DenRUS vs RO

[kibutzer]

How do you decide which one? The ability to do custom tours appears similiar, heard some complaints about both so how to decide. We are very interested in seeing th Jewish life in Russia and want to make sure we get the to the best sites, not just allthe recommended tourist. How about providing a top ten must do for the two days and your recommendations.

 

Thanks

[dileep]

Most people that I talked to on our Baltics cruise were happy with the company they used - RO or Denrus. We know someone who made a short stop at a synagogue in St. Petersburg along with others in a group of 10. I don't think the others were Jewish.

 

If you do a private tour either company will customize as you want.

 

We used RO because there was already a group forming on our Roll Call and it was easy for us to join in. We were pleased with the service.

[Lattemom]

We used RO two years ago and will be using them again this July. We asked our guide to take us to the Synagogue. Our guide was pretty knowledgeable about the Jewish history. I do not believe there are a whole lot of Jewish sights, though. We had a small group of six...it was absolutely wonderful.

[VinTek]

Both RO and DenRus use freelance drivers and guides. We went with RO, and both our guide and driver had occasionally worked for DenRus as well. Since I've only used one service, I can't compare the two. But for the record, both our guide and driver stated emphatically that they preferred working for RO. There was a consensus between them that RO more strongly encouraged a team approach, whereas with DenRus, our driver sometimes had to work with a different guide on the 2nd day.

[Juliadlf]

How about providing a top ten must do for the two days and your recommendations.

Thanks

 

This link may help with your question.http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=256471

 

Iif you do a search on this board, you will find alot of information on both RO and Denrus and their tour guides.

 

We are also going to the Baltics this year and are just now getting quotes from each of the tour companies. Both companies appear to be very good and it's a shame we only have 2 days in port.

 

Julia

[Andee]

When we originally contacted both Denrus and RO, the prices and recommended itineraries were pretty much the same.

 

When we asked to personalize the itinerary, RO was extremely accomodating, and didn't raise the price at all. Denrus became positively snippy, and raised the price quite a bit.

 

We were very happy with our two days with RO. The Grand Choral Synagogue was on our list, and the guide was knowledgable about the history of the Jewish community in St. Petersburg.

[NancyIL]

When we originally contacted both Denrus and RO, the prices and recommended itineraries were pretty much the same.

 

When we asked to personalize the itinerary, RO was extremely accomodating, and didn't raise the price at all. Denrus became positively snippy, and raised the price quite a bit.

 

We were very happy with our two days with RO. The Grand Choral Synagogue was on our list, and the guide was knowledgable about the history of the Jewish community in St. Petersburg.

 

I got quotes from DenRus and Red October U.S. a year ago, and I had the opposite experience. The gentleman from RO U.S. gave me reasons why we shouldn't/couldn't take the hydrofoil back to St. Petersburg from Peterhof, and DenRus was very accommodating. We loved our DenRus tour, but I imagine we would've been happy with Red October, too.

[Host Anne]

We used DenRus last summer (NancyIL was on our ship) and like Nancy, we were extremely happy with Elena (our guide) and our two days with DenRus. We wouldn't hesitate to use DenRus again. I have read great things about RO as well so I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Talk to both of them and let them know what is important to you. Get a feel for which one you feel more comfortable with and go from there. This is a fabulous two days and you should enjoy every moment.

[dileep]

We used DenRus last summer (NancyIL was on our ship) and like Nancy, we were extremely happy with Elena (our guide) and our two days with DenRus. We wouldn't hesitate to use DenRus again. I have read great things about RO as well so I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Talk to both of them and let them know what is important to you. Get a feel for which one you feel more comfortable with and go from there. This is a fabulous two days and you should enjoy every moment.

 

well said!

[VinTek]

I got quotes from DenRus and Red October U.S. a year ago, and I had the opposite experience. The gentleman from RO U.S. gave me reasons why we shouldn't/couldn't take the hydrofoil back to St. Petersburg from Peterhof, and DenRus was very accommodating. We loved our DenRus tour, but I imagine we would've been happy with Red October, too.

