Compensation if your bumped? FCC now a cash refund?

[mscdivina2016]

I just watched Del Rio talk about your cruise may be replaced by another ship and limited capacity is possible.  

 

So it makes me wonder, how does that affect the FCC we took?  Lets say you were on one of the mega ships and they replaced it with a mid size ship like Jewel class. You had a Haven and now due to a smaller ship you no longer have a haven booking due to smaller number of Haven rooms on a Jewel class.

 

What if in there are more bookings than cabins available?

 

I know many of us had taken FCC, re-booked only to have sailing cancelled.

What happens if the ship sails and you get bumped? Whether bumped from your original class of cabin (Haven) or not able to sail due to capacity issues.

 

Would you now be able to get a cash refund?  If capacity is an issue, they need to stop taking bookings. I don't like the thought of those with FCC being bumped in favor of those paying cash or those who are paying higher rates.  I know I would look to see what is better for my bottom line.

 

It is one thing if the sailing itself is cancelled but if it sails that could open a whole new can of worms.  I know myself, I had several extra  one time use 25% off perks and had used 2 so far and when they cancelled future bookings I got the FCC back but not the 25% coupon. I have 2 left and I would hate to use one and get bumped.

 

I see the prices have sky rocketed but think I would be a prime candidate to get bumped because I had several b2b2b2b booked before covid blew up so I am in on the real cheap.

 

Steve

[cruisekitty22]

I was wondering the same thing!  Hoping someone knows what will happen.  We booked the Encore for December 5-12, 2021 and I hope they replace it with the Escape if needed or we are cancelling and hoping to get all our money back even though it was paid with FCC.  We have a travel agent. I am hoping it turns out ok.  But I dont know!! 

[Trimone]

I’ve been saying this for weeks, and been criticised by everyone and their dog, what you paid for isn’t materialising, therefore it doesn’t matter if you took FCC you should now have the option for full refund.

Some people paid in 2018 haven’t had a cruise yet!

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Lets say you were on one of the mega ships and they replaced it with a mid size ship like Jewel class.

 

b) Substitute Vessel: If the vessel does not sail on or about the advertised or scheduled date for any reason, including fault of the Carrier, the Guest agrees that the Carrier shall be entitled to substitute any other vessel or means of transportation, regardless of whether owned or operated by the Carrier, and to re-berth Guests thereon or, at the Carrier's option, to refund the fare paid or a pro rata portion thereof, without further liability for damages or losses of any kind whatsoever.

 

Getting bumped is a possibility but if bumped, NCL would likely return the payment as it was received (FCC for FCC, cash for cash, etc.).

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

I just watched Del Rio talk about your cruise may be replaced by another ship and limited capacity is possible.  

 

So it makes me wonder, how does that affect the FCC we took?  Lets say you were on one of the mega ships and they replaced it with a mid size ship like Jewel class. You had a Haven and now due to a smaller ship you no longer have a haven booking due to smaller number of Haven rooms on a Jewel class.

 

What if in there are more bookings than cabins available?

 

I know many of us had taken FCC, re-booked only to have sailing cancelled.

What happens if the ship sails and you get bumped? Whether bumped from your original class of cabin (Haven) or not able to sail due to capacity issues.

 

Would you now be able to get a cash refund?  If capacity is an issue, they need to stop taking bookings. I don't like the thought of those with FCC being bumped in favor of those paying cash or those who are paying higher rates.  I know I would look to see what is better for my bottom line.

 

It is one thing if the sailing itself is cancelled but if it sails that could open a whole new can of worms.  I know myself, I had several extra  one time use 25% off perks and had used 2 so far and when they cancelled future bookings I got the FCC back but not the 25% coupon. I have 2 left and I would hate to use one and get bumped.

 

I see the prices have sky rocketed but think I would be a prime candidate to get bumped because I had several b2b2b2b booked before covid blew up so I am in on the real cheap.

 

Steve

All of the recent cancellations have been returned to original form of payment. If you paid with FCC, you get a FCC refund. If you paid with Cruise Next, you get CN certificates reinstated. If you paid by credit card, you get a refund to your credit card. 
 

In the past (pre-COVID), significant changes have been accompanied with a opportunity to opt out and take a refund to original form of payment. Yes, the contract says that NCL does not have to offer you that option. But they usually do. 

[DCGuy64]

3 hours ago, Trimone said:

I’ve been saying this for weeks, and been criticised by everyone and their dog, what you paid for isn’t materialising, therefore it doesn’t matter if you took FCC you should now have the option for full refund.

