Getting a third dose - options.

[tert333]

I am opening a new topic as I am feeling less comfortable that our political leadership is going to put any emphasis on resolving our problem around taking their advice and getting an AZ vaccine followed by an mRNA. 

 

If people have been able to get a third dose or have thoughts of how you can get one, please post it here.

 

The problem that we are going to have is that if we do not get a second dose of an mRNA soon, then will miss the acceptable dosing window between the two mRNA's.  I am thinking the easiest is to find a place that will offer a JnJ vaccine to Canadians.   Then we could show that vaccine in places where the mixed vaccine is not accepted.

 

Thoughts?

[broberts]

Odd priorities.

[K_e_short]

3 hours ago, tert333 said:

I am opening a new topic as I am feeling less comfortable that our political leadership is going to put any emphasis on resolving our problem around taking their advice and getting an AZ vaccine followed by an mRNA. 

 

If people have been able to get a third dose or have thoughts of how you can get one, please post it here.

 

The problem that we are going to have is that if we do not get a second dose of an mRNA soon, then will miss the acceptable dosing window between the two mRNA's.  I am thinking the easiest is to find a place that will offer a JnJ vaccine to Canadians.   Then we could show that vaccine in places where the mixed vaccine is not accepted.

 

Thoughts?

 

This has already been brought up in other threads but I will repeat what has been said.

 

Every province has registry that only allows for 2 doses so you CAN NOT get a third dose anywhere but Quebec.

 

Quebec is allowing 3rd dose of Moderna or Pfizer ONLY if you got AZ as your first dose.

 

The 42 day window is only for mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna.

 

That means that if you can get a 3rd dose of whatever you got for the 2nd you are good based on CDC rules.

 

But that is only if you live in Quebec and your first two doses were in Quebec.

 

J and J is not approved in Canada and because we have so much supply of the other 3 types I'm not sure if it will be approved. The same risks that existed with AZ exist with J and J (blood clots, etc.).

 

So what are our options? And btw I got AZ and Pfizer and have a cruise booked in December. My son is 14 and has two Pfizer doses. He's good to go. I'm not.

 

Our option is to hope they drop the vaccination rules, that the CDC drops the rules on mixing doses, or your provincial government allows 3rd doses.

 

What do I think will happen? I think option 3.

[tert333]

2 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

 

This has already been brought up in other threads but I will repeat what has been said.

 

Every province has registry that only allows for 2 doses so you CAN NOT get a third dose anywhere but Quebec.

 

Quebec is allowing 3rd dose of Moderna or Pfizer ONLY if you got AZ as your first dose.

 

The 42 day window is only for mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna.

 

That means that if you can get a 3rd dose of whatever you got for the 2nd you are good based on CDC rules.

 

But that is only if you live in Quebec and your first two doses were in Quebec.

 

J and J is not approved in Canada and because we have so much supply of the other 3 types I'm not sure if it will be approved. The same risks that existed with AZ exist with J and J (blood clots, etc.).

 

So what are our options? And btw I got AZ and Pfizer and have a cruise booked in December. My son is 14 and has two Pfizer doses. He's good to go. I'm not.

 

Our option is to hope they drop the vaccination rules, that the CDC drops the rules on mixing doses, or your provincial government allows 3rd doses.

 

What do I think will happen? I think option 3.

Not sure what cruiseline you are cruising, but Princess stated on their call today that their vaccination rules are not dropping before the end of the year.

 

Just to be clear.  J and J is approved in Canada.  The doses that was sent to Canada were not accepted because of contamination.  However, you could get a vaccine in the US and it would be recognized as a approved vaccine.

[K_e_short]

4 minutes ago, tert333 said:

Not sure what cruiseline you are cruising, but Princess stated on their call today that their vaccination rules are not dropping before the end of the year.

 

Just to be clear.  J and J is approved in Canada.  The doses that was sent to Canada were not accepted because of contamination.  However, you could get a vaccine in the US and it would be recognized as a approved vaccine.

 

Carnival, NCL, RCCL, and Cunard all say on their websites that these rules are good until end of October. Will it be extended? probably.

 

O.k then to get a J and J vaccine in the US you need to do the following:

 

1 - find a place that gives out J and J

2 - book a flight to the US

3 - fly to a state that does not check for proof of residency

4 - get an antigen test prior to boarding your US flight

5 - get a PCR test prior to boarding your Canada flight

 

 

 

[mabt]

6 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

Quebec is allowing 3rd dose of Moderna or Pfizer ONLY if you got AZ as your first dose.

