Carrying of Passports compulsory ?

[iancal]

We have had numerous vacations and cruises in Italy. We have never carried our passport for day outings. Always left them in the hotel safe. If we have a rental, we carry our DL, and international DL. But, we have never been stopped so whose to know?

[lisiamc]

Not arguing with you. The reason why many of us believe it’s not compulsory is because the cruise lines themselves don’t tell pax to carry them. They recommend photo I.D. There are some ports such as SPB where you are told by cruise line passport is mandatory such as Russia. When we were in Italy nobody there checked for ID at any port.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I’m not sure what the state of play is right now in Venice, but in the past, passports have been required for re-boarding in that particular port, and the ships have reminded passengers to be sure they take their passports ashore that day.

[euro cruiser]

Not arguing with you. The reason why many of us believe it’s not compulsory is because the cruise lines themselves don’t tell pax to carry them. They recommend photo I.D. There are some ports such as SPB where you are told by cruise line passport is mandatory such as Russia. When we were in Italy nobody there checked for ID at any port.

I'm trying not to argue as well, I just get snippy when people present their opinion as fact. We have enough of that in politics, we don't need it here.

 

There is true danger in relying on a cruise line for accurate information, I'm afraid. I've sat in on enough port talks to know that their "experts" either don't know as much as they claim, or they are deliberately making incorrect claims in order to drive passengers toward their excursions by scaring them (sounds like politics again).

 

I think the distinction with Russia is that you physically can't leave or return to the ship without a passport. In Italy no one is going to stop you from getting off without it and most of the time nothing is going to happen that will require it, so it's easy to tell yourself it isn't needed.

 

Again, it's a personal decision. Now you know it's the law and you can't claim ignorance but you can make an educated assessment of risk and decide for yourself what you are most comfortable with. Is the risk of having something happen where you need the passport higher or lower than the risk of losing it? I suspect that most of us lean toward the chance of losing it being the greater risk.

[Hlitner]

Euro,

 

Just between you and me (LOL) do you always carry your Passport when in Italy? Don't worry, we won't tell anyone :).

 

Hank

[GOLDENBONNY]

Wrong, it is required. Read post #7 if you need proof.

 

Many people choose to take the risk, as you do, of heading out without their passport. Maybe most do, I don't know, but please don't tell people it isn't required just because you don't like it.

 

No its not. Sometimes cruise lines collect your passports and if it would be required they would give it back. No one ask you for passport anywhere in Italy even when you go back to ship. no one in right mind would care passport around in our days

[cruisemom42]

No its not. Sometimes cruise lines collect your passports and if it would be required they would give it back. No one ask you for passport anywhere in Italy even when you go back to ship. no one in right mind would care passport around in our days

 

Do you not understand that there is actually a legal requirement in Italy to carry your passport??

 

It is rarely enforced; however, that is not the same thing as saying it does not exist.

 

As mentioned by Lisiamc upthread, I have also been told by the staff on my cruise ship (on two separate cruises) that Venice does require a passport or other valid national id to reboard ships from the cruise terminal. At San Basilio pier I can confirm it was checked. At Marittima, it wasn't.

 

If there is no specific need (such as the one mentioned above), I will not carry it. But I'm not denying that technically it appears to be a requirement in Italy.

[Grandma Cruising]

Our passports were not checked when reboarding the ship at San Basilio in July this year.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[euro cruiser]

There is real danger in extrapolating from your own experience and assuming that you understand the law because of what happened to you.

 

There are times when cruise lines do hold onto passports, I had that happen when in the Med once so obviously we could not carry them with us. This was an unusual occurrence due to a G8 (I think that's what the number was at that point) summit meeting being held in Naples.

 

Goldenbonny is free to believe whatever he/she wants and act accordingly but it's not right to come here and give bad information to fellow cruisers.

 

To answer Hank's question, I usually do have my passport on me and in several decades of international travel, to many corners of the world, I've never lost it. As I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, I often travel alone and if something were to happen there would be no one to identify me or to return to the apartment/hotel/ship to retrieve it if I was detained.

