Covid on Iona

[watsonbeau]

Megabear2 thank you for all your investigations.  Hopefully P&0 and Cunard will give some clarity.

 

There was a thread re coach travel to Southampton where all passengers barred boarding as one positive onboard - as I was booked for coach to port. We are now driving down but before we cancelled the coach I emailed (Cunard). This is the reply today.  I have replied back and asked if same would apply on any excursions at ports booked with the cruise line that involve coaches - I await their reply - as these are a weak spot if you are wanting to avoid possibility of being classed as a close contact.
 

Edited October 29, 2021 by watsonbeau
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[terrierjohn]

6 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Glad you have enough money to pay for quarantine yourself. Sadly I'm afraid I and many others do not, and also after being quoted nearly £900 for a policy of insurance my husband quite rightly would expect proper cover.

 

Besides some seem to think I have it in for the insurance companies; I'm afraid that isnt the case. They are selling policies in difficult circumstances and are willing to take a level of risk accordingly.  That's business and I cannot take issue with them. 

 

Long before this thread opened I became aware of the quarantine issues (not just cruising ones) because while shopping the market I made a list of pertinent questions.  The most obvious one was quarantine. It had nothing whatsoever to do with cruising, offloading or ports removing passengers.  It had everything to do with buying the best possible cover for my family which includes people with very serious health conditions and old age.  

 

I too have travelled extensively this year on staycation cruises, land based trips to Europe and hotel based holidays in the UK and this is exactly why I took the time to research fully.

 

Like many have also said it is the cruise lines' lack of clarity I have issue with.  If as suggested by Molecrochip (and also my t/a today) they have been taken by surprise with ports insisting on offloading negative passengers then it's for them to look at the situation urgently and offer comfort to their clientele.  I believe they will do so and work out a solution either with the insurance companies they work with for passengers or directly with their own. 

 

My conversations with Cunard and P&O about this issue go back to August which is why I'm a long way forward in the issue in comparison with most. I'm fortunate to have time and knowledge of how to do this research -  I spent a large part of my working life doing exactly that. 

 

I think Moley's recent post was intended to allay concerns that any passenger would be left to pay the quarantine bill.

But both P&O and the insurance companies are trying to avoid putting anything in writing that the other could use as showing they would be responsible. However Moley, I think, was indicating it would never be the passenger.

[Snow Hill]

8 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Mega has extremely good reason to not trust insurance companies as she's spent a lifetime working with them through the law offices she's worked in, and knows that sadly they will do anything to not pay out if they can.  Yes, if it's a clear cut case they can be relied on and I too have had good experiences in my 60 odd years following claims for sickness, cancellation, redundancy and death but I've also had to fight for payment for ambulances (private ones not included), changing from a local hospital to a private one after a broken wrist was set wrongly and being at risk of amputation as a result and also being told cancellation for my dying father wasn't a good enough reason for them to pay out. So yes, I do spend "inordinate" amounts of time on ensuring I'm fully insured.  That's my choice. Although I have shared my findings and information here, if it is unhelpful and not required I will cease to share any further.  

 

I have no desire to cause stress to anyone.

Your work on the insurance issue has been measure & professional, hope you continue your good work on the matter as having clear travel cover is essential, ignore the minority who try to decry your work.

[zap99]

3 hours ago, Electra 7 said:

You were lucky to find one we could not get insurance with anyone while hubby was waiting results so we could not go on 1st October 

Goodtogo. They gave full cover except for cancellations due to a procedure coming up at the same time as the holiday. That wasn't a problem for us as the procedure date could be moved.

[Megabear2]

41 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I think Moley's recent post was intended to allay concerns that any passenger would be left to pay the quarantine bill.

But both P&O and the insurance companies are trying to avoid putting anything in writing that the other could use as showing they would be responsible. However Moley, I think, was indicating it would never be the passenger.

