Hagia Sophia/Turkish court

[dogs4fun]

Turkish court weighs bid to turn Hagia Sophia into a mosque

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-museum/turkish-court-weighs-bid-to-turn-hagia-sophia-into-a-mosque-idUSKBN243138

[bennybear]

Such a beautiful historic building built as an orthodox cathedral, and one for nearly 1000 years.   Later a mosque and now a museum.   

[dogs4fun]

16 hours ago, bennybear said:

Such a beautiful historic building built as an orthodox cathedral, and one for nearly 1000 years.   Later a mosque and now a museum.   

Sure hope that it remains a museum so that all can fully enjoy visiting the Hagia Sophia in the future.

Edited July 3, 2020 by dogs4fun

[cruisemom42]

This is quite concerning. My worry is that they would not preserve a number of the early historical elements of the building that reflect its Christian beginnings if it is converted -- such as the figurative mosaics that were "uncovered" after being plastered over when the building became a mosque originally. 

[dogs4fun]

36 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

This is quite concerning. My worry is that they would not preserve a number of the early historical elements of the building that reflect its Christian beginnings if it is converted -- such as the figurative mosaics that were "uncovered" after being plastered over when the building became a mosque originally. 

My concern as well.

[cruisemom42]

After reading this earlier today, I did some additional reading online. I had not realized that a court similar to the one making this decision about Haghia Sofia has already made a similar ruling about Kariye (Chora) museum, which was similarly church, then mosque, then museum:

 

"And in a possible portent of Hagia Sophia’s fate, a sister court ruled last year that the secular status of another church-turned-mosque-turned-museum should be revoked. The court said that Istanbul's Kariye Museum, a former Byzantine church famed for its prized mosaics, “cannot be used except for its essential function” — as a mosque."

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/01/from-museum-to-mosque-turkish-court-to-rule-on-hagia-sophias-fate-346936

 

Chora, while not as iconic as Haghia Sofia, is also a masterpiece that should be open to all.

 

[bennybear]

Thanks for the information,  will be a great loss if this happens.    

[dogs4fun]

The mosaics in the Chora church are absolutely stunning. I was not aware that its museum status had been revoked - what a shame. Interesting article ...

https://greekcitytimes.com/2019/11/18/turkey-greek-chora-church-to-be-converted-into-a-mosque-is-hagia-sophia-the-next/

[dogs4fun]

Unfortunately, it is now a done deal - Erdogan formally declared Hagia Sophia a mosque.

https://apnews.com/4bc9aeea3f21e438187a6c2b76c52aa0

[bennybear]

Sorry to hear this.   We so enjoyed visiting there and Istanbul.  So hard on many of the Turkish  lack of tourism,    This doesn’t help. 

[cruisemom42]

20 hours ago, dogs4fun said:

Unfortunately, it is now a done deal - Erdogan formally declared Hagia Sophia a mosque.

https://apnews.com/4bc9aeea3f21e438187a6c2b76c52aa0

 

I wonder if UNESCO will kick up any sort of a fuss. I read today that they have said the monument could risk losing its status and that its designation is dependent on the agreement that “no modification is made to the outstanding universal value of the property.”

 

UNESCO also said that communities and others concerned with the property should be ensured inclusive and equitable access to the monument.

 

I hope that happens, but suspect the position will slowly be eroded over time.

[Lonedaddy]

If they don't allow tourists the cruise lines should boycott Istanbul.  I'm on a cruise there in June, if they do this hopefully the change the port to crete or some other site.

[dogs4fun]

32 minutes ago, Lonedaddy said:

If they don't allow tourists the cruise lines should boycott Istanbul.  I'm on a cruise there in June, if they do this hopefully the change the port to crete or some other site.

My main concern is centered around destruction of the remaining Christian mosaics. It appears that for the time being, the mosaics will be covered during prayer but remain available for viewing to tourists.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/turkey-cover-hagia-sophia-christian-icons-prayers-200714080942121.html

Edited July 14, 2020 by dogs4fun

[bennybear]

There have been such few cruises visits to Turkey the last few years and Istanbul has just begun showing up on some itineraries next year.   Such a fantastic city but lots of concerns.   The cruise lines will monitor closely I am sure.  

[cruisemom42]

11 hours ago, Lonedaddy said:

If they don't allow tourists the cruise lines should boycott Istanbul.  I'm on a cruise there in June, if they do this hopefully the change the port to crete or some other site.

 

Although I am not happy about Haghia Sofia, there are many other things worth seeing in Istanbul. I'd rather go there than Crete 10 times out of 10.

[dogs4fun]

There is so much to see in Istanbul

On 7/14/2020 at 7:53 AM, Lonedaddy said:

I'm on a cruise there in June, if they do this hopefully the change the port to crete or some other site.

There is so much to see in Istanbul that it boggles the mind - you will not be disappointed if your ship ports here. You will have to choose wisely due to the many historic & interesting venues the city has to offer. Our favorite visits to Istanbul allowed us the ability to explore the area in depth over several days.

There are things to see and do that suit almost every conceivable taste. Below are just a few:

Hagia Sophia

Little Hagia Sophia (built by Justinian - our guide said it is the oldest remaining structure from the Byzantine period)

Chora Church

Blue Mosque

Topkapi Palace

Basilica Cistern

Hippodrome

Archaeology Museum

Suleymaniye Mosque

Dolmabahce Palace

Grand Bazaar

Spice Bazaar

Ferikoy Flea Market

Cicek Pasaji

Galata Mevlevi Lodge -  (great museum  - whirling dervishes - Sunday, 5pm)

Museum of Turkish/Islamic Arts

Galata Tower

Yedikule Fortress

Take a cruise on the Bosphorus

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by dogs4fun

[bennybear]

Agree about the wonders of Istanbul,  loved the underground wells and the spice market as well as Hagia Sofia and the blue mosque.  My concern is the political situation.  

 

But I also am in love with Crete, we’ve now spent six weeks there and still more to see and do.   Amazing ruins and then the beaches.   But agree a quick port visit to Heraklion doesn’t cut it! 

Edited July 15, 2020 by bennybear

[MeHeartCruising]

I just booked a couple B2B cruises where the turnaround day is in Istanbul.  We arrive there at the end of the first cruise and then overnight before disembarking the next day.  Since I'm on the next cruise as well, I hope to be able to get off the ship on that second day and then return before sailing.  We'll see how they work that.  

 

I'm glad that I have previously been in Istanbul and was able to see Hagia Sofia when it was still a museum, including going upstairs to see the Christian mosaics.  I probably will focus on things that I didn't see on my first trip to Istanbul instead of trying to return to Hagia Sofia.  I hope to see the Topkapi Palace and Harem this trip since I missed that before.  Then I'll add in a few other things after that.  Hopefully the politics of Turkey don't get worse by then (October 2021).