IJmuiden Shuttle Buses

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, the english lady said:

So maybe change to to the brands that do still stop in the center. I know Fred do. However I think a lot of people like pando's prices more than the smaller more expensive ships.

We travel with Fred, Marella, Celebrity etc as well as P&O so if I want a trip to Amsterdam that is exactly what I will do.

 

The point I was making was that Carnivals motivation is not likely to based on customers having a cruise to nowhere or they would have made the change many years ago before the Amsterdam charges were imposed.

[the english lady]

I don't think the main part of my post was not always getting it. It's more that Amsterdam itself doesn't want cruise ships docking in the center, with 1000's of passengers getting off and spending very little money over all. More and more places are saying they don't really want the cruise ship money, when they compare it to the amount of damage that is being done by just the sheer number of tourists.  It is a double edged sword. So if this battle continues and Carnival lose..and dock back in the centre again. I guess you will all be happy. Of course the locals will get to the point like they have in Barcelona and Venice where the tourists are despised.

[Eglesbrech]

28 minutes ago, the english lady said:

I don't think the main part of my post was not always getting it. It's more that Amsterdam itself doesn't want cruise ships docking in the center, with 1000's of passengers getting off and spending very little money over all. More and more places are saying they don't really want the cruise ship money, when they compare it to the amount of damage that is being done by just the sheer number of tourists.  It is a double edged sword. So if this battle continues and Carnival lose..and dock back in the centre again. I guess you will all be happy. Of course the locals will get to the point like they have in Barcelona and Venice where the tourists are despised.

And these places display a degree of hypocrisy as they have complained about the cruise ships for years but none has as yet imposed an outright ban. If you don’t want passengers then ban them, don’t charge them 8 euros.

 

When we first went to Barcelona for example there were just two small berths at the opposite end of the city from the current dock, now they have a massive complex for many ships. Why build these facilities if you don’t want the passengers?

 

I think that the big ticket ports will eventually stop the ships coming in but while they make money from them that won’t happen. They may just start to charge per capita as Amsterdam has done.

[Harry Peterson]

You just can't get away from the fact that shuttles from Ijmuiden are no substitute at all for docking almost in the centre of Amsterdam,  which is what P&O were advertising before they changed the port and refused to say why  - presumably to avoid paying out on cancellations. 

 

I will,  like others here, not use P&O for Amsterdam unless and until it backs off. It's rather like advertising London and providing Southend.

[daiB]

If I want to do Amsterdam then I will go to North Shields and get the ferry and stay in Amsterdam as long as I like. I would not go on a cruise to do Amsterdam.

 

Oh and the ferry docks in Ijmuiden, and has done for years.

[snaefell]

I'm not sure that I see Amsterdammers getting any benefit from the current situation,instead of loads of cruise customers spending very little they now have loads of cruise customers spending very little with the added bonus of a load of extra buses to help with the traffic jams.

[AndyMichelle]

4 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

You just can't get away from the fact that shuttles from Ijmuiden are no substitute at all for docking almost in the centre of Amsterdam,  which is what P&O were advertising before they changed the port and refused to say why  - presumably to avoid paying out on cancellations. 

 

I will,  like others here, not use P&O for Amsterdam unless and until it backs off. It's rather like advertising London and providing Southend.

We were only successful in getting in to Amsterdam once in 4 attempts before the change of port. 

We have booked a cheapie(7 nights £381) in November on Oceana that goes to Ijmuiden, so at least we won't have to worry about not docking. 

I might not even get off, the bars will be open😊

Andy

[Eglesbrech]

5 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

We were only successful in getting in to Amsterdam once in 4 attempts before the change of port. 

We have booked a cheapie(7 nights £381) in November on Oceana that goes to Ijmuiden, so at least we won't have to worry about not docking. 

I might not even get off, the bars will be open😊

Andy

Getting into some ports is a matter of luck. We have been lucky with Amsterdam but not so much St Peter Port. Same with Zeebrugge, we have got in almost every time while some struggle every time. Gibraltar is another difficult port of call as the tides can be a pain.

 

Enjoy your November cruise.

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

Getting into some ports is a matter of luck. We have been lucky with Amsterdam but not so much St Peter Port. Same with Zeebrugge, we have got in almost every time while some struggle every time. Gibraltar is another difficult port of call as the tides can be a pain.

 

Enjoy your November cruise.

Thank you. 

We are quite excited by this one as it feels like a bonus. We usually book on release and have to wait ages. 

Of course it was better when the ship managed to dock in the centre of Amsterdam, but it often didn't manage it. 

We are happy to get the bus. 

Andy 

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, snaefell said:

I'm not sure that I see Amsterdammers getting any benefit from the current situation,instead of loads of cruise customers spending very little they now have loads of cruise customers spending very little with the added bonus of a load of extra buses to help with the traffic jams.