 

There's a vast difference between dealing with Red October US and with the RO home office in St. Petersburg. If you decide on RO, deal directly with the home office!

[dbh62ark]

I think I am one of the few that has toured with both companies, and I have a strong preference for Denrus for reasons noted below. I toured with Red October in 2003 and with Denrus in 2005. I enjoyed my 2003 tour with Red October but felt the itinerary was lacking. That is no reflection on Red October because I didn't plan our 2003 itinerary and simply joined a group that had already formed, but I felt that I had missed a lot and made a determination that I would plan my own itinerary when we returned in 2005. After posting notices on our roll call board on this site, I ended up arranging three vans with a total of 25 passengers from our sailing, and I chose Denrus for superior itinerary and service.

 

Itinerary is first and foremost to me, so I made a list of sites to visit first. I began with a preference for Red October because I had a good tour with that company in 2003. After e-mailing Red October USA, I gave up on Mike Finn, the owner of that branch. He was not aware that I had previously visited St. Petersburg, and he misrepresented several things (lied) in his e-mail to me. It's a shame to think that if I had not known better, I would have ended up with another inferior tour in 2005. I immediately began corresponding with Olga at Red October Russia and found her to be honest and willing to discuss changes to their standard itinerary. However, I decided to book with Denrus because Red October either refused or discouraged several sites that were on my "must see" list such as the subway stations, canal boat ride, a walk on the Nevsky Prospect, and Hermitage Gold Room as well as other sites on my "wish list" such as the hydrofoil. And Denrus and I worked together to create a much better itinerary overall whereas Red October was not as good in that area. When I first began communicating with both companies and before I had a group of 25, I wanted to make arrangements for a back-up plan for our canal boat ride so that we would know which site we would get to see if the finicky Baltics weather did not accommodate, and Denrus came up with a much better back-up plan in addition to a much better itinerary overall and earned our business.

 

We enjoyed the Hermitage Gold Room. Red October would not arrange that addition in the Hermitage for groups less than 10 members; Denrus would arrange for as few as two passengers with only the extra costs charged by the Hermitage passed along to the passengers. (We had one van with seven passengers and one that had eight.) We were advised in 2005 that Red October will not take groups smaller than 20 on a canal boat ride, and we began our communications with only a group of only six. A few passengers on the boards found the canal boat ride to be boring, but we all thoroughly enjoyed it. The weather was glorious, and riding the canals was wonderful. We had an active itinerary, so it was nice to relax on the boat and just absorb the beauty of the city. The subway was fascinating. The stations are like palaces and I regretted that I did not get to see them on our first trip; it took 1/2 hour and was well worth the time. We were pleased with our choice to eat in the van to allow more time at the sites because that was our preference, but passengers who chose to eat at a Russian home were also pleased with their choice. If you have any other questions about itinerary or want to review our 2005 itinerary, feel free to e-mail me at dahillark @ yahoo.com.

 

Another issue I had with Red October is the Red October stores. If you don’t know what I mean, Red October takes you shopping in their stores that they own. Since time was so limited, I wanted to have a broad selection in shopping locations, and Denrus was fabulous in that area. All our bathroom breaks were at stores, and we saw everything we ever wanted to buy and more with great selection and great prices in the stores that Denrus used. That was much, much better than my experience with Red October stores in 2003, and I am thrilled with my 2005 purchases.

 

The price that Red October quoted me was 10% higher than the Denrus tour for the same itinerary. Also, Red October charges exorbitant and unreasonable mark-up for the photos fees, and Denrus’s fees for the same sites were $50 U.S. lower (we were shooting photo and video). However, I would not make a decision on tour guides based solely on price, and the Red October price overall, including the high photo/video profits, was only about 20% more than Denrus for my tour. Red October may have changed policies on photo/video mark-ups in 2006 due to some complaints, but be warned.

