Injured while on an Excursion

[Aodhan]

Hi All,

I know this has to be a topic, but I'm not sure what search words to use to get the right posts.  :)  My mother fell on an Excursion in Jamaica and severely fractured her left shoulder.  I won't post the details because I'm not sure of guidelines, etc, but it's been about 5 months and it's becoming clear from the PT that she will likely not regain her full use of her  arm.   We are going through all the steps with AON the RCC Travel Insurance company, though it's taken, because of many factors,  until recently to get all the paperwork together.  We traveled as a party of six, my brother and wife, my wife and I, and my parents.  My dad is 84 and in fragile health (COPD)and my mom is his care giver.  She is 80, but in great health and still works 25 hours a week (not now - she is on disability).   Ok - the key is, it's looking like my mom will not be able to return to work, or that work, either in the near future or possibly at all and is also impacted with my dad's care.  None of this would bring me to the point of this question except that the accident occurred because we believe a tour operator actively contributed to her fall.   Now that we are concerned that she will not make a full recovery we think we need to hire some kind of counsel to address the issue.   The Royal Caribbean "adjuster" told me that the Tour Operator was the liable party (I've heard this before), but we believe because the Operator actively interfered with my mothers safety, which led to her fall, that RCC is liable for the quality and training of the Operators.   How do I proceed?  I understand that we have six months to make a claim - that will be April 3rd or so.   Thank you.  I hope this is an appropriate post and question.

[Clarea]

Welcome to the posting side of Cruise Critic.

 

Do you have a family attorney that could advise you?

[rt1092]

3 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

Hi All,

I know this has to be a topic, but I'm not sure what search words to use to get the right posts.  🙂 My mother fell on an Excursion in Jamaica and severely fractured her left shoulder.  I won't post the details because I'm not sure of guidelines, etc, but it's been about 5 months and it's becoming clear from the PT that she will likely not regain her full use of her  arm.   We are going through all the steps with AON the RCC Travel Insurance company, though it's taken, because of many factors,  until recently to get all the paperwork together.  We traveled as a party of six, my brother and wife, my wife and I, and my parents.  My dad is 84 and in fragile health (COPD)and my mom is his care giver.  She is 80, but in great health and still works 25 hours a week (not now - she is on disability).   Ok - the key is, it's looking like my mom will not be able to return to work, or that work, either in the near future or possibly at all and is also impacted with my dad's care.  None of this would bring me to the point of this question except that the accident occurred because we believe a tour operator actively contributed to her fall.   Now that we are concerned that she will not make a full recovery we think we need to hire some kind of counsel to address the issue.   The Royal Caribbean "adjuster" told me that the Tour Operator was the liable party (I've heard this before), but we believe because the Operator actively interfered with my mothers safety, which led to her fall, that RCC is liable for the quality and training of the Operators.   How do I proceed?  I understand that we have six months to make a claim - that will be April 3rd or so.   Thank you.  I hope this is an appropriate post and question.

You will be fighting an uphill battle. The form that almost everyone flashes through to get your set sail pass. Basically says you give up your right to sue Royal. Plus add the fact that it happened in a foreign country. You would have to go there to fight it. Your travel insurance should pay most of the medical bills (out of the country) her medicare should pick up the rest.  If you are looking to "go after" Royal you need an admiralty law firm not an average TV commercial ambulance chaser. 

[Medic5emt]

https://www.facebook.com/cruiselawnews/

[time4u2go]

46 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

Welcome to the posting side of Cruise Critic.

 

Do you have a family attorney that could advise you?

I agree.  You're asking for legal advice on a public anonymous message board...probably not the best course of action.

[fredflint]

So first off the tour operators are contracted with RCCL, unless you could show a  pattern of issues with that Tour operator they do not have any liability as they did not know about any issue with the Tour Operator working in an unsafe manner.

The accident happened in Jamaica, so more than likely that is where the action against the tour operator would have to take place.

If you read the agreement that you agreed to when taking he tour there is a good chance there is verbage in their about liability in case of an accident.

 

Simply pu you can contact some attorneys but willing to bet they are going to listen to you, ask if you have a video of the Tour operator pushing your Mother or something like that, they will not take the case.  You could hire a lawyer and pay several thousands of dollars and never even get to court.

[leisuretraveler223]

1 minute ago, fredflint said:

So first off the tour operators are contracted with RCCL, unless you could show a  pattern of issues with that Tour operator they do not have any liability as they did not know about any issue with the Tour Operator working in an unsafe manner.

The accident happened in Jamaica, so more than likely that is where the action against the tour operator would have to take place.

