Proposal to Federal Maritime Commission

[govanguy]

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/us-weighs-changes-regulations-cruise-line-nonperformance-and-refunds

 

Someone might wish to shorten the link?  [Done - HJB]

Edited July 28, 2020 by Host Jazzbeau

[Mackdogmolly]

A standardized refund process would be great.

[uktog]

3 hours ago, norn iron said:

 

It did for me earlier - basically all they are proposing for the USA is what the ABTA/ATOL requirements are re refunds in the UK.  Its one thing having the "regulations" the other is who enforces them when it is an industry scheme

[Host Jazzbeau]

56 minutes ago, uktog said:

It did for me earlier - basically all they are proposing for the USA is what the ABTA/ATOL requirements are re refunds in the UK.  Its one thing having the "regulations" the other is who enforces them when it is an industry scheme

 

If the FMC adopts these regulations, it won't be an industry scheme in the US – it will be a government regulation legally binding on all cruise operators for their US customers.

[uktog]

3 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

If the FMC adopts these regulations, it won't be an industry scheme in the US – it will be a government regulation legally binding on all cruise operators for their US customers.

The UK position is that whilst ABTA is an agency body it is subject to the legislation of the Competition and Markets Authority (Govt) and ATOL is managed by the Civil Aviation Authority (Govt).  Both however have listened to the pressure from the industry so although there are clearly defined rules (refunds must be paid in 14 days for example) on this occasion, they have needed to recognise that to pay out in the timelines would have pushed the industry to failure.  So I believe we were in the same position as the planned US scheme - yes legally binding but in these unprecedented times no one wants to push the enforcement button.

[MakingUpForLostTime]

This is ridiculous. Really?

How about common sense. Have we all not learned?

 

Over the past few decades we have accepted companies 1) using customer deposits paid well in advance to fund daily operations and 2) being crammed into as small as a space as possible forced to pay to upgrade to get breathing room.

 

Firstly we as customers should demand that shareholders and debt holders fund cruise lines, not customers. Our money should be held in trust and systems should automatically send the money back if a refund is to be issued. Paid the day the cruise was set to start, not 100-180 days after.

 

Secondly we as customers should demand space. Covid-19 is the great equalizer that forces businesses to realign in order to survive. Distance between one and another should not be an upgrade or forced through a pandemic.

 

The cruise industry is suffering the worst fate because we have accepted these two practices and now they rush to readjust.

 

 

[uktog]

Smaller cruise lines operating here do use a trust situation as they are too small to be bonded by ABTA/ATOL. I had a cruise booked through one for the end of August. 
1. They were not asking for final payment until 14-21 days before sailing. 
2. My cruise was unfortunately cancelled 28 days before sailing and I had my deposit back minus the indemnity fee £5! within 8 days. 
So trust funds do indeed help in certain situations. 
 

PS still no sign of my port fees for cancellations in May and no response to email to Azamara trying amongst other things to ascertain exactly who paid who when in relation to these fees. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

5 hours ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

This is ridiculous. Really?

How about common sense. Have we all not learned?

 

Over the past few decades we have accepted companies 1) using customer deposits paid well in advance to fund daily operations and 2) being crammed into as small as a space as possible forced to pay to upgrade to get breathing room.

 

Firstly we as customers should demand that shareholders and debt holders fund cruise lines, not customers. Our money should be held in trust and systems should automatically send the money back if a refund is to be issued. Paid the day the cruise was set to start, not 100-180 days after.

 

Secondly we as customers should demand space. Covid-19 is the great equalizer that forces businesses to realign in order to survive. Distance between one and another should not be an upgrade or forced through a pandemic.

 

The cruise industry is suffering the worst fate because we have accepted these two practices and now they rush to readjust.

 

We as customers don't have that kind of power.  Remember when the US airlines started shrinking space – American tried to take the high road and kept their larger room in coach, and saw their bookings drop dramatically.  But if you really refuse to sail without these demands being met, here's an idea for you:

 

 

[MakingUpForLostTime]

1 minute ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

We as customers don't have that kind of power.  Remember when the US airlines started shrinking space – American tried to take the high road and kept their larger room in coach, and saw their bookings drop dramatically.  But if you really refuse to sail without these demands being met, here's an idea for you:

 

 

It’s your “way of thinking” accepting the fact that we don’t have that power has allowed the cruise lines to operate in such a way that puts the entire industry in significant jeopardy today. We accept their terms and conditions because we allow them to demand them from us. I have never questioned how a cruise line has used my deposit for 30 cruises over 42 years. I question it now. If there is a chance to change, it is now. Suggesting I join another group is not in the spirit of health discussion. Instead of open and frank discussion, again I am attacked for my thoughts. How about engaging without malice? 
 

so my question is this: Why not? How can anyone think that 180 days for a refund serves the customer? I am alone here? Come on!

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, MakingUpForLostTime said:

It’s your “way of thinking” accepting the fact that we don’t have that power has allowed the cruise lines to operate in such a way that puts the entire industry in significant jeopardy today. We accept their terms and conditions because we allow them to demand them from us. I have never questioned how a cruise line has used my deposit for 30 cruises over 42 years. I question it now. If there is a chance to change, it is now. Suggesting I join another group is not in the spirit of health discussion. Instead of open and frank discussion, again I am attacked for my thoughts. How about engaging without malice? 
 

so my question is this: Why not? How can anyone think that 180 days for a refund serves the customer? I am alone here? Come on!

 

Did you read my post?  I wasn't suggesting that you join another thread on Cruise Critic, I was suggesting you take the suggestion in that thread and start your own cruise line.  Then you can show the rest of the industry how much sense your ideas make and they will surely copy your successful strategy.

[MakingUpForLostTime]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Did you read my post?  I wasn't suggesting that you join another thread on Cruise Critic, I was suggesting you take the suggestion in that thread and start your own cruise line.  Then you can show the rest of the industry how much sense your ideas make and they will surely copy your successful strategy.

Yes I read your post. So my ideas of offering people more space and securing deposit money in trust with a mechanism for quicker repayment is something to poke fun at? The cruise industry has a very slim chance of surviving this event and instead of coming up with useful discussion you belittle me? Very Sad!