Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Arizona Wildcat]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I was under the impression from the beginning that the shipment of first doses from Pfizer and Moderna would be followed about 3-4 weeks later with shipment of the exact same number of the second doses that were being held by the companies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/explainer-covid-19-vaccine-shipped-us-74701400

 

OK I will vent here- Sorry everybody.  I do not understand at all what is going on in my state (PA) or anywhere else.  It is frustrating and almost criminal to see a lot of delivered doses not being used with over 3000 deaths per day in the US.  Unbelievable really.  The CDC gave guidelines to the states months ago.  But each state seems to be unprepared or worse.  This should be a national plan that is well coordinated.  States are showing they are not capable of treating this as their highest priority emergency situation as they should.  Above all else.  No days off.  But the governors were quick to declare emergencies earlier this year and shut us all down.  Now with vaccine in hand they are slow to respond.  Oh yes most of them did get themselves vaccinated.  OK venting over.  I feel a little better.  Happy New Year!

Arizona is storing some 100K doses for the second dose.  A bit crazy.  Know at least some other states doing it the same way.

We might have an advantage as the first two groups - those in care facilities and medical staff and first responders are easy to identify and locations are pretty simple.  We also only have county health departments that have coordinated various mass innoculations programs in the past.  Everything here seems organized and "on schedule".  Although as said that schedule could have been moved forward.  Care facilities have dates scheduled.  Our local firefighters and police have already started with groups organized.

I do agree that pretty much taking time off for the holidays was a bad choice and seems to have been done by all parties involved from pharmacies to care facilities.  

Canada has different setups for each province.  Friends in BC were told May for vaccination.  They think border closed till at least summer.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Arizona Wildcat

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I was under the impression from the beginning that the shipment of first doses from Pfizer and Moderna would be followed about 3-4 weeks later with shipment of the exact same number of the second doses that were being held by the companies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/explainer-covid-19-vaccine-shipped-us-74701400

 

OK I will vent here- Sorry everybody.  I do not understand at all what is going on in my state (PA) or anywhere else.  It is frustrating and almost criminal to see a lot of delivered doses not being used with over 3000 deaths per day in the US.  Unbelievable really.  The CDC gave guidelines to the states months ago.  But each state seems to be unprepared or worse.  This should be a national plan that is well coordinated.  States are showing they are not capable of treating this as their highest priority emergency situation as they should.  Above all else.  No days off.  But the governors were quick to declare emergencies earlier this year and shut us all down.  Now with vaccine in hand they are slow to respond.  Oh yes most of them did get themselves vaccinated.  OK venting over.  I feel a little better.  Happy New Year!

 

It could just be a lag in reporting doses given. I had some hand surgery three weeks ago and both my surgeon and my physical therapist have received their first shot. So health workers in group 1A are getting the vaccine. 

[nomad098]

Could be worse, you could be living in France

 

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20210103-france-vows-to-boost-pace-of-vaccinations-after-slow-rollout-fiasco

 

 

[LGW59]

1 hour ago, Porky55 said:

In the mean time, here in virtually virus free Australia (20 or so cases today) our leader is patiently waiting and watching the rest of the World distribute and receive the vaccine before giving the go ahead to his population. By the sound of the current discussions, perhaps this is the right decision.
Although we don’t have the imperative of cases and deaths you are experiencing in the US, fortunately.
Also know that when vaccination does begin, it will be distributed with intelligence, calm and precision ........ fingers, eyes and toes crossed 🙄🤔

 

The US and pandemic and vaccine, where to begin?  Without being political, because this is about the people not the politicians.  Seems to me that the vast majority fall into two camps, one feels not that it is a "hoax" but it is overblown, death certificates are being issued with false/misleading information re actual cause of death. The other camp is on the opposite side of the spectrum.  Our president is being contradicted on death count by his own Surgeon General, then other very smart people say we are going about it wrong with the "sort of" lockdowns.  Who is right, I do not know for sure, but I have always erred on the side of caution and right now, never more so.  Fingers, eyes and toes crossed indeed, and toss in a couple of prayers for ALL!!!

