Organised shore excursions only

[alcpa1]

I am holding out hope that our May 2021 Alaska cruise will sail. Unlike some cruise destinations this is one itinerary that would be next to impossible to do if Juneau were on the itinerary. A jaunt across the South Seas, while possible via air, would be incredibly expensive and daunting to plan. 

Cruising answers many logistical questions for both the novice and the well traveled. I, for one, will never board a bus almost daily for a land tour. That's not my idea of a vacation and never was. I laughingly give pause when I think about my DH driving around Italy or England again. He's not that great here either. But don't tell him I said that!

We cruise for a variety of reasons and often use the embarkation and disembarkation ports as a means to greater travel but at a pace that accommodates our physical abilities and interests. 

When they pull up the anchor on any of our 2021 - 2022 booked cruises my DH and I will hug and do a very happy dance.

[comcox]

10 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Same for me for a Sept cruise AMS to VCE....       Rather I will fly to europe, rent a car and visit friends  and places in the alps and france...   Final payment is in April.   If no definite word forget it forever..... I am with ORV.    I have seen enough in my life... cruising was an ideal way for many areas.   However, today  ships run like seagoing prisons, with everybody in fear is not the cruise experience  I enjoy....    Oh well  time is running out.

I'm leaning towards your feelings also.  I'd be willing to wear a mask, reserve a dinner time, etc., but the mandatory ship's tours is where I will have to draw the line I'm afraid.  I do occasionally take a ship's tour, but then often follow it up with free time in port even when I do take the tour.  I've been cruising for just over 18 years (40 cruise total so far), so I will miss it very much.  We are currently booked on an May cruise to France and Spain, but now we are talking about just flying over and renting a car to DYI the France part at least.  Of course, even that is in question as to whether the EU countries will even open up to Americans by then.

[Paulchili]

7 hours ago, comcox said:

Of course, even that is in question as to whether the EU countries will even open up to Americans by then.

There is that plus they are again having problems of their own as well.

[pinotlover]

By next summer there will be a vaccine. Take it, or stay at home.

 

I had my six month check up with my cardiologist last week. His message was simple: When the vaccine becomes available either (1) Take it, or (2) Find a new cardiologist. I’m not forced to take it, and he’s not forced to have me as a patient. I won’t see my Urologist until March, but I hear he’s telling his patients the same thing.

 

IMO, by next summer a vaccine will be out and we’ll have two divergent worlds. One for those that get the vaccine, and one for those that don’t.

 

Our school officials are already saying that after the vaccine is available they’re going back to regular classes and schedules. Anti-vaxers can stay at home and do remote learning or take their chances in the classroom.

 

Brave New World. Read it decades ago.

[Shawnino]

4 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

[...]

I had my six month check up with my cardiologist last week. His message was simple: When the vaccine becomes available either (1) Take it, or (2) Find a new cardiologist. [...]

 

What a joke of a doctor.

Can I at least assume he'll take the vaccine himself?

Does he fire all his patients if he recommends Treatment A and they opt to pass or for Treatment B? 

 

(Let the record reflect that once we have a satisfactorily safe vaccine, I do selfishly want all of you to get it, because I can't. Let the record further reflect I do mathematical review for vaccine studies, so I'm as pro-vaccine as they come.)

[pinotlover]

Shawnino;

 

As a 1st Responder, since he does plenty of emergency surgery, he said he’d be first in line to get the vaccine.

 

One of my close friends, and wine group buddies, is the Medical Director at our Regional hospital. He says once the vaccine is available , getting the vaccine will be a condition of employment at the hospital. He foresees the same thing for others, such as those working in nursing homes and assisted living facilities. It’s called mitigation of risk and economic exposure.

[TravelguruDanville]

Hi Paul,

I know this isn’t the correct board to ask this but I found your messages while I was on the general board for European ports. We are on Marina 28 day day Amsterdam to Venice Sept 20-Oct 16, 2021. While reading various messages, I saw you coordinating several tours in Spain with the same tour company I am exploring. I’ve only been reading the roll call board that is pretty sparsely populated. 

 

I’m assuming we are on the same Marina cruise? Your various posts have not included dates that I can see. Do you still have openings on any of the tours you have been organizing?
very interested in learning more. Many thanks! Just my husband and myself from the SF Bay Area. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by TravelguruDanville
Left out dates

[1985rz1]

27 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Brave New World. Read it decades ago.

 

 If you want to see how this will all turn out, read The Great Influenza by John M. Barry.  The parallels are amazing.

[Paulchili]

1 minute ago, TravelguruDanville said:

Hi Paul,

I know this isn’t the correct board to ask this but I found your messages while I was on the general board for European ports. We are on Marina 28 day day Amsterdam to Venice. While reading various messages, I saw you coordinating several tours in Spain with the same tour company I am exploring. I’ve only been reading the roll call board that is pretty sparsely populated. 

 

I’m assuming we are on the same Marina cruise? Your various posts have not included dates that I can see. Do you still have openings on any of the tours you have been organizing?
very interested in learning more. Many thanks! Just my husband and myself from the SF Bay Area. 

