Florida wins so Carnival can sail with kids

[kdr69]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They won't have to. They will come back with a modified CSO that accomplishes much the same, backed by science.

A modified CSO that will be considered as non binding guidelines and recommendations?  Bring it on.  Maybe the new CSO wont make them look like fools if they use current scientific data vs the data from 15 months ago they keep relying on.

[chengkp75]

Just now, kdr69 said:

A modified CSO that will be considered as non binding guidelines and recommendations?  Bring it on.  Maybe the new CSO wont make them look like fools if they use current scientific data vs the data from 15 months ago they keep relying on.

The non-binding requirement set by the judge is a sure point for appeal.  He first states that the CDC has the authority to set regulations for "free pratique", and then says that anything they publish will be non-binding.

[jimbo5544]

 

 

16 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The appeals court. The judge is blind.

LOL, because he did not see it your way....what was the pot and kettle reference again?  They got their butt kicked big time.  Take the loss and do the right thing this time.  

[jimbo5544]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

They won't have to. They will come back with a modified CSO that accomplishes much the same, backed by science.

Isnt it strange that the science based control faction had to be told to base new directives on science, current science.  Shows how out of touch they were and are.  I wonder if music when the directive was released was HAMMER TIME becasue the cdc got hammered, justifiably so.   Maybe MC is available to be their new spokesperson....wish I could attach wav files....

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

A modified CSO that will be considered as non binding guidelines and recommendations?  Bring it on.  Maybe the new CSO wont make them look like fools if they use current scientific data vs the data from 15 months ago they keep relying on.

ISn’t it sad that we can talk about that about the national health organization for our country?  The only one in the free world associated to the cruise industry that was out of step with reality?  Amazing.

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

14 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Maybe the new CSO wont make them look like fools if they use current scientific data vs the data from 15 months ago they keep relying on.

So what does your government look like with its covid policies?

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

The only one in the free world associated to the cruise industry that was out of step with reality?  Amazing.

Ever heard of Canada for all of 2021 and Australia (at least until September)?

[balcony bound]

50 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Where do you find that?

you can get it online, just add a dot com at the end:)

[kdr69]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The non-binding requirement set by the judge is a sure point for appeal.  He first states that the CDC has the authority to set regulations for "free pratique", and then says that anything they publish will be non-binding.

As the Order states

never has CDC conditioned pratique as extensively and burdensomely as the conditional sailing order; and never has CDC imposed restrictions that have summarily dismissed the effectiveness of state regulation and halted for an extended time an entire multi-billion dollar industry nationwide.

 

 

[kdr69]

8 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

So what does your government look like with its covid policies?

Fools

[SRQbeachgirl]

1 hour ago, skridge said:

If you look at post #654 that is what you said.  

 

I apologize for not being more clear. I was trying to point out that the CDC based current decisions on a March 2020 super spreader event, rather than basing their regulations on current science and conditions. The judge slapped them for it.

 

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

The federal judge errored. That alone would be grounds for an appeal. 

 

I am not a lawyer or federal judge, nor do I play one on CC. There is currently no appeal or modified CSO that has been accepted by the court, so what we currently have is the current judicial ruling.

 

34 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

I see......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-sick-ship-approval-fort-lauderdale-20200329-pymhibz6bvduxbwfgk2mil23ku-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

and see......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wsvn.com/news/local/florida/gov-desantis-orders-checkpoints-on-i-10-and-i-95-to-screen-travelers/amp/

 

Yes, unfortunately politics played a part in that case and several others. Politics and panic are a bad combination.

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

Ever heard of Canada for all of 2021 and Australia (at least until September)?

The Australia  reference stands on its own as you answered your own question.  Canada’s only cruise origin point is to the US, if you want to say that the only other exception has more draconian measures than us I will concede.  Every other country save 1.  I can live with that.    

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Fools

Amen.

[BlerkOne]

21 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

 

 

LOL, because he did not see it your way....what was the pot and kettle reference again?  They got their butt kicked big time.  Take the loss and do the right thing this time.  

Uh, nothing was lost. The case is still active. I'll survive whatever the outcome. You are celebrating prematurely with misleading information.

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Uh, nothing was lost. The case is still active. I'll survive whatever the outcome. You are celebrating prematurely with misleading information.

That is the point.  It is not about you or I.  It shows, and dramatically so they were totally out of touch.  Why go to great lengths defending the organization that (wrongly so, as shown by the judge) would keep the cruise industry on their butts until at least December if a certain Governor did not come to their aid?  Because he is the other party?  

Edited June 20, 2021 by jimbo5544

[kdr69]

 

16 minutes ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

So what does your government look like with its covid policies?

8 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Fools

Case in point they said they wouldnt lessen Border restrictions until there were 75% vaccinated with 1 shot and at least 20% fully vaccinated so they extended the border closures until July 21st.  Meanwhile those numbers were reached the same day they did that and so now they are announcing Monday some lessening of restrictions but not fully  until at least 75% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.

[BlerkOne]

23 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Isnt it strange that the science based control faction had to be told to base new directives on science, current science.  Shows how out of touch they were and are.  I wonder if music when the directive was released was HAMMER TIME becasue the cdc got hammered, justifiably so.   Maybe MC is available to be their new spokesperson....wish I could attach wav files....

