Non USA Departure Ports in the Future?

[time4u2go]

16 minutes ago, D C said:

Mexico is open for business and the idea of Cozumel as a home port has already been floated.  Why not?  Resorts on Cozumel are already including the required pre-return covid test.   Flights aren't that much more than going to FLL or MIA, and are cheaper than Barbados. 

 

 

One limitation with cozumel is the lack of a pier/dock that is suitable for loading passengers and luggage and provisions and fuel onto a cruise ship. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by time4u2go

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

One limitation with cozumel is the lack of a pier/dock that is suitable for loading passengers and provisions onto a cruise ship. 

 

And any kind of passenger terminal.

[Tapi]

4 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

They're packed, but you're still operating with a lot less frequency on those routes than pre-covid, right?

Not anymore. At one point in time we were operating a single flight on routes that normally had multiple daily flights. Some destinations went to non-daily service. But we are back to pre-pandemic frequency on the most popular leisure destinations. Europe and Asia are still lagging considerably though. Those are not expected to recover for a longer time, although we are gearing up for that recovery with many routes returning this summer. 

[D C]

8 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

One limitation with cozumel is the lack of a pier/dock that is suitable for loading passengers and luggage and provisions and fuel onto a cruise ship. 

 

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

And any kind of passenger terminal.

Challenges that could be overcome in short order. 

[D C]

12 minutes ago, Tapi said:

You’d be surprised. I worked for a major airline and not only are we operating international flights, but they are packed. In fact, we’ve upgraded airplane size to meet demand to many Caribbean destinations. And we are not the only airline doing that. Several routes that were operated with smaller 160-180 passenger 737’s and 320’s are now operating on larger 250-300 passenger 330’s, 777’s and 787’s. Cancun on any given afternoon looks like a mini-hub for several US airlines. 

If those Caribbean destinations include traditional cruise ports, it would help answer the question regarding how welcome cruise ships may be when cruising resumes. 

[time4u2go]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

 

Challenges that could be overcome in short order. 

Specifically how? They can't exactly build a new pier and terminal overnight. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by time4u2go

[Tapi]

17 minutes ago, D C said:

If those Caribbean destinations include traditional cruise ports, it would help answer the question regarding how welcome cruise ships may be when cruising resumes. 

People are flocking (by air) in droves to places like Mexico, Aruba, Jamaica and the Bahamas, and these countries are more than happy to receive them. And although they are still out of reach due to the CDC mandate, St. Thomas and San Juan have seen an increase in service above pre-pandemic levels thanks to cheap airfare and being considered domestic destinations not requiring a passport. In San Juan, American is now operating widebody 777’s from Miami, United is operating 777’s from Newark, and Delta is operating 330’s from Atlanta in addition to their other regular routes. 
 

It has actually become a problem in San Juan because the cheap fares and increased frequency have attracted droves of poorly behaved tourists who have been unwilling to follow protocols, terrorizing others, destroying property, and causing havoc in popular tourist areas. It’s reached a point where the local government has imposed tourist-targeted curfews in these areas to keep non-residents out. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Tapi

[Tapi]

Double post

Edited March 17, 2021 by Tapi

[PelicanBill]

The cost of flying to places outside Florida and NYC is not a trivial different for people in secondary airport markets. I can get flights to Florida routinely at $250-450.  To get the the Bahamas or any Mexico port is DOUBLE that in all cases.  Plus transfer of checked luggage which is a risk I hate to take before a cruise. 

 

Logistics at these small ports is a terrific challenge.  Total flight and hotel capacity.  Port congestion to move EVERY off and on the ship at once, plus supply logistics, all at once? And supply will have to be almost all shipped there to load, rather than delivered on trucks and loaded directly.  Very hard to provision fresh foods for 8,000 people on one day in the Bahamas or Cozumel.

 

Impossible at every port I can think of.  Temporary terminal could be done with Tents but you need big seating areas with fans, a network and computers, and a lot of employees to hire and train, or relocate temporarily, etc.

 

 

[twangster]

I could see Freeport becoming a cruise transportation hub in the future.  Once Royal closes the deal on the project and associated hotel it opens up a bunch of possibilities.  It could even be a means to cruise between US cities and not violate the PVSA if you spend some time in a hotel on land in between two separate cruises that each terminate or originate in Freeport.  

 

It's close enough to Florida that FL residents can take a ferry over and that proximity makes it relatively easy to take freezer containers of supplies over by barge to replenish the ships.  