 

Be careful in your communications with the Russian tour companies to ensure that you know what you’re getting. After looking at the Red October itinerary closely, I realized that Red October initially planned to take us to one of the palaces but not inside. Since you have to drive to Peterhof and Catherine’s Palace, it’s pretty futile to go walk around the grounds and not go inside (there are several different choices of palaces at Peterhof) in my opinion.

 

In 2003, I had the tour guide Ludmilla with Red October that has been discussed on these boards and thought she was okay (I was just thrilled to be there and am very tolerant of other cultures) but preferred our Denrus tour guide Helen (pronounced ee-lee-ah-nah), the tall one with blonde hair whose husband makes custom shoes (there is more than one Helen). I consider both companies equal in that area too because the guides have been working for both companies. If you are particular (I’m not), you might want to ask for a guide by name.

 

Frankly, I'm surprised to hear anyone say that Denrus was snippy compared to Red October, and I haven’t heard that before on the boards. I wonder if that is a communication problem. Ilya at Denrus answers e-mails when Olga is unavailable, and his English is not as good. But he is very charming, so I can’t imagine anyone interpreting that as snippy. I’ve read repeatedly that just the opposite has been the experience of more passengers.

 

I encourage all to check with Denrus; many people just check with Red October because it is generally more well known, and most passengers from these boards that checked with both Denrus and Red October in 2005 chose to book with Denrus. I can definitely state that my own experience and the experience of many other board members in 2005 was that Red October was not flexible in making changes to their custom itinerary and Denrus was.

 

Things change frequently in the travel business, so I can only speak for my experiences at the time that I traveled. But I do encourage you to check all your options to find the best tour for you because you will learn a lot about the sites in the process. I think both companies offer good tours that are a much better alternative than ship's excursions, and there are other options out there too, so I hope your experience in St. Petersburg as much as we did.

 

Donna

[Juliadlf]

I have to say that both RO (Olga) and DenRus (Stan) have been very responsive in providing information.

 

Donna: Thanks for the good tip about checking the tour itinerary carefully about what you will actually go inside to visit versus walking around the outside.

 

Julia

[cadreamer]

Just to make the decision even more challenging, you may or may not know that there are licensed independent guides who will custom design a tour anywhere you want to visit. The guide meets you at the dock with a driver and car just like the bigger companies. You do not have to have a visa to tour with them. I have toured with Denrus(and Ludmilla), RO and an independent guide - Alla. Her web site is http://www.alla-tour.com and you can reach her at info@alla-tour.com. If you do a search you will find several of us who are singing her praises on cruisecritic. We first learned about her from a recommendation in the travel section of the LA Times. We can not say enough good about Alla. She is a rare find - very knowledgeable, organized, fluent in English and very personable. Since she is a small operator she is able to give very personalized sevice which is what we wanted and received. She is wonderful for all the usual sights and can do early admissions etc., plus I would highly reocmmend her for anyone who is returning to St. Petersburg (as we were) and has already seen the major sights and wants to go to less visited areas.

[Jill_b]

It is funny how two people communicating with the same person can come away with such strong and opposite opinions.

Just to chime in, because I have strong opinions also after lots of research and asking lots of questions. I wrote to both companies before choosing and after getting the facts, the choice was very clear cut for our small group of 3. I wanted a complete tour but price was a sensitive issue for us so I was careful noting the differences in what was included for a quote and what wasn't. Just like on the ship, it is the little things that add up so the bargain base price becomes pretty high if all expenses are included. Although we were quoted simialr prices, adding in the little gotcha's made DenRus's quote significantly lower. But then I was told about a different type of tour that was even lower called the Value Excursion, the Complete St Petersburg I booked it hoping it was a good deal. The 3 of us saved enough for me to buy a set of Lomonosov china. And to my great relief, the tour was great, with all included, not a penny extra except we tipped our guide and driver. The lunches were wondeful in really nice restaurants, camera fees were included.