Some people paid in 2018 haven’t had a cruise yet!

"Should" and "will" are two different things. Maybe you think they "should" receive a full refund regardless of the circumstances, but the law doesn't say they "will." In fact, it says the opposite, namely that if you pay in FCC, you get FCC. Personally, I don't blame the cruise lines one bit. They are stuck with almost no ships sailing right now and it isn't really their decision not to cruise. I'd have less sympathy if it were truly a voluntary pause in operations. Yes, I know each cancellation carries that moniker, but considering that Royal Caribbean announced a loss of some $5 billion, I highly doubt they're voluntarily not sailing. Someone elsewhere on here made the point of saying that travel agencies don't get paid if a trip doesn't happen, so every time one of us cancels a cruise, that's money a small business doesn't get. Same if the cruise line cancels. It's a tough time for the industry. Maybe it's just "play" money to us, after all the average cruise passenger is just spending disposable income on a vacation, but this is the cruise industry's livelihood.

[dumbth]

29 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Maybe it's just "play" money to us, after all the average cruise passenger is just spending disposable income on a vacation, but this is the cruise industry's livelihood.

 

I agree with NCL being fair in non cash pay backs, and anyway my original payment cc number had to change due to fraudulent charges. But in no way shape or form should passenger money be considered "play". Every nickel of mine represents pain, austerity, grinding stress, striving for impossible goals, etc. I hope you aren't mistaking disposable as meaning discardable, but rather in the case of income it means self directed even for necessities.

Edited March 1, 2021 by dumbth

[Trimone]

Put it this way, if my September cruise is cancelled from Barcelona, I won’t accept FCC under any circumstances, only a refund, therefore I will have a chance to book a cruise out of Southampton.

Remember in administration FCC are valueless promises 

[dumbth]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

the average cruise passenger is just spending disposable income.

 

You must mean "discretionary" income (for non necessities), not disposable. The forum timer prevented me from editing this into the above.

Edited March 1, 2021 by dumbth

[colordancer]

36 minutes ago, dumbth said:

 

I agree with NCL being fair in non cash pay backs, and anyway my original payment cc number had to change due to fraudulent charges. But in no way shape or form should passenger money be considered "play". Every nickel of mine represents pain, austerity, grinding stress, striving for impossible goals, etc. I hope you aren't mistaking disposable as meaning discardable, but rather in the case of income it means self directed even for necessities.

Don't worry; the refund will still come to you provided  you didn't close the account...even with a new card number.   Your old number is still affiliated on the CC co' s end with you.  I've had this happen before, and the refund still came through 🙂  It will show up separately on your statement which is what called my attention to it in the first place (I didn't say it was a big refund heheheh)

[DCGuy64]

21 minutes ago, dumbth said:

 

You must mean "discretionary" income (for non necessities), not disposable. The forum timer prevented me from editing this into the above.

Correct, I use the terms discretionary and disposable to mean essentially the same thing. Thank you for your comment.

[mscdivina2016]

4 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

b) Substitute Vessel: If the vessel does not sail on or about the advertised or scheduled date for any reason, including fault of the Carrier, the Guest agrees that the Carrier shall be entitled to substitute any other vessel or means of transportation, regardless of whether owned or operated by the Carrier, and to re-berth Guests thereon or, at the Carrier's option, to refund the fare paid or a pro rata portion thereof, without further liability for damages or losses of any kind whatsoever.

 

Getting bumped is a possibility but if bumped, NCL would likely return the payment as it was received (FCC for FCC, cash for cash, etc.).

 

 I agree with you on substituting a vessel as you posted from the T&C, but getting bumped like the airlines do because they overbook is not my problem, its theirs.  Keep in mind that airlines bumping requires them to offer something and to keep increasing it till someone volunteers (USA).  The cruise lines are intentionally accepting more bookings.

I paid in 2018 for a cruise in March 2020. Got cancelled took FCC, I have rebooked many times, and they have cancelled 9 so far on me.  I understand they are cancelling the whole sailing. But if I have a Haven booking and the ship sails and I get bumped that would not be acceptable to me, because they overbooked and I again get back FCC which I have been trying to use, and I end up losing my 1 time 25% coupon over.

 

Everyone keeps going back to the term "Original payment" well the original payment was cash. I did agree to accept FCC and book a cruise and sail by the end of 2021. Just because they keep extending it does not obligate me to accept it. That is not the original agreement especially since I kept to the terms and booked a cruise. Their ability to sail is their problem as non USA flagged vessels.

