CDC’s perspective is not encouraging for HAL

[wyobean]

I truly would not be sending any money to any cruise line right now. Is it fraud? Not really. Many people wanted to take advantage of that extra 25% and they are willing to take the chance by booking. At this point we all have our eyes wide open. It really can’t be fraud when you know everything the cruise line knows.

[Mandalay1903]

1 hour ago, SilvertoGold said:

HAL Seattle has been working on getting crew home 7 days a week, no time off, since March and they are still working on it. That is a combination of departments with a Senior VP running the show.  I expect all issues are being worked on, one day at a time.

My comment was not a criticism of the great efforts that have been made to make it safe for, and to repatriate, crew. I commented that these tasks are difficult and take a long time.

 

My comment is that it may be equally or more difficult and time consuming to plan for and make the cruising process (including travel and shore excursions) safe enough for the paying passengers, and to get the CDC to sign off. Particularly when "serious resumption of cruise discussions" haven't even begun (according to Donald's public statement).

[jimmy2x]

I MAY book a cruise for February of next year. But actually going on the cruise remains contingent on a vaccine prior to final payment. Have no desire for a cruise with social distancing and masks. 

 

[MISTER 67]

6 hours ago, wesport said:

At this stage of the game, I think I would feel safer on a cruise ship than living in Florida. 

We live in Sebring which is south central in the state about an hour south of Disney. We live on a golf course and I'm playing my usual 4 rounds a week. We use social distancing on the tees and greens and ride in our own carts. What I don't do is have a beer after the round with the guys in the Clubhouse. So far I don't know anyone who has had the virus, right now we have had about 400,000 cases out of a population of 21,000,000, that's a percentage rate of 0.0190476. I think what a lot of people forget is that while we have had 400,000 cases in Florida, that number is since March, that does not mean we have 400,000 active cases,  probably more like 150,000-200,000 as thousands have beat the virus along with the 4500 unfortunate deaths. I do a Publix or Walmart trip once a week, I asked one of the checkout ladies who we know how many employees have had the virus, the answer was none.

Edited July 24, 2020 by MISTER 67

[Torquer]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

We live in Sebring which is south central in the state about an hour south of Disney. We live on a golf course and I'm playing my usual 4 rounds a week. We use social distancing on the tees and greens and ride in our own carts. What I don't do is have a beer after the round with the guys in the Clubhouse. So far I don't know anyone who has had the virus, right now we have had about 400,000 cases out of a population of 21,000,000, that's a percentage rate of 0.0190476. I think what a lot of people forget is that while we have had 400,000 cases in Florida, that number is since March, that does not mean we have 400,000 active cases,  probably more like 150,000-200,000 as thousands have beat the virus along with the 4500 unfortunate deaths. I do a Publix or Walmart trip once a week, I asked one of the checkout ladies who we know how many employees have had the virus, the answer was none.

 

To nitpick on your math, it is 1.9%, not 0.019%.

[Hlitner]

8 hours ago, wesport said:

At this stage of the game, I think I would feel safer on a cruise ship than living in Florida. 

One has to be very careful when evaluating statistics...not to mention the spin put on many issues by the media.  I will give you an example.  We are just finishing a week in Myrtle Beach....which has often been called a COVID-19 hot zone and received lots of negative press from the main stream media.  We rented a nice Condo in the northern part of MB (our usual area) and have spent the last week on the beach and visiting our favorite restaurants (all of which are open).  The beach has been relatively empty and social distancing on the beach and in the water is easy.  With one exception none of our favorite restaurants have been crowded and we were able to get dinner reservations everywhere.  We did come here with some concerns but quickly realized that the media paints a false picture.  In MB it seems that the only real problem is with younger folks (they mostly stay downtown about 2 miles from our location) who simply ignore basic social distancing and mask regulations.  This week has been one of our most delightful visits (we have been coming here for over 30 years).  