[Twickenham]

If you want to wade through the legalese in Italian, have fun with this:

 

 

http://www.normattiva.it/uri-res/N2Ls?urn:nir:stato:decreto.legislativo:1998-07-25;286!vig=

 

And if you don't want to wade through it all, I can tell you the relevant info is in Article 6, paragraph 3. Per Google Translate:

 

((3. A foreigner who, at the request of officers and public security officers, does not comply, without a justified reason, with the order of presentation of the passport or other identification document and residence permit or other document certifying the regular presence in the territory of the State is punished with arrest up to one year and with a fine up to 2,000 euros)).

 

To answer Hank's question, I usually do have my passport on me and in several decades of international travel, to many corners of the world, I've never lost it. As I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, I often travel alone and if something were to happen there would be no one to identify me or to return to the apartment/hotel/ship to retrieve it if I was detained.

 

 

As do I. Not frequently, but I have had occasion to present it in various situations, and have been very happy to have it with me.

[johnmik1]

If the ID needs to be issued by the government,I will just carry my Global Entry card and a copy of my passport in Italy next month!

[Hlitner]

Do you not understand that there is actually a legal requirement in Italy to carry your passport??

 

It is rarely enforced; however, that is not the same thing as saying it does not exist.

 

As mentioned by Lisiamc upthread, I have also been told by the staff on my cruise ship (on two separate cruises) that Venice does require a passport or other valid national id to reboard ships from the cruise terminal. At San Basilio pier I can confirm it was checked. At Marittima, it wasn't.

 

If there is no specific need (such as the one mentioned above), I will not carry it. But I'm not denying that technically it appears to be a requirement in Italy.

 

The last two times we were docked at Marritima, the security hut did check both our cruise card and a government picture ID. On my case I used an expired Drivers License from Pennsylvania and they were always satisfied. I cannot recall the last time any of our cruise ships informed passengers that they were legally required to carry their Passports in Italy. We do recall being told this 20+ years ago.....but now they just talk about a government issued picture ID. Like others we have also cruised on some itineraries where the cruise ship's Purser Office held everyone's Passports...even when we were in Italy.

 

Hank

[euro cruiser]

I cannot recall the last time any of our cruise ships informed passengers that they were legally required to carry their Passports in Italy.

Yeah, but there are few less credible sources of information than cruise ship employees. Some of the crap I've heard come out of their mouths was truly, shockingly stupid and flat out wrong. I've wondered if they believed what they said, or if they just said anything to move the line along, or if they knew they were misleading passengers and just didn't care.

 

I would bet that most of us who have cruised in the Med have experiences where our passports were withheld by the ship for some reason and the decision was taken out of our hands.

 

I would also bet that many (if not most) of us have knowingly broken laws (speeding, parking where we didn't belong, etc.) understanding what the consequences might be but also figuring in the odds of getting caught.

 

The bottom line is knowing what is required so each of us can make our own, informed choice just as we do when we cruise along at 64 in a 55 zone (you know you do it!).

[cruzgryphon]

Just wondering - I'm Canadian and have a Nexus card which I think is technically issued by the US Government (not sure though). Would that Nexus card count as government issued identification?

[LondonTowner]

This question comes up time and time again on Tripadvisor Rome Forum. Non EU citizens need to carry their passport, not a copy or driving licence. EU citizens from other EU countries only need to carry their ID cards. UK citizens also need to carry their passports as we don’t have ID cards.

 

It is highly unlikely you will ever be asked to show it, but I have in both Spain and France in recent years. I always carry our passports and travel frequently. Fortunately never lost or misplaced them.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[cruisemom42]

Just to play devil's advocate, the wording (as posted by Twickenham) of the requirement is rather vague:

 

(3. A foreigner who, at the request of officers and public security officers, does not comply, without a justified reason, with the order of presentation of the passport or other identification document and residence permit or other document certifying the regular presence in the territory of the State is punished with arrest up to one year and with a fine up to 2,000 euros)).

There is nothing that says one has to have said passport or identification document on their person at the moment of the request -- it merely says you must comply with their request.

 

What's to say you couldn't provide said document after returning to your hotel room or cabin to retrieve it?

 

And, it's true that there are times when the ship is holding everyone's passport. Would they arrest me or fine me if I was merely complying with the requirements of the officers/staff of the ship in turning my passport over to them?