I asked a million questions and all my answers came back quickly with lots of detail and interesting information not in my tour books. Even after I booked the tours on their web site, I kept asking questions about the city and Russia and it was like a history lesson.

 

One thing that bothered me about RO was the mandatory shopping in their store, according to posters here, who said all visitors had to go there even though it was not in the regular tour area or had a good selection. When I asked RO about this they wrote back and said only their own store was safe to shop in and they were just looking out for their customers. It soundy insincere but only later discovered it was a lie since there are beautiful stores all over St Petersburg. I could not figure out why they expected us to pay with our limited touring time to shop with them. I would rather spend the time we paid for seeing the city. Others here said the stop at their store was needed to pay for the tour. I paid on-line with in seconds and the card was biiled by DenRus's US office and a US bank, that was good enough for me. If I didn't get what I expected I had recourse with a US company.

 

I also requested a specific restaurant that someone here recommended and was told visitors could only go to one of a very short list of restaurants because all others were "dangerous" and said our trip would be ruined with sickness if we eat anywhere else. I also asked DenRus about restaurants and they explained how the health inspectors make monthly inspections and that almost any cafe and restaurant is safe and serves quality food but they had a list of places they had personally inspected or dined in so they could recommend but also suggested that almost any place we selected would probably be a good dining experience. After reading a food magazine that discussed raising stars in the culinary world, it gave high marks to the general quality of restaurants in St Petersburg, so what RO wrote to me was obvious a lie. I asked DenRus about this and they said many tour companies arrange for a kickback with a couple restaurants so they only take visitors to those.

 

I also wrote to both DenRus and RO about their canal cruise and got a response from R.O. that it can only be added if I found 20 people or more. This was quite a different response than I got from DenRus so I asked RO why only 20 or more, and they wrote that because all the boats are unsafe and dangerous except the one they use and it requires 20 or more and they are just looking out for us. This also turned out to be a lie, all the boats, according to posts here and from my searches, are certified as sea worthy with many inspections or they can not take passengers. Apparently this one boat owner that RO uses gives a kickback on twenty bookings.

 

All this added up to being a real difference in how the two companies value honesty and there was no question as to which I trusted more. If these little things are lied about for money what would be done if big issues were at stake? I notice both companies have supporters here but only one person had experience with both and she seems to be saying the same as I am, there is a basic difference in how they view their customers. Maybe it is a cultural thing since DenRus is an American company and knows what customers expect in the west. The reputation of Russian companies is that they only thing about the next Ruble and not long term relationships with customers. This might explain the differences.

 

I hung out with our guide as much as possible since my bother and his wife were having a sort of second honeymoon. I asked her if it was interesting being a guide and she was very enthusiastic saying it was a lot more fun than her winter job of lecturer at the university, and even more about working for DenRus. I asked, why, I read that all the guides are independent and she no, only DenRus had them employed with a salary and paid their taxes and health taxes for them but the others just called when she wasn't busy. She said it was problem for some guides that none of the other companies hire them as employees so they are not covered by the health system or have entries in their "work book" which I guess is a log of employment or something. This was during lunch so she did not have time to explain the work book

 

She also said the attmosphere is completely different with training sessions and get togethers and dinners even in the off season. She said all the guides want to work for DenRus bcause of how they are treated. She said some guides did not like how they disallowed guides from getting kickbacks from stores or restaurants because some guides cut deals with restaurants or stores to get a percentage of whatever was spent there. She said Denrus has the pick of guides because of their reputation. I can believe it, all this fit in with what I experienced.

It was also interesting that DenRus had only good things to say about R.O. and R.O. was very hostile and lied about DenRus when I asked for a reason to book with them over Denrus. This is my experience. If I can return next summer for a longer visit I have no doubt who I will ask to arrange it and I'll feel confident that I will get a good deal and was told the truth.

