Family's statement on toddler's cruise death

[TopDogSparky08]

I gave this some thought last night. While I agree it is a terrible tragedy for the parents, the grandfather should have known better. The charges are deserved.

 

I’m no parent, and have no interest in being one, but no one—adult or child—should be on those ship railings. What could have possibly made the grandfather and parents think it is OK to plop a baby up there just so she could bang on glass? The hockey excuse doesn’t hold water. I go to hockey games myself, and my team’s home arena doesn’t allow fans to bang on the glass. I assume if glass had popped out at a game and hit the child while she was banging on it, her parents would sue the arena it happened in. 

 

I was on Anthem and a couple weeks ago and saw an open window while walking through the pool deck, I believe. It was very clear the window was open. 

 

A lot of parents these days seem content to let their kids have and do what they want when they want and then cry lawsuit if a tragedy like this happens. Why are they not taking responsibility and having the public believe oh the law should just let this go because they are suffering? No doubt that they are, but you can’t just be a negligent parent or guardian and evade consequences. 

[nextcruiseis]

This morning on CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-video-shows-moments-before-toddler-chloe-wiegand-falls/

 

"The video shows what appears to be 18-month-old Chloe cross over to the side of the ship and stand in front of a bank of windows. A man attorneys said is Anello is seen following her. There was a railing about a foot from the windows, Michael Winkleman, the Wiegand family's attorney said. The surveillance video appears to show Anello look over the railing for one second. He then reaches down, picks Chloe up and appears to hold her over the railing. Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him. Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

 

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said. "What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked. "If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said."

 

 

[NightOne]

I'd like to see news coverage of this story that does NOT involve the family's attorney. Every single article and newscast always allows him to spin a version of the story.

[beerman2]

11 minutes ago, nextcruiseis said:

This morning on CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-video-shows-moments-before-toddler-chloe-wiegand-falls/

 

"The video shows what appears to be 18-month-old Chloe cross over to the side of the ship and stand in front of a bank of windows. A man attorneys said is Anello is seen following her. There was a railing about a foot from the windows, Michael Winkleman, the Wiegand family's attorney said. The surveillance video appears to show Anello look over the railing for one second. He then reaches down, picks Chloe up and appears to hold her over the railing. Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him. Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

 

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said. "What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked. "If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said."

 

 

So now we need signs for every possible hazardous condition to protect ourselves from danger?  The lawyer is grasping at everything to place the blame on RCI.

 

The lawyer needs to use "common sense", however we all know that won't happen. I'm guessing the lawyer is working on a contingency contact for the most part. He is looking for his payday also.

[ceilidh1]

The video shows the grandfather look over the railing PRIOR to picking up the child and holding her over? To me, that makes the "I didn't know there was no glass" comment completely invalid. If you leaned over to look out of an open window, you KNOW there is no glass. It would be more believable if he had just picked up the child before he, himself, had looked out/over. It would seem that particular spot was chosen specifically because there was no glass - as the attorney said, they wanted to get a better view.

 

Still tragic and I can't imagine what they are all going through, including the grandfather. But not something that can be blamed on the cruise line. As for not having a sign...really? That's just grasping at straws.....

 

My question is, IF the grandfather isn't charged what does that mean? Does the cruise line automatically get blamed or is it just ruled an accident and life moves on? I suspect that if charges are dropped, the attorney and the family will keep trying to sue RCI?

[Two Wheels Only]

"He comes to the railing. He looks over the railing for just a second...." - CBS

How long does it take to figure out that there is nothing but air there?

 

 

"If that was the case and they wanted no one to sit on it, they should say 'no one should sit on it'..." - attorney.

 

Unsafe Behavior

Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. - RCCL Guest Conduct Policy

 

I would simply ask the attorney "If Chloe had fallen back from the railing and landed at grandpa's feet but died from her injuries, who would be responsible for Chloe's death?"

Edited November 21, 2019 by Two Wheels Only

[cruisinmeme]

1 hour ago, nextcruiseis said:

This morning on CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-video-shows-moments-before-toddler-chloe-wiegand-falls/

 

"The video shows what appears to be 18-month-old Chloe cross over to the side of the ship and stand in front of a bank of windows. A man attorneys said is Anello is seen following her. There was a railing about a foot from the windows, Michael Winkleman, the Wiegand family's attorney said. The surveillance video appears to show Anello look over the railing for one second. He then reaches down, picks Chloe up and appears to hold her over the railing. Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him. Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

 

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said. "What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked. "If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said."

 

 

Well i ride over the Mississippi River bridge often.  No signs saying DO NOT JUMP FROM BRIDGE. As an adult with a lick of sense i know not to do it. Damn people do as they please and a sign wouldn’t meant a hill of beans to a man like this.

[suometar]

Just looking at the part of the video that was shown, it is clear (pun intended) that the only window that was open was the window that grandpa decided that Chloe needed to be looking out of. All the other window panes are tinted green. (Perhaps grandpa is colorblind?)

