Cancelling a cruise with P&O

[Tommart]

There's an interesting clause tucked away in the P&O terms and conditions:

 

CANCELLATION BY THE GUEST

38. The Guest has the right to cancel the Contract prior to commencement of the Package
without paying any cancellation charge in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary
circumstances significantly affecting the performance of the Contract. In such circumstances the
Guest shall be entitled to a full refund of all monies paid, but shall not be entitled to additional
compensation. 

 

And there's some comment on it here, funnily enough in relation to the Amsterdam Ijmuiden switch which has upset so many customers.

 

https://tomscruiseblog.com/2019/04/19/cancellation-charges-unreasonable/

 

 

Has anybody invoked this clause successfully, or are cancellations always done under this part of the clause, with lost deposits etc:

 

The Guest may cancel the Contract at any time prior to the commencement of the Package via
their travel agent or, for Guests who have booked direct, by calling our Reservations Department,
but if the cancellation is not as a result of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances
significantly affecting the performance of the Contract, in that event P&O Cruises shall be entitled
to levy a cancellation charge as a percentage of the price paid in accordance with the following
scales

 

 

 

 

[tring]

I would suggest the important wording is 'significantly affecting'  i.e. is it a 'significant change' regards our package travel regulations.  I am not convinced it would be, the wording just seems to be just mentioning your legal rights if there is a 'significant change' and a change for one port has never been a significant change of a cruise.

[Tommart]

20 minutes ago, tring said:

I would suggest the important wording is 'significantly affecting'  i.e. is it a 'significant change' regards our package travel regulations.  I am not convinced it would be, the wording just seems to be just mentioning your legal rights if there is a 'significant change' and a change for one port has never been a significant change of a cruise.

I'm inclined to agree - though whether it's 'significant' must depend on the significance of that one port in relation to all the others.

 

In the case of, say, Lisbon, on a 12 nighter with 5 ports, each for one day, probably not significant.

 

But Amsterdam tends to be for two days, usually making up the whole or a very significant part of the cruise in terms of port days - almost certainly 'significant' therefore, whatever P&O might choose to pretend.

 

Has anyone tested their resolve on that one yet?

[the english lady]

Docco was going to take them to the small claims court over the Amsterdam thing. However I am not sure when he was sailing, or if he has sailed yet, or if he is going ahead with it even.

Somebody asked on one of the FB pages how the transfers were going now. They seem to be going ok, after the problems with the first few ones.

[tring]

We had two brilliant days docked centrally in Amsterdam on Boudicca.  You could always jump ship/cruise line 🙂

 

[Tommart]

10 minutes ago, tring said:

We had two brilliant days docked centrally in Amsterdam on Boudicca.  You could always jump ship/cruise line 🙂

 

That's interesting - so Fred didn't scrap its Amsterdam visits in favour of Ijmuiden then to save itself some cash, like P&O?

 

What's Fred Olsen like these days? Is it less Skegness/Blackpool/Butlins than P&O's become?

[tring]

18 minutes ago, Tom Marton said:

That's interesting - so Fred didn't scrap its Amsterdam visits in favour of Ijmuiden then to save itself some cash, like P&O?

 

What's Fred Olsen like these days? Is it less Skegness/Blackpool/Butlins than P&O's become?

 

That 7 night cruise was great because we were in port most of the time - Antwerp and Amsterdam overnight and also days in Ghent and Rotterdam.  Fred ships all done up to what they were, but still vibrate if you are low down and to the back, so would avoid that location.  Food and service far better than P&O IMO and overall the clientelle are more our sort of people - older, but with more manners than some we have encountered on P&O in more recent years.  More restrictions re set sitting for dinner (unless you use the self service) though and less spending opportunites (take the latter comment as you wish 🙂 ).

 

To be honest we only cruise for the destinations and Fred are better than P&O at that.  CMV have itineraries that are more appealing still, but tried it once and not quick to return, but having another 11 night trial around UK next year from our local port of Liverpool.

