Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[idiebabe]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

As has been explained by others on this thread, the common flu spreads by surface contact and droplets, while COVID-19 spreads by aerosols.  It is far more contagious and deadly than the common flu.  That is why masks were recommended for widespread use.

Did the others on this Thread get their info from the CDC?  Flu does spread by droplets when people cough, sneeze or talk within 6 ft of other people.  How Flu Spreads | CDC

[harkinmr]

23 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Did the others on this Thread get their info from the CDC?  Flu does spread by droplets when people cough, sneeze or talk within 6 ft of other people.  How Flu Spreads | CDC

The way COVID-19 spreads in aerosols is far more efficient than droplet spread with the common flu.  It spreads easier and farther than flu virus (beyond the 6 foot rule; e.g. those super-spreader events), and is far more contagious for a longer period of time.  Again, that is why masks are usually recommended only for those in close contact with flu patients (like caretakers) and are recommended more widely for use with COVID-19.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201014141026.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Edited April 22, 2021 by harkinmr

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

Thank you, especially because Moderna is what DW and I received.

 

Phyzer has also said a booster will most likely be needed by end of year.

[nocl]

6 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Phyzer has also said a booster will most likely be needed by end of year.

They have a clinical trial looking at the time frame between 6 and 12 months for the booster.

[Mosaic]

So when is this Thread going to get shut down???

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

The way COVID-19 spreads in aerosols is far more efficient than droplet spread with the common flu.  It spreads easier and farther than flu virus (beyond the 6 foot rule; e.g. those super-spreader events), and is far more contagious for a longer period of time.  Again, that is why masks are usually recommended only for those in close contact with flu patients (like caretakers) and are recommended more widely for use with COVID-19.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201014141026.htm

 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

We're actually agreeing more than disagreeing!  Noted in both our CDC links:

 

Similarities:

Both COVID-19 and flu can spread from person to person, between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). Both are spread mainly by droplets made when people with the illness (COVID-19 or flu) cough, sneeze, or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

 

 

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

We're actually agreeing more than disagreeing!  Noted in both our CDC links:

 

Similarities:

Both COVID-19 and flu can spread from person to person, between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet). Both are spread mainly by droplets made when people with the illness (COVID-19 or flu) cough, sneeze, or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.

 

 

Agreed, but the second link in my post does speak to differences in the type/extent of the spread. That is the important consideration in the masking recommendations for flu versus COVID-19, which appears to be a point of contention with some folks.

[Gracie115]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

They have a clinical trial looking at the time frame between 6 and 12 months for the booster.

 

Yes. This is what I read last week:

 

Covid-19 booster shot likely needed within 12 months, Pfizer's CEO says (nbcnews.com)

 

 

[Wonderingabout]

4 hours ago, T8NCruise said:

Now that they know how successful it is, perhaps it will be recommended in future.

Just how sucessful is it.  Are there any statistics?

 

Using Japan, Australia, New Zealand or any other country (usually island countries or countries with a single closed border ie South Korea.) as examples does show the effectiveness of quarantines.  In this case quarantining an entire nation.  Then again quarantining has always shown itself to be effective against communicable diseases.  But it does not show the efficacy of wearing a mask.  Distancing an entire population from the virus means that the population will not get the virus whether they wear masks or do not wear masks.  The test is -  given when there is little or no social distancing do masks reduce in any statistically verifiable way  the chance of getting the virus compared to not wearing a mask.

 

I have not seen any statistics that support this conclusion.  Certainly all tests with viruses prior to this pandemic showed that there was no reduction.  Statistics released in July by the CDC indicated that 70% of the people diagnosed with the Covid virus claimed to always wear a mask and another 15% claimed to wear a mask when in public.  (Yes you say but maybe 80% wear the mask all the time and therefore the mask is effective)  Anecdotally, In early March the County records office in my county was closed because of half of the employees in that Department being out with Covid.  The County is in a state and county that mandates all employees wear masks and no one is permitted in the County offices without wearing a mask.  But it appears that once the covid entered the facility the masks were not very effective in controlling its spread.  (Yes you say., but 51%  would have gotten the covid if not for the mask wearing.)  What good are anecdotes.   