If you read the agreement that you agreed to when taking he tour there is a good chance there is verbage in their about liability in case of an accident.

 

Simply pu you can contact some attorneys but willing to bet they are going to listen to you, ask if you have a video of the Tour operator pushing your Mother or something like that, they will not take the case.  You could hire a lawyer and pay several thousands of dollars and never even get to court.

 

People opined that asking for legal advice on a cruise board might not be the best approach, but here it comes anyhow!

[DfDinLA]

The tour operator is in Jamaica and the injury occurred in Jamaica.  I would ask my attorney to do some research and recommend a personal injury attorney in Jamaica.  

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, Host Clarea said:

Welcome to the posting side of Cruise Critic.

 

Do you have a family attorney that could advise you?

Actually, not currently.  I understand that it's a different set of rules for cruise ships and that claims apparently need to be made out of specific jurisdictions, possibly Florida.  I'm not seeking legal advice, as much as seeking direction to find out what types of legal avenues people have utilized to protect themselves from long term losses they've experienced.   We are not looking to punish or make anything off the cruise line - it's just a matter of financial expedience effecting my parents and the situation was created by an individual contracted by the line.

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, rt1092 said:

You will be fighting an uphill battle. The form that almost everyone flashes through to get your set sail pass. Basically says you give up your right to sue Royal. Plus add the fact that it happened in a foreign country. You would have to go there to fight it. Your travel insurance should pay most of the medical bills (out of the country) her medicare should pick up the rest.  If you are looking to "go after" Royal you need an admiralty law firm not an average TV commercial ambulance chaser. 

 

We are more concerned about her possibly not being able to return to work or care for my dad.   The medical bills and the expenses from the trip should be covered fine.  We are not looking to "go after" RCC: we've all cruised with them from 5-10 times depending on which couple, and the six of us at least 4 times and we want to again this Spring hopefully. It's more a matter of how do we offset a possible irrecoverable loss so as to keep their living conditions as they were before the accident.

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, Medic5emt said:

https://www.facebook.com/cruiselawnews/

 

Thank you!

 

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

I agree.  You're asking for legal advice on a public anonymous message board...probably not the best course of action.

 

I understand your perspective.  I'm in health care and have been caregiver to numerous people injured in accidents and some involved in suits.  Please be assured, I'm not looking for legal advice: I'm looking for guidance to learn more about situations like this, what others have done, and where I can learn more beyond just the Google.  It seems that this community might have more first hand knowledge on these situations than just the sensational stuff I find with search engines. 🙂

[kalliekae]

I'm just curious if the injury occurred at Dunn River Falls. I was injured there and ended up in a wheel chair for the rest of the cruise because I tore ligaments in my foot. We were required by the tour operator to hold hands while climbing the falls and one man fell pulling me down on the rocks. I remember that the excursion specifically stated that you do this at your own risk. It never occurred to me to go after the cruise line or the tour operator. I was just sorry I went on the excursion and it was a lesson learned to be more diligent in picking excursions. However, I was not disabled as your relative appears to be. I don't think you'll be able to find an attorney to take on this case, but please come back and let us know what happens. I am sorry for the pain your relative has suffered.

 

 

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, fredflint said:

So first off the tour operators are contracted with RCCL, unless you could show a  pattern of issues with that Tour operator they do not have any liability as they did not know about any issue with the Tour Operator working in an unsafe manner.

The accident happened in Jamaica, so more than likely that is where the action against the tour operator would have to take place.

If you read the agreement that you agreed to when taking he tour there is a good chance there is verbage in their about liability in case of an accident.

 

Simply pu you can contact some attorneys but willing to bet they are going to listen to you, ask if you have a video of the Tour operator pushing your Mother or something like that, they will not take the case.  You could hire a lawyer and pay several thousands of dollars and never even get to court.

 

Thank you.  Some good thoughts here.   My mother made her claim verbally to me at the time of the accident and also in the Sick Bay of the ship they asked her to complete a statement and myself a witness statement.  Both of those reflect contemporaneously her claim of what happened.   I understand about waivers, etc, and standards of proof.   These are thoughts to consider.

[xpcdoojk]

1 hour ago, Medic5emt said:

https://www.facebook.com/cruiselawnews/

 

This is not a good bit of advice.

 

Good lord.

 

jc

[Starry Eyes]

3 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

We are more concerned about her possibly not being able to return to work or care for my dad.   The medical bills and the expenses from the trip should be covered fine.  We are not looking to "go after" RCC: we've all cruised with them from 5-10 times depending on which couple, and the six of us at least 4 times and we want to again this Spring hopefully. It's more a matter of how do we offset a possible irrecoverable loss so as to keep their living conditions as they were before the accident.