 

I suspect I would have enjoyed a tour with R.O. also but I will never know what I would have missed if it did not maximize RO profit. I would have seen only what benefited them most. Most of us are relying on our tour company to be honest and look out for our interests most but that might be naive in Russia.

But regardless of who you choose, you will love the city, we did.

Jill

[giraffenana]

Thanks, Jill. That is some good information and comparisons between Red October and Denrus. I have already been leaning toward Denrus, but now more so than before.

 

Joy

[Sea Day Cruiser]

Thanks Jill from me also. Some of us are trying to form a group to tour St. Petersburg with DenRus. We're on the June 24 Star Princess cruise and your post helped to reassure me about DenRus. We're also looking for 2 or 3 more to join the group so if anyone sees this post, is on the June 24 Star Princess, and wants to join us, just post here and we will send you the information.

[talyanka]

I completely agree with Cadreamer about Alla’s personal approach in organizing tours. I am planning St. Petersburg tour for the next summer. Alla’s response for my first request was very personal with some good suggestions and recommendation. You can feel from her answer that she is willing to work with you and accommodate all your interests to keep your happy. She doesn’t require a big group, on the contrary she suggested that 6- 8 people is the maximum reasonable group, otherwise you will lose personal contact with your guide.

Originally I sent my request to Denrus as well. But I found their response very standard without any hint of a personal approach and it hasn’t encouraged me for any further communication with them. So I decided to deal with Alla-tour and I am happy to hear that other people were happy with her tours. I am positive our tour will be successful.

From all posts on this board I am getting a feeling that RO and Denrus are already big, well established and pretty well known companies and now they can allow switching their priorities from personal dealing with small individual groups to less personal and more profitable value tours.

 

Just before you will make your final decisions try to contact Alla.

[dbh62ark]

 

From all posts on this board I am getting a feeling that RO and Denrus are already big, well established and pretty well known companies and now they can allow switching their priorities from personal dealing with small individual groups to less personal and more profitable value tours.

 

Just before you will make your final decisions try to contact Alla.

I disagree completely with this statement about Denrus, and I have not read posts to that affect. It's my understanding that Denrus is simply offering the value tours as an affordable option in St. Petersburg. I'm advised by Denrus that they are eager to provide the same excellent service that they have in years past.

 

For those recommending Alla, I would not hesitate to contact her myself personally because I read good things about her, but if she does not provide the group visa services that are provided by Denrus and Red October, passengers will need to obtain an individual visa to tour with her. This is an extra expense and requires extra time and inconvenience, so that distinction should be made when recommending her if she does not provide the group visa. One way or another, I think the distinction needs to be made.

 

Donna

[VinTek]

I'm rather surprised at what Jill has had to say about RO regarding limitations on how many persons could take the canal cruise. My guess is that she dealt with the US office rather than dealing directly with the home office in St. Petersburg. I'm also guessing that the US office is merely an agent and has very little flexibility in offering deviations to the standard tour.

 

We were a party of 4 and had no problems getting onto a canal cruise. My impression is that RO simply chartered a boat and combined our group with other groups they had that day. This may or may not have worked out to a cheaper fare for us.

 

Same goes for the Gold Room at the Hermitage (not mentioned in Jill's post, but mentioned elsewhere). We were combined with other groups to meet the Hermitage's minimum number of people and all was well. In all regards, RO was quite accomodating and willing to customize our tour to whatever degree we wished. We did not request a specific restaurant on the first day, and on the second day, we had lunch with a Russian family. As such, I cannot comment on the flexibility RO offered with regard to dining choices.

 

About the shops, I have little to say. I wasn't there to shop and could have cared less. What I saw of the RO store was quite adequate for me, but then again, I'm not all that picky about shopping. Pick up a keepsake or two and I'm ready to go. I had to pay for the tour anyway, so had no quibble with stopping at their store. In fact, I was rather impressed by the fact that I didn't have to pay for the tour until the 2nd day, which shows a certain degree of trust on their part. I know from reading other posts that if I'd dealt with the US office, I would have had to put down a deposit in advance.