 

Royal arranged charter aircraft and made deals with airlines to service Barbados.  They could do the same with Freeport.  The runway is over 11,000' long and there is US preclearance available.  Charter ferries could also be contracted.  

[Empehi]

The main advantage the cruise industry has is the ability to move their product to a location that will be the most advantageous to their bottom line. When California closed Disneyland, New York Broadway and the CDC stopped cruising, only cruising can move to operate in an area that will be open to them. If the cruise lines don't begin moving their sailings they are doomed.  So I say .... start moving the ships away from US (and Canadian for that matter) ports. Those that complain about only wanting to drive to a port well I say, don't cruise. All us folks in the Upper Midwest have always flown to cruise (even dealing with winter weather). It appears if we want to cruise in the near future this is the only alternative.

[SNJCruisers]

3 hours ago, Heymarco said:

For a lot of people it’s a flight to the Carribean vs flight to Florida, no biggie. For our European friends it would be even better because they can skip extra steps required to fly to US.

I can get multiple non stop flights to both Miami as well as Fort Lauderdale.  Non stop flights to the Caribbean are scarce and if available are more money than reasonably priced flights to FLA.  So for most passengers, especially the ultra cheapskates that remove gratuities, it would in fact be a biggie.

[SNJCruisers]

1 hour ago, D C said:

Going on a cruise and stepping foot in another country without a passport is mind-boggling to me.  

And thousands of families do it all of the time. 😕

[D C]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Specifically how? They can't exactly build a new pier and terminal overnight. 

Not sure why either would be required.  Drop luggage, check in, get on the ship.  Those are the required steps, and they don't necessarily need to happen in that order.

[D C]

18 minutes ago, Heymarco said:

I don’t get all the fuss about non-stop flights. Price is an understandable concern. However, anyone that doesn’t live near a major hub should be used to connecting flights. Or do people really only travel that little?

When you're near a hub, or even a smaller airport that does offer nonstops, you become a bit spoiled and that extra stop cramps your style.  Part of it is the cost balance of how much someone will pay to not have that extra stop.  Plus, if you have a SO that hates flying, that extra up & down is a deal-breaker if there's a nonstop alternative that's not a lot more. 

[time4u2go]

4 minutes ago, D C said:

Not sure why either would be required.  Drop luggage, check in, get on the ship.  Those are the required steps, and they don't necessarily need to happen in that order.

You don't think a terminal would be required?  Do you propose that they would just have their computer terminals outside?  How/where do they scan luggage?  What if it rains? 

 

And aren't you forgetting all the provisions (food, drinks, supplies, fuel, etc.) that would have to also be loaded onto the ship?  How and where would they do all of that while passengers are boarding via the existing narrow piers?

[D C]

14 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You don't think a terminal would be required?  Do you propose that they would just have their computer terminals outside?  How/where do they scan luggage?  What if it rains? 

 

And aren't you forgetting all the provisions (food, drinks, supplies, fuel, etc.) that would have to also be loaded onto the ship?  How and where would they do all of that while passengers are boarding via the existing narrow piers?

No. I don't think a terminal would be required.  The rest of those questions are very simple to answer if you shift from the current paradigm, but my answers would be pointless since there are no serious discussions on the topic, and nobody of significance has requested my consultation on the matter.

[time4u2go]

3 minutes ago, D C said:

No. I don't think a terminal would be required.  The rest of those questions are very simple to answer if you shift from the current paradigm, but my answers would be pointless since there are no serious discussions on the topic, and nobody of significance has requested my consultation on the matter.

Lol I guess that's what someone says when they don't have real answers. 🤔

[D C]

23 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

You don't think a terminal would be required?  Do you propose that they would just have their computer terminals outside?  How/where do they scan luggage?  What if it rains? 

 

And aren't you forgetting all the provisions (food, drinks, supplies, fuel, etc.) that would have to also be loaded onto the ship?  How and where would they do all of that while passengers are boarding via the existing narrow piers?

 

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

Lol I guess that's what someone says when they don't have real answers. 🤔

Fine. You seem to be under the impression that the way it's done today is the only way it can be done, and any deviation is an impossibility.  If you can't think of ways around the problems you see, here are some suggestions:

 

Let's start with provisioning.  This doesn't need to be done at the port of embarkation, does it?  Ships re-provision regularly at various ports, including food and fuel.   Nor does it need to be done concurrently with passenger embarkation.   If needed, the current model could be changed to disembark and provision one day and embark the next.  It's a day in port, but it's possible. 

