Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[AFT_LOVER]

Jen, quick drunk & pissed at George, layed a kick to the balls & left as seen by 2 gals already interviewed on TV, statin that she got into the elevator solo & got off on 9. So she turns wrong & passes out or did whe know the employees door to meet Lloyd since she was up against the door when found by employees who called medical to come up.

 

Also a bloody towel at 4AM was not removed by steward earlier that evening when he did turndown, yet they state bed was made but George was put to bed in it, maybe not covered just layed like Jen was. So many different stories.

 

Then the photo with all the magazines, compasses, etc all over the floor. That very easily happens when balcony door is open & the room door opens with a major winds. But media spoke of rough housing down there, after the FBI, Turks, RCCL security was there investigating???

 

Then the physic who feels him alive. 4 months after I posted that he paid a fisherman to follow the ship & claim him & that would be from Italy. My neighbor was quite interested in it. He also bought the booze there too.

 

As far as the Smith's lawsuit (not including Jen who they seem to hate) they have til July to get it into court, and the same abulance chasing attorney for them is also doing the 12 families from the van rolling down the moutainside killing the Jews who booked their own tour, not a RCCL/Celebrity one. And we all know the guy lived but he wasn't licensed & is now very broke.

[Maryfrei]

Barky, the WFSB 3 turned out to be nothing more than a teaser for the 48 hours piece!

[C 2 C]

An intersting summary of the events can be found:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_Smith

[scott3566]

Macop, do you really believe Smith fell 20 feet, bled all over the place, jumped another 40 feet into the ocean so that a chartered fishing vessel would pick him up at 4:30 in the morning? All to get away from his new wife on a honeymoon? Do you produce movies?

[AFT_LOVER]

I have seen it all, from the unbeliebvable to the truly stupid. No murder proven in 10 months, a physic I know says he is still alive & I believe it also. Jen to do a movie or Maureen & George III, they want money as their lawsuit of RCCL is a joke, even the Grand Jury didn't bite on it. July 1 is the cut off date for it. FBI has no info released, so an accident or a flee......... and on hsi HONEYMOON he SLEEPS ELSEWHERE????

 

 

Macop, do you really believe Smith fell 20 feet, bled all over the place, jumped another 40 feet into the ocean so that a chartered fishing vessel would pick him up at 4:30 in the morning? All to get away from his new wife on a honeymoon? Do you produce movies?

[C 2 C]

Right.

And there's a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.

 

Stupid is as stupid does.

Guy got drunk. Pi**** out of his mind and at his wife. Sits on the railing and falls overboard.

The whole family can't believe that there wonderful little boy was not well behaved and wants to blame RCL for letting him drink too much. They're in the alcohol business and are surprised at the results...

[Hflors]

I saw part of the interview or press conference I think it was with his sister. She kept saying that he was a "murder victom". Some one needs to ask her to produce the evidence. I'm sick of hearing about this case. I think the theory that he fell off the balcony seem to me to be the most logical reason for his disappearance. The family and his wife want their 15 minutes of fame, than straight to the court room for their "pay day"! I wish RCCL would file a law suit against the family for not imforming their son that if you get drunk and sit on the railing of your balcony and fall off IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT!

 

He and his wife need to be responsible for their actions.

[Barky]

Barky, the WFSB 3 turned out to be nothing more than a teaser for the 48 hours piece!

 

Thanks Maryfrei.

 

I suspect since no one has been charged yet with murder that it was an accident. The Smith's will continue in their denial and they all hope to get some $ out of RCCL

 

Did you notice the qualifier when they showed the new video? They said RCCL claimed there were no investigative interviews on the ship. It's still slanted against RCCL.

[Barky]

George probably didn't sleep elsewhere. He probably passed out elsewhere.

[pcur]

As I just posted on the "48 Hours" thread:

 

"I think some of us are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 as an answer, me included a while ago.

 

Yes, these Russian dudes were undesirables. The blog I mentioned waaaay back on this thread talked about their behavior, the sex tape, the accused rape, etc. The blog also talked about all of what has been shown on TV.

 

However.......it doesn't mean they killed the guy.

 

I have two sons in their 20's, and I asked them about the drinking, the honeymoon "sleepovers", etc. They said it is very, very common in their age group to drink to extreme excess, and crash wherever you are. Most young men do this more than women. Women like to be in their own bed and bathroom to be sick and sleep. Guys drop on the nearest couch, etc.

