AUSTRALIA may not fully reopen until mid to late 2022

[Jim9310]

NEWS REGARDING AUSTRALIAN PORTS----

Australia may not reopen to international travel until mid to late 2022

 

For Cunard's 2022 World Cruises, has anyone heard what kinds of revised plans might be implemented, if Australian ports have to be eliminated? 

[intel]

50 minutes ago, Jim9310 said:

NEWS REGARDING AUSTRALIAN PORTS----

Australia may not reopen to international travel until mid to late 2022

 

For Cunard's 2022 World Cruises, has anyone heard what kinds of revised plans might be implemented, if Australian ports have to be eliminated? 

This article is based on pure conjecture by Coyle who is a features editor who lives in Yorkshire. Our Chief Medical Officer indicated by the end od 2021 borders will be opened again. The PM has announced when vaccinations are completed it will be reviewed in October. These announcements where made in April. The opening of the borders will be a medical decision by the States and Federal.

However the decision by Cunard is another matter and Australia is not the only country the ships will call at. I hope they will sail. 

[Windsurfboy]

Much as I very much hope Australia will open up for 2022.

 

It was based on a speech by the finance minister Simon Birmingham in advance of forthcoming budget. Who said they Will not  open up till later in 2022.

 

One of the reasons is the slowdown in the vaccination programme.  Astra Zenica was the backbone of the programme but they have announced they will not give it to the under 55s and will use Pfizer instead. Unfortunately they had not bought Pfizer and are now at back of queue. Australia are in a zero Covid trap, and cannot open up until everyone is vaccinated. 

 

I keep a close eye on it as we want to get there to see grandchildren,  looks like will have to wait another year.

 

So this report is pretty firm indication that the World Cruise won't be allowed into Australia in early 2022.

 

We are supposed to be catching Q.V. to return from  S.A. , fingers crossed but have booked plane tickets as back up

 

 

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

Australia are in a zero Covid trap, and cannot open up until everyone is vaccinated

So Australia may never reopen it's borders if they truly want 100% vaccination because they will never get that unless they are prepared to mandate it and I don't think they can.

[ace2542]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

So this report is pretty firm indication that the World Cruise won't be allowed into Australia in early 2022

You are assuming that Australia will allow cruising to resume once they reopen. But given what happened with the princess outbreaks. It is possible they may say no more cruise ships.

[Windsurfboy]

17 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

You are assuming that Australia will allow cruising to resume once they reopen. But given what happened with the princess outbreaks. It is possible they may say no more cruise ships.

 

All I said is it's most likely Australia will be closed at beginning of 2022 so it doesn't matter no one will be let in for holidays, cruise ship or plane . Didn't assume  anything else.

[ace2542]

25 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

All I said is it's most likely Australia will be closed at beginning of 2022 so it doesn't matter no one will be let in for holidays, cruise ship or plane . Didn't assume  anything else.

Interesting and worrying they won't give the Astra to over 55s. I am early 40s and had both doses second dose 2 days ago. I don't know what to make of all these countries with different age guidelines.

[LittleFish1976]

12 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Much as I very much hope Australia will open up for 2022.

 

It was based on a speech by the finance minister Simon Birmingham in advance of forthcoming budget. Who said they Will not  open up till later in 2022.

 

One of the reasons is the slowdown in the vaccination programme.  Astra Zenica was the backbone of the programme but they have announced they will not give it to the under 55s and will use Pfizer instead. Unfortunately they had not bought Pfizer and are now at back of queue. Australia are in a zero Covid trap, and cannot open up until everyone is vaccinated. 

 

I keep a close eye on it as we want to get there to see grandchildren,  looks like will have to wait another year.

 

So this report is pretty firm indication that the World Cruise won't be allowed into Australia in early 2022.

 

We are supposed to be catching Q.V. to return from  S.A. , fingers crossed but have booked plane tickets as back up

 

 

 

In Australia the guidelines are that AstraZeneca is the vaccine of choice for ages 50 and over but anyone under 50 may have it if they wish. There is no 'ban' on anyone having it. Pfizer is recommended for under 50's.