 

What I am saying is presuming something is effective does not make it so.  We should have proof that it is effective if we are going to claim to be following the science.

 

But I must admit that saying and thinking that wearing a mask is somehow effective  is a cheap and easy way of  doing something positive can be very calming to people who have otherwise felt a total loss of control.

[Donald]

6 hours ago, Wonderingabout said:

Just how sucessful is it.  Are there any statistics?

 

Using Japan, Australia, New Zealand or any other country (usually island countries or countries with a single closed border ie South Korea.) as examples does show the effectiveness of quarantines.  In this case quarantining an entire nation.  Then again quarantining has always shown itself to be effective against communicable diseases.  But it does not show the efficacy of wearing a mask.  Distancing an entire population from the virus means that the population will not get the virus whether they wear masks or do not wear masks.  The test is -  given when there is little or no social distancing do masks reduce in any statistically verifiable way  the chance of getting the virus compared to not wearing a mask.

 

I have not seen any statistics that support this conclusion.  Certainly all tests with viruses prior to this pandemic showed that there was no reduction.  Statistics released in July by the CDC indicated that 70% of the people diagnosed with the Covid virus claimed to always wear a mask and another 15% claimed to wear a mask when in public.  (Yes you say but maybe 80% wear the mask all the time and therefore the mask is effective)  Anecdotally, In early March the County records office in my county was closed because of half of the employees in that Department being out with Covid.  The County is in a state and county that mandates all employees wear masks and no one is permitted in the County offices without wearing a mask.  But it appears that once the covid entered the facility the masks were not very effective in controlling its spread.  (Yes you say., but 51%  would have gotten the covid if not for the mask wearing.)  What good are anecdotes.   

 

What I am saying is presuming something is effective does not make it so.  We should have proof that it is effective if we are going to claim to be following the science.

 

But I must admit that saying and thinking that wearing a mask is somehow effective  is a cheap and easy way of  doing something positive can be very calming to people who have otherwise felt a total loss of control.

Is wearing a mask dangerous in any way?

Possibly for a few people, but many on Japan, Taiwan, and Korea have been wearing masks for decades with very little apparent damage.

 

Is not wearing a mask dangerous in any way?

Many studies - and most doctors (especially surgeons) suggest that wearing a mask does reduce the chance of you infecting others. Even if the studies and the doctors are somewhat wrong, or completely wrong, there is little harm or danger in being extra careful.

 

Is wearing a seatbelt in a car dangerous in any way?

Possibly for a few people. But most of us can wear them without any danger.

 

Is not wearing a seatbelt in a car dangerous in any way?

Some studies and some experts suggest that wearing a seatbelt in a car saves lives. I personally have never had my life saved by a seatbelt, and I don't know anyone who has - but that doesn't stop me wearing one every time I ride in an auto. Just being a bit more careful.....................

 

I'm working in a shipyard right now. The yard requires me to wear a mask, hard hat, fireproof coveralls, steel-toed shoes, and safety gloves. These items are very uncomfortable - especially on hot, humid days. None of these safety devices seems to be causing me any permanent harm. But none of them has ever saved me from illness or injury. Nor do I know anyone in the yard who has benefitted from wearing all this stuff.

Should I stop wearing these things because nobody can prove they are going to help me?

Maybe I should just play it safe and wear them anyway........................

[KroozNut]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:53 PM, Donald said:

Some studies and some experts suggest that wearing a seatbelt in a car saves lives. I personally have never had my life saved by a seatbelt, and I don't know anyone who has - but that doesn't stop me wearing one every time I ride in an auto. Just being a bit more careful.....................

 

But perhaps more importantly, following the law..

 

On 4/22/2021 at 9:53 PM, Donald said:

I'm working in a shipyard right now. The yard requires me to wear a mask, hard hat, fireproof coveralls, steel-toed shoes, and safety gloves.

Maybe I should just play it safe and wear them anyway........................

 

And again, follow established safety regulations from OSHA and other sources mandating wearing of that safety gear as an agreed to condition of your employment at that shipyard.