Alaska Lenses

[cruises42]

23 hours ago, peety3 said:

Technically, the answer is yes. Personally, my advice is don't do it. With an 18-400, the aperture is so small that adding a "teleconverter" makes the aperture effectively smaller still, and that impacts your photography in several ways: your camera probably won't be able to auto-focus, the viewfinder will be darker, and the images will be blurrier and have more distortion than without it. It's also possible that because the lens goes out to 18mm, it won't work.

 

Here's a great piece on why: LensRentals Blog: Teleconverters 101

 

Essentially, I think you're better off sticking with just that lens and cropping in post.

That's too bad. I was really hoping I could get more zoom without spending a lot more money. I have been cropping in the camera and the results are not clear pictures. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Maybe my original shot is not really in focus in the first place. An example, I'm zoomed in all the way ssuing the 18-400mm, then I cropped in my camera. Pretty awful pictures.

[peety3]

6 minutes ago, cruises42 said:

That's too bad. I was really hoping I could get more zoom without spending a lot more money. I have been cropping in the camera and the results are not clear pictures. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Maybe my original shot is not really in focus in the first place. An example, I'm zoomed in all the way ssuing the 18-400mm, then I cropped in my camera. Pretty awful pictures.

First, do you have a tripod? Even if you wouldn't use it normally, I'd highly recommend you do a few sample shots with a tripod and get a baseline of what your camera and that lens can do with a solid foundation.

 

Second, did you have Image Stabilization (or whatever Tamron) calls it turned on?

 

Third, what exposure mode were you using (Full-Auto, Program, Aperture, Shutter, Manual, or one of the presets), and if it was any mode where you set some of the variables, what settings did you choose for those?

 

Fourth, can you extract what the exposure values were for ISO, aperture, and shutter?

 

Fifth, what autofocus settings did you use? In particular, was the camera continuously focusing, or was it focusing once and then stopping, unless/until you took your finger off the button? Also, which focus point(s) were you using, and what part of the scene was that point(s) on when you took the picture?

 

One thing to keep in mind is that there's a common rule of thumb for minimum shutter speed to avoid camera shake, regardless of what minimums you might need to stop action. For a lens without IS/VR/OS/whatever stabilization thing they call it, you need 1/<effective focal length>. Because you have a "crop sensor" camera, the effective focal length is always what the lens tells you, times 1.5. So in this case with VR turned off and zoomed all the way in, you'd need 1/600th of a second under "normal" conditions to be able to handhold this lens for good pictures. Add in some wind, too much coffee, the peepee dance, whatever, and your odds go down unless you get a faster shutter speed than that. NOW, don't panic, as IS/VR/OS does make things better. For this particular lens, Tamron claims the VC is good for 2.5 stops of correction, so (trust me on this) the magic equation now becomes 5/600th or 1/120th of a second at 400mm (600mm effective on a Nikon DX camera) as the minimum shutter speed for a shake-free shot with VC. Note that 1/120th might not be fast enough to get stop-action crispness for college or pro sports, etc., but you'd at least get a background that wasn't shaky, etc.

 

Another thing I'm guessing here is that, regardless of what exposure mode you were using, you weren't focused on the ducks. There's a concept I mentioned earlier when I explained aperture, called depth of field. In theory, our camera only focuses on a paper-thin slice of the world, but in reality, due to optics and such, the focus has at least a little more depth than that. However, on a serious telephoto lens, this depth of field can be surprisingly thin whether you like it or not. I have a little app on my phone called "Dof Plus", but there are various ways to look this up, including freebie web pages like this DoF calculator where you can look this up yourself for various situations. I plugged Nikon D3400, 400mm lens, f/6.3, and 50' into my app (I'm terrible at guessing distance, but you don't want to know what the numbers are even closer), and it tells me that only 1'2" will be in focus, so from roughly 49' to 51' away is all that'll be in focus. It somewhat looks like the near part of the tree is in focus, and the ducks are perhaps 4-8' back, so if that's actually the case then there's at least one issue. You could crank the aperture up to f/22 and make the depth of field a "whopping" 4'1" thick, which still isn't much, and at f/22 you'd need to raise your ISO more than 8x to keep your shutter speed where it was at f/6.3, which you probably don't want to do. So you probably want to make sure you're paying close attention to focus settings AND making sure that you're focused on the one object that makes the most important statement in your image.

[cruises42]

23 hours ago, peety3 said:

First, do you have a tripod? Even if you wouldn't use it normally, I'd highly recommend you do a few sample shots with a tripod and get a baseline of what your camera and that lens can do with a solid foundation.

 

Second, did you have Image Stabilization (or whatever Tamron) calls it turned on?

 

Third, what exposure mode were you using (Full-Auto, Program, Aperture, Shutter, Manual, or one of the presets), and if it was any mode where you set some of the variables, what settings did you choose for those?