Indeed I am sure that is true.  Unfortunately legal contracts as we know exist once you pay a deposit and you are accepting the terms and conditions as such.  Therefore without a written legal obligation Molecrochip is saying the companies are effectively helping passengers in trouble but have absolutely no obligation to do so. It's a bit like a goodwill gesture. 

 

On another board sometime ago I was asking about testing. Molecrochip pointed out in the strongest terms the length and complexity of the terms and conditions forming contracts with the cruise line, going so far as they wanted to see a cruise industry in two years time.  It appears at the moment to be all one way.  If other cruise  lines are happy to offer comfort in their terms and conditions I cannot see why P&O/Cunard et al are not prepared to do the same.  If their financial position is so dire they feel the need to argue over payments for what are at present only a few passengers goodness knows why they expect us to continue to book.  Long gone, I'm afraid, is my word is my bond.  There is a whole industry built up around claim avoidance which companies of all ilks use. It is a very naive customer who does not require their contract to outline fully their rights.

[molecrochip]

13 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I think Moley's recent post was intended to allay concerns that any passenger would be left to pay the quarantine bill.

But both P&O and the insurance companies are trying to avoid putting anything in writing that the other could use as showing they would be responsible. However Moley, I think, was indicating it would never be the passenger.

Good summary.

 

12 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

Indeed I am sure that is true.  Unfortunately legal contracts as we know exist once you pay a deposit and you are accepting the terms and conditions as such.  Therefore without a written legal obligation Molecrochip is saying the companies are effectively helping passengers in trouble but have absolutely no obligation to do so. It's a bit like a goodwill gesture. 

 

On another board sometime ago I was asking about testing. Molecrochip pointed out in the strongest terms the length and complexity of the terms and conditions forming contracts with the cruise line, going so far as they wanted to see a cruise industry in two years time.  It appears at the moment to be all one way.  If other cruise  lines are happy to offer comfort in their terms and conditions I cannot see why P&O/Cunard et al are not prepared to do the same.  If their financial position is so dire they feel the need to argue over payments for what are at present only a few passengers goodness knows why they expect us to continue to book.  Long gone, I'm afraid, is my word is my bond.  There is a whole industry built up around claim avoidance which companies of all ilks use. It is a very naive customer who does not require their contract to outline fully their rights.

My understanding on this is that the cruise line does not have an obligation to the passenger but, under the restart protocols, has an obligation to the port that it will pay if no one else does. However where the cruise live can pass the burden to the insurance company, it will do. That is why such hefty insurance is now a condition of travel.

 

Do remember, in law a company trades for the benefit of its shareholders, not it’s customers. Therefore if it can pass on a cost, related to a customer, to a valid insurance policy held by a customer, then it’s obligation to its shareholders is to do so. If saying something about being the last resort payer of costs will prejudice this position, then it says nothing.

 

An insurance company is similar, only paying it if has a watertight obligation to do so.

 

That said, I understand why people want confirmation however it does appear neither side want to give that, despite the practical result for the customer being OK one way or other.

 

Interestingly, since all this has started we have now has the confirmation of quarantine on ship unless port authority insists otherwise.

 

I agree with the sentiment outlined above, which I would summarise as Carnival U.K. having a ‘knowledge is power’ mentality. BUT I honestly don’t actually think this is being done to avoid costs or pass them on to the passenger, it just looks like that.

 

If you look back at my posts from April-June 2020, you’ll see I was a lot more defensive of the company. Even I agree that their provision and timeliness of information has been poor. Additionally the inconsistency of the protocols cross U.K. staycations for Princess, Cunard and P&O was bizarre at best.

 

Finally, given the 18 months that the business has had, their financial position is surprisingly robust with considerable cash in the bank/liquid assets - $6bn or so. Yes there were lots of expensive loans but these have mostly now all been converted into either new loans at reasonable rates, or repaid through the sale of additional equity.

 

My point being, we’ve moved beyond the survival phase into rebuilding and I think decisions are being made under that later lense rather than the former.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

However where the cruise live can pass the burden to the insurance company, it will do. That is why such hefty insurance is now a condition of travel.