 

Bottom line, you won't have enough time in a 2-day period to see everything. You'll have to sacrifice depth for breadth or vice-versa. Do your research on the city, know what you really want (for me, meeting a Russian family was non-negotiable), and pick the company that offers you what you want at the price you want. Ask *lots* of questions. How a tour company responds to those questions will tell you a lot about who you want to deal with.

[lina1]

Hi,

 

Our party of 8 is using Alla in May and we can't wait! She responds to all her e-mails very quickly (usually within 24 hours). In fact she was corresponding with me back and forth during the Russian holidays when all the other companies were closed for the week! She does provide the same group visa services as RO and Denrus and had absolutely no problem with our intense itinerary. I think she is a TRUE FIND.

 

Carole

[dbh62ark]

VinTek, I hate to be the one to tell you this, but my communications with Red October Russia were the same as Jill’s, and I read many similar reports last year. Red October Russia said that they would help my group join another group to ride the canal boats and tour the Gold Room if and only if they found another group to join us. That didn’t work for me because I wanted to know for sure that I could do what I wanted to do on a private tour. That’s what a private tour is all about because I could just go on a ship’s excursion if I wanted to have my options limited. Denrus assured us that we could go to any of the sites with as few as two passengers. And on a private tour, I don’t want to have my schedule revolve around meeting another group at an appointed place and time so that I can make the most of my limited time in port. I do agree with you that communicating with Red October USA is worthless and agree with your last paragraph.

 

But I think Jill’s point is that there is a difference in philosophy between the two companies. And I think the distinctions are of value to note for those choosing between the two companies even if they don’t want to go to the Gold Room or ride the canal boat or the hydrofoil because Denrus is clearly more flexible than Red October. When I’m paying for a private tour, I want to dictate my itinerary and not have to have limitations placed by the tour company for no good reason. My experience is that Denrus is flexible and accommodating with requests for deviations from the standard itinerary and Red October is not; most of the other posts that I read by passengers who checked with both companies report similar experiences. This is a service issue that affects what passengers will and will not see in St. Petersburg, and I want the best that I can buy for my travel dollars.

 

I also believe that Red October’s statements about the smaller boats not being safe is bunk. If Denrus’s boats were not safe with passengers being plunged into the cold waters off St. Petersburg, we would have heard about it by now. :)

 

I’ve read many reports from satisfied Red October customers, but most of those passengers indicate that they never checked with Denrus and my opinion is that they simply didn’t know what they were missing. Red October passengers are satisfied because there’s not much to dislike about St. Petersburg, but as of 2005, Denrus offered better itineraries and options for those who want to customize their tour. This thread was started by a passenger that wants to know the difference between the two companies and wants to deviate from the standard itinerary to add sites of Jewish interest. Having been on tours with both companies and completing extensive planning for a group that became large, I can tell you that there is no comparison and that Denrus is far superior to Red October.

 

Happy travels to all,

Donna

[virgenia]

Jill,

 

For the Value Excursion tour with DenRus, which we are leaning toward on our July visit to St. Petersburg--did they group you with other passengers from your same ship or did you work up a group yourself. There are just 2 of us at this point and I am wondering how they put the tour groups together and how big they are.

 

Ginny

[giraffenana]

Ginny - We are on your sailing, I believe. We are also leaning toward booking the Value Excursion with Denrus. We could join your group, and then we would have 4. Any others want to join.

 

Joy & Art

[cadreamer]

I am so glad to hear others share my opinion of Alla. I want to repeat what the above poster said - Alla definitely does provide the same group visas as RO and Denrus. That is another reason her services are highly recommended.

Thanks.

[giraffenana]

When I go to http://www.denrus.com how do I know if I am dealing with the U.S. office or the Russian office? Or is it only Red October that has offices in both places?

 

Joy