Nobody's winning from the current situation.  It's basically a fight between the fine city of Amsterdam and a money-grasping polluting Carnival and I sincerely hope that Carnival get their fingers badly burned. It's the passengers who are caught in the middle but there are other cruise lines taking a less grasping and more reasonable approach fortunately. 

[brian1]

8 hours ago, the english lady said:

Carnival as a multibrand decided not to stop there, so its Cunard, Pando, and the others owned by them. 

Plus Marella are just adding to the problem. They do not want cruise ships docking in the centre.

At least where they dock now they will always get into. Maybe Marella do not go there very often to worry about having cruises to nowhere as weather prohibited getting into Amsterdam port.

So why are they building another larger lock to get into the city with its modern cruise terminal.That doesn't sound like we're not wanted to me.At a Captains Q&A session last week,when asked he said that it costs between 30 and 40k GBP to dock at most ports with Venice charging 55k.Nice earner Rodders,lol.

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, brian1 said:

So why are they building another larger lock to get into the city with its modern cruise terminal.That doesn't sound like we're not wanted to me.At a Captains Q&A session last week,when asked he said that it costs between 30 and 40k GBP to dock at most ports with Venice charging 55k.Nice earner Rodders,lol.

Not at all a nice little earner if you're simply bringing in cruise passengers who are notorious for not spending anything like what visitors staying in hotels spend. Those hotel visitors also pay a daily tourist tax  -  all this port tax is doing is stop P&O avoiding that tax by replacing it with another. 

[happy v]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Not at all a nice little earner if you're simply bringing in cruise passengers who are notorious for not spending anything like what visitors staying in hotels spend. Those hotel visitors also pay a daily tourist tax  -  all this port tax is doing is stop P&O avoiding that tax by replacing it with another. 

O.K. I have to reply.

Where does this notion that cruise passengers don't spend any money come from? Alright I don't pay an hotel, but there would not be the capacity to accommodate all cruise passengers, so it is all extra money. I usually book an excursion, at least £50, pay entry fees, local transport, snacks and drinks, and if in Italy or France a meal obviously. Multiply this by 2000-3000, not bad going for a few hours.

[AndyMichelle]

12 minutes ago, happy v said:

O.K. I have to reply.

Where does this notion that cruise passengers don't spend any money come from? Alright I don't pay an hotel, but there would not be the capacity to accommodate all cruise passengers, so it is all extra money. I usually book an excursion, at least £50, pay entry fees, local transport, snacks and drinks, and if in Italy or France a meal obviously. Multiply this by 2000-3000, not bad going for a few hours.

You may be the exception rather than the rule. 

We are happy to spend money in port, but many won't. 

Breakfast before leaving and back on board for lunch is quite common. 

Due to the limited itineraries, a large number of passengers have visited these ports before, so no need for excursions etc. 

On a 7 night Fjord cruise, I think we had one coffee and bought a viking fridge magnet... Thats about £200 I won't see again😊

Andy

[brian1]

57 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Not at all a nice little earner if you're simply bringing in cruise passengers who are notorious for not spending anything like what visitors staying in hotels spend. Those hotel visitors also pay a daily tourist tax  -  all this port tax is doing is stop P&O avoiding that tax by replacing it with another. 

You haven't explained why they are expanding the port.There was a large Celebrity ship parked next to us-80k earner. plus all the provisions that cruise ships load up with. Plus all the river cruise boats that start and finish downtown.As I said on another thread this tax IMO is aimed at other types of "tourists".Amsterdam is not the perfect city you claim it to be.I didn't mind the "window shopping" but of course being a cruiser didn't spend anything,lol.

[brian1]

53 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

You may be the exception rather than the rule. 

We are happy to spend money in port, but many won't. 

Breakfast before leaving and back on board for lunch is quite common. 

Due to the limited itineraries, a large number of passengers have visited these ports before, so no need for excursions etc. 

On a 7 night Fjord cruise, I think we had one coffee and bought a viking fridge magnet... Thats about £200 I won't see again😊

Andy

And I thought West Ham fridge magnets were expensive.

[Harry Peterson]

36 minutes ago, brian1 said:

You haven't explained why they are expanding the port.There was a large Celebrity ship parked next to us-80k earner. plus all the provisions that cruise ships load up with. Plus all the river cruise boats that start and finish downtown.As I said on another thread this tax IMO is aimed at other types of "tourists".Amsterdam is not the perfect city you claim it to be.I didn't mind the "window shopping" but of course being a cruiser didn't spend anything,lol.

Can't answer that one I'm afraid but the Dutch are very good at business,  have been for centuries, and I'm sure they know exactly what they're doing. 