 

This is unclear.  CBC originally reported that it applied only to AstraZeneca mixes, but have since clarified that they misreported:

 

"This is a corrected story. A previous version stated that Quebec was offering the extra dose only to recipients of AstraZeneca vaccine." - https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/quebec-third-dose-covid-vaccine-travel-1.6117954

 

Quebec's website uses the AZ situation as an example of a situation that may require an additional dose for travel, but does not specifically say that *only* AZ recipients can get a third dose.  It only says that if an mRNA vaccine is required for travel, it can be given.

 

6 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

The 42 day window is only for mixed doses of Pfizer and Moderna.

 

Also unclear, and dependent on which cruise line we're talking about.  On Royal Caribbean, several people have asked and gotten conflicting answers.  When it has been escalated to supervisors, most often people are being told that the 42 day interval applies to any mRNA series.

 

6 minutes ago, K_e_short said:

J and J is not approved in Canada and because we have so much supply of the other 3 types I'm not sure if it will be approved. The same risks that existed with AZ exist with J and J (blood clots, etc.).

 

This is just inaccurate, although the bottom line is the same.  J&J was approved for use in Canada months ago.  We had one small shipment delivered; it was found to be tainted during manufacturing and discarded.  No other deliveries have been received.  I suspect the procurement office deliberately put a stop on it, because of safety and efficacy concerns.

[K_e_short]

I am just trying to help out people who are unable to look up the information themselves.

 

The answer to all these questions is online on the different websites.

 

I do apologize for using the incorrect word regarding J and J. Either way J and J is not available in Canada so does it really matter why?

[mabt]

Here's my take on possible options, with varying likelihoods of success.  You can make your own decisions on ethics and what lengths you are personally willing to go to.

• Outside of Quebec, no province has said - yet - that they will offer third doses for travel purposes.  (Ontario has taken the decisive approach of asking the federal government to "work with international bodies" to sort it out - as if they're not already trying.)  But it's not clear if giving third doses is explicitly disallowed in other jurisdictions, or just undefined.  At least one poster in another thread was told by a local pharmacist in Ontario that she could get a third dose.  There was one report of someone getting a third dose at a pharmacy in Calgary.  I asked (hypothetically) at two pharmacies in Ottawa yesterday; at one the assistant pharmacist didn't bother to follow up with someone who could actually make a decision on whether or not to administer the dose.  She just said that she "never heard of it", and I didn't push the matter.  At the other pharmacy the pharmacist tried to find an answer, came up blank, and told me to ask again when the pharmacy manager was on duty.
• Other provinces have no access to your medical records.  If you show up to a vaccination clinic or pharmacy, tell them that you are temporarily residing in the province, that you have only gotten one dose (or none), and ask for another, I suspect they would give it to you.  You may need to be able to give a "temporary address", although I doubt they would have any way to verify it.  Again, the ethics of this approach are for you to decide for yourself.
• You could fly to another country.  I hear vaccines are easy to come by in most places in the US.

In any of these scenarios, it is unclear what documentation you would end up with.  However, all provinces are giving vaccines to people who are not covered by local health insurance and can't be tracked in their provincial systems.  Presumably, they issue some sort of written proof at the time of vaccination.  Whether or not that would be accepted by the cruise line(s) is an open question.

 

[tert333]

8 hours ago, mabt said:

Here's my take on possible options, with varying likelihoods of success.  You can make your own decisions on ethics and what lengths you are personally willing to go to.

• Outside of Quebec, no province has said - yet - that they will offer third doses for travel purposes.  (Ontario has taken the decisive approach of asking the federal government to "work with international bodies" to sort it out - as if they're not already trying.)  But it's not clear if giving third doses is explicitly disallowed in other jurisdictions, or just undefined.  At least one poster in another thread was told by a local pharmacist in Ontario that she could get a third dose.  There was one report of someone getting a third dose at a pharmacy in Calgary.  I asked (hypothetically) at two pharmacies in Ottawa yesterday; at one the assistant pharmacist didn't bother to follow up with someone who could actually make a decision on whether or not to administer the dose.  She just said that she "never heard of it", and I didn't push the matter.  At the other pharmacy the pharmacist tried to find an answer, came up blank, and told me to ask again when the pharmacy manager was on duty.
• Other provinces have no access to your medical records.  If you show up to a vaccination clinic or pharmacy, tell them that you are temporarily residing in the province, that you have only gotten one dose (or none), and ask for another, I suspect they would give it to you.  You may need to be able to give a "temporary address", although I doubt they would have any way to verify it.  Again, the ethics of this approach are for you to decide for yourself.
• You could fly to another country.  I hear vaccines are easy to come by in most places in the US.