 

Fourth, can you extract what the exposure values were for ISO, aperture, and shutter?

 

Fifth, what autofocus settings did you use? In particular, was the camera continuously focusing, or was it focusing once and then stopping, unless/until you took your finger off the button? Also, which focus point(s) were you using, and what part of the scene was that point(s) on when you took the picture?

 

One thing to keep in mind is that there's a common rule of thumb for minimum shutter speed to avoid camera shake, regardless of what minimums you might need to stop action. For a lens without IS/VR/OS/whatever stabilization thing they call it, you need 1/<effective focal length>. Because you have a "crop sensor" camera, the effective focal length is always what the lens tells you, times 1.5. So in this case with VR turned off and zoomed all the way in, you'd need 1/600th of a second under "normal" conditions to be able to handhold this lens for good pictures. Add in some wind, too much coffee, the peepee dance, whatever, and your odds go down unless you get a faster shutter speed than that. NOW, don't panic, as IS/VR/OS does make things better. For this particular lens, Tamron claims the VC is good for 2.5 stops of correction, so (trust me on this) the magic equation now becomes 5/600th or 1/120th of a second at 400mm (600mm effective on a Nikon DX camera) as the minimum shutter speed for a shake-free shot with VC. Note that 1/120th might not be fast enough to get stop-action crispness for college or pro sports, etc., but you'd at least get a background that wasn't shaky, etc.

 

Another thing I'm guessing here is that, regardless of what exposure mode you were using, you weren't focused on the ducks. There's a concept I mentioned earlier when I explained aperture, called depth of field. In theory, our camera only focuses on a paper-thin slice of the world, but in reality, due to optics and such, the focus has at least a little more depth than that. However, on a serious telephoto lens, this depth of field can be surprisingly thin whether you like it or not. I have a little app on my phone called "Dof Plus", but there are various ways to look this up, including freebie web pages like this DoF calculator where you can look this up yourself for various situations. I plugged Nikon D3400, 400mm lens, f/6.3, and 50' into my app (I'm terrible at guessing distance, but you don't want to know what the numbers are even closer), and it tells me that only 1'2" will be in focus, so from roughly 49' to 51' away is all that'll be in focus. It somewhat looks like the near part of the tree is in focus, and the ducks are perhaps 4-8' back, so if that's actually the case then there's at least one issue. You could crank the aperture up to f/22 and make the depth of field a "whopping" 4'1" thick, which still isn't much, and at f/22 you'd need to raise your ISO more than 8x to keep your shutter speed where it was at f/6.3, which you probably don't want to do. So you probably want to make sure you're paying close attention to focus settings AND making sure that you're focused on the one object that makes the most important statement in your image.

Thanks again for all the information. Yes, I have a tripod but haven't used it. I usually take  pictures of wildlife (mostly birds) and don't have time to set it up, but I can try it as you suggested.
Yes, I had the VC on but can't tell if it even works.
Most of the time I use Sports mode because I never know when they are going to fly away. Focus mode is AF-A,  AF-area mode is Auto-area AF. I believe it keeps focusing. Other times I take a chance they won't fly and just use Automatic.

[GottaKnowWhen]

Two things to add to peety3’s thorough discussion.First, in my opinion based on your duck image, you have a lot of movement. Whether it is you moving the camera while shooting or the subjects moving I can’t be sure, but really work on practicing a steady hand. So, careful focus, take advantage of the deeper effective area of focus you get with smaller apertures. And do practice on the tripod with a good ball head. And by the way, if you do use the tripod, turn off the VR. VR and the like are said to cause image degradation if used on a tripod.

Stan

(Additional comment. I went back, re-read your earlier. You said you were cropping the image in the camera? So you are working with jpg rather than RAW images? I would expect you will have better final results if you use RAW or at least the max quality jpg you can get, and then do careful post processing on your computer at home. A higher quality out of focus shot will still be out of focus but better files can allow you some additional ways to salvage the marginal shots.)

Edited March 27, 2019 by GottaKnowWhen

[peety3]

1 hour ago, cruises42 said:

Thanks again for all the information. Yes, I have a tripod but haven't used it. I usually take  pictures of wildlife (mostly birds) and don't have time to set it up, but I can try it as you suggested.
Yes, I had the VC on but can't tell if it even works.
Most of the time I use Sports mode because I never know when they are going to fly away. Focus mode is AF-A,  AF-area mode is Auto-area AF. I believe it keeps focusing. Other times I take a chance they won't fly and just use Automatic.

My suspicion here is that your shutter speed may have been too slow, but more importantly you didn't have enough depth of field and you didn't have positive control of your focus. AF-area mode set to Auto-area AF probably went to the nearest <object> that was in the scope of one of the focus points, which in this case was the tree. Take control of AF point selection and land it on a duck, if you want the duck to be the focus of the image, and don't expect three ducks at different distances to all be in focus.