 

They said the Smith's behavior is pretty consistent with their age group, for those that drink heavily. Sexual behavior is not very controlled.

 

However, one thing was cleared up for me in last night's program: the wife wasn't necessarily flirting, but "leaning" on other people, which I interpret to mean arms around, etc.

 

The reasons they didn't release the security tape of her being escorted to her cabin by another bar staff member, is probably:

 

1) the FBI said not to

2) they already have one staffer getting a lawyer; they didn't want this to mushroom

 

I can't make a call on the way RCCL conducted themselves during this. They said they helped and assisted all parties as much as possible. BUT, cruiser_carol has it right:

 

They allowed this disruptive, drunken behavior to go on during the cruise, and should have stopped it.

 

The Russians and their families were actually put off the ship after the rape accusation. The blog also talked about how they behaved on the dock. These were not nice people.

 

I think George's death was probably unavoidable. I think he fell over drunk, just like almost all the deaths on cruise ships. I think the Russians gave him a vehicle to drink to extreme excess, but it was ultimately his decision."

[Barky]

I just finished reading your post on the 48 hours thread and your sons' description of crashing seems to support my theory of sleeping vs. passing out. Guess I'm not so out there after all :D.

[pcur]

Yes, Barky, my son did the drinking thing for quite some time, and he said George and Jen's behavior is not that unusual.

 

Interesting program last night. However, the "never before seen" video was the rest of the tape Josh's parents made through the whole incident the day after. Smart people. Their son definitely needed some protection in a situation like that.

 

I've been to Turkey, and the one thing I said (also waaaaaaaay back in this thread) is I don't blame Jen for getting the heck out of there. You can see from the tape that the Turkish police weren't the most professional: interviews in open spaces; crazy, noisy interviews with crying children; signed statements in a foreign language.

 

If that was one of my sons, I would have refused to let him sign until I got a copy in English, THEN he's sign BOTH, and I'd take a copy of both with me.

 

A woman without a man in Turkey is NOT what you want. I was there in 1999.

[Barky]

Yes, Barky, my son did the drinking thing for quite some time, and he said George and Jen's behavior is not that unusual.

 

Interesting program last night. However, the "never before seen" video was the rest of the tape Josh's parents made through the whole incident the day after. Smart people. Their son definitely needed some protection in a situation like that.

 

I've been to Turkey, and the one thing I said (also waaaaaaaay back in this thread) is I don't blame Jen for getting the heck out of there. You can see from the tape that the Turkish police weren't the most professional: interviews in open spaces; crazy, noisy interviews with crying children; signed statements in a foreign language.

 

If that was one of my sons, I would have refused to let him sign until I got a copy in English, THEN he's sign BOTH, and I'd take a copy of both with me.

 

A woman without a man in Turkey is NOT what you want. I was there in 1999.

 

I think it was a good idea to make the tape as well. I'm just wondering if the gag order has been lifted or why is he now revealing the rest of it?

 

I don't blame Jen for "getting out of dodge" either. Under those circumstances I would not have wanted to remain either. I suspect she has been "taken care of" her whole life and without George she was "at sea." No pun intended.

 

It just occured to me why everybody (the Smiths and Jen) wanted the ship to remain. I believe I got the impression from an interview or article that they were unhappy with a vacationing FBI person being assigned and wanted someone from the FBI in the states ordered there to handle the investigation. Of course if I were on my own expensive vacation on that ship I would not have wanted it to end there either. Some people have such a strong sense of entitlement. Sheesh.

[pcur]

Well, add this to the reason why Jen is not being completely forthcoming:

 

She's an elementary school teacher and had just accepted a job for the Fall. Now, the image projected about her in this incident does not promote good faith in her, does it?

 

I think she wanted to keep a low profile, get home to her family, and get a lawyer.

 

They were lucky a vacationing FBI agent was available. It could have been a LOT worse for her.

 

I agree about the "entitlement" attitude. A lot of people think that money means "more rights".

 

I also agree that the civil lawsuits are about revenge. Most grieving families want SOMEBODY to blame besides their loved one who died.

 

Tragic situation; very tragic all the way around.

