quick 40,000 UAL miles

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Chase/ Marriott business card currently un available  is $95 yr, 6x hotel,4X restraunts,car, gas, groceries airline 2x everything else.

I have that card (like almost any other card out there 😀) but use it for Marriott stays only (when I have to pay for the stay - much prefer the free nights ☺️).

[clo]

18 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

If it were me... Id get the miles back,  by a revenue ticket and then use miles for a business up grade and save $5000 in value.

   Tell "Bob"  the savings is  the FF value and the revenue value  it can be as much as 50%...  Hey Bob... I just save us 50% on our air fare......pretty slick of me"

I just did  pretend booking and two economy open jaw (into Rio out of Buenos Aires) would be $3726.  I looked up The Points Guy valuation and they value UA Mileage Plus at 1.3 cents each.  So I multiplied that by 200,000 and came up with $2600.  BUT quite soon we'll have the new CSR card and if we buy tickets then we'll get over 11k points.  (And we have to knock off, what?, the first $300 for that other award credit.)  Am I tracking this right?  I told Bob about this - secret keeping around money doesn't happen in this family!  He suggested doing nothing until we get the new card.  Your thoughts?  We're good cooks so could come down and fix y'all dinner 🙂

[Paulchili]

21 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Wish that I had the patience to study and understand the ins and outs of credit card benefits.

I think I'm doing so great understanding Costco's Citi VISA with 4% cash on gas, 3% restaurant & travel, 2% at Costco, 1% everything else.  Then read this and realize what a lazy dummy I am. Probably just throwing money away.

 

Maybe it's time to get my children to assume responsibility as successor trustees so mom keeps more of their money.

Petoonya - I am not sure it is worth staring at point zero now. It has taken me years to get to where I am now and I have enjoyed the ride but the game is very different now and the awards are harder and harder to come by. For those of us that are already "invested & rolling", we are making the best of it but it's not easy like it used to be. By the time you really "learn" the game well there may not be any awards given by airlines any longer - or cost millions of miles (if they keep going like they are 😥)

That said, if you are interested, there are places to learn about these things like thepointsguy,viewfromthe wing, flyertalk etc.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Paulchili

[clo]

35 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

For fun  I looked on Matrix   Avanca and COPA  SFO to Rio  Dec 20 are running around $1900 pp  in BUSINESS!!   LIKE $1400 coach

I'm pretty committed to UA through Houston.  I'd looked at Copa before and now and it's SFO/LAX/Panama/Rio.  Whereas UA is nonstop from IAH which is a nice solid ten hours where I can sleep.

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm pretty committed to UA through Houston.  I'd looked at Copa before and now and it's SFO/LAX/Panama/Rio.  Whereas UA is nonstop from IAH which is a nice solid ten hours where I can sleep.

Plus Copa's business is like Business lite - no lie flat seats last time I flew with them ☺️

[Petoonya]

11 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Petoonya - I am not sure it is worth staring at point zero now. It has taken me years to get to where I am now and I have enjoyed the ride but the game is very different now and the awards are harder and harder to come by. For those of us that are already "invested & rolling", we are making the best of it but it's not easy like it used to be. By the time you really "learn" the game well there may not be any awards given by airlines any longer - or cost millions of miles (if they keep going like they are 😥)

That said, if you are interested, there are places to learn about these things like thepointsguy,viewfromthe wing, flyertalk etc.

Thanks Paul. One of my kids told me just before he left for a far flung cruise last week about a BofA/Merrill Lynch promo that gives 3% on everything with $100k at BofA or Merrill Lynch. I can't find it. If it's available is that a decent deal?

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, Petoonya said:

Thanks Paul. One of my kids told me just before he left for a far flung cruise last week about a BofA/Merrill Lynch promo that gives 3% on everything with $100k at BofA or Merrill Lynch. I can't find it. If it's available is that a decent deal?

Sorry but I am not familiar with the details of this deal to give an opinion. I know a lot more about FF miles than investments 

[Petoonya]

3 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Sorry but I am not familiar with the details of this deal to give an opinion. I know a lot more about FF miles than investments 

The credit card also gives 50k points to start and the 3% cash back but want a piece of your cash.

Thanks for all your sharing- late to the party but the game is fascinating.

[buggins0402]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Plus Copa's business is like Business lite - no lie flat seats last time I flew with them ☺️

It is a good product if it works for you to layover a night or two in PC.  Each flight is not too long, in daylight,  so a seat that is better than most domestic first is adequate and the service is pretty decent. 

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, buggins0402 said:

It is a good product if it works for you to layover a night or two in PC.  Each flight is not too long, in daylight,  so a seat that is better than most domestic first is adequate and the service is pretty decent. 

That is true - we did fly them with a layover in PC and got to see PC.