How so? The CSO was a product of a prior administration that often was at odds with science. Just something the current administration was stuck with. Now they have a clean slate to start from.

 

Neither flavor of the CDC, alone or in combination, paused cruising for over a year. The industry had a self-imposed ban until Oct 31 of last year. Another mistake by Florida and the judge.

 

Politics absolutely influenced the CDC last year:

https://www.axios.com/scoop-white-house-overruled-cdc-cruise-ships-florida-91442136-1b8e-442e-a2a1-0b24e9a39fb6.html

 

 

[arkaine23]

Old data shows us how the unique environment of a cruise ship is especially conducive to spreading a contagious disease, how sailing a day away from shore puts a limit on the medical care available to passengers and crew, and shows the complications that come with evacuating sick people to foreign countries.

 

New data shows us there's less to fear from this disease now.  We have vaccines, can rapidly test/diagnose it, and are used to using PPE and distancing to reduce spread.  Cruising that has resumed elsewhere in the world indicates masks and vaccines and testing and preparedness can make it reasonably safe. 

 

 

What I see here is a state, a federal health agency, and a tourism industry having political arguments about public health vs privacy(? I guess) vs guest experience/feasible business operations.

 

Cruise with masks, distancing, and testing.

Cruise with vaccines.

Cruise with a combination of the above.

 

These are the choices as indicated in the CSO and by how cruising is working elsewhere in the world.  Pick one.  As for the details and finer points like %'s.  That is going back to mediation and the CDC needs to make a new CSO with supported scientific data, and the whole process is subject to the potential for appeal to a higher court.  The only certainty is that things are going to keep changing rapidly.

 

 

To me it seems like cruisin is resuming with a reasonable 2 options under the CSO.  DeSantis threw a wrench in it, with the purpose of removing the CSO entirely.  That's not a good thing for.cruise.lines to gamble with at least for the frist few months.

Edited June 20, 2021 by arkaine23

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

How so? The CSO was a product of a prior administration that often was at odds with science. Just something the current administration was stuck with. Now they have a clean slate to start from.

 

Neither flavor of the CDC, alone or in combination, paused cruising for over a year. The industry had a self-imposed ban until Oct 31 of last year. Another mistake by Florida and the judge.

 

Politics absolutely influenced the CDC last year:

https://www.axios.com/scoop-white-house-overruled-cdc-cruise-ships-florida-91442136-1b8e-442e-a2a1-0b24e9a39fb6.html

 

 

Maybe he will call you for an unbiased view..... I do not care which administration did it, none of should, it is immaterial to the discussion.  Let’s concentrate on October till now, you know the CDC who gave them a chart in the 6 months starting that.  I do not care of their excuses, do the job, or get out of the way.   PERIOD.  They failed, losers blame it others. Leaders do the right ting.  I will move on.  Still basking in the hammer time....

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

 

Case in point they said they wouldnt lessen Border restrictions until there were 75% vaccinated with 1 shot and at least 20% fully vaccinated so they extended the border closures until July 21st.  Meanwhile those numbers were reached the same day they did that and so now they are announcing Monday some lessening of restrictions but not fully  until at least 75% of Canadians are fully vaccinated.

It is that draconian mentality, they simple cannot release control, because they know better, or at least think they do.  Academia always micromanages every single aspect of anything ensuring disaster (or a cure by another cause).  

[jimbo5544]

20 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Uh, nothing was lost. The case is still active. I'll survive whatever the outcome. You are celebrating prematurely with misleading information.

What did the state ask for?  What happened?  In this paritcular case, I cannot think of a way they could have lost bigger.  

Edited June 20, 2021 by jimbo5544

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Maybe he will call you for an unbiased view..... I do not care which administration did it, none of should, it is immaterial to the discussion.  Let’s concentrate on October till now, you know the CDC who gave them a chart in the 6 months starting that.  I do not care of their excuses, do the job, or get out of the way.   PERIOD.  They failed, losers blame it others. Leaders do the right ting.  I will move on.  Still basking in the hammer time....

Gloat while you can. Nothing has changed. Even the cruise lines knew it was unsafe to cruise and voluntarily shutdown while planes and trains were still moving and spreading disease.

[jimbo5544]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

Gloat while you can. Nothing has changed. Even the cruise lines knew it was unsafe to cruise and voluntarily shutdown while planes and trains were still moving and spreading disease.

That is not the point and you know it.  I will move on....mention me when you post that you were wrong one time....just so I can applaud you on the effort.  Happy sailing

[kdr69]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The CSO was a product of a prior administration that often was at odds with science. Just something the current administration was stuck with. Now they have a clean slate to start from.

Forgive me but how were they stuck with it?  They created it didnt they so doesnt logic dictate they could change it or remove it? Also given that the current administration has reversed most everything else they were "stuck with" why did they not just do that here?

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Forgive me but how were they stuck with it?  They created it didnt they so doesnt logic dictate they could change it or remove it? Also given that the current administration has reversed most everything else they were "stuck with" why did they not just do that here?

There were higher priorities including getting the head of HHS approved and other stalled out positions needed for government to properly function. Oh, and a pandemic to deal with and more.