Covid on Iona

[pete14]

51 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

 If the cruise lines and insurers sort out that position I doubt you'll hear much more "moaning". It's not the procedures per se but this one aspect which was unknown until the Iona Cadiz situation arose.

I wish I shared your optimism about there not being much more moaning. It seems to be rather prevalent in several threads at the moment. Do we have reliable corroboration about the ‘Iona Cadiz situation’ yet. A report on a social media site isn’t necessarily sufficient evidence to judge reliability.

[Swanseasailor]

8 hours ago, pete14 said:

I wish I shared your optimism about there not being much more moaning. It seems to be rather prevalent in several threads at the moment. Do we have reliable corroboration about the ‘Iona Cadiz situation’ yet. A report on a social media site isn’t necessarily sufficient evidence to judge reliability.

Megabear2

• •  255
• April 24, 2013
• Salisbury

• #213  

Posted Monday at 01:23 PM

I've just received the Executive Office's reply to my question:

 

QUOTE

 

Thank you for your e-mail to our Executive Team and for taking the time to write to us.

I do appreciate your concerns following a party of guests being disembarked in Cadiz, Spain due to positive test for Covid-19. I can advise to you that each case would be assessed on an individual basis to care for the health of the guest, but we have all the protocols in place to protect the wellbeing of all on board.

With regards to your comments and having contacted the relevant management, we would ask our guests to ensure their travel insurance policy fully covers them in relation to Covid and any situation in this regard.

Kind Regards

Emily Cole
Guest Support Representative
Office of Simon Palethorpe, President, Carnival UK and Cunard
Office of Paul Ludlow, President, P&O Cruises

 

UNQOTE

 

I had spelled out some detail the fact that at that point 4 companies had said no cover for quarantine without a positive test. I have now responded that I'm up to 12 companies with only two offering abandonment as an option.  

 

The reply, unfortunately, appears to put all the onus on individuals rather than offer any comfort or suggested solution.  I am not impressed.

 

While Megabear 2 is doing incredible work  researching insurance policy's  and Pete 14 makes a valid point in regards social media. It seems P and O and possibly other companies have protocols in place which negate insurance policy's we are required to have. P and O answers to Megabear 2  are smoke and mirror answers. Maybe P and O and the cruise industry would be more open if the Questions were being asked by newspaper reporters or our local MP in Government.

[PEMCO007]

Not cruise related, but just read a comment about someone who tested positive and his wife was negative.  She was not covered and told to go home whilst he quarantined, he was her carer and she was blind! I would like to think P&O would step in on an occasion like this, but what a horrible situtation for all concerned.

 

I  have no problem being removed from the ship for the safety of myself and others, but the uncertainty of what is covered is a concern.  

 

[Harry Peterson]

2 minutes ago, PEMCO007 said:

Not cruise related, but just read a comment about someone who tested positive and his wife was negative.  She was not covered and told to go home whilst he quarantined, he was her carer and she was blind! I would like to think P&O would step in on an occasion like this, but what a horrible situtation for all concerned.

 

I  have no problem being removed from the ship for the safety of myself and others, but the uncertainty of what is covered is a concern.  

 

Well said.

[Manx buoy]

13 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Apparently she arrives Gibraltar 5.00am tomorrow (2 days late according to this itinerary)

07 Oct	Departing from Liverpool, England hotels
08 Oct	Belfast, Northern Ireland
11 Oct	Gibraltar, UK
12 Oct	Cadiz, Spain, Sevilla
13 Oct	Portimao, Portugal
14 Oct	Lisbon, Portugal
15 Oct	Porto-Leixoes, Oporto, Portugal
18 Oct	Arriving in Liverpool, England

 

If our friend on the bluebird site spent two days quarantined on the ship before Funchal docking yesterday we seem to have his bubble testing positive very soon after embarkation and the ship detouring quite a lot. I'm not an expert on trip planning but this does seem very weird. Anyone with more expertise able to make any suggestions on what  may have caused this?

He also states in one post he’s on day 4 isolating then in a later post it’s day 2 I get the feeling somethings not quite right here not an expert opinion only mine😉

[wowzz]

I don't want to start a new thread, so apologies for the drift, but Regal Princess was late leaving Southampton last night, when two passengers on a transfer coach from Glasgow, tested positive at the terminal.

Princess then refused to let anyone from the coach onboard, which seemed to spark a mini- mutiny. Not sure what the final outcome was.

Supposedly the coach driver did not check test results prior to setting off, but you would think that the two infected passengers must have known their condition when they took the test.