 MSC will refund you in cash starting on 1/1/2022 if you are not able or don't want to use FCC by 12/31/2021

Steve

[jebhoward3]

8 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

 

It is one thing if the sailing itself is cancelled but if it sails that could open a whole new can of worms.  I know myself, I had several extra  one time use 25% off perks and had used 2 so far and when they cancelled future bookings I got the FCC back but not the 25% coupon. I have 2 left and I would hate to use one and get bumped.

Did you click on View All + at lower left bottom of where the account shows your coupons and credits.  I thought I was missing one and then noticed that and clicked on it and all was good.

8 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

 

 

8 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

 

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Everyone keeps going back to the term "Original payment" well the original payment was cash. I did agree to accept FCC and book a cruise and sail by the end of 2021.

 

Once you accepted the FCC, the cash was gone...never to be seen again. 

 

1 hour ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Just because they keep extending it does not obligate me to accept it.

 

You already accepted it when you took the FCC...

 

The original FCC amount will be returned to the guests' profile. If an affected booking has a previously applied FCC (as a result of a previous suspended sailing), the enhanced value future cruise credit will not be applicable. Bookings under this circumstance are not eligible for a cash refund and will receive the original value of the FCC back to the guests' profile.

 

Note FCCs have no cash value and cannot be redeemed for cash. If a guest opts to retain the FCC provided, the guest hereby agrees to all of NCL's terms and conditions associated with the FCC, which can also be found on www.ncl.com/cruise-faq. Please be advised that at no time will an FCC be redeemable for cash, including but not limited to situations of possible future cruise suspensions, displacements, cancellations or if the FCC exceeds the time in which it must be used.

 

2 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

 MSC will refund you in cash starting on 1/1/2022 if you are not able or don't want to use FCC by 12/31/2021

 

MSC has better terms than NCL. One line has no influence on the other. 

[jbcallender]

Our second attempt at a Tahiti itinerary was cancelled, but since that was paid for with FCC from the first cancellation, no refund.  I argued, wrote letters and was still refused.  I rebooked same itinerary for 2022, but it is now on Spirit, not Jewel and two fewer days.   I told them OK fine you'll get my money this time, but you'll never get it again. 

[BoozinCroozin]

If "bumped", I am sure they are required to refund based on the form of payment used for the cruise. If booked with FCC, you would get FCC not cash. If changing the ship from lets say Encore to Jewel, there may be some compensation as an OBC or optional refund to the form of payment used to book the cruise. As for Haven down to say a standard balcony, it would be a refund to original payment method or accepting the OBC they are offering. The other issue is NCL will use the current pricing of the cruise instead of when you booked. When all of this started, I start taking screen captures of cabin prices so if this issue arises, I have documented price differences so they can lowball the OBC if they force a cabin switch.

[BoozinCroozin]

15 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Everyone keeps going back to the term "Original payment" well the original payment was cash. I did agree to accept FCC and book a cruise and sail by the end of 2021. Just because they keep extending it does not obligate me to accept it. That is not the original agreement especially since I kept to the terms and booked a cruise. Their ability to sail is their problem as non USA flagged vessels.

 MSC will refund you in cash starting on 1/1/2022 if you are not able or don't want to use FCC by 12/31/2021

Steve

I beg to differ. Your form of payment on the cruise booked in 2018 was cash/CC. That was the original form for Cruise #1. Cruise #1 was canceled and you signed a binding agreement to take FCC and waive any right to a refund of that money. Fast-forward to Cruise #2 - #9 (or whatever), each of these was booked with a FCC. FCC is the original form of payment for each of these cruises and that is how those cruise will be refunded. It's unfortunate for you and not reading all of the T's and C's. Those are legal, binding agreements. The worst case scenario for you would NCL filing bankruptcy and part of that is erasing all bookings with FCC. That is unlikely, but a possibility. The most likely outcome is that you get what you paid for with the FCC.

 

This is why I always tell people to take a refund. It puts the cash back in your hands. RCL did the 125% FCC, but raised the price of most cruise by that much right before canceling. It was very smart for them because a lot of people thought they were really getting something.

[mscdivina2016]

14 hours ago, jebhoward3 said:

Did you click on View All + at lower left bottom of where the account shows your coupons and credits.  I thought I was missing one and then noticed that and clicked on it and all was good.