 

Maybe they've costed in that tax - a perfectly reasonable 8 Euros per passenger  - that Carnival are seeking to avoid.  Or maybe they're looking for a better class of passenger! Who knows? But the Dutch will.

[the english lady]

I see some of the other posters think the same as me. It is the have breakfast on board ,wander round, go back on board for lunch (why would you pay to eat out when you have paid for your food on board) thinking.

The port might be building a larger terminal. Its Joe public who don't want us. Who is it marching in Barcelona and Venice . Its not the port owners ,they like money. Its the people who had something beautiful and day in day out 1000's of people walk through it. Look, maybe spend a few euros, then oooh must get back onboard, I'm hungry . How many post do you see of people saying can we take a packed lunch ashore. people in the buffet making up a packed lunch ,so they wouldn't have to spend any money. 

We did a Caribbean cruise earlier in the year, will not be repeating. Again there was something beautiful. Now its tat after tat after tat. Same tat on each island ,different name printed on it. Hoardes and hoardes of people. Get a couple of large US ships in and we were on Arcadia and there you go, triple the population in one fail swoop. Dubrovnick went years ago, lots of lovely little shops, now its a clone of every town every where else, Same shop names. The building maybe pretty but that is it.

[brian1]

2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Can't answer that one I'm afraid but the Dutch are very good at business,  have been for centuries, and I'm sure they know exactly what they're doing. 

 

Maybe they've costed in that tax - a perfectly reasonable 8 Euros per passenger  - that Carnival are seeking to avoid.  Or maybe they're looking for a better class of passenger! Who knows? But the Dutch will.

I'm not talking about passengers,I'm talking about stag,drug and sex tourists.HAL and Celebrity sail from there,so think of all the passengers that stay in hotels before sailing,plus the river cruise peeps.

[snaefell]

16 hours ago, the english lady said:

I see some of the other posters think the same as me. It is the have breakfast on board ,wander round, go back on board for lunch (why would you pay to eat out when you have paid for your food on board) thinking.

 

We did a Caribbean cruise earlier in the year, will not be repeating. Again there was something beautiful. Now its tat after tat after tat. Same tat on each island ,different name printed on it. Hoardes and hoardes of people. Get a couple of large US ships in and we were on Arcadia and there you go, triple the population in one fail swoop. Dubrovnick went years ago, lots of lovely little shops, now its a clone of every town every where else, Same shop names. The building maybe pretty but that is it.

For us that has depended on where we have been,on our last cruise there were a number of places where we had found lovely bars & decided to stay there for lunch rather than go back to the ship.

Totally agree about the stops in the Caribbean,at the first one I thought it looked like something from Disney,sadly all the rest,including what they were selling seemed to be the same everywhere.

[Host Sharon]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:05 AM, Harry Peterson said:

You just can't get away from the fact that shuttles from Ijmuiden are no substitute at all for docking almost in the centre of Amsterdam,  which is what P&O were advertising before they changed the port and refused to say why  - presumably to avoid paying out on cancellations. 

 

I will,  like others here, not use P&O for Amsterdam unless and until it backs off. It's rather like advertising London and providing Southend.

Lots of US cruise lines advertise London with Southampton in brackets - it's no different, or Seville (Cadiz).

 

[Harry Peterson]

16 minutes ago, Host Sharon said:

Lots of US cruise lines advertise London with Southampton in brackets - it's no different, or Seville (Cadiz).

 

It may be little different, but it doesn't make it in any way acceptable. It's also a Ryanair stunt, and it's highly misleading for consumers.

[snaefell]

The world is full of such things sadly,one prime example in our region is Stena Line advertising their Liverpool-Belfast service which runs from the other side of the Mersey.

[AndyMichelle]

14 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

It may be little different, but it doesn't make it in any way acceptable. It's also a Ryanair stunt, and it's highly misleading for consumers.

Do consumers really fall for it nowadays? 

Information is so readily available, the provider cannot hide it. 

I get your grievance Harry as I believe your Amsterdam cruise was changed without explanation, bu we have booked fully aware we need a 40 minute bus ride to get there. 

Nobody seems to mention Zeebrugge, where the bus drops you at a train station in Blankenburg... that is advertised as Brugge... 

Andy

 

[snaefell]

20 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Do consumers really fall for it nowadays? 

Information is so readily available, the provider cannot hide it. 

Andy

 

I would be suggesting that the answer to that is YES!

I can only imagine that some people just don't have the time but Trip Advisor forums too often have people asking if they can walk to their Liverpool hotel from the Belfast-Liverpool ferry terminal,ask what there is to do for a day around where their cruise ship berths in Holyhead,or asks my Wife in the hotel she works in in the centre of Chester for walking directions to Cheshire Oaks which is about 8 miles away in another town!

Some people really do not do any planning,sadly that is a fact!