Cruises Suspended Through June 30, 2020

[Ms BumbleBee]

28 minutes ago, Islandhop9 said:

"A lesser value refund". By this they mean if you want the full amount you paid for the cruise. You will not lose any real money!

Deceptive, it will be interesting how many lawsuits result from NCL practices.

Restricting the window to ask for a refund essentially means a refund will be ~104 days...

I agree.  Deceptive practices for sure.  If they were a bank they would be in hot water telling people that a full refund is lesser value.  

[EleventyBangBang]

OK, so...  what happens if I booked THIS cruise using CruiseNext certificates that would have expired later this year?

[mscdivina2016]

20 minutes ago, EleventyBangBang said:

OK, so...  what happens if I booked THIS cruise using CruiseNext certificates that would have expired later this year?

They will probably just redeposit or give them back to you and your stuck using them by the end of the year.

I just had a cruise cancelled that was paid for with all FCC. I also just got the email about 125%. Lets see if they give an additional 25% even though I used all FCC. 

Steve

[boatseller]

The reasons to conserve cash are a lot more complicated and less drastic than what's going back and forth.

 

Cruising will start July 1.  Not necessarily full operations, but cruising will start.  Why?  Because by then there will be a lot of people who have recovered and a lot of people who have determined for themselves they are low risk, and treatments will be available.  The cruise lines are already restricting high risk guests and testing will be available on board.

 

Here in Florida, hospitals aren't even close to capacity.

[Jobeth66]

42 minutes ago, boatseller said:

The reasons to conserve cash are a lot more complicated and less drastic than what's going back and forth.

 

Cruising will start July 1.  Not necessarily full operations, but cruising will start.  Why?  Because by then there will be a lot of people who have recovered and a lot of people who have determined for themselves they are low risk, and treatments will be available.  The cruise lines are already restricting high risk guests and testing will be available on board.

 

Here in Florida, hospitals aren't even close to capacity.

 

Cruising was going to start May 1.  Then May 10.  Then May 14.  Now July 1.

 

The CDC order extends through July 24.  Florida, along with a few other states, has not lifted its 14-day self-quarantine for arriving visitors.  No foreign ports are open to receive ships.  Cruise ship crews are not present and ready to resume operations.

 

The CDC requires a lot of things in order for cruising to begin again under that April 15 order.  The cruise lines are not prepared to meet those requirements.

 

Testing is as good as the minute the results are generated.  After that?  All bets are off, and you'll have to be tested every time you get on and off the ship, and if anyone on the ship tests positive at any of those times (or at any time at all during the cruise) that entire ship is going to be quarantined and the cruise line is going to have to figure out how to get all those passengers back home at their own expense without using commercial airlines, while also figuring out how to treat the passengers who are infected - either on the ship or at a hospital on shore that the cruise line pays for the passenger to be evacuated to, and that the cruise line has a contract in place with that guarantees they will take any infected passengers.

 

I'm doubting that cruises will start back up again on July 1.

[boatseller]

9 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

Testing is as good as the minute the results are generated.  After that?  All bets are off, and you'll have to be tested every time you get on and off the ship, and if anyone on the ship tests positive at any of those times (or at any time at all during the cruise) that entire ship is going to be quarantined and the cruise line is going to have to figure out how to get all those passengers back home at their own expense without using commercial airlines,

Sero testing is becoming widely available which is why the projected lethality will be dropping.

 

Those restrictions only applied to the ships that had yet to disembark when the guidance was issues.  When cruising restarts, a positive COVID-19 diagnosis can be about as consequential as Influenza or Norovirus, no quarantine or isolation are done for those.  Those that choose to cruise understand what that means.  It's turning out that cv is easier to manage that thought.

 

Anybody who's at risk should definitely stay away.  For others, life, and cruising, and theme parks, and camping, and the beach, and the gym will go on.

[Jobeth66]

12 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Sero testing is becoming widely available which is why the projected lethality will be dropping.

 

Those restrictions only applied to the ships that had yet to disembark when the guidance was issues.  When cruising restarts, a positive COVID-19 diagnosis can be about as consequential as Influenza or Norovirus, no quarantine or isolation are done for those.  Those that choose to cruise understand what that means.  It's turning out that cv is easier to manage that thought.

 

Anybody who's at risk should definitely stay away.  For others, life, and cruising, and theme parks, and camping, and the beach, and the gym will go on.

We don't know yet if antibodies = immunity, or for how long that immunity may be conferred, so the sero testing may not be that helpful.  