[euro cruiser]

What's to say you couldn't provide said document after returning to your hotel room or cabin to retrieve it?

 

And, it's true that there are times when the ship is holding everyone's passport. Would they arrest me or fine me if I was merely complying with the requirements of the officers/staff of the ship in turning my passport over to them?

I imagine it would depend on the situation, if the police have a reason to detain you I doubt they are going to trust a foreigner with no ID to come back on their own with the passport. If you have someone with you who could get it while the police hold you, that would probably work.

 

In any event, and especially those times when the cruise line holds your passport, it's critical to have the name and phone number of the port agent on you.

[LondonTowner]

I have never been on a cruise line when they have kept my passport. If you are in say, Italy and you don’t have the passport with you and for whatever reason, get stopped by the police, I imagine, will accompany you to the ship.

 

In Spain a few years ago myself, sister and friend were stopped whilst driving a hire car by the guardia civil. My friend and sister weren’t carrying photo ID. We were issued with a €200 on the spot fine.

 

So, yes, checks are made. When I was stopped in France two years ago nothing happened as I had it with me.

 

If the law of the country requires you to carry your passport I don’t see what the problem is not complying with the law.

 

With so many incidents happening in the world these days I think common sense should tell you to carry ID.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Hlitner]

I have never been on a cruise line when they have kept my passport. If you are in say, Italy and you don’t have the passport with you and for whatever reason, get stopped by the police, I imagine, will accompany you to the ship.

 

In Spain a few years ago myself, sister and friend were stopped whilst driving a hire car by the guardia civil. My friend and sister weren’t carrying photo ID. We were issued with a €200 on the spot fine.

 

So, yes, checks are made. When I was stopped in France two years ago nothing happened as I had it with me.

 

If the law of the country requires you to carry your passport I don’t see what the problem is not complying with the law.

 

With so many incidents happening in the world these days I think common sense should tell you to carry ID.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

"Complying with the law" is a very interesting concept :). Of course in England nobody ever exceeds the posted speed limit...just like they do not do this in our country :). And if you are ever in Venice and decide to go to the beach in nearby Eraclea...be very careful not to build a sandcastle...because it is illegal. And while you are in Rome, with your Passport, do not join with 2 others to sing or dance because that is against the law. But I suppose of 3 of you were dancing in a park, the police would demand to see your Passport :).

 

Oh, and if you are visiting Positano (we love this town) do not sit down on a bench to enjoy a snack or sandwich because "picnics" are illegal in that city!

 

But I loved the post about the Italian Police would likely accompany you to the ship if you did not have your Passport and told them it was on the ship. So the next time we are in Florence (on a port day) we should go up to a member of the Police and tell them we do not have our Passport and would they please drive us back to the ship :).

 

Ain't the law fun?

 

Speaking of the law we have a Brit friend (who routinely posts here on CC) who got stopped by the Police while driving in Virginia! When the Policeman looked at his UK License he just handed it back and let our friend go...sans fine. Ain't the law grand?

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

I have never been on a cruise line when they have kept my passport. If you are in say, Italy and you don’t have the passport with you and for whatever reason, get stopped by the police, I imagine, will accompany you to the ship.

 

In Spain a few years ago myself, sister and friend were stopped whilst driving a hire car by the guardia civil. My friend and sister weren’t carrying photo ID. We were issued with a €200 on the spot fine.

 

So, yes, checks are made. When I was stopped in France two years ago nothing happened as I had it with me.

 

If the law of the country requires you to carry your passport I don’t see what the problem is not complying with the law.

 

With so many incidents happening in the world these days I think common sense should tell you to carry ID.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

The problem is that in the US our default "photo ID" is our driver's license. So we may have "photo ID" on us, but the question is whether or not it would be acceptable. In some situations I have known it to be accepted in Europe as valid identification despite not being a nationally-issued id. In other situations, it isn't.

 

Also, if I lose my passport in France, I cannot return to the US without it. Hence I tend to be very careful with mine and I prefer to leave it in the safe rather than have it with me unless there is a clearcut reason to carry it. In the UK, as I read the rules, you can use a passport or other nationally-issued id. We don't have that option.

