3 in 10 cruisers won’t cruise again

[kalos]

47 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

This might give an indication as to how Carnival are approaching the situation, and their views on when cruising might recommence:

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/when-will-cruising-resume/

 

Reading that link Harry I note their best guess for cruises to resume is they are not sure, due to the "Curve lag"

within Europe and with the link you posted on Spain it does not look good for this year around the Med .

Maybe carnival will do cruises just on their side of the pond if safe to do so.

Hope it works out for them .Who knows ?

[DamianG]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:22 AM, grapau27 said:

The young seem to take the virus lightly.

While walking around our estate and park the young just walk towards us making no attempt to keep the 2 metre social distance.

We are constantly crossing the road or walking on grass to keep over 2 metres social distance from them.

 

Not always young people but I keep finding the same. Whilst out running last week on an empty road a passing car pulled up 5 metres in front of where I was heading and a couple got straight out. They looked at me daft when I ran off the path onto the road to avoid them.

Similar thing at the supermarket car park, parked as far away from the entrance as I could in glorious isolation and just as I got out another car parked right next to me. There must have been 100 other free spaces in that single section of a car park that holds well over a thousand. I got back in the car and moved it.

[wowzz]

Just to get back to the original subject of the thread, I have been thinking of moving the deposit for our 5 week cruise in January 21 (can't see it going ahead, and not sure if I'd want to be on it anyway)  to  a Canary cruise on Arcadia, to  replace the one we should have been on at the moment.

We booked a select fare for our April 202O cruise,  and paid a nett price (after obc) of just over £3000 for the two of us. Not a fantastic cabin position, but by no means one of the worst. Passenger decks above and below, so fairly quiet. 

I've been pricing up the same cabin for the equivalent 2021 and 2022 cruises, a.though admitted,y the cruise is now 16 days rather than 14. The cost- over £4500 (taking obc into account)! Unbelievable! 

Obviously P&O have massively increased their prices, so as to absorb the 125% FCC offer, but for those of us without such FCC, the prices are monstrous.

Whilst we enjoy the odd cruise, we enjoy various other types of holiday as well. At the current P&O pricing, it looks as if we won't  be cruising with them again for a while.I would imagine that not many others will pay that sort of price either.

I wonder if, once the various FCC refunds work their way through the system, that prices will revert to a more reasonable level. 

 

[DamianG]

20 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

The prices may be higher, but if you exclude certain low cost areas London reflects, at a higher level obviously, the rises that have taken place in many other parts of the country - the parts where people have to live because the jobs are there.  Bristol, for example, the whole of the south-east, Leeds, places covering most of the population.

I can't find the article now but read that the average UK salary is around £36k, however only around 20% of people in the UK actually earn more than £30k per year. In other words 80% of people earn less than £30k per year. Meanwhile a well known property website currently quotes that average house price in Leeds at £213k.

Of course there will be cheaper houses on the market, and statistics can always be queried and argued over, but it seems a far cry from 2001 when I was earning around £26k a year and we bought our semi-detached house for £85k. 

 

[Eddie99]

Wowzz

 

Basically - as they say on QI - Nobody Knows

 

Nobody knows when UK will be out of lockdown enough for anyone to consider holidays anywhere

Nobody knows if countries will accept foreign tourists

Nobody knows if it will be possible to get/afford travel insurance to cover Covid

Nobody knows when cruising might resume

Nobody knows what future cruising might be like

Nobody knows what future cruising might cost

 

I’m sure a lot of very senior people on very high salaries are putting their minds to all sorts of scenarios.

People like us can muse, pontificate, hold court, postulate or just ‘wonder if’

 

However

Nobody Knows

Edited April 21, 2020 by Eddie99

[Selbourne]

49 minutes ago, DamianG said:

I can't find the article now but read that the average UK salary is around £36k, however only around 20% of people in the UK actually earn more than £30k per year. In other words 80% of people earn less than £30k per year. Meanwhile a well known property website currently quotes that average house price in Leeds at £213k.

Of course there will be cheaper houses on the market, and statistics can always be queried and argued over, but it seems a far cry from 2001 when I was earning around £26k a year and we bought our semi-detached house for £85k. 

 

Average UK salary is actually a lot less, around £30k, and the average house price in the UK is £231k, so the ratios of average income to average house price are even worse than in your example. Also, when many of us got on the property ladder for the first time we were very young and probably on a lot less than what the UK average salary was then, as will be the case for many of those trying (in vain) to get on the property market nowadays. We don’t live in London or the South East, yet you would really struggle to buy a property that you would be prepared to live in for less than £275k here, so probably 12 times the income of someone in their early 20’s. I bought my first house, a 3 bed detached, at 22 years of age. I was on the equivalent of average UK earnings then and it cost 3.5 times my salary. The same house now would be 12 times average earnings. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Selbourne

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, DamianG said:

 

Not always young people but I keep finding the same. Whilst out running last week on an empty road a passing car pulled up 5 metres in front of where I was heading and a couple got straight out. They looked at me daft when I ran off the path onto the road to avoid them.