 

Also, the Federal government had already ordered the Pfizer product but ordered more when a local vaccine faltered in its development and then again when the AZ product proved to have the unexpected side effects. However, supplies of Pfizer are very tight and we are waiting, along with other smaller-population countries, (i.e. not USA) for supplies of that vaccine.

 

We're not in any sort of 'zero covid trap'; we're just happy to be living our lives with zero-to-little covid in community transmission (when there is any community transmission, action is taken to quash it entirely which is the sensible action. Any covid in the community will become huge numbers of covid unless action is taken). We look at the rest of the world and wonder at the tolerance for such high rates of community transmission. The rampant development of mutations of the virus is the result of that. Such a shame.

 

As for Australia not being able to 'open up until everyone is vaccinated' I assume you mean everyone in the world? Because THAT is where covid resides. As Dr Mike Ryan of the W.H.O. says 'if it's anywhere, it's everywhere'.

 

 

[lissie]

Given the NZ/Oz bubble then I can't see why  local cruises can't start next season ie October or so. If it doesn't that's purely political nothing to do with public health . 

 

There is an obvious hole in Australia telling citizens they can't travel overseas  -  fly to NZ and fly on from there. There's never been a ban on NZ (or others) leaving NZ - just getting back in can be an issue.  I suspect we will start opening up to the rest of the world once we're all/most vaccinated - end of 2021 . By open - obviously I mean open to vaccinated people only 

[david,Mississauga]

This situation could cause Cunard to completely re-schedule the Queen Elizabeth for a considerable time.  A comprehensive season of Australia-based cruises is planned from November of this year through next March. This is to be followed by cruises from Singapore, Japan and, starting in June, from Vancouver to Alaska.

 

I'm not going to speculate what Cunard might do if the Australia season can't go ahead, but we will be watching the situation closely as we have an Alaska cruise booked for June. These cruises appear to be selling well. Some categories are already sold out on our voyage.

[Windsurfboy]

12 hours ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

In Australia the guidelines are that AstraZeneca is the vaccine of choice for ages 50 and over but anyone under 50 may have it if they wish. There is no 'ban' on anyone having it. Pfizer is recommended for under 50's.

 

Also, the Federal government had already ordered the Pfizer product but ordered more when a local vaccine faltered in its development and then again when the AZ product proved to have the unexpected side effects. However, supplies of Pfizer are very tight and we are waiting, along with other smaller-population countries, (i.e. not USA) for supplies of that vaccine.

 

We're not in any sort of 'zero covid trap'; we're just happy to be living our lives with zero-to-little covid in community transmission (when there is any community transmission, action is taken to quash it entirely which is the sensible action. Any covid in the community will become huge numbers of covid unless action is taken). We look at the rest of the world and wonder at the tolerance for such high rates of community transmission. The rampant development of mutations of the virus is the result of that. Such a shame.

 

As for Australia not being able to 'open up until everyone is vaccinated' I assume you mean everyone in the world? Because THAT is where covid resides. As Dr Mike Ryan of the W.H.O. says 'if it's anywhere, it's everywhere'.

 

 

 

The bottom line is Australia is vaccinating at 80000 a day at thus rate 500 more days to give most people 2 doses, this needs to increase by a factor of 5 to make October deadline , factor of 4 to get adults vaccinated by end year.

 

Yes , Australia is in a good position we'd all like to have spent the last year there. But if Australia wants to continue to live with zero Covid,  which it needs to, then it can't open up until everyone is vaccinated.  Even then, it will have to accept some covid cases , but hopefully very very few deaths. If Australia wants zero Covid then that may never come.

 

The tolerance for high covid levels in other parts of world e.g UK was a consequence firstly geography and secondly of the decision that all citizens had a right to come home. 

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Even then, it will have to accept some covid cases , but hopefully very very few deaths. If Australia wants zero Covid then that may never come.

 

The tolerance for high covid levels in other parts of world e.g UK was a consequence firstly geography and secondly of the decision that all citizens had a right to come home

Citizens have to be allowed to re-enter the country they are born in surely. This could go on for decades you know. Are people to be trapped outside of Australia for years or decades which to some people might be forever and effectively forced into exile? I am surprising the Australian courts - though I admit I know nothing about them -  have allowed this. I don't think the American courts if someone mounted a challenge.