 

Long lenses are naturally going to give you thinner depth of field - it's just a "physics" (optics) thing. You have to shift your composition to a more "singular theme" approach. I realize that particular spot may not give you the option, but your shot might have been better if you got down to water level and shot straight out. By looking down on the water as you were, you end up with a lot in your image, and that's counter to the singular theme goal.

[cruises42]

23 hours ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

Two things to add to peety3’s thorough discussion.First, in my opinion based on your duck image, you have a lot of movement. Whether it is you moving the camera while shooting or the subjects moving I can’t be sure, but really work on practicing a steady hand. So, careful focus, take advantage of the deeper effective area of focus you get with smaller apertures. And do practice on the tripod with a good ball head. And by the way, if you do use the tripod, turn off the VR. VR and the like are said to cause image degradation if used on a tripod.

Stan

(Additional comment. I went back, re-read your earlier. You said you were cropping the image in the camera? So you are working with jpg rather than RAW images? I would expect you will have better final results if you use RAW or at least the max quality jpg you can get, and then do careful post processing on your computer at home. A higher quality out of focus shot will still be out of focus but better files can allow you some additional ways to salvage the marginal shots.)

Yes,  I do have a lot of movement. When I press the shutter button the camera moves. I just can't seem to keep it steady. Yes, jpg with fine image quality. I thought RAW was more complicated and I don't have any post processing software.

[cruises42]

22 hours ago, peety3 said:

My suspicion here is that your shutter speed may have been too slow, but more importantly you didn't have enough depth of field and you didn't have positive control of your focus. AF-area mode set to Auto-area AF probably went to the nearest <object> that was in the scope of one of the focus points, which in this case was the tree. Take control of AF point selection and land it on a duck, if you want the duck to be the focus of the image, and don't expect three ducks at different distances to all be in focus.

 

Long lenses are naturally going to give you thinner depth of field - it's just a "physics" (optics) thing. You have to shift your composition to a more "singular theme" approach. I realize that particular spot may not give you the option, but your shot might have been better if you got down to water level and shot straight out. By looking down on the water as you were, you end up with a lot in your image, and that's counter to the singular theme goal.

Using sport mode I don't control shutter speed. Focus mode: AF-A Auto-servo AF or Manual focus are my only choices, AF-area mode is set to Dynamic-area AF. My other choices are Single-point AF, 3D-tracking or auto area. You think I should set it to single-point? If I don't use sport mode what do you suggest and what settings?

[peety3]

11 hours ago, cruises42 said:

Using sport mode I don't control shutter speed. Focus mode: AF-A Auto-servo AF or Manual focus are my only choices, AF-area mode is set to Dynamic-area AF. My other choices are Single-point AF, 3D-tracking or auto area. You think I should set it to single-point? If I don't use sport mode what do you suggest and what settings?

I suspect that out beyond maybe 200-250mm, (parts of) sport mode isn't "good enough" for your needs here. You definitely want auto-servo AF. AF area mode is probably best to single point, and you should explore all the options for controlling that point and pick the one that works best for you. I know on all of our Canon cameras, there's a joystick at my right thumb that can be used to move the point around. (Or just pick the center point, shoot with it, and crop creatively later.)

 

Honestly, I think you'd be great with aperture priority. Set aperture to f/6.3 or perhaps f/8. Raise your ISO enough, probably at least 400 and sometimes higher, even in bright light, to keep the shutter speed at or faster than 1/250th. Auto-servo AF, single point. Set white balance to daylight/shade/cloudy based on what you're under. Drive mode either single shot or continuous shooting, depending on your preferences. That's the "six settings that matter, according to Pete" (aperture, ISO, shutter, WB, drive mode, AF) - though there is an optional seventh, "artificial light", but that's a whole 'nother topic.

[cruises42]

11 hours ago, peety3 said:

I suspect that out beyond maybe 200-250mm, (parts of) sport mode isn't "good enough" for your needs here. You definitely want auto-servo AF. AF area mode is probably best to single point, and you should explore all the options for controlling that point and pick the one that works best for you. I know on all of our Canon cameras, there's a joystick at my right thumb that can be used to move the point around. (Or just pick the center point, shoot with it, and crop creatively later.)

 

Honestly, I think you'd be great with aperture priority. Set aperture to f/6.3 or perhaps f/8. Raise your ISO enough, probably at least 400 and sometimes higher, even in bright light, to keep the shutter speed at or faster than 1/250th. Auto-servo AF, single point. Set white balance to daylight/shade/cloudy based on what you're under. Drive mode either single shot or continuous shooting, depending on your preferences. That's the "six settings that matter, according to Pete" (aperture, ISO, shutter, WB, drive mode, AF) - though there is an optional seventh, "artificial light", but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Thanks, I'll give these a try.