[Josy1953]

13 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I don't want to start a new thread, so apologies for the drift, but Regal Princess was late leaving Southampton last night, when two passengers on a transfer coach from Glasgow, tested positive at the terminal.

Princess then refused to let anyone from the coach onboard, which seemed to spark a mini- mutiny. Not sure what the final outcome was.

Supposedly the coach driver did not check test results prior to setting off, but you would think that the two infected passengers must have known their condition when they took the test.

A lot of people are asymptomatic and the LFTs are not very reliable so it is possible that they didn't know that they were infected.

I didn't know that coach drivers are expected to check test results before boarding.  Is this all coaches, if so does it also apply to buses ?

I feel sorry for the other passengers on the coach but I can understand Princess's decision not allow anyone from the coach to board even though it may seem harsh.  Glasgow to Southampton is a long journey and having seen how many people don't know the correct way to wear a mask ( covering mouth and nose ) it is quite possible that other passengers on the coach have been infected but are not yet showing symptoms.  We find that we are constantly having to ask people to pull their mask up over their mouths and noses at our vaccine hub, a lot of people think that the purpose of the mask is to keep their chin warm   😂😂

[Megabear2]

Update:

 

1. Following the social media reports I spoke with my TA to ask if those in the trade had any knowledge of an incident. My TA is a personal friend of many years and she said she would put out for any information amongst her contacts. Her reply a day later states: 

 

"Apparently it was 3 couples tested positive and initially were going to isolate in their cabins but the port authorities said they had to quarantine

Still looking into if insurance will pay for partners those that tested are covered

P&O not been brilliant apparently"

 

I cannot comment on the last sentence as clearly it is just someone's opinion passed to my TA and not confirmed.

 

2. In the reply to me P&O appear to acknowledge the existence of the Cadiz "incident" but have skirted around it.  I have had another reply from the EO yesterday, again stating nothing:

 

"Thank you for your further email and I am sincerely sorry you are having such difficulty finding an insurance provider.

The majority of insurance policies are now explicitly stating they will cover medical expenses related to COVID. It is worth checking with your insurer if yours does not explicitly state this, but that would be unusual. Whilst some insurers provide 'Covid Cancellation cover' as an optional add on, this is not a requirement. Cover for medical expenses should you fall ill with Covid is, however, mandatory

P&O Cruises has partnered with Holiday Extras to offer appropriate, comprehensive travel insurance cover for our holidays.

All travel Insurance options offered through our partner Holiday Extras are appropriate for a cruise holiday and meet the £2m minimum medical expenses criteria.
We have chosen Holiday Extras (for UK Citizens only) as our preferred travel insurance provider and Holiday Extras can offer a comprehensive travel insurance policy that will cover you for cancellation, medical expenses, personal belongings, missed cruise departure, unused shore excursions, cabin confinement and cruse itinerary changes, as well as covering 97% of all customers with pre-existing medical conditions."

 

Again, stating the obvious, they are referring to "medical expenses" which we all know are covered by all the companies. There is still no mention of who covers offloading if your companion tests positive and you do not. Having become somewhat frustrated by these replies, I've decide to go for the jugular and sent the following:

 

"Thank you very much for your reply. There is some misunderstanding: I have not had difficulty in buying the insurance. Indeed my husband and I have intended to purchase the very policy you detailed.

 

However what they have stated quite clearly they will not cover quarantine ashore for ANY person who does not have a positive covid test. P&O are apparently removing companion passengers to those who test positive when their own tests are negative and these passengers are quarantined ashore in hotels.

 

If this is correct information then Holiday Extras and 11 other companies DO NOT COVER THE NEGATIVE TESTED PASSENGER. My question once more, who meets the costs of quarantine for these passengers please?

 

I am sorry to keep asking this but it is essential in my decision of whether to continue with my January and April cruises."

 

I await the next reply!

[Red Ray]

Had my 2 day test come back negative this morning.

[Megabear2]

33 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Supposedly the coach driver did not check test results prior to setting off, but you would think that the two infected passengers must have known their condition when they took the test.

I thought we had been here before early in the seacation days and that the message to drivers would now be commonplace. On a serious note if this is yet another LFT failure it's very worrying.  I can perhaps see why Celebrity and RCI have been insisting on PCR tests and maybe P&O have made the right decision on the fly cruises.

[davecttr]

Travelling in one of those company provided coaches puts you in a bubble. The drivers are meant to check for test results before coach boarding. Like the P&O incident this appears to down to the coach company.