Similar thing at the supermarket car park, parked as far away from the entrance as I could in glorious isolation and just as I got out another car parked right next to me. There must have been 100 other free spaces in that single section of a car park that holds well over a thousand. I got back in the car and moved it.

I agree that you can’t generalise by age. Our daughters (in their 20’s) are very alert to the need for social distancing and were lecturing us about it even before the lockdown. By contrast, my sister says that she finds supermarket shopping incredibly stressful because, to quote her “old people have no concept of social distancing”. People can find odd examples to suit any generalisation that they wish to make, but the reality is that there are those who are bloody minded (or stupid) at all ages!

[zap99]

19 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

Andy, unless I have missed it no one referred to youngsters as snow flakes. The only reference was to “boomers“  by Harry.

Im sure your daughters will do just fine. We all face the challenges of our particular generation.

 

Funny how the meaning of slang changed over the years. When I was a lad in South London "Snowflake " had different meaning which if used today would get you locked up. Quite rightly so.

[emam]

Most people around here get less than half of £30k

[kalos]

 

If 3 out of 10 will not cruise again .What will they do ?

 

A beach holiday  maybe ? 

 https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-hope-for-holidaymakers-as-eu-urges-smart-solutions-for-tourists-11976383  

[Eddie99]

Mmm, I saw that 🙄

 

Oh my, the world is going to be very different when - when! - we ever come out of this.  Maybe international travel for holidays will not be possible, at least for a matter of several years?

Maybe over 70s will never be able to travel for holidays - govt restrictions or lack of insurance?

If I was a gambler - I’m not - I think I might be considering investments in Center Parc type “resorts”.  Nice places to visit any time of year, with warmth & simulated sunshine for UKs gloomy months.  Traditional resorts will have to step up to the plate but I wonder how much they will be able to meet expectations at prices people can afford

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

If 3 out of 10 will not cruise again .What will they do ?

 

A beach holiday  maybe ? 

 https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-hope-for-holidaymakers-as-eu-urges-smart-solutions-for-tourists-11976383  

But as said at the beginning,100-30=70%.70% WILL cruise again. End of August on Iona in our case ( Gary Barlow is on board ). Since we retired we have taken 3 Cruises a year, about 3 overseas package holidays and several UK long weekends/short breaks. All paid for by these young people. It amazing what the state pension will do, especially when it's only about 20% of our total pension. If the winter fuel allowance was increased, we could get an extra weekend in. As other posters have said we still pay income tax, VAT, capital gains etc. Do I feel guilty that, having saved all of our working lives, we now get to enjoy the fruits of our labour?. Do I heck.

[Selbourne]

17 minutes ago, zap99 said:

But as said at the beginning,100-30=70%.70% WILL cruise again. End of August on Iona in our case ( Gary Barlow is on board ). Since we retired we have taken 3 Cruises a year, about 3 overseas package holidays and several UK long weekends/short breaks. All paid for by these young people. It amazing what the state pension will do, especially when it's only about 20% of our total pension. If the winter fuel allowance was increased, we could get an extra weekend in. As other posters have said we still pay income tax, VAT, capital gains etc. Do I feel guilty that, having saved all of our working lives, we now get to enjoy the fruits of our labour?. Do I heck.

You are, of course, quite correct that 70% will cruise again, but that’s 70% of existing cruisers I.e. us! The problem will be that many cruise lines (and in particular P&O) are somewhat turning their back on us traditional cruisers, and with their new resort style ships and marketing campaigns are targeting the first time cruiser market. Whilst it doesn’t necessarily suit me, I would do exactly the same if I was them as average incomes of retirees will fall over the coming years as the results of pension changes made over the last 15 years or so kick in. I would therefore suggest that the bigger issue going forward will be that a lot of the target audience who might have considered a cruise prior to Coronavirus might now have second thoughts. 
 

BTW your post made me smile!

Edited April 21, 2020 by Selbourne

[Britboys]

18 minutes ago, zap99 said:

But as said at the beginning,100-30=70%.70% WILL cruise again. End of August on Iona in our case ( Gary Barlow is on board ). Since we retired we have taken 3 Cruises a year, about 3 overseas package holidays and several UK long weekends/short breaks. All paid for by these young people. It amazing what the state pension will do, especially when it's only about 20% of our total pension. If the winter fuel allowance was increased, we could get an extra weekend in. As other posters have said we still pay income tax, VAT, capital gains etc. Do I feel guilty that, having saved all of our working lives, we now get to enjoy the fruits of our labour?. Do I heck.