[lissie]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Citizens have to be allowed to re-enter the country they are born in surely. This could go on for decades you know. Are people to be trapped outside of Australia for years or decades which to some people might be forever and effectively forced into exile? I am surprising the Australian courts - though I admit I know nothing about them -  have allowed this. I don't think the American courts if someone mounted a challenge.

You can be a citizen without being born in a country - that's why the temp ban on arrivals of citizens from India is so controversial. 

[lissie]

I think this was over blown in the original report - Australia has always said END of the year - now its saying next year - that may literally be the difference between December and January.  

 

This is probably better reporting from a state news organisation https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australia-s-international-borders-will-remain-shut-until-2022-josh-frydenberg-says 

 

 

[lissie]

11 hours ago, david,Mississauga said:

This situation could cause Cunard to completely re-schedule the Queen Elizabeth for a considerable time.  A comprehensive season of Australia-based cruises is planned from November of this year through next March. This is to be followed by cruises from Singapore, Japan and, starting in June, from Vancouver to Alaska.

 

I'm not going to speculate what Cunard might do if the Australia season can't go ahead, but we will be watching the situation closely as we have an Alaska cruise booked for June. These cruises appear to be selling well. Some categories are already sold out on our voyage.

The Alaska season also needs Canada to open up as well doesn't it?  

 

If Australis is still closed to non-local cruisers next summer then I'd say Cunard may more to an extended season in Japan or even other Asian ports - Singapore and Taiwan have been cruising for months remember. 

 

We have a booking next July which is the repositioning from west coast USA to Europe - and I'm watching developments in Alaska with interest because I think that is what may kill the repositioning. 

[ace2542]

1 minute ago, lissie said:

The Alaska season also needs Canada to open up as well doesn't it?

I dunno they could do it out of San Fran, call into Seattle than Alaska and take vancouver out of the ports for a season?

[lissie]

2 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

I dunno they could do it out of San Fran, call into Seattle than Alaska and take vancouver out of the ports for a season?

No they can't - there's some stupid US rule  which  requires non-American flagged ships to not do "domestic cruises " (or even cruises to nowhere).  They literally can't do what Cunard is doing in the UK with local cruises - its illegal in the US! 

[david,Mississauga]

2 hours ago, lissie said:

The Alaska season also needs Canada to open up as well doesn't it?  

 

If Australis is still closed to non-local cruisers next summer then I'd say Cunard may more to an extended season in Japan or even other Asian ports - Singapore and Taiwan have been cruising for months remember. 

 

We have a booking next July which is the repositioning from west coast USA to Europe - and I'm watching developments in Alaska with interest because I think that is what may kill the repositioning. 

 

Canadian ports are due to open in February of next year. The order of the Minister of Transport provides the re-opening can occur earlier.

 

"Should the COVID-19 pandemic sufficiently improve to allow the resumption of these activities, the Minister of Transport has the ability to rescind the Interim Orders."

 

But even if the re-opening happens as much as four months earlier it will make no difference as there are rarely any cruise ships in Canadian ports after October.

[LittleFish1976]

13 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

The bottom line is Australia is vaccinating at 80000 a day at thus rate 500 more days to give most people 2 doses, this needs to increase by a factor of 5 to make October deadline , factor of 4 to get adults vaccinated by end year.

 

Yes , Australia is in a good position we'd all like to have spent the last year there. But if Australia wants to continue to live with zero Covid,  which it needs to, then it can't open up until everyone is vaccinated.  Even then, it will have to accept some covid cases , but hopefully very very few deaths. If Australia wants zero Covid then that may never come.

 

The tolerance for high covid levels in other parts of world e.g UK was a consequence firstly geography and secondly of the decision that all citizens had a right to come home. 