 

Those restrictions are part of the current CDC order - they are among the requirements the cruiselines must meet in order to start cruising again.  If you haven't read the full order, you might want to do so.  It's very explicit as to what the cruise lines must do before they can start up.  Including essentially a full ICU with ventilators & PPE on every ship. 

 

And until there is a vaccine and /treatment/ for the virus, it's going to be a much bigger deal than the flu or noro - those both have treatment plans, and neither of those is as contagious or as deadly as corona.  If cruising restarts after there is a viable vaccine, you might have a point - but that time is likely 12-24 months away.  

 

Everyone is at risk of being a carrier and/or a casualty of this virus.  

[spanishguy1970]

2 hours ago, EleventyBangBang said:

OK, so...  what happens if I booked THIS cruise using CruiseNext certificates that would have expired later this year?

mine expire next year and my TA told us she will ask for an extension on them. We have 4, however we don't know if we care enough about NCL to use them. When this passes, and  if cruises resumes we plan on trying another cruise line...

[latserrof]

42 minutes ago, boatseller said:

 

Those restrictions only applied to the ships that had yet to disembark when the guidance was issues. 

To reiterate, from the CDC No-Sail order, it applies to:
"All commercial, non-cargo, passenger-carrying vessels operating in international, interstate, or intrastate waterways and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States with the capacity to carry 250 or more individuals (passengers and crew) with an itinerary anticipating an overnight stay onboard or a twenty-four (24) hour stay onboard for either passengers or crew."

[boatseller]

37 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

We don't know yet if antibodies = immunity, or for how long that immunity may be conferred, so the sero testing may not be that helpful.  

 

Those restrictions are part of the current CDC order 

 

And until there is a vaccine and /treatment/ for the virus, it's going to be a much bigger deal than the flu or noro 

 

Everyone is at risk of being a carrier and/or a casualty of this virus.  

There is little to no evidence that re-infection rates are higher than any other coronavirus, which are otherwise very common.

 

Once the order expires, so do those requirements, hence, they only applied to vessels at sea when issued.  Also, no one, including guests, will put up with that.

 

Some people will try to make it a bigger deal, but even now ccv is well within the risk tolerances of most people.  If you put yourself in a high risk category, take precautions.

 

And everyone is at risk from a left turn, ccv not the most risky thing in daily life, even now.

 

[luv2kroooz]

2 hours ago, boatseller said:

The reasons to conserve cash are a lot more complicated and less drastic than what's going back and forth.

 

Cruising will start July 1.  Not necessarily full operations, but cruising will start.  Why?  Because by then there will be a lot of people who have recovered and a lot of people who have determined for themselves they are low risk, and treatments will be available.  The cruise lines are already restricting high risk guests and testing will be available on board.

 

Here in Florida, hospitals aren't even close to capacity.

The start of cruising has nothing to do with who has or hasn't recovered, how full or empty hospitals are, or any self-diagnosis. The CDC has shut down cruising from US ports and has charged the cruiselines to present a detailed plan of operations as they move forward. Princess, Carnival and Royal Caribbean have provided some insight on what that might be.

 

Cruising is stopped until one of the following occurs:

• The Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declares that COVID-19 no longer constitutes a public health emergency, or
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• 100 days have passed from April 15, the date the extended order was published in the Federal Registerexternal icon and went into effect. 100 days from April 15 is July 24

Edited April 24, 2020 by blcruising

[boatseller]

24 minutes ago, latserrof said:

To reiterate, from the CDC No-Sail order, it applies to:

Thankfully, this is a rule that expires.

How long is the No Sail Order in effect?

The extended Order is in effect until one of the following occurs:

• The Secretary of Health and Human Services declares that COVID-19 no longer constitutes a public health emergency, or
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• 100 days have passed from April 15, the date the extended order was published in the Federal Registerexternal icon and went into effect. 100 days from April 15 is July 24.

[boatseller]

11 minutes ago, blcruising said:

• 100 days have passed from April 15, the date the extended order was published in the Federal Registerexternal icon and went into effect. 100 days from April 15 is July 24

Exactly.  It expires on July 24, hence June 1.

 

Which is why it only applied to ship at sea when issued.

Edited April 24, 2020 by boatseller

[Jobeth66]

4 minutes ago, boatseller said:

There is little to no evidence that re-infection rates are higher than any other coronavirus, which are otherwise very common.

 

Once the order expires, so do those requirements, hence, they only applied to vessels at sea when issued.  Also, no one, including guests, will put up with that.

 

Some people will try to make it a bigger deal, but even now ccv is well within the risk tolerances of most people.  If you put yourself in a high risk category, take precautions.