 

My thoughts re docking centrally in Amsterdam is what the cruise company can make out of it.  With Fred's older clientelle, they will book more trips and also they sell their cruises on getting closer to the port (and charge more for it).  We will see what he does with newly released itineraries though.

Edited May 13, 2019 by tring

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Tom Marton said:

That's interesting - so Fred didn't scrap its Amsterdam visits in favour of Ijmuiden then to save itself some cash, like P&O?

 

What's Fred Olsen like these days? Is it less Skegness/Blackpool/Butlins than P&O's become?

You seem to have been taken by the myth of the change made by P&O and a number of other cruise lines to not dock in Amsterdam as being driven by cost saving. This is false as the cost of coaches takes up most of not all of the savings. And what is this about Skegness Blackpool and Butlins. Again you seem to be taking some of the anti P&O brigade at face value. 

 

Only you can can decide what a ship is like and that can only be done by you trying it.

[tring]

19 hours ago, Tom Marton said:

I'm inclined to agree - though whether it's 'significant' must depend on the significance of that one port in relation to all the others.

 

But Amsterdam tends to be for two days, usually making up the whole or a very significant part of the cruise in terms of port days - almost certainly 'significant' therefore, whatever P&O might choose to pretend.

 

 

That is a point TBH I have a close relative with a background in consumer protection and he thought it would be a significant change, especially as the change was not unavoidable.  The problem now though is that this needs to be mentioned reasonable soon after the change.  If the change has been accepted, then it has been accepted as it is.

 

[pete14]

1 hour ago, tring said:

 

That is a point TBH I have a close relative with a background in consumer protection and he thought it would be a significant change, especially as the change was not unavoidable.  The problem now though is that this needs to be mentioned reasonable soon after the change.  If the change has been accepted, then it has been accepted as it is.

 

But as P&O have only cited operational reasons for why they didn’t dock in Amsterdam, how does any outsider know whether they were unavoidable or not. Everything else is guesswork and supposition (which may possibly be accurate) but as Dai and many others have said previously, having to provide 20+ shuttle buses for 2 days is a very expensive way of ‘cost cutting’.

[Tommart]

4 hours ago, daiB said:

You seem to have been taken by the myth of the change made by P&O and a number of other cruise lines to not dock in Amsterdam as being driven by cost saving. This is false as the cost of coaches takes up most of not all of the savings. And what is this about Skegness Blackpool and Butlins. Again you seem to be taking some of the anti P&O brigade at face value. 

 

Only you can can decide what a ship is like and that can only be done by you trying it.

Of course it was done for cost-saving reasons? Why else do Carnival companies do anything? And why are they being so ridiculously devious and evasive about the reasons, if it's not that?

 

It's not just the cost of the coaches (though bear in mind Carnival have a formidable negotiating position, and it's only the passengers actually travelling to pay for, as against the entire passenger list for the tourist tax) - it's a long-term stand-off between Carnival and Amsterdam, and they're looking at the long-term costs.

 

And the other comments?  Based not just on comments here, it's just a forum with some pretty entrenched viewpoints, but discussions with friends who used to cruise regularly with P&O but won't now because, they say, it's gone too far downmarket in their attempt to fill the very large number of cabins they now have to sell. Pile it high and sell it cheap used to be Jack Cohen's slogan in the early days of Tesco, and from what I hear that's now the way P&O operates.

 

I was just wondering if Fred Olsen's any better.

 

 

[daiB]

3 minutes ago, Tom Marton said:

Of course it was done for cost-saving reasons? Why else do Carnival companies do anything? And why are they being so ridiculously devious and evasive about the reasons, if it's not that?

 

It's not just the cost of the coaches (though bear in mind Carnival have a formidable negotiating position, and it's only the passengers actually travelling to pay for, as against the entire passenger list for the tourist tax) - it's a long-term stand-off between Carnival and Amsterdam, and they're looking at the long-term costs.