 

But as a frequent cruiser (for over forty years) we do have lots of concerns about our future bookings and the future of the industry.  Cruise ships cannot accommodate social distancing and are essentially floating petri dishes.  If somebody gets COVID-19 here in Myrtle Beach it has little impact on the other folks in the city.  But if somebody gets COVID-19 on a cruise ship it might mean being stuck at sea for weeks, being quarantined in a relatively small cabin, etc. etc.  The reality is that once you board a cruise ship you lose all your personal control (and many of your rights).  Here in MB if we feel uncomfortable when we enter a restaurant or shop we can simply turn around and go elsewhere.  When we want to go home we can simply jump in our car and drive home (while maintaining social distancing).  

 

Since late February we have had 3 cruises cancelled (totally 74 days) by HAL and Princess!  We do not see anything changing (vis-a-vis) COVID-19 in the near future and doubt there will be a safe/effective vaccine in widespread use in the next year (we can talk about that in another thread).  We had thought about grabbing a flight to Europe in late August or early September and just doing a few week driving trip, but travel restrictions have made that impossible.  We were planning to drive up to Canada in September for an annual wine tasting trip but Canada has made it clear we (Americans) are not wanted.  But fortunately we still have a huge country (called the USA) with lots of travel options (we will drive).  Spending our money in the USA is a good thing (it helps our economy) and helps others keep their jobs.  Bottom line is when situations change (such as with COVID-19) folks need to roll with the waves and find new options.  Those that want to sit home and hide in their basements get my support because it makes it easier for us to travel and get into decent restaurants :).  As to the Governors who have made their States unfriendly to travel, we are content to pass them by and spend our money in more welcoming places (Myrtle Beach has been very welcoming).

 

We still have a 2 week Caribbean cruise (MSC) scheduled for early December.  That cruise may or may not happen.  If not we will likely keep our current flights and simply do a multi-week Florida trip (we already have reservations in Key West for a pre-cruise visit).  We are still debating whether to make the final payment on that December cruise.  While we would feel pretty safe being in the Yacht Club (social distancing in that part of the ship is not difficult) I am not sure we want to gamble with being stuck at sea for a month (or longer) because some poor soul gets sick on our voyage.

 

So brighten up folks and look on the positive side.  There are usually good opportunities (in travel) for those that look and take advantage of the options.  For adventurous travelers this is all a major annoyance, but it can be overcome.  For those with little imagination or a very low risk tolerance.....perhaps the basement is the best option.

 

Hank

[MISTER 67]

6 minutes ago, Torquer said:

 

To nitpick on your math, it is 1.9%, not 0.019%.

 

8 minutes ago, Torquer said:

 

To nitpick on your math, it is 1.9%, not 0.019%.

Get your calculator out, 400,000 devided by 21,000,000 (population of Florida) comes out to 0.0190476 which in easier terms is almost 2%.

[MISTER 67]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

One has to be very careful when evaluating statistics...not to mention the spin put on many issues by the media.  I will give you an example.  We are just finishing a week in Myrtle Beach....which has often been called a COVID-19 hot zone and received lots of negative press from the main stream media.  We rented a nice Condo in the northern part of MB (our usual area) and have spent the last week on the beach and visiting our favorite restaurants (all of which are open).  The beach has been relatively empty and social distancing on the beach and in the water is easy.  With one exception none of our favorite restaurants have been crowded and we were able to get dinner reservations everywhere.  We did come here with some concerns but quickly realized that the media paints a false picture.  In MB it seems that the only real problem is with younger folks (they mostly stay downtown about 2 miles from our location) who simply ignore basic social distancing and mask regulations.  This week has been one of our most delightful visits (we have been coming here for over 30 years).  

 

But as a frequent cruiser (for over forty years) we do have lots of concerns about our future bookings and the future of the industry.  Cruise ships cannot accommodate social distancing and are essentially floating petri dishes.  If somebody gets COVID-19 here in Myrtle Beach it has little impact on the other folks in the city.  But if somebody gets COVID-19 on a cruise ship it might mean being stuck at sea for weeks, being quarantined in a relatively small cabin, etc. etc.  The reality is that once you board a cruise ship you lose all your personal control (and many of your rights).  Here in MB if we feel uncomfortable when we enter a restaurant or shop we can simply turn around and go elsewhere.  When we want to go home we can simply jump in our car and drive home (while maintaining social distancing).  

