turn out here: Mount Blackburn when having lunch on the porch of Kennicott Glacier Lodge, four miles north of

McCarthy. C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\Blackburn from Kennecott lodge porch 2013.jpg

 

Three views of the Kennicott Valley from near the lodge and Staircase Icefall from McCarthy.------ C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\033.JPG------ C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\024.JPG---- C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\2011 Pam's Jumbo mine pictures\028.JPG---C:\Users\ksmith\Pictures\McCarthy 2010 Kids Pics\047.JPG

 

I think that both of us agree that the tour parts of cruise tours are pretty horrible. However, the OP asked whether option 1 or option 2 was better. Given those choices, I would say that while both options are horrible, option 1 is less horrible than option 2 as you at least get 2 nights in Denali.

 

DON

[kennicott]

I think that both of us agree that the tour parts of cruise tours are pretty horrible. However, the OP asked whether option 1 or option 2 was better. Given those choices, I would say that while both options are horrible, option 1 is less horrible than option 2 as you at least get 2 nights in Denali.DON

 

You do have a point. OP did ask though " We would appreciate any recommendations, pro or con." So I guess my response and yours as well is "con". However, I lean toward Option #1 as well, which has only one night in Denali, not sure where you read two nights there? The night on the south side of the range in Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge is in the State Park, not Denali National Park. You must have meant you prefer Option #2.

[rwa]

Okay, we are looking outside Princess for the land tour to check out some other options. It seems to be the general consensus of most everyone that replied that neither of our original options are the best we can do! Thank you. That's why we put this out here!! We emailed Alaska Tour & Travel a couple of days ago but still haven't heard back from them. We'll call them Monday if we still haven't heard back. And we'll also contact Sharilyn at Alaska Collection.

 

It might be easier if I rephrase the question to give us a starting point. If YOU have 6 DAYS for your land tour, what would YOU choose as your priorities? Keep in mind that our cruise leaves from Whittier so we'll need to end our tour at that location. We'd like to take the train for a short part of the trip somewhere but not spend the entire day on the train!

[mapleleaves]

There are so many options ..... you need to provide more information about YOUR interests and physical abilities. ie no point in suggesting a trip to Matanuska Glacier for an ice trek if you aren't physically able.

Also..... is this for 2019 ? are you willing to drive? are you flying into Anc ?

[donaldsc]

You do have a point. OP did ask though " We would appreciate any recommendations, pro or con." So I guess my response and yours as well is "con". However, I lean toward Option #1 as well, which has only one night in Denali, not sure where you read two nights there? The night on the south side of the range in Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge is in the State Park, not Denali National Park. You must have meant you prefer Option #2.

 

I must have read it wrong. The more time in Denali the better.

 

DON

[kennicott]

There are so many options ..... you need to provide more information about YOUR interests and physical abilities. ie no point in suggesting a trip to Matanuska Glacier for an ice trek if you aren't physically able.quote]

 

It is important that visitors to Alaska determine what aspects might intrigue them the most. For instance, some prefer wilderness, "seeing the land as God made it before human intervention". Others like to interface with others, visiting small towns loaded with shops, etc. or even strolling the streets of the larger communities like Anchorage or Fairbanks.

A good example of places to stay are the five Princess Lodges up here. They call them "wilderness" however it is hard to categorize their lodge in Fairbanks as "wilderness" or even the one at Glitter Gulch "Denali". The other three though are good examples, of wilderness, Copper River Princess, Kenai Princess and Mt. McKinley Princess. They are either in undeveloped areas or right on the edge.