[buggins0402]

2 hours ago, Petoonya said:

The credit card also gives 50k points to start and the 3% cash back but want a piece of your cash.

Thanks for all your sharing- late to the party but the game is fascinating.

It’s not too bad with regard to rewards...where it falls short is on redemptions.  It’s 1:1.  That said, redemption valuations where you can leverage the miles earned over $.02 are getting more difficult. It used to be easy to score over $.03 in premium cabins. And, many times when you read a good redemption score...take it with a grain of salt because they are basing that on a one way ticket...which against the $ value is overinflated.

Edited July 2, 2019 by buggins0402

[buggins0402]

2 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

That is true - we did fly them with a layover in PC and got to see PC.

We did the same thing.  

 

They are refitting aircraft with lie flats...but for what we used them for it would be over kill.

[clo]

27 minutes ago, buggins0402 said:

It is a good product if it works for you to layover a night or two in PC.  Each flight is not too long, in daylight,  so a seat that is better than most domestic first is adequate and the service is pretty decent. 

I agree with what you say.  But if I want to get from the US to Rio with as long a nonstop as possible in order to sleep then this doesn't do it for me.  But I'm a weinie senior 🙂

[Hawaiidan]

6 hours ago, clo said:

I just did  pretend booking and two economy open jaw (into Rio out of Buenos Aires) would be $3726.  I looked up The Points Guy valuation and they value UA Mileage Plus at 1.3 cents each.  So I multiplied that by 200,000 and came up with $2600.  BUT quite soon we'll have the new CSR card and if we buy tickets then we'll get over 11k points.  (And we have to knock off, what?, the first $300 for that other award credit.)  Am I tracking this right?  I told Bob about this - secret keeping around money doesn't happen in this family!  He suggested doing nothing until we get the new card.  Your thoughts?  We're good cooks so could come down and fix y'all dinner 🙂

The points guy is figuring wrong  in my thinking. 

   If you tell me   what it cost you... not value

to earn 200K  even at 2X  thats  $100,000 you had to spend. 

  Ok  so you go an buy the miles from UAL on a super  sale you can get them for 2 cents a mile    200K x .o2= $4000 in cost.    Normaly its 0.2.5 cents per mile so thats $5000.       Who cares what the points guy thinks the value is..... what is the value to YOU .   Look at what it cost you to accrue those miles  and what you can buy with them.!       I just got  a 2750 ticket for 60,000. miles  that cost me   out of pocket, if I bought  the miles, $1200         That $1200 leveraged me a $2750 ticket  I saved $1550.  real dollars by spending $1200.......   or even better  using a one way UAL fare to europe   which was  listed at $5630   I was able to get for  $1200  a  actual cash savings of  $4430 that it would have cost. me.. 

 You see my point  thats a lot more than 1.2 cents per mile... thats not theory... thats hard cash in your pocket

[Hawaiidan]

5 hours ago, Petoonya said:

The credit card also gives 50k points to start and the 3% cash back but want a piece of your cash.

Thanks for all your sharing- late to the party but the game is fascinating.

To me  the cash back cards are losers.. .... I have 2 cards  1 marriott Business and 1 Ual Business/explorer

The benifits  for travel air and hotel blow away a silly 3%    Ok  Spend  $10,000   and get a whopping $300  or spend $60,000. and  $1800., where as with a pure miles you got  between 2700 and 5600 in purchase power

Lets see..... hmm   If you spend your $60000  which would like a big fat check for $1800 ( which is taxable income) or a non taxable certificate for a  $2700 -to $5600 use...?????    which  would you choose?

[Paulchili]

15 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

Interesting - I have Zimbabwe bank notes of 2, 5, 10 & 20 Dollars.

I guess that tells you how long ago I visited Zimbabwe 😁 (it was 1995)

 

[Petoonya]

8 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

To me  the cash back cards are losers.. .... I have 2 cards  1 marriott Business and 1 Ual Business/explorer

The benifits  for travel air and hotel blow away a silly 3%    Ok  Spend  $10,000   and get a whopping $300  or spend $60,000. and  $1800., where as with a pure miles you got  between 2700 and 5600 in purchase power

Lets see..... hmm   If you spend your $60000  which would like a big fat check for $1800 ( which is taxable income) or a non taxable certificate for a  $2700 -to $5600 use...?????    which  would you choose?

Thanks Dan. I guess I have to look into it. I knew it wasn't good compared to what you folks were earning but at least the Costco card is something I could wrap my brain around. But acquiring points instead makes sense.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Petoonya

[RetiredLifer]

9 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

To me  the cash back cards are losers.. .... I have 2 cards  1 marriott Business and 1 Ual Business/explorer

The benifits  for travel air and hotel blow away a silly 3%    Ok  Spend  $10,000   and get a whopping $300  or spend $60,000. and  $1800., where as with a pure miles you got  between 2700 and 5600 in purchase power

Lets see..... hmm   If you spend your $60000  which would like a big fat check for $1800 ( which is taxable income) or a non taxable certificate for a  $2700 -to $5600 use...?????    which  would you choose?