I am assuming you mean me - Paulchili. Or do you mean PaulMCO?

We were booked on Marina this past May that had several stops in Spain and I had organized tours with Spain Day Tours.

Obviously that cruise was cancelled and I have nothing booked at the moment - waiting to see what the future holds.

I am happy to answer any specific questions about the tour company.

[TravelguruDanville]

After hearing and reading about Oceania’s presumed policy that only ship excursions will be allowed for Amsterdam to Ven, yesterday I called Oceania and my TA and both said that is not true...third party excursions are fine.  Although we have time before final payment is due, we all need to hear directly from the top if this information is accurate or not!

 

BTW, our April cruise on Seabourn was cancelled this week by the company. 

 

I feel like I’m spinning my wheels starting to organize tours now, [and I spent so many hours on the three cruises that were cancelled in 2020], I want to know whether we will be cancelling or not!

[TravelguruDanville]

8 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

I am assuming you mean me - Paulchili. Or do you mean PaulMCO?

We were booked on Marina this past May that had several stops in Spain and I had organized tours with Spain Day Tours.

Obviously that cruise was cancelled and I have nothing booked at the moment - waiting to see what the future holds.

I am happy to answer any specific questions about the tour company.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the quick response! Shucks...I thought I could just join your tours! As mentioned, we are booked for 9/2021. Looked on TA, and Spain day tours received great reviews. Unfortunately they don’t have tours identified for Gijon or Villagarcia de Arosa  If you have any info on those or other recommended tour companies in Portugal or Italy, that would be greatly appreciated and save me hours of research!Many thanks!

Gail

[pinotlover]

5 minutes ago, TravelguruDanville said:

After hearing and reading about Oceania’s presumed policy that only ship excursions will be allowed for Amsterdam to Ven, yesterday I called Oceania and my TA and both said that is not true...third party excursions are fine.  Although we have time before final payment is due, we all need to hear directly from the top if this information is accurate or not!

 

BTW, our April cruise on Seabourn was cancelled this week by the company. 

 

I feel like I’m spinning my wheels starting to organize tours now, [and I spent so many hours on the three cruises that were cancelled in 2020], I want to know whether we will be cancelling or not!

Amazing! Not even a month ago my TA was told by Oceania that only ship tours would be allowed! That was for our now cancelled November cruise.

 

We are still booked on a late January Marina cruise. I have multiple private tours booked, most of which are full with Roll Call participants.

 

I hope that Oceania will officially clarify this matter soon. Of course, the answer mightn’t be one size fits all. Some locales might allow private tours, while others don’t! Cruise by cruise, or port by port response.

[Shawnino]

34 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Shawnino;

 

As a 1st Responder, since he does plenty of emergency surgery, he said he’d be first in line to get the vaccine.

 

One of my close friends, and wine group buddies, is the Medical Director at our Regional hospital. He says once the vaccine is available , getting the vaccine will be a condition of employment at the hospital. He foresees the same thing for others, such as those working in nursing homes and assisted living facilities. It’s called mitigation of risk and economic exposure.

 

It will be really interesting to see if this stands up to state and federal labour laws.

I think it'd be great if everyone who can get the vaccine gets it.

Making it a condition of employment doesn't feel like a slam dunk.

[Paulchili]

5 minutes ago, TravelguruDanville said:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the quick response! Shucks...I thought I could just join your tours! As mentioned, we are booked for 9/2021. Looked on TA, and Spain day tours received great reviews. Unfortunately they don’t have tours identified for Gijon or Villagarcia de Arosa  If you have any info on those or other recommended tour companies in Portugal or Italy, that would be greatly appreciated and save me hours of research!Many thanks!

Gail

Gail,

We would have been happy to have you join us if we were on the same cruise.

Spain Day tours may not list those 2 towns but you can always ask them about it.

For Portugal we used Jorge Bras in the past when he was a single guide and were very happy. He now joined a group and we had tours in Portugal booked with him on the May cruise:

Premiere Tours - https://premiere.tours/

You can ask for Jorge as per my recommendation.

Good luck.

[Hawaiidan]

17 hours ago, Mura said:

Have to agree with you, Dan.  Until and unless we can get back to cruising the way we knew it ... it won't happen for us. Given that DH doesn't want to travel any more, cruising would have been easy for me as a single ... not so easy on a land trip.  But I'm willing to give it a go ... when life is "normal" again.  I do have some friends who would be willing to join me on a land trip.

 

Mura

 

Life is all about change and adapting to it.......Some do  some do not    There are options   your choice remains.

16 hours ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

 

What about the Oceania Suite for your disabled wife and the tours we believe you were arranging for fellow passengers in various countries??  If the ships are "run like seagoing prisons with everybody in fear" why promote the cruise and lead them on?  Sounds like you are betting things will turn around though and we hope you are right.

I always have a plan B and even C.    I hope and plan for the best, I also plan for the worst.    Years of past  combat and emergency situations tempers you.... to the realities of life.   There are many paths  to take as Frost mentioned only 2....  I prepare for 3.

[Hawaiidan]

41 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

It will be really interesting to see if this stands up to state and federal labour laws.