 

Moral of the story, NEVER travel to the port in a type of transport where you can be considered to be in a bubble. Obviously a train does not apply.

[Son of Bare]

50 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Update:

 

1. Following the social media reports I spoke with my TA to ask if those in the trade had any knowledge of an incident. My TA is a personal friend of many years and she said she would put out for any information amongst her contacts. Her reply a day later states: 

 

"Apparently it was 3 couples tested positive and initially were going to isolate in their cabins but the port authorities said they had to quarantine

Still looking into if insurance will pay for partners those that tested are covered

P&O not been brilliant apparently"

 

I cannot comment on the last sentence as clearly it is just someone's opinion passed to my TA and not confirmed.

 

2. In the reply to me P&O appear to acknowledge the existence of the Cadiz "incident" but have skirted around it.  I have had another reply from the EO yesterday, again stating nothing:

 

"Thank you for your further email and I am sincerely sorry you are having such difficulty finding an insurance provider.

The majority of insurance policies are now explicitly stating they will cover medical expenses related to COVID. It is worth checking with your insurer if yours does not explicitly state this, but that would be unusual. Whilst some insurers provide 'Covid Cancellation cover' as an optional add on, this is not a requirement. Cover for medical expenses should you fall ill with Covid is, however, mandatory

P&O Cruises has partnered with Holiday Extras to offer appropriate, comprehensive travel insurance cover for our holidays.

All travel Insurance options offered through our partner Holiday Extras are appropriate for a cruise holiday and meet the £2m minimum medical expenses criteria.
We have chosen Holiday Extras (for UK Citizens only) as our preferred travel insurance provider and Holiday Extras can offer a comprehensive travel insurance policy that will cover you for cancellation, medical expenses, personal belongings, missed cruise departure, unused shore excursions, cabin confinement and cruse itinerary changes, as well as covering 97% of all customers with pre-existing medical conditions."

 

Again, stating the obvious, they are referring to "medical expenses" which we all know are covered by all the companies. There is still no mention of who covers offloading if your companion tests positive and you do not. Having become somewhat frustrated by these replies, I've decide to go for the jugular and sent the following:

 

"Thank you very much for your reply. There is some misunderstanding: I have not had difficulty in buying the insurance. Indeed my husband and I have intended to purchase the very policy you detailed.

 

However what they have stated quite clearly they will not cover quarantine ashore for ANY person who does not have a positive covid test. P&O are apparently removing companion passengers to those who test positive when their own tests are negative and these passengers are quarantined ashore in hotels.

 

If this is correct information then Holiday Extras and 11 other companies DO NOT COVER THE NEGATIVE TESTED PASSENGER. My question once more, who meets the costs of quarantine for these passengers please?

 

I am sorry to keep asking this but it is essential in my decision of whether to continue with my January and April cruises."

 

I await the next reply!

Can I ask Bear, who you are expecting to insure these people who are removed from the ship on a negative test, given you already know that these insurers will not?

 

 

[davecttr]

54 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I thought we had been here before early in the seacation days and that the message to drivers would now be commonplace. On a serious note if this is yet another LFT failure it's very worrying.  I can perhaps see why Celebrity and RCI have been insisting on PCR tests and maybe P&O have made the right decision on the fly cruises.

Yes you can get a false positive with a LFT test but they are very reliable if carried out properly. If you are going on a cruise it is better to get hold of a number of tests and test yourself repeatedly in the days leading up to your cruise. At least P&O will do a PCR test if you get a positive LFT result.

[Bin man]

Should we soon be hearing how the gentleman is ? His 10 days quarantine will soon be up. 

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

I don't want to start a new thread, so apologies for the drift, but Regal Princess was late leaving Southampton last night, when two passengers on a transfer coach from Glasgow, tested positive at the terminal.

Princess then refused to let anyone from the coach onboard, which seemed to spark a mini- mutiny. Not sure what the final outcome was.

Supposedly the coach driver did not check test results prior to setting off, but you would think that the two infected passengers must have known their condition when they took the test.

I said at the time of the review following the last incident, travelling by coach is fine as long as the coach company play by the rules. If not then while coach will be assumed close contacts at high risk of being positive.

[lujaha]

With regard to the accuracy of LFT tests.   My only experience is that my grandson tested positive with one.  He had been having classic symptoms.  The other 5 members of the household also took a LF and were negative.  The next day my grandson went and had a PCR test which was positive.  The next day the rest of us had a PCR and were negative.  This was a few weeks ago and none of us went on to get covid.  My grandson tested positive the day after his 2nd jab.  The rest of us are double jabbed except youngest grandson who was at the time only single jabbed.