Hawaiidan; Who told you the rebates are taxable income?  In general, the IRS considers credit card rebates as discounts, not income.  Anyway, "pure mile" rebates and cash rebates would be treated the same.

[Hawaiidan]

18 minutes ago, RetiredLifer said:

Hawaiidan; Who told you the rebates are taxable income?  In general, the IRS considers credit card rebates as discounts, not income.  Anyway, "pure mile" rebates and cash rebates would be treated the same.

Well   while I have never been suckered to get a 3 to 4% rebate.    Why is that not treated as dividend, interest , income etc and get a 1098 or 99.    for which I get taxed.  I am not a tax accnt. but it seems a logical conclusion.  The bank sends me  tax docs for even $1.00 they paid me.

.   A long time ago the government tried to tax the value of FF miles when used.   That never happened, probably because the politicians realized that they too had a lot of miles......

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, Petoonya said:

Thanks Dan. I guess I have to look into it. I knew it wasn't good compared to what you folks were earning but at least the Costco card is something I could wrap my brain around. But acquiring points instead makes sense.

Good you realize that...too  many fall for the "cash in the pocket" mentality. 

  A litmus test on credit cards I use is, why would an airline, which has a credit card   or a Hotel chain which has a credit card allow a competing credit card...which owns neither, give you a better deal?     last I checked  Costco owns  grocery stores which dont fly or you can stay in over night in .   They cloud the issue with all sorts of cash back and travel credits. to avoid focus on the nuts and bolts of what they can not do.

[clo]

Here's some more info - that made my head hurt 🙂 - but is rather specific about the CSR.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/more-value-from-ultimate-rewards-points/

[RetiredLifer]

36 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

  " Why is that not treated as dividend, interest , income etc and get a 1098 or 99.    for which I get taxed.  I am not a tax accnt. but it seems a logical conclusion.  The bank sends me  tax docs for even $1.00 they paid me.

.   A long time ago the government tried to tax the value of FF miles when used.   That never happened, probably because the politicians realized that they too had a lot of miles......

Can not tell you why a credit card "rebate" is generally treated by the IRS as a "discount" for tax purposes rather then a dividend or interest.  You will have to ask them.   That interpretation seems the most logical to me. 

[Hawaiidan]

50 minutes ago, clo said:

Here's some more info - that made my head hurt 🙂 - but is rather specific about the CSR.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/more-value-from-ultimate-rewards-points/

I now see.... the points guy is valuing  the Sapphire  card  which will convert miles or points to dollars and then you have to purchase the ticket !!!      Really! 

  you have to buy the ticket with the money your credits produce....   It assumes a lot...    that you amortize  the trip by earning miles back because your paying for the fare it is not an award... 

 

  Ok what if your flying 1 way?   and its the practice  to charge the RT fare like Lufthansa, Air France UAL, Etc.  You will have to come up with 280,000 points for a 1 way !!! at $5600   I can do it  for 70,000 ff miles 1/4 the dollars spent or miles used     So one of us spends $280K to get the same that the other spent $70K.....     Gee   let me think on that..... Hmmm.

 

When you fly in free UAL flights  you do not earn miles  but you can buy back 5,000, 10,000 miles miles for 2 cents@      When  I stay at Marriotts,    on a free night  I get elite credits. and benefits  including up grades.   Not so with the Sapphire card quoted   you get rack rate  no benefits. and have to pay

Be very clear getting flights for pure miles  is much more productive than getting flights for the converted value of the points you cash in..  Thats back in the rebate%  game......  

[clo]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

the Sapphire  card

I thought you like that card.  Maybe that was @PaulChili?

[Hawaiidan]

17 minutes ago, clo said:

I thought you like that card.  Maybe that was @PaulChili?

Paul... not me.       

 I have 2 cards total  1 chase/marriott  select business     and 1 UAL explorer prem business    both $95 a year     UA sends me  4 club passes ( $200 vlaue)  and a 2 for 1 coach cert for US flights. a $500 value  for my  $95  and free baggage and complimentary up grades to economy plus no charge for me and  my companion.

Marriott sends me 2 comp nights ( no points uses) a year  thats $400-500 a year in free hotel rooms for $95..a bad deal  ?

So  I  the credit cards rip me off for $190 a year..... and  I  ONLY get a lousy $ $600.00 - to $1200.00 back min a year.... I do not know why I take that abuse !!!!!  There  ought to be a law against what they are doing to me.... because they do this every year...  What s guy to do!

Edited July 2, 2019 by Hawaiidan