[ray98]

2 hours ago, nextcruiseis said:

"If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said."

 

 

 

This idiot is the reason we have warning labels such as 'hot' on the side of a cup of coffee.

[Starry Eyes]

2 hours ago, nextcruiseis said:

This morning on CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-video-shows-moments-before-toddler-chloe-wiegand-falls/

 

"The video shows what appears to be 18-month-old Chloe cross over to the side of the ship and stand in front of a bank of windows. A man attorneys said is Anello is seen following her. There was a railing about a foot from the windows, Michael Winkleman, the Wiegand family's attorney said. The surveillance video appears to show Anello look over the railing for one second. He then reaches down, picks Chloe up and appears to hold her over the railing. Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him. Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

 

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said. "What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked. "If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said."

 

 

Ah, what a surprise the attorney forfeit to mention the guest conduct policy!  But potting that aside, when I go to multilevel malls, I do not see signs telling me not to put toddlers on the railing.  Perhaps because it is obvious that is is unsafe to balance a tot on a high surface.  There is a reason high chairs have safety straps!  No wonder there are so many lawyer jokes!

[NLH Arizona]

37 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

I would simply ask the attorney "If Chloe had fallen back from the railing and landed at grandpa's feet but died from her injuries, who would be responsible for Chloe's death?"

He would probably say Royal Caribbean is, because the floor was too hard, it should have had cushioning or signs that said the floor is hard.

[Two Wheels Only]

 

The photo used by CBS is a cropped screen capture from the YouTube video (about 1:38) posted by kjquilts in post #377. 

 

If you watch the entire video (1:03 forward), you can see that the person making the video has no problem telling which windows are open and which are not. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Two Wheels Only

[NightOne]

2 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

The photo used by CBS is a cropped screen capture from the YouTube video (about 1:38) posted kjquilts in post #377. 

 

 

 

Did CBS credit the source?

[Two Wheels Only]

3 minutes ago, NightOne said:

Did CBS credit the source?

 

"Michael P" uploaded the video but I didn't see/hear anything from CBS as far as credit other than to state that the attorney provided the picture. 

[GeezerCouple]

3 hours ago, TopDogSparky08 said:

I gave this some thought last night. While I agree it is a terrible tragedy for the parents, the grandfather should have known better. The charges are deserved.

 

I’m no parent, and have no interest in being one, but no one—adult or child—should be on those ship railings. What could have possibly made the grandfather and parents think it is OK to plop a baby up there just so she could bang on glass? The hockey excuse doesn’t hold water. I go to hockey games myself, and my team’s home arena doesn’t allow fans to bang on the glass. I assume if glass had popped out at a game and hit the child while she was banging on it, her parents would sue the arena it happened in. 

 

I was on Anthem and a couple weeks ago and saw an open window while walking through the pool deck, I believe. It was very clear the window was open. 

 

A lot of parents these days seem content to let their kids have and do what they want when they want and then cry lawsuit if a tragedy like this happens. Why are they not taking responsibility and having the public believe oh the law should just let this go because they are suffering? No doubt that they are, but you can’t just be a negligent parent or guardian and evade consequences. 

 

[emphasis added]

 

This is something I mentioned earlier in this thread, and I've continued to be amazed that others seem to think it is okay to allow - to *encourage* - a toddler to do this.

 

(And there is also the issue of common politeness... not blocking the view of those sitting right behind the "toddler standing on someone's knees/etc., flailing around and banging" or the distraction of those sitting right next to them, etc.  What is THAT teaching the child?  It's okay to jump up and down in theatres when others are behind you?)

But obviously the DANGER issue is the biggest one.  Anyone saying - now! - that there couldn't possibly be any danger...???  (Never mind if there were real glass that shattered...)

 

GC

[Two Wheels Only]

2 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

This is something I mentioned earlier in this thread, and I've continued to be amazed that others seem to think it is okay to allow - to *encourage* - a toddler to do this.

 

Myself, I never believed the "bang on the glass" theory given by the attorney.

Grandpa didn't say "Hey, Chloe. You wanna bang on the glass? Let me pick you up so you can bang on the glass...".

 

CHLOE might have believed that there was glass there (she doesn't know any better) but I don't believe that grandpa believed that there was glass there especially since grandpa leaned over the railing BEFORE he picked Chloe up. 

 

 

[smplybcause]

5 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

Myself, I never believed the "bang on the glass" theory given by the attorney.

Grandpa didn't say "Hey, Chloe. You wanna bang on the glass? Let me pick you up so you can bang on the glass...".

 

CHLOE might have believed that there was glass there (she doesn't know any better) but I don't believe that grandpa believed that there was glass there especially since grandpa leaned over the railing BEFORE he picked Chloe up. 

 

 

 

The very first accounting was that he lifted her up there (and was possibly hanging her a bit over the side to see) and she slipped. It seems the video might corroborate that first accounting. I always believed that was likely what happened over the story that came out once there was a lawyer involved.