[Porky55]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

The US and pandemic and vaccine, where to begin?  Without being political, because this is about the people not the politicians.  Seems to me that the vast majority fall into two camps, one feels not that it is a "hoax" but it is overblown, death certificates are being issued with false/misleading information re actual cause of death. The other camp is on the opposite side of the spectrum.  Our president is being contradicted on death count by his own Surgeon General, then other very smart people say we are going about it wrong with the "sort of" lockdowns.  Who is right, I do not know for sure, but I have always erred on the side of caution and right now, never more so.  Fingers, eyes and toes crossed indeed, and toss in a couple of prayers for ALL!!!

LGW59 - you have most countries and leaders down to a tee - just the location changes 😉

Continuously hear in Aus that we have been particularly lucky because we are islands. For once our isolation is our advantage.

Sending prayers your way 🙏

[TeaBag]

On 1/1/2021 at 5:49 AM, Doubt It said:

 

phoenix_dream, Support your assessment 100%, thank you for posting.

The vaccine distribution does seem willy nilly in terms of any consistency from location to location.

 

For example, my 93 year old father is in a retirement home, I guess he will eventually get the vaccine. I however, just got an email from the retirement home saying I can get the vaccine asap as I visit my father. Not sure I am pleased with putting me first. 

 

I support as #1 priority the elderly and immune compromised before any one else. Not seeing this happening.

DH is immune compromised, also over 75 and we have no idea how to access the vaccine.  So we just wait and hope we will get it by April or so.

[TeeRick]

6 hours ago, LGW59 said:

 

My in-laws are 90 and 86 and both have health issues - but living at home in Massachusetts.  So hopefully in Phase 2.  They are in line behind correction facility inmates in Phase 1.  

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Porky55 said:

LGW59 - you have most countries and leaders down to a tee - just the location changes 😉

Continuously hear in Aus that we have been particularly lucky because we are islands. For once our isolation is our advantage.

Sending prayers your way 🙏

Keeping out the virus while the rest of the world gets vaccinated is a good strategy.  

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

The US and pandemic and vaccine, where to begin?  Without being political, because this is about the people not the politicians.  Seems to me that the vast majority fall into two camps, one feels not that it is a "hoax" but it is overblown, death certificates are being issued with false/misleading information re actual cause of death. The other camp is on the opposite side of the spectrum.  Our president is being contradicted on death count by his own Surgeon General, then other very smart people say we are going about it wrong with the "sort of" lockdowns.  Who is right, I do not know for sure, but I have always erred on the side of caution and right now, never more so.  Fingers, eyes and toes crossed indeed, and toss in a couple of prayers for ALL!!!

LGW it doesn't really help for us to torture ourselves looking back at some of the government (federal, state, county, local)  ineptitude or incorrect focus or bad and/or inconsistent decisions.  But we have vaccines in hand now and they are just not being injected fast enough even in the high priority first phase.  This needs to change.  Our leaders at every level need to make this a high urgency commitment to use every last dose of vaccine and wait for more- and then use every dose again.  

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

My in-laws are 90 and 86 and both have health issues - but living at home in Massachusetts.  So hopefully in Phase 2.  They are in line behind correction facility inmates in Phase 1.  

 They are in line behind correction facility inmates in Phase 1.  Do not get me started on this one!!  It is not because they are inmates, I respect them as people, people who made a mistakes in their life, truly I do.  I believe in re-education and rehabilitation, but there is a time and place for everything.  Right now, your in-laws are contributing members of society and should not be placed further down the line.  I believe overall our Gov has done a good job these past many months, but this one has me flummoxed!!  My daughter is a school teacher and prisoners come before her.  I talked to her today and she was like, come on Dad, really, I come before grammy, that is not right!!!

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

 They are in line behind correction facility inmates in Phase 1.  Do not get me started on this one!!  It is not because they are inmates, I respect them as people, people who made a mistakes in their life, truly I do.  I believe in re-education and rehabilitation, but there is a time and place for everything.  Right now, your in-laws are contributing members of society and should not be placed further down the line.  I believe overall our Gov has done a good job these past many months, but this one has me flummoxed!!  My daughter is a school teacher and prisoners come before her.  I talked to her today and she was like, come on Dad, really, I come before grammy, that is not right!!!

The prisoner issue is complex.  But the prison guards should be vaccinated as first responders. No problem. The prisoners should be vaccinated like the rest of us by their priority group.  Or if they are about to be released back into society they should quarantine for 14 days perhaps in a COVID-free isolation block and be tested multiple times before release.  I am sure this will stir up some here but these are my feelings anyway.

