Healthy Sail Panel asked to re-evaluate

[DaCruiseBug]

4 minutes ago, Mommu98 said:

source? I'm still not getting the vaccine. i absolutely believe in vaccines WITH historical evidence in side effects and health effects. I was vaccinated and so were my children, but I do not get the flu shot nor will I get the covid vaccine. We have less than 6 months of data showing long term effects. Reading the CDC and WHO website, NO ONE has the definitive answer yet. nor will they for years to come. 

 

"dosing began on April 23, 2020"

 

https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/BioNTech-and-Pfizer-announce-completion-of-dosing-for-first-cohort-of-Phase-1-2-trial-of-COVID-19-vaccine-candidates-in-Germany/default.aspx

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, Mommu98 said:

source? I'm still not getting the vaccine. i absolutely believe in vaccines WITH historical evidence in side effects and health effects. I was vaccinated and so were my children, but I do not get the flu shot nor will I get the covid vaccine. We have less than 6 months of data showing long term effects. Reading the CDC and WHO website, NO ONE has the definitive answer yet. nor will they for years to come. 

So, through all of this you have cited no sources, you have not gone into detail what side effects your mother had (I would assume adverse means she was hospitalized or needed at the least an epi-pen), and now we find out that the flu shot also has no data or long term information so you don't take that either?  Do tell...

Edited March 17, 2021 by oteixeira

[GA Dave]

Here is some good news.  Anyone think the local Wal-Mart or Kroger can say the same?  But, they are open.

 

Study Finds Transmission of Aerosol Particles Undetectable in Cruise Ship HVAC

[DCGuy64]

10 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Here is some good news.  Anyone think the local Wal-Mart or Kroger can say the same?  But, they are open.

 

Study Finds Transmission of Aerosol Particles Undetectable in Cruise Ship HVAC

So we can expect the CDC to revise its findings that, and I'm paraphrasing here, "cruise ships are especially dangerous disease vectors," right? They'll be giving the green light to cruising now that the evidence is that HVAC systems are safe, right? Forgive me if I remain cynical.

[GA Dave]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

So we can expect the CDC to revise its findings that, and I'm paraphrasing here, "cruise ships are especially dangerous disease vectors," right? They'll be giving the green light to cruising now that the evidence is that HVAC systems are safe, right? Forgive me if I remain cynical.

No, I do not expect that at all.  It just is another example of how this is not about the science, it is a vendetta against a specific industry.  If it was truly about the science, then many other non-essential businesses would still be shut down just like the cruise industry.

[DCGuy64]

Are you really from Savannah, @GA Dave? What a lovely city, BTW. Wife and I spent a couple of days down there two summers ago. BTW my heart goes out to the people of Atlanta today.

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, GA Dave said:

Here is some good news.  Anyone think the local Wal-Mart or Kroger can say the same?  But, they are open.

 

Study Finds Transmission of Aerosol Particles Undetectable in Cruise Ship HVAC

Yes, they can.  This does not study aerosol distribution in air currents within the space being air conditioned.  It studies whether covid can be transmitted via air that is taken in by return ducting (which may be a couple hundred feet long, pass through a cooling coil, a fan, a filter (of whatever type), and then through another duct (again, could be hundred feet long) to return to the space being air conditioned.  This is what I have said all along about HVAC systems, there is no data that the virus can survive, in a viable state, if at all, after transmission through an HVAC system.  Nearly every single building in the world that has central A/C uses the same system as cruise ships, which is why there have been no recommendations to revise HVAC systems in buildings.  Even ASHRAE only commits to saying that HEPA filters "may" contribute to "healthier air", and should be "considered" as "one element in a clean air system".

 

As for why cruise ships are an  "especially dangerous disease vector" is due to the typical crowding and long term exposure to potentially infectious people, not due to the HVAC system.

 

Come on, Dave, you made it sound in your post that the local Walmart was less safe than a cruise ship, which is not a proven fact, nor is it likely to be proven.  As for a vendetta against one industry, if you had read the CDC's requirements for ships that had a covid outbreak, and the remediation measures required, they specifically state that no modification or cleaning of the HVAC system is required.  So, they knew long ago (I believe this came out around June/July) that HVAC systems were not a contributing factor on cruise ships.  The old "CDC is out to get the cruise industry" dog is just way to old to hunt.

 

And, as to why other "non-essential" businesses are or are not shut down, could you please try to remember where the CDC has jurisdiction, and where it doesn't.

[GA Dave]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Are you really from Savannah, @GA Dave? What a lovely city, BTW. Wife and I spent a couple of days down there two summers ago. BTW my heart goes out to the people of Atlanta today.

Yes, I live in the western edge of the city, pretty close to the airport.  Love it here.

Yeah, the ATL news was not good.  It may be another example of the negative effects of this pandemic on people's psychological well being.

[JamieLogical]

Comparing risks on cruise ships with risk of going to Walmart is completely absurd. On a cruise, you share tight, enclosed spaces with other humans for long durations. Plus, if you become gravely ill, access to proper medical care can be many hours or even days away.

 

At Walmart, I don't interact with other humans for more than 15-30 seconds at a time and, if I fall horribly ill while in a Walmart, medical care is an ambulance ride away.