 

And the other comments?  Based not just on comments here, it's just a forum with some pretty entrenched viewpoints, but discussions with friends who used to cruise regularly with P&O but won't now because, they say, it's gone too far downmarket in their attempt to fill the very large number of cabins they now have to sell. Pile it high and sell it cheap used to be Jack Cohen's slogan in the early days of Tesco, and from what I hear that's now the way P&O operates.

 

I was just wondering if Fred Olsen's any better.

 

 

Don’t agree at all that it is cost. The simple solution would simply be to pass on the Tax to the customer. Remember it is a tax on tourists not cruise ships. 

 

If you are happy to take second hand reports from the Oh it not like it used to be lobby then go on. You are the one missing out. There are vast numbers of people  reporting that they have had great cruises on P&O on other forums. So they must be wrong??? You clearly have your mind set so why ask the question on the P&O page should you not ask on the Fred page?

[Bazrat]

1 hour ago, Tom Marton said:



And the other comments?  Based not just on comments here, it's just a forum with some pretty entrenched viewpoints, but discussions with friends who used to cruise regularly with P&O but won't now because, they say, it's gone too far downmarket in their attempt to fill the very large number of cabins they now have to sell. Pile it high and sell it cheap used to be Jack Cohen's slogan in the early days of Tesco, and from what I hear that's now the way P&O operates.

 

I was just wondering if Fred Olsen's any better.

 

hi there i cannot speak from first hand experience but my wife's friends laughed at your friends comments about gone downmarket,between them they have close on sixty years cruising and P&O is there first choice every time so from my point of view is if you don't like P&O use another cruise line its your money.

 

[Tommart]

2 hours ago, daiB said:

Don’t agree at all that it is cost. The simple solution would simply be to pass on the Tax to the customer. Remember it is a tax on tourists not cruise ships. 

 

If you are happy to take second hand reports from the Oh it not like it used to be lobby then go on. You are the one missing out. There are vast numbers of people  reporting that they have had great cruises on P&O on other forums. So they must be wrong??? You clearly have your mind set so why ask the question on the P&O page should you not ask on the Fred page?

I doubt they could pass it on to customers - it would have to amount to more than 2% of the price paid to allow that, and in most cases it would be irrecoverable.

 

I'm genuinely open minded about P&O, but the reports about poor experiences are becoming significant. Maybe I should ask about P&O on the Fred page - good idea.  Let's get a bit of balance.

[pete14]

13 hours ago, Tom Marton said:

 

I'm genuinely open minded about P&O, but the reports about poor experiences are becoming significant. Maybe I should ask about P&O on the Fred page - good idea.  Let's get a bit of balance.

I think this thread is quite balanced. I agree that people are disagreeing with you but they are speaking from their own experience, not relying on the anecdotes from others. 

 

You started this thread with an anti - P&O agenda about cancellations policy. I don’t know whether you have had a bad experience with cancelling a cruise, which may explain why you started the thread or whether you are just trying to make a point (one that has been made before). Such an opening post invites other posters to put the other side of the story from their own experiences. This provides balance and I don’t suppose starting an identical thread about Fred Olsen on the Fred Olsen site will end up any different.

[Harry Peterson]

19 minutes ago, pete14 said:

You started this thread with an anti - P&O agenda about cancellations policy. 

Could you point out the 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post please?

Edited May 14, 2019 by docco

[Bazrat]

37 minutes ago, docco said:

Could you point out the 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post please?

The post itself as been discussed at length on other threads so seams rather pointless rehashing it,than later on he goes on to mention  FO as an alternative which as far as I know all information about them is available if you search.

docco you are the expert on cancelling cruises 3 if I remember correctly.

[pete14]

2 hours ago, docco said:

Could you point out the 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post please?

The thread was started for no apparent reason - OP does not mention any attempt to cancel a cruise. ‘tucked away in the P&O terms and conditions relates it to P&O and ‘tucked away’ can be interpreted as being hidden away in the hope that no-one will see it. Also mention to the Amsterdam / Ijmuiden switch ‘which has upset so many customers.’ 