 

Since late February we have had 3 cruises cancelled (totally 74 days) by HAL and Princess!  We do not see anything changing (vis-a-vis) COVID-19 in the near future and doubt there will be a safe/effective vaccine in widespread use in the next year (we can talk about that in another thread).  We had thought about grabbing a flight to Europe in late August or early September and just doing a few week driving trip, but travel restrictions have made that impossible.  We were planning to drive up to Canada in September for an annual wine tasting trip but Canada has made it clear we (Americans) are not wanted.  But fortunately we still have a huge country (called the USA) with lots of travel options (we will drive).  Spending our money in the USA is a good thing (it helps our economy) and helps others keep their jobs.  Bottom line is when situations change (such as with COVID-19) folks need to roll with the waves and find new options.  Those that want to sit home and hide in their basements get my support because it makes it easier for us to travel and get into decent restaurants :).  As to the Governors who have made their States unfriendly to travel, we are content to pass them by and spend our money in more welcoming places (Myrtle Beach has been very welcoming).

 

We still have a 2 week Caribbean cruise (MSC) scheduled for early December.  That cruise may or may not happen.  If not we will likely keep our current flights and simply do a multi-week Florida trip (we already have reservations in Key West for a pre-cruise visit).  We are still debating whether to make the final payment on that December cruise.  While we would feel pretty safe being in the Yacht Club (social distancing in that part of the ship is not difficult) I am not sure we want to gamble with being stuck at sea for a month (or longer) because some poor soul gets sick on our voyage.

 

So brighten up folks and look on the positive side.  There are usually good opportunities (in travel) for those that look and take advantage of the options.  For adventurous travelers this is all a major annoyance, but it can be overcome.  For those with little imagination or a very low risk tolerance.....perhaps the basement is the best option.

 

Hank

We're still scared to eat out or stay in a hotel. Part of the reason is the media and Dr. Fraudi have scared us to death.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, wyobean said:

I truly would not be sending any money to any cruise line right now. Is it fraud? Not really. Many people wanted to take advantage of that extra 25% and they are willing to take the chance by booking. At this point we all have our eyes wide open. It really can’t be fraud when you know everything the cruise line knows.

 

Nor will I be making a contribution to my cruise line of choice.

 

"It really can't be fraud when you know everything the cruise line knows."  Do we?

 

It's reassuring--somewhat--to know that the financing the cruise lines have arranged will keep them afloat for some period of time.  However, if the zeroes keep appearing on their booked income on their balance sheets and they continue to keep receiving deposits on future cruises, at what point in time do the dreadful words "Ponzi scheme" need to be considered by the future cruising public?  

 

 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

We're still scared to eat out or stay in a hotel. Part of the reason is the media and Dr. Fraudi have scared us to death.

You are not alone.   But we have a different take on the situation.  DW and I are determined to live our lives.  With COVID-19 that means being smart, using lots of common sense, and trying to be safe.  We do not take wild chances but being out and about does mean take reasonable risks.  We have no concern about hotels/motels and as far as we can determine there has not been any cases traced to hotel cleanliness.  Dining at any restaurant does mean assuming some risk but we only dine at restaurants that appear to have taken adequate precautions.   DW and I would actually like to dine out more because it is how we can show our support for the hard working folks in the restaurant industry.  

 

Everyone has their own level of risk tolerance.  For some folks that means literally being scared to death (folks have died because they failed to seek medical attention for problems other then COVID-19).  Many folks have made the choice (and it is a choice) to stay at home unless it is absolutely necessary to go out.  Others (like us) have decided that life does go on and we want to live...not hide.  Here in MB we have seen mostly careful folks who keep social distance and wear masks.  We have also seen others who continue to flaunt the advice and local ordinances.  We do our best to avoid those folks.

 

Our Condo building is 23 stories with 3 elevators.  The basic rule is that everyone wears masks when in public areas and elevators are supposed to be limited to one person or a family.  Everyone has been very polite with the elevators (a nice surprise) with some sharing of elevators after folks politely ask.  We have shared a few elevator rides, but will only do it with 1 or 2 others who are wearing masks.   Restaurants generally require folks to wear masks unless they are sitting at their table.  On the long drive home we will stop at a favorite French restaurant in Washington DC where they have recently implemented a mask rule which requires folks to even wear masks at their dining table unless they are eating or drinking.   Sounds like a good rule to me.