 

[Megabear2]

41 minutes ago, Son of Bare said:

Can I ask Bear, who you are expecting to insure these people who are removed from the ship on a negative test, given you already know that these insurers will not?

 

 

I'm not expecting anyone to insure them. I am expecting the cruise companies/insurance companies to tell people upfront that passengers may be removed from the ships in the event of possible infection of them and/or their travelling companion remaining negative and that the costs for any quarantine in most cases will not be covered by the insurances they are promoting.

 

Basically there's lots of clauses protecting the cruise companies in the booking terms and conditions as pointed out elsewhere by Molecrochip.  I think it's only fair that a "buyer beware" clause should be just as prominently displayed as the upselling of Covid travel insurance.

 

There are people on these threads for whom offloading would cause major stress and problems, myself included, surely it is not unreasonable for the cruise companies to put them in an informed position to make their personal decisions?

 

These cases are miniscule in comparison with the number sailing and therefore it would not be impossible to say in the very unlikely case of such and such. Most on here are reasonable, sensible people and would probably travel because the risk was affordable and not disastrous. Those with medical issues or work commitments may feel differently.

 

Sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it will go away is not a good idea for the companies.  Eventually someone will be caught out, not be able to pay and scream loudly to the press.  Other than that if the cruise lines are looking after these unfortunate people, well what great PR for them.

[Megabear2]

Perhaps I might be getting somewhere!  Latest reply from Executive Office:

 

Quote

 

Dear 

Thank you for your further correspondence and I am extremely sorry for mis - interpreting your email.  

And yes this is a very good question and I completely understand your worry - I am so sorry that I have never come across this before, but I will endeavour of course to find out for you.

Please leave this with me and we will get back to you once I have a comprehensive answer.

Warmest regards

 

Unquote 
 

[PEMCO007]

19 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm not expecting anyone to insure them. I am expecting the cruise companies/insurance companies to tell people upfront that passengers may be removed from the ships in the event of possible infection of them and/or their travelling companion remaining negative and that the costs for any quarantine in most cases will not be covered by the insurances they are promoting.

 

Basically there's lots of clauses protecting the cruise companies in the booking terms and conditions as pointed out elsewhere by Molecrochip.  I think it's only fair that a "buyer beware" clause should be just as prominently displayed as the upselling of Covid travel insurance.

 

There are people on these threads for whom offloading would cause major stress and problems, myself included, surely it is not unreasonable for the cruise companies to put them in an informed position to make their personal decisions?

 

These cases are miniscule in comparison with the number sailing and therefore it would not be impossible to say in the very unlikely case of such and such. Most on here are reasonable, sensible people and would probably travel because the risk was affordable and not disastrous. Those with medical issues or work commitments may feel differently.

 

Sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it will go away is not a good idea for the companies.  Eventually someone will be caught out, not be able to pay and scream loudly to the press.  Other than that if the cruise lines are looking after these unfortunate people, well what great PR for them.

I agree, this is all I would like to have been aware of, it may of persuading me from booking, or having known all my options may have decided to continue anyway.  I think it is only fair to be transparent in this instance.  For what its worth, Saga have also confirmed, cover is only for positive cases.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Son of Bare said:

Can I ask Bear, who you are expecting to insure these people who are removed from the ship on a negative test, given you already know that these insurers will not?

 

 

Well since P&O are the ones forcing them to leave the cruise, then I would think they ought to be liable for costs. Of course if they are offering a full refund to both passengers then this might in fact cover any costs for the companion which are not met by their insurer.

[Son of Bare]

32 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I'm not expecting anyone to insure them. I am expecting the cruise companies/insurance companies to tell people upfront that passengers may be removed from the ships in the event of possible infection of them and/or their travelling companion remaining negative and that the costs for any quarantine in most cases will not be covered by the insurances they are promoting.

 

Basically there's lots of clauses protecting the cruise companies in the booking terms and conditions as pointed out elsewhere by Molecrochip.  I think it's only fair that a "buyer beware" clause should be just as prominently displayed as the upselling of Covid travel insurance.

 

There are people on these threads for whom offloading would cause major stress and problems, myself included, surely it is not unreasonable for the cruise companies to put them in an informed position to make their personal decisions?

 

These cases are miniscule in comparison with the number sailing and therefore it would not be impossible to say in the very unlikely case of such and such. Most on here are reasonable, sensible people and would probably travel because the risk was affordable and not disastrous. Those with medical issues or work commitments may feel differently.