 

This is reinforced by allegation that Amsterdam switch is to save money and a reference stating P&O has become on the same level as Skegness, Blackpool, Butlins followed by suggested alternative offered by Fred Olsen (who from experience are not like Skegness, Blackpool and Butlins either).

 

Only my interpretation and not fact but provided it is offered as interpretation and not fact, I have every right to post it.

[Harry Peterson]

2 hours ago, docco said:

Could you point out the 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post please?

 

8 minutes ago, pete14 said:

The thread was started for no apparent reason - OP does not mention any attempt to cancel a cruise. ‘tucked away in the P&O terms and conditions relates it to P&O and ‘tucked away’ can be interpreted as being hidden away in the hope that no-one will see it. Also mention to the Amsterdam / Ijmuiden switch ‘which has upset so many customers.’ 

 

This is reinforced by allegation that Amsterdam switch is to save money and a reference stating P&O has become on the same level as Skegness, Blackpool, Butlins followed by suggested alternative offered by Fred Olsen (who from experience are not like Skegness, Blackpool and Butlins either).

 

Only my interpretation and not fact but provided it is offered as interpretation and not fact, I have every right to post it.

Of course you do - but to be fair to him there was no 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post, was there?

 

Another example of a small number of people in this forum attacking anyone who makes the faintest criticism of P&O then.

[pete14]

23 minutes ago, docco said:

 

Of course you do - but to be fair to him there was no 'anti-P&O agenda' in the opening post, was there?

 

Another example of a small number of people in this forum attacking anyone who makes the faintest criticism of P&O then.

Your interpretation. Mine is different. We both have the right to post different interpretations provided they are reasoned and valid which in this instance would be a reasonable conclusion. 

[the english lady]

Never cancelled a cruise, have moved them..to tie in with the op start thread . We also travelled with Fred last year. They have done the ships up. However..you are starting off we smaller older ships with their own problems. The owner? has been very open about them raising their prices quite a lot. His argument was that their faithful following would either cruise less often, or downgrade from the sort of cabin they normally have. It is more traditional in that i dont think any of their ships have freedom dining..its all set dining.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

7 hours ago, pete14 said:

Your interpretation. Mine is different. We both have the right to post different interpretations provided they are reasoned and valid which in this instance would be a reasonable conclusion. 

 

Our post do not have to be reasoned or valid.

 

Technically we have no right to post.  We depend on the generosity of TripAdvisor. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

[Bazrat]

6 minutes ago, stephen@stoneyard.co.uk said:

 

Our post do not have to be reasoned or valid.

 

Technically we have no right to post.  We depend on the generosity of TripAdvisor. 

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

I think your incorrect in you assessment if it is not reasoned or valid it becomes meaningless.

There is no generosity from the part of trip advisor they exist to make money from us,they just give us the platform to give our point of view on any relevant post.

 

wifes evening attire as arrived pressure now lifted,new suitcases ready and just about to open my bottle of Captains  Morgan’s for practice for when we’re on the high seas.

[stephen@stoneyard.co.uk]

1 hour ago, Bazrat said:

I think your incorrect in you assessment if it is not reasoned or valid it becomes meaningless.

There is no generosity from the part of trip advisor they exist to make money from us,they just give us the platform to give our point of view on any relevant post.

 

wifes evening attire as arrived pressure now lifted,new suitcases ready and just about to open my bottle of Captains  Morgan’s for practice for when we’re on the high seas.

 

Sorry my tongue was slightly in my cheek

 

In this modern age I do worry that meaning does not depend on reason or validity.  I better stop before I get political. I totally agree with TripAdvisor motivation. 

 

Enjoy Captain Morgan's

 

Best wishes, Stephen. 

[purplesea]

I decided to cancel a cruise as I was going to be made redundant and lost my deposit.  I did query the  "in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances" but got nowhere!