For instance, the one titled Mt. McKinley Wilderness Lodge is on the south side of the Alaska Range and about as close to the big mountain as you can get while booked into a contemporary full service lodge, it is in the Denali State Park but right on the south edge of the Federal Denali Park. Alaska's famous painter, Sydney Laurence, did a lot of his most popular work while camped in the Takositna wilderness (close to where this lodge now is) shortly after the turn of the last century. "The image of Mt. Denali from the hills above the rapids of the Tokositna River became his trademark. It is this image more than any other which personifies Laurence for his many admirers and collectors in Alaska and beyond." If you have some time in downtown Anchorage and visit the big museum there don't miss the huge painting of Sydney's there of Denali. I've seen it dozens of times and each time it never fails to take my breath away.

If you are not mobile enough to take advantage of hiking or other strenuous options at some of the more remote locations you "might" be inclined to opt for stays at hotels which offer a variety of assisted touring. I say "might" as there is nothing wrong with sitting in a lounge all day waiting for "Ad Summum" to show its magnificent face. I.e.---"Mt. McKinley Lodge features a room so spectacular we've named it "The Great Room." An irresistible haven with an impressive stone fireplace, The Great Room features cozy sitting areas, tables for card and board games, and enormous floor-to-ceiling windows that look out on Denali and the Alaska Range." or "Located above the Chulitna River, Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge is surrounded by majestic Denali National Park. Lodge-based Mt. McKinley activities abound. Guests can enjoy nature hikes, rafting, and wagon rides. A few minutes away are opportunities for flightseeing, horseback riding, or river rafting."

Interpretation: "Ad Summum" our latin moto back in my university days at the U of A in Fairbanks: "To the highest Peak".

[mapleleaves]

I agree with Mike .... do your research and determine what it is you want to see and do. I see that your trip isn't until July '19 so there's no immediate rush to come up with a wish list. Take your time and really look at popular locations to see which ones will best support your interests and priorities. ie if the scenery and wildlife in denali are a priority, that trip will take up the better part of 3 days. If a scenic train ride is a 2nd priority, the Anc-Seward leg is the most scenic, but it's a 4 hr trip so that will take rest of your time. Would you like to do a Kenai Fjords boat trip while in Seward. You could do that in a marathon day from Anchorage, OR you could overnight in Seward and ride Seward Buslines to Whittier to board the ship.

Or if you don't want to commit that much time to Seward, ride the train from Anc to Whittier. It's not as scenic as the Seward leg because it doesn't go by the glacier, however it still follows the Turnagain Arm then goes thru a 2 mile tunnel to arrive in Whittier. Perhaps you'd like to do a wildlife/glacier cruise in Prince William Sound before boarding the ship...the cruises leave around noon which is when the train conveniently arrives.

Or you could skip the train and spend an extra day touring around the Turnagain Arm .... pan for gold, visit the Wildlife Conservation Center, walk to Byron Glacier, visit Portage Glacier/Lake.

Or maybe you're drawn to the water and water activities. So skip Denali and spend the entire week on the Kenai Peninsula; start with the Turnagain Arm, then drive to Seward, Cooper Landing, Ninilchik, Homer.

Or skip Seward and Denali .... visit Matanuska Glacier for an ice trek and then detour to Independence Mine for a walk around. Drive to Copper River and do Wrangell St Elias and visit Kennicott Mine.

 

See what we mean .... MANY MANY options available.

 

One thing to watch for in the immediate future is a good price on a rental car. ie Enterprise in late june or july will open reservations for next summer. You can get a car for $30 a day. Look at all their Anc locations. Look at all vendors. I don't know where you're flying in from, but you may want to pick up a car at the airport and drive a few hrs to get a headstart on your travels.

 

For now, concentrate on your research. Look thru past trip reports to see what others have done pre/post cruise. Better yet, look at the Alaska forum of tripadvisor and you'll find many trip reports under Top Questions. Borrow a few Alaska travel books from your library. Send for the Alaska Dept of Tourism booklet. Alaska.org is a great resource .... it has a travel chart to determine distance and times between popular locations as well as Scenic Drives with suggested stopping points.

http://www.alaska.org/guide/turnagain-arm-drive

 

Heck, maybe you'll decide to rent an RV and drive around for a week and just go where the mood takes you ! I'll wave to you from my RV !