[markeb]

Can I just say for the record that it's fascinating we're having a discussion about distribution priorities for a vaccine against a virus that was really only recognized about a year ago? Take a deep breath and think about that. The average vaccine development timeline has been 15-20 years! The world is discussing (or arguing about) how best to prioritize use of a vaccine in 12 months!

 

When this thread started in July, folks like TeeRick, NOCL, cangelmd, etc., and even me, would never have dreamed we could be discussing distribution and and use priorities six months later!

 

Not saying there aren't real issues here, but I'm putting them on the margins compared to the realization that we have not one, but multiple vaccines available!

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

LGW it doesn't really help for us to torture ourselves looking back at some of the government (federal, state, county, local)  ineptitude or incorrect focus or bad and/or inconsistent decisions.  But we have vaccines in hand now and they are just not being injected fast enough even in the high priority first phase.  This needs to change.  Our leaders at every level need to make this a high urgency commitment to use every last dose of vaccine and wait for more- and then use every dose again.  

 

I think the problem is there are too many tiers. For mass imunization to work they need to get rid of the bureacratic plan and have two tiers. First phase everyone 65 and older, long term care and health care workers in one phase, then phase 2 the rest of the public. 

[markeb]

3 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

I think the problem is there are too many tiers. For mass imunization to work they need to get rid of the bureacratic plan and have two tiers. First phase everyone 65 and older, long term care and health care workers in one phase, then phase 2 the rest of the public. 

 

From a previous life in uniform not involving the USPHS...

 

Planning is everything; planning is nothing.

 

No plan survives first contact.

 

And, probably an urban legend but attributed to Eisenhower regarding OVERLORD:

 

If I'd had more time, the plan would have been shorter. (or I'd have written a shorter plan; I've seen it both ways)

 

 

Planning is absolutely necessary. Continually reviewing actual execution and adapting to the reality on the ground is the mark of actual strategic and tactical art. It will happen.

[Charles4515]

26 minutes ago, markeb said:

Can I just say for the record that it's fascinating we're having a discussion about distribution priorities for a vaccine against a virus that was really only recognized about a year ago? Take a deep breath and think about that. The average vaccine development timeline has been 15-20 years! The world is discussing (or arguing about) how best to prioritize use of a vaccine in 12 months!

 

When this thread started in July, folks like TeeRick, NOCL, cangelmd, etc., and even me, would never have dreamed we could be discussing distribution and and use priorities six months later!

 

Not saying there aren't real issues here, but I'm putting them on the margins compared to the realization that we have not one, but multiple vaccines available!

If the vaccines are not being distributed having them is being wasted.
 

We have two spacious community centers in my neighborhood that could be used as 24 hour vaccination centers. A huge parking lot that is empty that belongs to the national headquarters of a major company whose workers are working from home could be used for drive up vaccination. I don’t see anything being organized to distribute the vaccines. 

[Wine-O]

20 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

If the vaccines are not being distributed having them is being wasted.
 

We have two spacious community centers in my neighborhood that could be used as 24 hour vaccination centers. A huge parking lot that is empty that belongs to the national headquarters of a major company whose workers are working from home could be used for drive up vaccination. I don’t see anything being organized to distribute the vaccines. 

It's the States responsibility to distribute the vaccines.  Some are good and others are incompetent.  🍷

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, markeb said:

Can I just say for the record that it's fascinating we're having a discussion about distribution priorities for a vaccine against a virus that was really only recognized about a year ago? Take a deep breath and think about that. The average vaccine development timeline has been 15-20 years! The world is discussing (or arguing about) how best to prioritize use of a vaccine in 12 months!

 

When this thread started in July, folks like TeeRick, NOCL, cangelmd, etc., and even me, would never have dreamed we could be discussing distribution and and use priorities six months later!

 

Not saying there aren't real issues here, but I'm putting them on the margins compared to the realization that we have not one, but multiple vaccines available!

Well said. For our "laid back" part we're going to contact our Primary Care Provider tomorrow to see if we can get on their "over 65" vaccine call list so they can notify us when it's our time to come in and get our shot. We've also Liked our state's health department FB page so we can stay on top of any local developments. 