I understand your point of view, but I hope you understand the obvious opposite point of view.  Your elderly parent had an accident on an excursion with a tour contractor.  You feel that tour contractor made an error, so logically (and by cruise contract) your mother should seek compensation from that tour operator.  Instead you seem to be skipping over that option and trying to, indeed, “go after” compensation from the cruise line.

 

By all means contact a lawyer and see what they say.  As the cruiseline has lawyers of their own draw up the contracts, do not be surprised if the liability does indeed lie with the tour operator.  Best wishes to your parents.

[Aodhan]

1 hour ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

People opined that asking for legal advice on a cruise board might not be the best approach, but here it comes anyhow!

🙂  I'm grateful.  Fortunately I'm experienced enough with personal injury from a health care providers perspective and also from some general liability viewpoints.   I'm looking for discussion and will take all solicited viewpoints as they are all grist for the mill right now.  Ultimately I'm trying to find out if working with the cruise line would work (apparently not) or if utilizing an attorney has been shown to be effective in helping with issues like ours.  Maybe not, but I'll take all opinions.

 

[Aodhan]

Just now, xpcdoojk said:

 

This is not a good bit of advice.

 

Good lord.

 

jc

 

Also helpful.

[Joebucks]

I am sorry to hear she got injured. If you are really seeking advice, you may want to give more details. Whenever I see claims with vague details, it usually throws up a red flag that someone is trying to find a payout. There are many things to consider. What liability does the tour operator hold? Good luck trying to bring a suit to one in Jamaica. Any larger one that could even afford to pay if order to is very likely going to have disclaimers waiving them of any liability.

[xpcdoojk]

It is great advice if you want a glory hogging sensationalist lawyer to go after a cruise line.  I am not sure any of their plaintiffs are getting any significant decisions, but they probably have a really great condo on the beach in Miami.

 

jc

[Aodhan]

5 minutes ago, kalliekae said:

I'm just curious if the injury occurred at Dunn River Falls. I was injured there and ended up in a wheel chair for the rest of the cruise because I tore ligaments in my foot. We were required by the tour operator to hold hands while climbing the falls and one man fell pulling me down on the rocks. I remember that the excursion specifically stated that you do this at your own risk. It never occurred to me to go after the cruise line or the tour operator. I was just sorry I went on the excursion and it was a lesson learned to be more diligent in picking excursions. However, I was not disabled as your relative appears to be. I don't think you'll be able to find an attorney to take on this case, but please come back and let us know what happens. I am sorry for the pain your relative has suffered.

 

 

It was not.  My mother was walking up an uneven, slippery slope at the end of the excursion when an operator distracted her when he popped in front of her requesting/reminding her to tip.  Distracted and startled she lost her footing and fell.  It was all a strange series of events but if he'd helped her up the slope instead, it might be a different situation.  (btw: we have no issue about tips.  We are actually over tippers most likely in everything we do - so it wasn't about the request, it was that the request was done at an inappropriate time and way and had consequences.)

[BND]

10 minutes ago, Aodhan said:

 

Also helpful.

The link is to a known ambulance chaser and cruise hating lawyer.  That's what the poster meant.  You'll find lots of negative opinions of  cruise law news on CC.

[ONECRUISER]

2 minutes ago, BND said:

The link is to a known ambulance chaser and cruise hating lawyer.  That's what the poster meant.  You'll find lots of negative opinions of  cruise law news on CC.

The Michael Avenatti, of Cruise Lawyers

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Medic5emt said:

https://www.facebook.com/cruiselawnews/

Worst advice yet 

[Aodhan]

10 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I understand your point of view, but I hope you understand the obvious opposite point of view.  Your elderly parent had an accident on an excursion with a tour contractor.  You feel that tour contractor made an error, so logically (and by cruise contract) your mother should seek compensation from that tour operator.  Instead you seem to be skipping over that option and trying to, indeed, “go after” compensation from the cruise line.

 

By all means contact a lawyer and see what they say.  As the cruiseline has lawyers of their own draw up the contracts, do not be surprised if the liability does indeed lie with the tour operator.  Best wishes to your parents.

 

I'm in healthcare (chiropractic (whatever folks think of that 🙂 )), but some of what is dealt with in liability is the concept of respondeat superior, and responsible parties can't sign assign their ultimate responsibility to another party.   While we had a contract with the tour operator, we also had one with RCC.    It may completely be as you say - the understanding of which is the purpose of all these posts! 

 

Thanks for your thoughts and best wishes!