 

Speaking of beaches, most of us have seen the TV reports that showed hundreds/thousands of folks packed together on beaches.  Here in Myrtle Beach (and previously in Kiawah) we have seen nothing like those news reports.  In 2 weeks on 2 different beaches I cannot recall a single time when we were within 6 feet (or even 10 feet) of anyone.  I assume the media picks a few beaches around the country where they do ignore the rules.  But we suspect that most  beaches are quite fine.

 

Regarding Tony Fauci (I actually met him many years ago when I ran an AIDS/HIV program you might have noticed the pictures of him watching a ball game last night.....sans mask :).  Some of the media immediately jumped on the story and implied that he was being stupid.  But the reality is that he was simply using common sense and enjoying himself with little risk.  I guarantee you that Dr. Fauci is a big proponent of common sense mixed with science. I think the press in our country has become so corrupt, inept, and agenda driven as to make the old National Enquirer look good.  I stopped reading newspapers years ago when I could no longer decide whether to laugh, scream, cry, or just get angry.

 

Hank 

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

We live in Sebring which is south central in the state about an hour south of Disney. We live on a golf course and I'm playing my usual 4 rounds a week. We use social distancing on the tees and greens and ride in our own carts. What I don't do is have a beer after the round with the guys in the Clubhouse. So far I don't know anyone who has had the virus, right now we have had about 400,000 cases out of a population of 21,000,000, that's a percentage rate of 0.0190476. I think what a lot of people forget is that while we have had 400,000 cases in Florida, that number is since March, that does not mean we have 400,000 active cases,  probably more like 150,000-200,000 as thousands have beat the virus along with the 4500 unfortunate deaths. I do a Publix or Walmart trip once a week, I asked one of the checkout ladies who we know how many employees have had the virus, the answer was none.

Isn't Sebring the town where someone had a Holland America tender boat in the backyard..

[MISTER 67]

9 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Isn't Sebring the town where someone had a Holland America tender boat in the backyard..

Yep, actually is was in the back area of a small boat building business.

Edited July 24, 2020 by MISTER 67

[bouhunter]

10 hours ago, Doubt It said:

 

 

Since no one knows what the cruise product will be in the future - why are people putting cash down to purchase an unknown product?

 

It is illogical as Spock would say from the flight deck of the USS Enterprise. Spock would be crooking a brow and shaking his head as these individuals.

 

 

 

 

Yet everyday people on Cruise Critic discuss maybe making an upcoming final payment.......

 

Our next final payment is due a year from now.  Who knows if we'll even make that.

[bouhunter]

3 hours ago, jimmy2x said:

I MAY book a cruise for February of next year. But actually going on the cruise remains contingent on a vaccine prior to final payment. Have no desire for a cruise with social distancing and masks. 

 

Vaccine or no vaccine, a cruise in February 2021 ( if they sail) WILL include social distancing and masks, restrictions/limitations/elimination of activities, facilities, dining......etc etc etc.  Sounds like fun....not.

[Doubt It]

bouhunter, people on CC are likely not a real representative sample of the cruising public, we are, or have been, rather fanatical for cruising. Putting cash down for an uncertain product, at every level of analysis, seems illogical.

 

I will not cruise with masks, social distancing, port restrictions or uncertainty, tests at the dock etc. Not happening.

 

People I know who used to cruise a lot, many have purchased RV's and are off in the province, and elsewhere in Canada, travelling and having a great time. From discussions, many of them used their travel budget to outright purchase the RV, that may also have implications for cruising.  We are talking RV's at $250,000 and up, some of them are outright stunning.

 

Most are retired and they intend to RV and park in the USA when the border opens.

 

The RV's are selling like hotcakes, the dealer down the road just put up a sign saying they are selling out. Never seen that ever.

 

This takes cash flow away from cruising and that is serious.