 

And everyone is at risk from a left turn, ccv not the most risky thing in daily life, even now.

 

We don't know, so we err on the side of caution.

 

And that order was extended to 7/24.  It may be extended further, we don't know that, either - it'll be up to the CDC.  And no, they DIDN'T apply to those ships at sea.  Have you READ the order from 4/15?  These are the requirements of the CDC that the cruise lines must have in place in order to begin sailing.  I'm not sure why the CDC would back down from them, they are for the safety of passengers and crew, and to make sure the shore-side facilities are not impacted unnecessarily.

 

Even if this order expires, those requirements may remain.  I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.  The CDC isn't going to require ICU's on the ships now then say 'oh, ok, this order is expiring you can dismantle that ICU we made you have'.   These seem to be the minimum requirements for ships to ock in US ports.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

And it's not in the 'risk tolerance' of most people.  Most people are happy with the social distancing and stay at home orders.  Some people have no symptoms and no issues - but the people they infect might have tremendous issues, permanent damage, or die.

 

Last time I checked, left turns were not contagious.

[Jobeth66]

3 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Exactly.  It expires on July 24, hence July 1.

 

Which is why it only applied to ship at sea when issued.

It expires on July 24 so ships will be sailing on July 1?  That makes NO sense at all.

 

It applies to all cruise ships.  NOT just those at sea.

 

Honestly, if you haven't read the order, you might want to do so.

[boatseller]

1 minute ago, Jobeth66 said:

We don't know, so we err on the side of caution.

 

And that order was extended to 7/24.   they DIDN'T apply to those ships at sea.  Have you READ the order from 4/15?   in place in order to begin sailing. 

 

Even if this order expires, those requirements may remain.

 

but the people they infect might have tremendous issues, permanent damage, or die.

 

Last time I checked, left turns were not contagious.

You can err on the side of caution, but you don't get to decide that for everyone.

 

The title is: Interim Guidance for Mitigation of COVID-19 Among Cruise Ship Crew During the Period of the No Sail Order

 

When the order expires, so do those requirements.  Hence it effectively applied only ships at sea when the order was issued.

[boatseller]

8 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

It expires on July 24 so ships will be sailing on July 1?  That makes NO sense at all.

 

It applies to all cruise ships.  NOT just those at sea.

 

Honestly, if you haven't read the order, you might want to do so.

Corrected, expires June 24, cruising on July 1.  Dang Romans 🙂

 

There are no ship at sea right now.  It would apply if a ship for whatever reason set sail, which isn't going to happen.  Which is why it only applied to ships at sea when the order was issued and expires June 24.  Sorry, that's how it is.  Don't know what to tell you.  It's all pretty clear.

Edited April 24, 2020 by boatseller

[Jobeth66]

1 minute ago, boatseller said:

Corrected, June 1.

 

There are no ship at sea right now.  It would apply if a ship for whatever reason set sail, which isn't going to happen.  Which is why it only applied to ships at sea when the order was issues.  Sorry, that's how it is.  Don't know what to tell you.  It's all pretty clear.

 

I'm incredibly confused.  You think cruising is going to start on June 1, now, even though the large lines are all done until July?

 

You're making no sense.  The ports are closed, and will not reopen under the no-sail order, which is in place until JULY 24.  There will be no cruises until JULY 24 /at the earliest/ unless this order is lifted, and there's no reason to believe it will be - in fact, it's likely to be extended.

 

What is it that makes you think it only applied to ships that were underway when the order was published?  If THAT was the case, they could be sailing now, since all ships are docked, so they aren't sailing, so they can start sailing tomorrow, as the no-sail order doesn't apply to them, does it?

 

It's really clear.  Ships are under a full stop and may not board or debark passengers before 7/24/20 unless the order is lifted prior to that date.  I

[Jobeth66]

7 minutes ago, boatseller said:

Corrected, expires June 24, cruising on July 1.  Dang Romans 🙂

 

There are no ship at sea right now.  It would apply if a ship for whatever reason set sail, which isn't going to happen.  Which is why it only applied to ships at sea when the order was issued and expires June 24.  Sorry, that's how it is.  Don't know what to tell you.  It's all pretty clear.

 

No, it expires 100 days from publication in the Federal Register.  That 100 days is July 24.  Not June 24.

[boatseller]

Just now, Jobeth66 said:

 

I'm incredibly confused.  You think cruising is going to start on June 1, now, even though the large lines are all done until July?

 

You're making no sense.  The ports are closed, and will not reopen under the no-sail order, which is in place until JULY 24.  There will be no cruises until JULY 24 /at the earliest/ unless this order is lifted, and there's no reason to believe it will be - in fact, it's likely to be extended.