I think it'd be great if everyone who can get the vaccine gets it.

Making it a condition of employment doesn't feel like a slam dunk.

Really? 

 An employer is not "required" to  hire anyone....  It is his choice alone  He alone sets the standards.   Likewise he is also free to terminate anyone at any time  as long as it is not for race, sex or religion according to labor law in this country..   

 Not taking a vaccine would be  sufficient reason not to hire or fire anyone.....  Or a cruise, store, business etc from refusing service.......  Non Vaccine people would lead a very lonely life...   

While everyone is free to choose......so are the others about those choices. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Hawaiidan

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, TravelguruDanville said:

After hearing and reading about Oceania’s presumed policy that only ship excursions will be allowed for Amsterdam to Ven, yesterday I called Oceania and my TA and both said that is not true...third party excursions are fine.  Although we have time before final payment is due, we all need to hear directly from the top if this information is accurate or not!

 

BTW, our April cruise on Seabourn was cancelled this week by the company. 

 

I feel like I’m spinning my wheels starting to organize tours now, [and I spent so many hours on the three cruises that were cancelled in 2020], I want to know whether we will be cancelling or not!

"The top" doesn't know right now. FDR himself doesn't know if your cruise is going to take place, what its exact itinerary will be if it does sail, how many passengers will be allowed on the sailing, what shore excursions will be operating, whether you can go ashore independently, etc. 

 

Because all that and more is unknown right now what they're really saying is "We can't tell you right now, so until we know just assume everything will operate normally."

[Shawnino]

3 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

Really? 

 An employer is not "required" to  hire anyone....  It is his choice alone  He alone sets the standards.   Likewise he is also free to terminate anyone at any time  as long as it is not for race, sex or religion according to labor law in this country..   

 Not taking a vaccine would be  sufficient reason not to hire or fire anyone.....  Or a cruise, store, business etc from refusing service.......  Non Vaccine people would lead a very lonely life...   

While everyone is free to choose......so are the others about those choices. 

 

Yes, really.

Educate yourself, starting with HIPAA.

[drkitkat123]

5 hours ago, Shawnino said:

(Let the record reflect that once we have a satisfactorily safe vaccine, I do selfishly want all of you to get it, because I can't. 

as an MD, this is an interesting comment. May I respectively ask how can you say this if there is no idea about which vaccines will be successful? 

[drkitkat123]

6 hours ago, Shawnino said:

Does he fire all his patients if he recommends Treatment A and they opt to pass or for Treatment B? 

 

 

it's up to the doctor surely - what is your point?

[kitty9]

I have the feeling the ADA might be called into action if passengers are discriminated against with regards to cruising and COVID vaccines. If one can prove that they cannot get the vaccine, whether due to health issues or religious reasons, cruise lines cannot discriminate against those persons. There are certain exclusions for travelers who cannot take, for example, Yellow Fever shots, but they are still allowed to travel. 

[drkitkat123]

5 minutes ago, kitty9 said:

I have the feeling the ADA might be called into action if passengers are discriminated against with regards to cruising and COVID vaccines. If one can prove that they cannot get the vaccine, whether due to health issues or religious reasons, cruise lines cannot discriminate against those persons. There are certain exclusions for travelers who cannot take, for example, Yellow Fever shots, but they are still allowed to travel. 

so what happens if some of those that refuse the vaccine get Covid on board and the ship is not allowed into port?

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, kitty9 said:

There are certain exclusions for travelers who cannot take, for example, Yellow Fever shots, but they are still allowed to travel. 

This is not an apples to apples comparison.

Those that cannot take the Yellow Fever vaccines are at risk only to themselves if they get sick - they are no threat to others.

That is certainly not the case for COVID. The implications are obvious.

[Shawnino]

12 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

it's up to the doctor surely - what is your point?

 

Yes it's up to the doctor, but my point is he's a poor doctor if he fires every patient who doesn't do exactly what he says. Medicine is a science, but hardly an exact one.

[Shawnino]

12 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

as an MD, this is an interesting comment. May I respectively ask how can you say this if there is no idea about which vaccines will be successful? 

 

The short answer I thought it went without saying that we would also want vaccines to have some measure of success. otherwise there's no point.

 

The long answer is that I come at this from a vaccine safety perspective. I leave efficacy to others. But from what I'm reading, two themes seem to be emerging:

--The efficacy rates of current candidates look more like flu shot rates (40-60%) than smallpox (95%) or shingles (90%). Let there be no doubt: this virus is not "the flu". But that's the level where our tech is.

--There is unproven thinking that different vaccines will have different efficacies in different populations. This shot might be better for oldsters; that one might be better for people with certain pre-exising conditions, etc. There's a pre-print out that suggests a certain vaccine will run better in people with Type-O blood than in those with other blood types. I have yet to see proof, but people I trust are cautiously moved by the evidence.

 

As I say, I do some work on data on the safety side, moreso in paediatric vaccines than in anything else. I don't know enough to talk efficacy. But I had hoped it'd be clear that just as I don't want vaccines that don't meet a good safety threshold out there, I don't want ineffective vaccines (or therapeutics) out there either.