 

Citizens do have a right to come home, and in the case of Australia (as some other countries, I expect) we also have many many people with a legal right to reside here who are not citizens, for example those with Permanent Residency usually gained due to a family member marrying an Australian citizen and then being able to spend long enough here to qualify for permanent residency but who then return to live in their country of origin (but still have the PR up their sleeves as an option for times such as these). A quarter of a million people have returned to Australia since our borders were 'closed' and the list of people waiting to come home remains constant at around 30,000-odd. There are people joining that queue who have lived overseas for decades or have never actually lived in Australia at all. My point is, many people are being allowed to return, but they do have to do a period of quarantine. So, that was a choice we took and other countries didn't - the requirement to stay in quarantine for 14 days to try to keep everyone safe from covid.

 

Australia's vaccination programme had a slow start as the EU refused to allow our delivery of 3.8 million doses of AstraZeneca to leave Europe; this was the vaccine delivery that would have started our vaccination programme. I think we took delivery of around 280,000 instead. That certainly set us back. We have some Pfizer coming in in dribs and drabs, and now that under-50's are recommended to be receiving that vaccine, people in that under-50 age group will only be vaccinated as fast as it can arrive from overseas. Most of the Pfizer vaccine we have ordered is expected to arrive in the final quarter of 2021. We have also sent vaccines and medical staff to Papua New Guinea as we should, being their neighbours and given their awful covid situation. (as we have also sent supplies to India recently).

 

We are manufacturing all our AstraZeneca on-shore in Melbourne. There is a natural limitation on the speed at which that can be done. 1 million per week is the aim and as I understand it, the output is in that vicinity. 2.8 million people out of an eligible population of around 20 million have been vaccinated so far. Our vaccination programme is in fact moving faster than, for example, that of Japan.

 

Given that, and as someone has mentioned Japan in their ruminations about Cunard's summer programme and having to re-schedule, you might need to factor in the possibility that Japan will also be off-limits to international tourism, but due to safety factors.

 

So yes, our vaccination programme is slower than that of the UK or USA but we haven't had the supplies (such as the AZ that UK have taken delivery of from India; and we don't have the massive manufacturing capacity of the US or its legal situation forbidding the export of vaccines and equipment useful to its manufacture).

 

Australian adults will not all be vaccinated by October, 2021 - that ship sailed a few months ago. It will be another 12 months from now, most likely, given the constraints of supply. My greater concern is having a booster or an updated product as a primary shot which will cover the newer variants for which the vaccines we are currently using have limited coverage. And despite the vaccines, the prophylactic measures still remain vital for limiting the spread of the virus - if the experts are to be believed.

 

 

 

[lissie]

11 hours ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

Australian adults will not all be vaccinated by October, 2021 - that ship sailed a few months ago. It will be another 12 months from now, most likely, given the constraints of supply. My greater concern is having a booster or an updated product as a primary shot which will cover the newer variants for which the vaccines we are currently using have limited coverage. And despite the vaccines, the prophylactic measures still remain vital for limiting the spread of the virus - if the experts are to be believed.

 

 

 

Actually I've just thought of an alternative - by about October our  vaccinations in NZ should be well advanced - we're only using Pfzier -  hope over here for a quick jab and a holiday!  How it will actually roll out will vary by region - and although the next step is over 65s and pre-existing (and small country towns it sounds like) - the rest of us line up in July. 

 

You'll need a 3 week holiday to get both jabs. 

[LittleFish1976]

5 hours ago, lissie said:

Actually I've just thought of an alternative - by about October our  vaccinations in NZ should be well advanced - we're only using Pfzier -  hope over here for a quick jab and a holiday!  How it will actually roll out will vary by region - and although the next step is over 65s and pre-existing (and small country towns it sounds like) - the rest of us line up in July. 

 

You'll need a 3 week holiday to get both jabs. 

 

Don't think Aussies haven't been joking for weeks about 'vaccine tourism' to NZ, Lissie!

 

I'm lucky enough to have had my first AZ shot due to pre-existing ailments - would have preferred Pfizer but I was happy to take what I was offerred. I'll be over in NZ for (fingers crossed) the birth of my first grandchild in a few months and will stay for a couple of months so maybe I'll be able to get an updated booster while I'm there! (Just joking of course - I wouldn't dream of taking a vaccination away from a local resident).

 

Here, the vaccinations are now open to anyone over the age of 50 (AstraZeneca only).