[LondonTowner]

The problem is that in the US our default "photo ID" is our driver's license. So we may have "photo ID" on us, but the question is whether or not it would be acceptable. In some situations I have known it to be accepted in Europe as valid identification despite not being a nationally-issued id. In other situations, it isn't.

 

 

 

Also, if I lose my passport in France, I cannot return to the US without it. Hence I tend to be very careful with mine and I prefer to leave it in the safe rather than have it with me unless there is a clearcut reason to carry it. In the UK, as I read the rules, you can use a passport or other nationally-issued id. We don't have that option.

 

 

 

In the U.K. it’s not compulsory to carry ID with you, or any form of any identification. It has been a contentious issue for a number of years as some people are very opposed to recent governments wanting to introduce them. It is only in recent years, maybe ten, I can’t remember exactly, that we have had photos on our driving licences. In fact, I have had to recently renew my driving licence and the one I had until now didn’t have a photo.

 

EU citizens can fly between EU countries by just producing their ID cards. British and citizens of the Republic of Ireland have to take their passports. Next week we are spending a couple of days in Belfast and theoretically I can board the plane by showing a driving licence, but if we were going to Dublin we need our passports.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Hlitner]

A couple of hours ago I posted a tongue in cheek post about Italian laws. Now I happened to see another post (from today) about a new law in Florence that makes it illegal to eat in the streets during prime lunch time hours :). I am trying to picture an Italian Policeman (or woman) assessing a 450€ because they see somebody walking down the street with a cone of wonderful gelato. And just imagine if the police ask that tourist for their Passport? Kind of boggles the mind :).

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

In the U.K. it’s not compulsory to carry ID with you, or any form of any identification. It has been a contentious issue for a number of years as some people are very opposed to recent governments wanting to introduce them. It is only in recent years, maybe ten, I can’t remember exactly, that we have had photos on our driving licences. In fact, I have had to recently renew my driving licence and the one I had until now didn’t have a photo.

 

EU citizens can fly between EU countries by just producing their ID cards. British and citizens of the Republic of Ireland have to take their passports. Next week we are spending a couple of days in Belfast and theoretically I can board the plane by showing a driving licence, but if we were going to Dublin we need our passports.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Ah yes -- sorry about that. I was thinking of Schengen countries.

[Alaskanb]

This is the reply I received from the US Citizens Bureau which is part of the US Embassy in Rome

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

According to Italian Immigration law, non-EU citizens visiting Italy need to carry valid ID at all times. Therefore, a photocopy of the passport may not be accepted. While most law enforcement officers may accept a copy of your passport along with another original I.D. such as a State I.D. or U.S. driver’s license, the only acceptable form of I.D. for foreigners in Italy is a valid passport. Should you decide to carry your U.S passport on you, we recommend you keep it in a safe place to avoid being the victim of pick pockets or losing it.

 

Sincerely,

 

American Citizens Services

Rome, Italy

[euro cruiser]

This is the reply I received from the US Citizens Bureau which is part of the US Embassy in Rome

Thank you for your e-mail.

 

According to Italian Immigration law, non-EU citizens visiting Italy need to carry valid ID at all times. Therefore, a photocopy of the passport may not be accepted. While most law enforcement officers may accept a copy of your passport along with another original I.D. such as a State I.D. or U.S. driver’s license, the only acceptable form of I.D. for foreigners in Italy is a valid passport. Should you decide to carry your U.S passport on you, we recommend you keep it in a safe place to avoid being the victim of pick pockets or losing it.

 

Sincerely,

 

American Citizens Services

Rome, Italy

So now we have both the Italian law and the US Government response. Armed with this information (as opposed to "alternative facts") we can all make an informed decision about what we feel comfortable doing.

[TinkBellaMom]

New Mexico driver's licenses meet the REAL ID requirements. While issued by the state they meet federal requirements. https://www.dhs.gov/real-id. I wonder how they fit into the mix?

Florida recently started issuing this type of ID/Drivers License. Requires many types of proof of identity before issued, as well as anti-counterfeit details. It is supposed to serve as a US citizen ID.

I am thinking of carrying this and a quality color copy of our passports with us.