[Esmerelda]

I just saw MORE of this story again on the Nancy Grace show. The family was on there once again whining about the RCCL handling of the whole situation. I feel bad that these folks lost a son and a brother but you know what....you need to face the music here people. RCCL cannot control what goes on in your cabins...anymore than Disney can control what goes on in your resort room. I think RCCL has done all they can do as far as an investigation with this whole matter. Its in the hands of the FBI. If George and Jen made poor decisions that night..that is not the cruise lines fault..not at all. George's parents are just simply looking for someone to blame at this point....and the whole truth may never come out at all. I work in an emergency room and I work with a lot of police departments and yes...I have heard some stories that were so bizarre that even I had trouble believing them...but adults can do some extremely strange things!! (esp when they are intoxicated...drugged up...pissed off...etc)

 

What puzzles me...why is it you see the Smith family on TV doing these interviews...but yet...the beloved widow is nowhere to be found? I find THAT very bizarre....doesn't appear like they want anything to do with her...hmmmm.....

 

Esmerelda

[AFT_LOVER]

On more than one night in 8 per Jen..............

 

 

George probably didn't sleep elsewhere. He probably passed out elsewhere.

[AFT_LOVER]

I just watched all my TIVO & Nancy Grace was last. Sure enough we have a repeat appearance of the Smiths, Sabrina is still Bree and still calling for the hanging of the Captain for calling this AN ACCIDENT. She also stated that Kyl from Arizona & some NYC woman is calling for major security on cruise ships. What about hotels, theme parks, even your home. No lawsuit & the Grand Jury is a secret trial, no one finds out anything about it unless the attorney blare it.

 

Gotta compliment Nancy on her new do.......... and her rememberance of her fiance murdered right in front of her in NYC 20 years ago. That stuck it to them & I applaud her. Then George III states that he wishes they would find George so he can walk to the back door & say HI I'M HOME. Even Nancy stated it twice including her closing comment.

 

So I am not alone as well as the physic.

 

 

I just saw MORE of this story again on the Nancy Grace show. The family was on there once again whining about the RCCL handling of the whole situation. I feel bad that these folks lost a son and a brother but you know what....you need to face the music here people. RCCL cannot control what goes on in your cabins...anymore than Disney can control what goes on in your resort room. I think RCCL has done all they can do as far as an investigation with this whole matter. Its in the hands of the FBI. If George and Jen made poor decisions that night..that is not the cruise lines fault..not at all. George's parents are just simply looking for someone to blame at this point....and the whole truth may never come out at all. I work in an emergency room and I work with a lot of police departments and yes...I have heard some stories that were so bizarre that even I had trouble believing them...but adults can do some extremely strange things!! (esp when they are intoxicated...drugged up...pissed off...etc)

 

What puzzles me...why is it you see the Smith family on TV doing these interviews...but yet...the beloved widow is nowhere to be found? I find THAT very bizarre....doesn't appear like they want anything to do with her...hmmmm.....

 

Esmerelda

[berwyn]

Tomorrow on ABC primetime [8:00 pm cst] they will have more stories of missing passengers.They will focus on the Irish girl who fell off a Costa ship.

[ILoveScotland]

What about hotels, theme parks, even your home.

 

Not a security issue, but the second person has died on a new ride at Disney in less than a year meaning to me that no place is 100% safe. And no security system whether in a hotel, theme park, home or cruise ship can change tha. That's just life.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

Not a security issue, but the second person has died on a new ride at Disney in less than a year meaning to me that no place is 100% safe. And no security system whether in a hotel, theme park, home or cruise ship can change tha. That's just life.

 

Yes, things can happen anywhere, however, if you are unfortunate enough to have a crime committed against you or a loved one on a cruise ship...you are hosed. They seem to be able to do what they want. If the cabin was a hotel room (at least in the US), it would have been processed properly. The cruise line wasn't about to let this stop the next cruise. It was cleaned up and the next group of passengers boarded.

 

If this young man was indeed drunk, and he was robbed, and then killed, I do understand that this could happen anywhere. And I'm not even sure this is what happened, but if he did have a casino win, and he was drunk, he was putting himself at risk no matter where he was...be it the ship, or a hotel in Las Vegas. But what sets these two settings apart is how they will be investigated.

 

We love cruising, but we also understand that there is a risk when we do this.

 

I feel sorry for his family. I'm not sure they'll ever get resolution to this. And I don't think just RCCL would behave in this fashion. I think they'd all do this. So if you cruise, just understand what the risks are, and if you are a victim of a crime, good luck in getting justice.

[C 2 C]

Statistics of dying:

 

In case anyone is interested... here are some numbers to indicate the chance of dying in certain situations:

 

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm

[twinkletoes4445]

That is very interesting. I'd also like to know how many crimes that are committed on cruise ships, are resolved, compared to other crimes.