 

 

I did that and I am definitely missing two, but I still have my additional 1 time use coupons as they call it.

I think the 1st 2 are gone because in theory I double dipped.  Right after covid hit I booked about a dozen and used the FCC coupons to not only get the original 25% off but an additional 25% off. That is why I am afraid if bumping happens, I could be a prime target. My current locked in rate is more than half what they are charging today.

 Right after I booked rates started climbing. They even let me use the additional coupon on a 2023 b2b2b2b and not the other I have for final payment time.

  For the record, I personally do not want a refund. I want my parents to be able to get one. They are both over 80 and in failing health. I at this time don't want to buy it from them as I still have $12,000 fcc not used.

 I did receive contact back from the AGs office yesterday as they are looking into my claim that an expiration date for FCC is illegal under FL law as its considered a credit. I was afraid it would be tossed but it has been sent for review by the consumer protection department.

 

STeve

 

 

[DCGuy64]

FWIW, we had a cruise on MSC booked for May 2020 and one on NCL booked for January 2021. Both cancelled. MSC gave us 125% FCC (which we opted for since we hated having 0 cruises in our future), which I then used for a July cruise which WE have decided to postpone until end of August. NCL gave us our money back (deposit only and 2 CN certificates), and we have now used one CN to book a Japan cruise for April 2022. My point? The itineraries are different, as well as the ships. And we're paying more than $1,000 more for a smaller cabin. That's life. We aren't demanding anything. The OP is in a bit of a different situation due to the vastly higher amount of money sunk in, but this point is the same: the cruise lines are effectively shut down through no fault of their own. They didn't just randomly decide on a whim to stop sailing. They are legally forbidden to sail due to government laws and regulations. The reason they are accepting future bookings is that there are no current bookings to be had. All they have is the future, and there's no guarantee of that, either. I've had gift certificates that went unused because the restaurant or store went out of business. That's just how life is. I think the OP needs to give NCL a break here. Even his airplane example is not analogous. Airlines don't oversell and then bump people because they don't know how many seats are on the plane or whether they'll fly. They do it because research shows that a certain percentage of people are no-shows, and the more seats are filled, the more money they make. Capitalism 101. I think he just has to acknowledge that once he agreed to FCC, he forfeited the right to a cash refund and also agreed to the other T&C's regarding itinerary and ship. I'd be interested to see how his legal fight goes. I hope it's worth more than the money he stands to lose from NCL, unless his attorney works on contingency basis.

 

[Capitan Obvious]

1 hour ago, mscdivina2016 said:

 

 

 

 I did receive contact back from the AGs office yesterday as they are looking into my claim that an expiration date for FCC is illegal under FL law as its considered a credit. I was afraid it would be tossed but it has been sent for review by the consumer protection department.

 

 

 

Based on that reasoning, aren't CruiseNext Rewards also illegal?

 

You pay the cruise line with cash, you get a certificate good for a set dollar amount for future use, and it has an expiration date outlined in the T&C. Not seeing a difference here.

[casofilia]

What will happen to Discounts?   We have a 75% discount on a 19 day Suite on a cruise in December 2022.   I imagine that saved us about $20,000!!!

1) Cash?

2) FCC?

3) Another 75% discount?

[mscdivina2016]

2 hours ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

Based on that reasoning, aren't CruiseNext Rewards also illegal?

 

You pay the cruise line with cash, you get a certificate good for a set dollar amount for future use, and it has an expiration date outlined in the T&C. Not seeing a difference here.

I guess it may be in the terminology and thats what I am asking for clarification of. Is a cruise considered a service or merchandise or neither?  The cruise line has been offering Future cruise "credit" and according to FL law.....Chapter 501 section 95.......

 

 

501.95 Gift certificates and credit memos.—

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) “Credit memo” means a certificate, card, stored value card, or similar instrument issued in exchange for returned merchandise when the certificate, card, or similar instrument is redeemable for merchandise, food, or services regardless of whether any cash may be paid to the owner of the certificate, card, or instrument as part of the redemption transaction.

(b) “Gift certificate” means a certificate, gift card, stored value card, or similar instrument purchased for monetary consideration when the certificate, card, or similar instrument is redeemable for merchandise, food, or services regardless of whether any cash may be paid to the owner of the certificate, card, or instrument as part of the redemption transaction, but this term shall not include tickets as specified in s. 717.1355 or manufacturer or retailer discounts and coupons.