 

Sticking their heads in the sand and pretending it will go away is not a good idea for the companies.  Eventually someone will be caught out, not be able to pay and scream loudly to the press.  Other than that if the cruise lines are looking after these unfortunate people, well what great PR for them.

In your previous post to which I replied.

'So i ask once again who meets the costs of quarantine for these (negatively tested) passengers please'.

 

Which is why I asked you who you thought should be bearing the cost (if you'll forgive the pun🤭).

 

Now you are saying you are not expecting anyone to insure them so I'm a kittle puzzled why you wanted the question answering in the first instance?

 

In my policy documents I have clauses which state the maximum figure Staysure will fork out for my holiday being cut short. With cruise cover plus this amounts to £2250 in my case. They will also pay a figure of upto 15k if my cruise is cut short.

This will be in addition to any medical expenses I expect (though I have not called Staysure to check this).

 

Not inconsiderable amounts for European cruises, and perhaps an answer in part to your question, for those with a similar policy?

[Son of Bare]

Apologies.

That should have read upto 15k for cruise cut short and 2.25k for cruise interruption.

[Megabear2]

I am not looking at only European holidays, I'm afraid.  I have an extended Caribbean round trip, a Caribbean fly cruise,  an extended transatlantic and a Canaries.

 

Clearly you wish to play devil's advocate so in answer to your question as this is a new policy not stated to the passengers there is apparently no firm answer under current policies.  It could be that due to all this happening out of the blue and unexpectedly the cruise companies are meeting the costs, or it could be the passenger is. Either way no one knows and hence the question to the companies (and I have contacted the three I have cruises booked with and await their replies). I dont think I'm unreasonable expecting transparency. I have already said my piece on this element and will stick with it.

 

Regarding Staysure, when I spoke with them they were one of the companies who were unsure if their policy would definitely pay out on the cutting short element if you were sent into quarantine for Covid if you do not test positive.  Members of my family have their policies with them and have independently called with the scenario. They have all been told the same, no quarantine cover but curtailment on a case by case basis. In other words take your chance and hope the curtailment will be paid. I was directed to the specific clauses on Covid when I enquired not the curtailment section.

 

Interestingly I've taken a call from Cover For You an hour ago on behalf of my octogenarian aunt. They had taken the opportunity to speak directly to the underwriter and claims department.  Both said there would be no cover at all, neither quarantine or curtailment as the risk would be known by the purchaser.

[PEMCO007]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I am not looking at only European holidays, I'm afraid.  I have an extended Caribbean round trip, a Caribbean fly cruise,  an extended transatlantic and a Canaries.

 

Clearly you wish to play devil's advocate so in answer to your question as this is a new policy not stated to the passengers there is apparently no firm answer under current policies.  It could be that due to all this happening out of the blue and unexpectedly the cruise companies are meeting the costs, or it could be the passenger is. Either way no one knows and hence the question to the companies (and I have contacted the three I have cruises booked with and await their replies). I dont think I'm unreasonable expecting transparency. I have already said my piece on this element and will stick with it.

 

Regarding Staysure, when I spoke with them they were one of the companies who were unsure if their policy would definitely pay out on the cutting short element if you were sent into quarantine for Covid if you do not test positive.  Members of my family have their policies with them and have independently called with the scenario. They have all been told the same, no quarantine cover but curtailment on a case by case basis. In other words take your chance and hope the curtailment will be paid. I was directed to the specific clauses on Covid when I enquired not the curtailment section.

 

Interestingly I've taken a call from Cover For You an hour ago on behalf of my octogenarian aunt. They had taken the opportunity to speak directly to the underwriter and claims department.  Both said there would be no cover at all, neither quarantine or curtailment as the risk would be known by the purchaser.

Oh dear! this seem to be getting worse.  The more we know the worse it appears. How would we have known the risks if we hadn't been on here, as it sure hasn't been pointed out by the cruiseline. Now I am thinking, is it best not to know? oh, to go back to the days when travelling was easy x

 

[Megabear2]

The point is it may not be bad in any way at all! All the cruise lines have to say is how they believe the matter to be covered and the customer can then speak to the relevant parties.

 

None of this may even be necessary. If the cruise lines have been taken on the hop by the ports they will no doubt be all over it finding a solution.

 

I've decided not to worry until someone says something definite.  There's little point until we know what's actually happening, hence asking the cruise lines.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Megabear2
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