 

To be honest the last thing we want to do is sit in some long line for hours on end just to find out they ran out just before it was our turn. But our guess is that it also won't happen for our 1C group until sometime in February and probably after J&J gets an EUA for their single dose vaccine. And that's cool. As long as we have a vaccine flowing through our veins so we're ready to go IF our Alaska Millennium cruise in May is actually cleared to sail, we're happy. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[markeb]

30 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

If the vaccines are not being distributed having them is being wasted.
 

We have two spacious community centers in my neighborhood that could be used as 24 hour vaccination centers. A huge parking lot that is empty that belongs to the national headquarters of a major company whose workers are working from home could be used for drive up vaccination. I don’t see anything being organized to distribute the vaccines. 

 

Isn't Maryland still in 1a? I thought Maryland was still vaccinating health care providers and first responders at medical facilities, and long term care facility residents at their facilities. So they wouldn't actually be moving to drive up vaccinations yet, unless they're further along than I thought.

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, TeaBag said:

DH is immune compromised, also over 75 and we have no idea how to access the vaccine.  So we just wait and hope we will get it by April or so.

This is what is criminal, and it falls directly on the states as well as local government.  I have an aunt in San Diego who is 82 I think and she has no idea how to get the vaccine or who to call.  She has been isolated from family for 10 months.  I told her she had to be her own advocate.  Same to  you TeaBag - scream loud and scream often.  Be the squeaky wheel.  I hate all of this and have no intent on taking the vaccine myself but jiminy make it more accessible for those who do.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Isn't Maryland still in 1a? I thought Maryland was still vaccinating health care providers and first responders at medical facilities, and long term care facility residents at their facilities. So they wouldn't actually be moving to drive up vaccinations yet, unless they're further along than I thought.

Maryland is near the bottom of the states list of doses used. 29%. So they are not doing well with 1a. Limiting the vaccines to health care providers and first responders, those in 1a, has become a bottleneck. I am saying a greater number of doses would be used if they broadened the tiers. Don’t wait to finish 1a before starting 1b. Do 1a and 1b in parallel to speed distribution. 
 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Charles4515

[emmas gran]

This is the vaccine plan in England

 

1. Residents in care homes for older adults and their carers
2. 80-year-olds and over and frontline health and social care workers
3. 75-year-olds and over
4. 70-year-olds and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
5. 65-year-olds and over
6. 16- to 64-year-olds with serious underlying health conditions
7. 60-year-olds and over
8. 55-year-olds and over
9. 50-year-olds and over

People aged over 80 in hospital, frontline health staff and care home workers have been the first to get the Pfizer jab at 70 designated hospitals hubs across the UK.

 

 

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, markeb said:

Can I just say for the record that it's fascinating we're having a discussion about distribution priorities for a vaccine against a virus that was really only recognized about a year ago? Take a deep breath and think about that. The average vaccine development timeline has been 15-20 years! The world is discussing (or arguing about) how best to prioritize use of a vaccine in 12 months!

 

When this thread started in July, folks like TeeRick, NOCL, cangelmd, etc., and even me, would never have dreamed we could be discussing distribution and and use priorities six months later!

 

Not saying there aren't real issues here, but I'm putting them on the margins compared to the realization that we have not one, but multiple vaccines available!

Yes Mark I totally agree and have been saying the same thing here.  It is extraordinary to have these vaccines so quickly.  I am very grateful to those who made it happen.  That being said, it is even more frustrating to me that all of these great people made this happen in less than a year, and the vaccines in some states are sitting unused in freezers.  People are sick and dying.  States and local efforts need to step it up big time.

[TeeRick]

NE Journal of Medicine publication of the Moderna vaccine Phase 3 data.  For those science jocks that want to read  and analyze the published data.  Dec 30 2020.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2035389

[TeeRick]

Here is an interesting tidbit from Operation Warp Speed.  About using two half doses of the Moderna vaccine in people 18-55 to increase coverage of the vaccine.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/03/moderna-vaccine-doses-warp-speed-half-453979

[Laurab23]

15 hours ago, TeeRick said:

The prisoner issue is complex.  But the prison guards should be vaccinated as first responders. No problem. The prisoners should be vaccinated like the rest of us by their priority group.  Or if they are about to be released back into society they should quarantine for 14 days perhaps in a COVID-free isolation block and be tested multiple times before release.  I am sure this will stir up some here but these are my feelings anyway.

TeeRick, as always I respect what you have to say.

 

Laura