 

What is it that makes you think it only applied to ships that were underway when the order was published?  If THAT was the case, they could be sailing now, since all ships are docked, so they aren't sailing, so they can start sailing tomorrow, as the no-sail order doesn't apply to them, does it?

 

It's really clear.  Ships are under a full stop and may not board or debark passengers before 7/24/20 unless the order is lifted prior to that date.  I

I was a typo silly.  The NSO expires June 24 so cruising can resume July 1.

 

Because those were the only ships at sea when the order was issued.  No ship set sail since so it applies to no new ships. (Well, technically it would apply to disembarking crew but there's other forums for that.)

[boatseller]

Oh, right, whoops.  Still, dang Romans.  I read the date on the guidance wrong.  Definitely by August 1 then in the US, just in time for Scarlet Lady!  The order can always be modified (very likely) so let's all hope for July 1 and celebrating Independence Day at sea (I have other plans but other might).

 

Still, the extra requirements do expire with the order, so they only applied to ships at sea when it was issues.  So no quarantine, or isolated travel home or anything like that.

[Corliss]

 

One poster wrote, "Cruising was going to start May 1.  Then May 10.  Then May 14.  Now July 1."  Actually that is not the case.  NCL's declarative statement "we are extending the suspension of all sailings across our fleet through June 30, 2020 and plan to relaunch cruise operations with embarkations beginning July 1, 2020" is the first time they have given a relaunch date.

 

And as to the CDC being the one that decides whether to lift or extend orders I think people should remember how the last order came about.  CDC issued an order to extend the no sail for 120 days and included a statement that the order may be extended further.  They put it on their website and "within hours" it was pulled down and replaced with the current 100 days and the removal of the warning it could be extended.  USA obtained a memo from a CDC official informing the staff that they received a call from Vice President Pence's office which instructed them to shorten and soften the order.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/04/trumps-task-force-quietly-shortened-cdcs-no-sail-order-for-cruise-ships-report/

 

New scientific testing data indicates that the covid virus is actually already wide spread throughout the population....up to a fifth of us already have developed antibodies to it.  This means the actual fatality rate from the disease is more along the lines of .05% than the previously estimated 3-4%.  Eighteen states have less than 100 deaths.  In an interview Pence said that he thinks the coronavirus pandemic could "largely" be "behind us” by Memorial Day Weekend.

 

A cruise ship is likely to be one of the safest places to be.  Staff and guests will be carefully screened and on board medical staff are being trained on covid-19.  Sanitation standards are very high and the cruise lines are currently working with the CDC.  On the other hand people might want to avoid New York/New Jersey, the covid petri dish of the nation (half of all the cases and half of all the deaths in the whole country.)

 

I think the evidence is pretty clear that the expectation of the cruise lines and the government is that cruising will be returning in July of this year.

[luv2kroooz]

1 hour ago, boatseller said:

Still, the extra requirements do expire with the order, so they only applied to ships at sea when it was issues. 

The order has already expired and been extended one time. Again, it is applicable to all cruise ships intending to operate from US ports. The cruise lines are currently working on long-term, post Coronavirus plans....from embarkation processes, to stateroom cleaning, to cleaning of lounge chairs, to buffet service, and the list goes on. Until the cruiselines convince CDC, they are shut down.

 

I find your posts to be confusing and unclear. If you are suggesting this is something short term or not applicable, you don't know what you are talking about. Don't believe me, just read up on Princess and Carnivals draft guidance or Royals YouTube videos from their CEO. NCL is working on something through CLIA. We just haven't heard anything about it yet.

 

The industry has tens of thousands of cabins to fill each week. They can't survive on the thousand or so die hard cruisecritic members that want to sail tomorrow.

Edited April 24, 2020 by blcruising

[podgeandrodge]

In terms of refunds, does anyone know, if the cruise was booked through a travel agent, whether NCL refund the traveller or the travel agent who in due course has to refund the traveller? 

[hallux]

1 hour ago, podgeandrodge said:

In terms of refunds, does anyone know, if the cruise was booked through a travel agent, whether NCL refund the traveller or the travel agent who in due course has to refund the traveller? 

That depends on how the finances were handled.  Many travel agents take your credit card number and charge the cruise to that number directly to the cruise line rather than going through their own billing/charge system. 

 

If the cruise was charged directly to the traveler's credit card, the traveler needs to work with the cruise line to get the cash refund.  If the TA charged the traveler then paid the cruise line, the TA owes the traveler the refund then gets to fight the cruise line for their refund.