 

Have fun with your research and planning !

[rwa]

So many helpful suggestions & ideas! Thank you all! We'll begin digging in and doing our research over the next few months. I'm sure we'll have more questions along the way!

[kennicott]

Try to arrange this: Fly into Anchorage for overnight stay, next day travel to Copper River Princess Wilderness Lodge and stay 2 nights, travel the next day, via the Denali Highway, to Denali Princess Lodge for 2 nights then to Mt. McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge for 1 or 2 nights, traveling to and ending in Whittier to board cruise.

[mimmy52]

I would definitely choose option 2. My friend and I did option 1 in 2015 (you should see a link to my photo heavy report in my signature). I thought Copper River was wasted time. That might be because it was at the end of our trip rather than the beginning, but the really fun sounding excursions from there all took a considerable amount of time to get to and we'd already spent a lot of time on a bus. It was a long bus ride from Fairbanks to Copper River and another long bus ride from Copper River to Anchorage, although we did make a couple of interesting stops along the way.

 

The idea of two nights in Denali is a selling point and if the Denali History Tour is the included excursion there, be sure to upgrade to the Tundra Wildnerness Tour. Otherwise, you probably won't see wildlife. With two days there, you can probably do more in Denali if you choose. Even if you don't want to hike, you can see the Visitor Center and the sled dogs.

 

I liked the McKinley Princess Lodge. We were only there one night so just enjoyed the lodge the afternoon we arrived and left the next morning. That is a place where you can get some nice excursions, though, if you're there for two nights.

[rwa]

Thank you Kennicott & Mimmy. It's so helpful getting everyone's suggestions and ideas! And Mimmy, we'll check out your review and pictures!

[WisCruiser2]

We will be going to Copper River next week for two nights and looking forward to being "in the middle of nowhere." We are doing a hike with the Wrangell Institute for Science and Environment on the full day we are there. Yes, there will be a couple of long bus rides (we go to Fairbanks from there) but we want to see more of Alaska. I think the important thing in deciding which tour is to determine what you want to get out of it.

 

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[kennicott]

During the summer I drive a lot between Anchorage and the Kennicott River in the middle of the Wrangells. It usually takes me three hours from our Anchorage home to Glennallen which includes a stop for lunch or quick breakfast at a Golden Arches. Another 15 minutes and I pass by the entrance to the Copper River Princess Lodge. The tour coaches make quite a few scenic stops so throw in another hour on those from Anchorage to Copper Center and the Princess Lodge.

In my post # 20, I suggested taking the coach not through Fairbanks but across the Denali Highway to the Denali Lodge. I'm not sure of this season's coach schedules using the Denali Highway. I do know Princess, for one, does that since I've been in the Lodge in Copper Center when coaches have pulled in after crossing the Denali. The Denali is 134 miles long and only 15% paved. For someone looking to get a away from the normal tourist haunts though, it is an unique high country drive and it does eliminate about 150 miles when compared to the Fairbank's jog.

Over the years there has been pressure upon the State Department of Transportation to pave the Denali, mainly from tour bus operators. One of the big opponents of that project is the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce who frets that Fairbanks will lose visitors when a more scenic and convenient alternative is provided in contrast to the longer mundane drive on the Richardson north and then south on the Parks via Fairbanks. Now, I'm not sure if I agree with them on that as Fairbanks does have a lot to offer, but anyway, they have a point, particularly when visitors have a limited amount of time and have to sacrifice one or more destinations to get a decent trip in.

[mytime53]

Over the years there has been pressure upon the State Department of Transportation to pave the Denali, mainly from tour bus operators. One of the big opponents of that project is the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce ...

 

And don't forget the Alaskans who don't own boats or airplanes who like to get away from crowds of people in the summer. If that road was paved, it would be a vastly different experience.