(2)¹(a) A gift certificate purchased or credit memo issued in this state may not have an expiration date, expiration period, or any type of postsale charge or fee imposed on the gift certificate or credit memo, including, but not limited to, service charges, dormancy fees, account maintenance fees, or cash-out fees. However, a gift certificate may have an expiration date of not less than 3 years if it is provided as a charitable contribution, or not less than 1 year if it is provided as a benefit pursuant to an employee-incentive program, and the expiration date is prominently disclosed in writing to the consumer at the time it is provided. In addition, a gift certificate may have an expiration date if it is provided to the recipient, or to a purchaser for transfer to the recipient, as part of a loyalty or promotional program when the recipient does not pay a separate identifiable charge for the certificate, or if it is provided in conjunction with a convention, conference, vacation, or sporting or fine arts event having a limited duration so long as the majority of the value paid by the recipient is attributable to the convention, conference, vacation, or event. An issuer may honor a gift certificate that has expired on or before the effective date of this act.

[mscdivina2016]

48 minutes ago, casofilia said:

What will happen to Discounts?   We have a 75% discount on a 19 day Suite on a cruise in December 2022.   I imagine that saved us about $20,000!!!

1) Cash?

2) FCC?

3) Another 75% discount?

Hey Mike!

I am wondering that myself. I should be in New Zealand right now on a 45 day cruise in a Balcony and booze and wifi for $9200 total for both of us thanks to Discount.That saved me over $9000. I still have 2 unused 25% ones not counting FCC bonus. Am trying to get back deep discount that I was offered for cancelled Spirit last year but am being told that was a one time thing. They cancelled not me? 

Steve

 

[mscdivina2016]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

FWIW, we had a cruise on MSC booked for May 2020 and one on NCL booked for January 2021. Both cancelled. MSC gave us 125% FCC (which we opted for since we hated having 0 cruises in our future), which I then used for a July cruise which WE have decided to postpone until end of August. NCL gave us our money back (deposit only and 2 CN certificates), and we have now used one CN to book a Japan cruise for April 2022. My point? The itineraries are different, as well as the ships. And we're paying more than $1,000 more for a smaller cabin. That's life. We aren't demanding anything. The OP is in a bit of a different situation due to the vastly higher amount of money sunk in, but this point is the same: the cruise lines are effectively shut down through no fault of their own. They didn't just randomly decide on a whim to stop sailing. They are legally forbidden to sail due to government laws and regulations. The reason they are accepting future bookings is that there are no current bookings to be had. All they have is the future, and there's no guarantee of that, either. I've had gift certificates that went unused because the restaurant or store went out of business. That's just how life is. I think the OP needs to give NCL a break here. Even his airplane example is not analogous. Airlines don't oversell and then bump people because they don't know how many seats are on the plane or whether they'll fly. They do it because research shows that a certain percentage of people are no-shows, and the more seats are filled, the more money they make. Capitalism 101. I think he just has to acknowledge that once he agreed to FCC, he forfeited the right to a cash refund and also agreed to the other T&C's regarding itinerary and ship. I'd be interested to see how his legal fight goes. I hope it's worth more than the money he stands to lose from NCL, unless his attorney works on contingency basis.

 

OP here,

For clarification, I want my FCC. I have over $25000 currently out there now with not just NCL but MSC as well.

 Its my parents. They are 81& 84 and I doubt after a few more months here that they will even be able to live in their own home never mind take a cruise. They are also not going to get a covid shot as an allergic reaction has possibly been identified.  That may be a whole new can a worms. What happens if you need a shot to cruise but don't want it or cant get it?

 STeve

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

OP here,

For clarification, I want my FCC. I have over $25000 currently out there now with not just NCL but MSC as well.

 Its my parents. They are 81& 84 and I doubt after a few more months here that they will even be able to live in their own home never mind take a cruise. They are also not going to get a covid shot as an allergic reaction has possibly been identified.  That may be a whole new can a worms. What happens if you need a shot to cruise but don't want it or cant get it?

 STeve

Yeah, I can totally understand that. I wish my mom were still with us. My dad fortunately still is, and he's planning to do a river cruise in Russia later this year. Your question about allergic reactions to shots is a good one. Perhaps the cruise lines would take a doctor's order (particularly if you submitted it well in advance of the sailing) indicating that. I know the current orders regarding legal entry into the USA allow people who test negative for Sars-CoV-2 and also positive testers who've recovered and have a note from a doctor, as well as the vaccinated. Seems like the same should apply for special cases like your parents. I do hope they get to cruise (as well as you).