 

A terminal is shelter and a waiting area.  How long does it take to build a temporary building in Cozumel?  A week or two?  And how many people need to be under shelter at once?   Not very many.  Even an easy-up tent could provide protection for a computer terminal, though any sensitive equipment could easily be in a nearby building.  With online check-in, paperless boarding passes, and agents holding ipads, the check-in procedure is quicker and more simple than ever. Schedule pax arrival times for when the ship is available to board and it's a simple process.   

 

These are not difficult challenges.

 

 

 

 

 

[HxFx]

Wow, I didn't think you could go on a cruise without a passport! I don't even rely solely on the card for land/sea port crossings. For me, it's not so much the cost/ease of U.S. ports for flying. Going from DC there are often limited flights to places like Barbados so if a flight is late or cancelled you may miss your cruise.

 

In retirement I can plan for several days ahead of time but that adds more vacation days. I was definitely nervous when we flew down to San Juan the day of embarkation. We didn't have much of a backup if the flight were cancelled. I do love the additional/different port calls of flying further south though.

Edited March 17, 2021 by HxFx

[Jeremiah1212]

12 minutes ago, D C said:

A terminal is shelter and a waiting area.  How long does it take to build a temporary building in Cozumel?  A week or two?  And how many people need to be under shelter at once?   Not very many.  Even an easy-up tent could provide protection for a computer terminal, though any sensitive equipment could easily be in a nearby building.  With online check-in, paperless boarding passes, and agents holding ipads, the check-in procedure is quicker and more simple than ever. Schedule pax arrival times for when the ship is available to board and it's a simple process.   

 

These are not difficult challenges.

 

 

Just to note, people complain and moan and write scathing reviews  when it is hot inside the air conditioned terminals in Fort Lauderdale or when they have to go wait a bit outside with no place to sit. Go back a few years and read the threads when Navigator was using a tent as a terminal in Miami. It was over the top dramatic. Didn't people even gripe that the pier itself wasn't sheltered in Coco Cay???

[M&A]

4 hours ago, Canadianmama3 said:

Agreed.  Yes there are a lot of people who drive to ports.   But there are also a lot of people who fly.  

Also can I ask.  Why do a lot of people in the US seem so hesitant to get a passport? I ask because as a Canadian it’s just normal for us to have passport, it’s not a big deal at all.  

A lot of people in the US seem hesitant to get a passport?   not sure if it's a lot, but some don't think it's necessary.  - Why would they need one if they can fly to Florida or the Carribbean islands like the US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico Hawaii.  Americans don't need a passport for a Caribbean cruise either.  So if you have no wish to travel to Europe and other parts of the world, then why would you spend $200 each for a passport that's not needed? 

If you are Canadian and you want warm weather you need a passport to get to Florida, or anywhere else.

Edited March 17, 2021 by M&A

[time4u2go]

18 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Just to note, people complain and moan and write scathing reviews  when it is hot inside the air conditioned terminals in Fort Lauderdale or when they have to go wait a bit outside with no place to sit. Go back a few years and read the threads when Navigator was using a tent as a terminal in Miami. It was over the top dramatic. Didn't people even gripe that the pier itself wasn't sheltered in Coco Cay???

That's a great point. Also, I would hate to think what it would be like in the midst of a bad rainstorm. 

[Empehi]

2 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

I can get multiple non stop flights to both Miami as well as Fort Lauderdale.  Non stop flights to the Caribbean are scarce and if available are more money than reasonably priced flights to FLA.  So for most passengers, especially the ultra cheapskates that remove gratuities, it would in fact be a biggie.

Just what the cruise lines need:  Ultra cheapskates that remove gratuities. I think the cruise lines can do without them.

[D C]

24 minutes ago, M&A said:

A lot of people in the US seem hesitant to get a passport?   not sure if it's a lot, but some don't think it's necessary.  - Why would they need one if they can fly to Florida or the Carribbean islands like the US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico Hawaii.  Americans don't need a passport for a Caribbean cruise either.  So if you have no wish to travel to Europe and other parts of the world, then why would you spend $200 each for a passport that's not needed? 

If you are Canadian and you want warm weather you need a passport to get to Florida, or anywhere else.

Americans don't need passports to cruise, but I personally don't think it's a good idea to wander off into the Mexican jungle on an excursion with nothing more than a drivers license and seapass card.  Hardly what you need for repatriation if things go wrong.   Yet a lot of people with passports leave them in their staterooms too.