 

We love cruising...and probably wouldn't discontinue cruising, but you just also have to be aware that the cruise lines are not going to want to admit that someone was murdered on their line. Really, it's a perfect place to commit a crime. You push someone overboard, and that's that. Unless you have a witness, the perp will most likely get away with it. And how many times do they actually recover the body...not many, if any.

 

Just be careful...be aware of your surroundings, and don't do foolish things like drinking too much and wandering around alone. Pretty much the same thing you'd do while on a land-based trip.

 

Personally, I'm not sure how RCCL can explain away the commotion that was heard in the cabin, and the blood in the cabin. Their failure to question neighboring guests is sad. There's that one guy, who was a former cop (I think) who has had some interesting things to say about this. I personally think that Mr. Smith was murdered. I also believe that it will not be resolved. This is a risk you take when you cruise.

 

But...I'd probably cruise RCCL in the future because I do believe all cruise lines would act in the same fashion. And that is scary and just my opinion...

[pcur]

The blood in the cabin, on the towel, bed and carpet were from earlier in the evening.

 

The two cabins next door did call security, who came, looked in, found no one there and no mess, etc., and left.

 

If someone is pushed overboard, they'd better hope a security camera is not pointed in there direction.

[twinkletoes4445]

The blood in the cabin, on the towel, bed and carpet were from earlier in the evening.

 

The two cabins next door did call security, who came, looked in, found no one there and no mess, etc., and left.

 

If someone is pushed overboard, they'd better hope a security camera is not pointed in there direction.

 

The man who is a former police officer said he was in the cabin next to them, and no one questioned him. As for the blood being from earlier...who is saying that? I've not heard that at all. I would suspect the cruise line would like that to be the case. Too bad the security officers didn't take a looksie on the balcony...there was blood on the railing, and on the life boat. There was also blood in the room.

 

Yes, I am sure there are cameras. However, of all the people who have gone overboard (and no one saw it), have you ever heard of this being caught on camera? I haven't. Like I said, if you want to kill someone, a cruise ship is the perfect place. Push them over the side, and that's that.

 

All I am interested in is being safe on a cruise. That's it. Something is fishy here. You may be able to explain things away, but I want them resolved. Sorry, but RCCL does not get a pass from me...

 

I don't know what happened to George Smith. I am not happy to see how it was handled by the cruise line. God help you if you are a crime victim on a cruise ship. It's that simple. The one good thing that might come from this is maybe they will install more cameras to help prevent this sort of thing. But then I may be giving the cruise industry too much credit. I don't think they really want to know what's going on. I really don't think they do.

 

There was a thread somewhere (I don't think it was on this board), where a man reported that his daughter was being talked to in an inapproriate manner, and he reported it to security. Security hounded and harassed this girl when the father wasn't around. Nice going. It's stories like this, and the medias fascination with "bad" news about cruising, that will keep them covering them.

 

Of course until it involves you, most people will make excuses. Then it's another story once they are the victims.

[DNCButler]

twinkletoes, it was actually the middle of the night when security went to the cabin. If nothing looked out of place then why would they go to the balcony, especially if the door is closed and drapes shut? Even at dark how would they see the drop(s) of blood on the railing in the middle of the night unless they knew there was a problem? And I do believe that the blood on the bed, towel and balcony were referred to as small amounts of blood, not anything more than that. Heck! I've cut my hands at work at least 4 times this week and that bled more than a few drops! Security gets calls all the time like this so I'm not sure I'm ready to condemn the cruise line.

 

As for the cruise ship sailing on, why wouldn't it? They did what they should have done once they knew they had a problem with someone missing. They called the authorities. The Turkish police handled everything and I haven't seen ANYTHING that PROVES that this is a murder. At best they know that they had a man fall overboard. Let's not forget about the chair propped up against the railing. You have to be a total idiot to sit on a railing like that, let alone at night after drinking heavily!

 

So many seem to want to point the finger at Royal Caribbean but no one even knows for sure what happened.

 

I feel terrible for the family, I truly do, this is a tragic situation for sure. But if anyone learns anything from this, it should be to not drink to the point you can't walk, stand, or remember where your cabin is. AND DON'T SIT ON RAILINGS!

 

And this is not something exclusive to the cruise industry, land based resorts have terrible reporting history as well. I had a client who's daughter was grabbed and thrown into shrubs in Mexico by a security guard at the resort and not only would they not report it to the local police (from the resort), the man was allowed to remain working at the resort despite witnesses to what happened.