I bet those pensions have paid for a few big wooden spoons 😉😂

[Adawn47]

45 minutes ago, kalos said:

 

If 3 out of 10 will not cruise again .What will they do ?

 

A beach holiday  maybe ? 

 https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-hope-for-holidaymakers-as-eu-urges-smart-solutions-for-tourists-11976383  

Or sit and watch  7 out of 10 going cruising.😊

Avril 

[wowzz]

46 minutes ago, zap99 said:

End of August on Iona in our case

Although that cruise will obviously not be going ahead!

[wowzz]

30 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

You are, of course, quite correct that 70% will cruise again, but that’s 70% of existing cruisers I.e. us! The problem will be that many cruise lines (and in particular P&O) are somewhat turning their back on us traditional cruisers, and with their new resort style ships and marketing campaigns are targeting the first time cruiser market.

Having said that, many of us 70% will not be able to get insurance, so that makes a big difference. And then you have P&O raising their prices,  which will make cruising too expensive for first time cruisers. 

IMHO, the cruise lines that will survive, will be the bespoke lines, offering expensive cruises to a clientele that are rich enough not to have to worry about insurance issues, lost deposits etc. The others will be in a race to the bottom, trying to attract younger cruisers, who would be just as happy with an AI holiday in Tenerife as a cruise.

[kalos]

Maybe I did not make myself clear 

 

I was referring to the three who do not want to go on a cruise.     

 

Hence the link and would they like a week or two within the cage of perspex/glass.

 

Not for me but for a fee I could knock up a greenhouse in our back garden to see if it would catch on 

 

Zap99 could test out the winter fuel allowance on a cruise ship  at the same time . 

[newbie cruissy]

22 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I wonder how younger cruisers (the future of the market) might view some of these comments aimed at them.  Hardly welcoming, hardly kind.

 

Must we really have generations attacking each other like this?  It's not helpful.

I wonder what you class as "younger cruisers". We were (are?!) due to go on our first ever cruise in July, we are a family of 4 (48, 46, 18, 16). I'm pretty thick skinned, and the comments on here don't bother me. 

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, newbie cruissy said:

I wonder what you class as "younger cruisers". We were (are?!) due to go on our first ever cruise in July, we are a family of 4 (48, 46, 18, 16). I'm pretty thick skinned, and the comments on here don't bother me. 

I think us old uns would consider you young ! However, you will have a great time, but, unfortunately I can't see your cruise happening.

[kalos]

6 minutes ago, newbie cruissy said:

I wonder what you class as "younger cruisers". We were (are?!) due to go on our first ever cruise in July, we are a family of 4 (48, 46, 18, 16). I'm pretty thick skinned, and the comments on here don't bother me. 

 

Hope you enjoy it if and when you get to go newbie. We have had many a happy cruise with family's.

You will meet some lovely people of all ages . Have a good time .

[zap99]

16 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Having said that, many of us 70% will not be able to get insurance, so that makes a big difference. And then you have P&O raising their prices,  which will make cruising too expensive for first time cruisers. 

IMHO, the cruise lines that will survive, will be the bespoke lines, offering expensive cruises to a clientele that are rich enough not to have to worry about insurance issues, lost deposits etc. The others will be in a race to the bottom, trying to attract younger cruisers, who would be just as happy with an AI holiday in Tenerife as a cruise.

I quite agree,as you said earlier who knows. If the cruise companies target market can't cruise because of insurance issues, they should consider including covid 19 insurance as part of the deal. Tips included, drinks included, WIFI, covid insurance. That would help their sales. Most mega companies self insure to some extent, risk v reward. If 100 people need flying home at a cost of £1000 each that's £100k decided by 2000 punters = £50 a pop. Add it on the cruise fare. I'm sure that calculation is being done right now in Miami and Southampton.  As you said earlier, nobody knows right now. Trump is probably doing that calculation now😷

[zap99]

35 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Although that cruise will obviously not be going ahead!

You are probably right, but I'll wear my rose tinted spectacles until the end of May when the balance is due. I will take them off when we go in to see Gary.😁

[zap99]

15 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think us old uns would consider you young ! However, you will have a great time, but, unfortunately I can't see your cruise happening.

You may be ok for July, if not put it back to the end of August. You will enjoy Gary Barlow, but the kids will ask "Gary WHO".🤩.

 

Whoops, wrong quote. Getting old

Edited April 21, 2020 by zap99
Wrong quote

[happy v]

I can't believe all the 'when we were young' posts! Can you not remember your Grandparents saying the same thing, and thinking I'm never going to be that boring? So I don't know how old you all are but I have certainly not fallen into this trap yet. I hope I never will. 😉😏