In any of these scenarios, it is unclear what documentation you would end up with.  However, all provinces are giving vaccines to people who are not covered by local health insurance and can't be tracked in their provincial systems.  Presumably, they issue some sort of written proof at the time of vaccination.  Whether or not that would be accepted by the cruise line(s) is an open question.

 

Good summary.  I tried the pharmacy where I received my original doses, and they said no.   I also contacted our local health unit yesterday to see if they had any options.   Will keep you posted.

[MamatoJack]

10 hours ago, tert333 said:

Not sure what cruiseline you are cruising, but Princess stated on their call today that their vaccination rules are not dropping before the end of the year.

 

Just to be clear.  J and J is approved in Canada.  The doses that was sent to Canada were not accepted because of contamination.  However, you could get a vaccine in the US and it would be recognized as a approved vaccine.

 

This is my tentative plan should things not improve. When (if?) the drive across border opens I plan to get a single J&J there (if still possible) and be done. I am AZ/Pfizer. My son turns 12 in December and unless they lower the age well before that he will get vaccinated then. We moved our cruises to March hoping this would all be cleared up as it was just too confusing and messy. That, at least, gives me some time to figure it out (PIF is late December so I'm hoping I will have a good idea by then). Flights are booked but as it's Orlando, worst case we'll do theme parks instead.

[tert333]

2 hours ago, MamatoJack said:

 

This is my tentative plan should things not improve. When (if?) the drive across border opens I plan to get a single J&J there (if still possible) and be done. I am AZ/Pfizer. My son turns 12 in December and unless they lower the age well before that he will get vaccinated then. We moved our cruises to March hoping this would all be cleared up as it was just too confusing and messy. That, at least, gives me some time to figure it out (PIF is late December so I'm hoping I will have a good idea by then). Flights are booked but as it's Orlando, worst case we'll do theme parks instead.

I am thinking the same as you with the J&J being the option, if all others fail.   I was talking to my regional health unit this morning.  The have been advocating people with immu-compromised individuals to get a third dose and have not been able to get any approval from the provincial for that.  So the regional units will not be able to provide any support to our situation.

 

In regards to updating the provincial system, there is a no way today to upload a third vaccine received outside of the province into the Covax system(ontario registry of vaccines).  You can upload your second dose, using a link on their website.  They suggested that I talk to my doctor concerning this as they may have a way to deal with it.  As a result, if we go down that path, we will need to have the mechanism in place to get it into the provincial database.

 

Their feeling is that the mixed vaccine provides much more protection than 2 doses of AZ.  They believe the science proves it out and other countries will accept them.   However, they could not state when that would happen, which is the 6 million dollar question!

 

 

 

[K_e_short]

When the borders open if you are able to go across the border to get J and J, please share this with this forum.

Specifically how you booked, where you booked. etc.

 

Let's help each other out.

[tert333]

Will do.  I wanted to open this up so that we could share ideas and approaches that worked.

 

I signed up for last minute cancellations today for a pfizer vaccine.   Got the call, but once I told them I had an AZ vaccine, I could not go.   Not sure what would have happened if I did not mention it, but wanted to be honest about it....

[lostinparadise999]

For Canadians and international cruisers. 

I was on HAL FAQ. HAL has changed their position on what is fully vaccinated:

 

For cruises departing outside of the United States, you may be regarded as fully vaccinated if you have received your first dose of AstraZeneca followed by a single dose of mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) to complete the 2-dose series.

[tert333]

22 hours ago, lostinparadise999 said:

For Canadians and international cruisers. 

I was on HAL FAQ. HAL has changed their position on what is fully vaccinated:

 

For cruises departing outside of the United States, you may be regarded as fully vaccinated if you have received your first dose of AstraZeneca followed by a single dose of mRNA vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna) to complete the 2-dose series.

Lets hope their sister company, Princess does the same....

[Robjame]

Getting on the ship is one thing. Being allowed to visit specific countries is a bigger problem.

 

Not all EU countries accept all AstraZeneca manufactured vaccines so you have to do your research.