 

Do remember, in law a company trades for the benefit of its shareholders, not it’s customers. Therefore if it can pass on a cost, related to a customer, to a valid insurance policy held by a customer, then it’s obligation to its shareholders is to do so. If saying something about being the last resort payer of costs will prejudice this position, then it says nothing

 

That said, I understand why people want confirmation however it does appear neither side want to give that, despite the practical result for the customer being OK one way or other.

 

Interestingly, since all this has started we have now has the confirmation of quarantine on ship unless port authority insists otherwise.

 

I agree with the sentiment outlined above, which I would summarise as Carnival U.K. having a ‘knowledge is power’ mentality. BUT I honestly don’t actually think this is being done to avoid costs or pass them on to the passenger, it just looks like that.

 

Surely in the UK they have always insisted on insurance?  They must know what cover these policies offer?  I was directed to Holiday Extras as offering all the cover I required.  This is the "recommended" insurer. It is, as most who have taken quotes from them, extremely expensive compared with others in the market.  It is not in any way different from other cruise policies and does not offer cover for any form of quarantine. P&O etc may not be aware but Holiday Extras until July this year were underwritten by TIF group, a company with a very chequered history on paying claims. Any policies bought under this underwriter were enormously expensive and many bought the annual one as it was recommended.  In July this year TIF pulled out of the market and Holiday Extras changed underwriter to Great Lakes, this different policy is cheaper, probably providing better cover but still not the scenario that has occurred. Not much use to those who had already paid upfront.

 

Today I had notification from RCI as follows:

 

"One more extension is for Royal Caribbean's COVID-19 Assistance program, which covers passengers if anyone tests positive within 14 days of the cruise, or while onboard. Vaccinated guests and children not yet eligible to be vaccinated who are sailing on or before April 30th, 2022 will have the following COVID-19 Assistance at no extra charge:

 

100% cruise fare refund for you, and your Traveling Party, if any of you tests positive for COVID-19 within 14 days prior to the cruise or at the boarding terminal.

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund if your cruise is cut short for reasons related to COVID-19.

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Royal Caribbean will cover the costs of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard, any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you and your Traveling Party."

 

They've also extended the 30 day final payment for this period. They have shareholders and creditors but dont seem too worried? As a customer it just seems like bloody mindedness on P&O's part.

 

Regarding "rebuilding" combine this stubborn refusal to offer comfort, with the dreadful IT, failure to be able to speak to anyone on the telephone, lack of response to emails etc (see the numerous posts on other sections of the P&O board from people saying never again) and it looks like a recipe for disaster and that's even before press etc get a whiff of what's going on.

 

And for what?

 

[zap99]

22 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Surely in the UK they have always insisted on insurance?  They must know what cover these policies offer?  I was directed to Holiday Extras as offering all the cover I required.  This is the "recommended" insurer. It is, as most who have taken quotes from them, extremely expensive compared with others in the market.  It is not in any way different from other cruise policies and does not offer cover for any form of quarantine. P&O etc may not be aware but Holiday Extras until July this year were underwritten by TIF group, a company with a very chequered history on paying claims. Any policies bought under this underwriter were enormously expensive and many bought the annual one as it was recommended.  In July this year TIF pulled out of the market and Holiday Extras changed underwriter to Great Lakes, this different policy is cheaper, probably providing better cover but still not the scenario that has occurred. Not much use to those who had already paid upfront.

 

Today I had notification from RCI as follows:

 

"One more extension is for Royal Caribbean's COVID-19 Assistance program, which covers passengers if anyone tests positive within 14 days of the cruise, or while onboard. Vaccinated guests and children not yet eligible to be vaccinated who are sailing on or before April 30th, 2022 will have the following COVID-19 Assistance at no extra charge:

 

100% cruise fare refund for you, and your Traveling Party, if any of you tests positive for COVID-19 within 14 days prior to the cruise or at the boarding terminal.

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund if your cruise is cut short for reasons related to COVID-19.

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Royal Caribbean will cover the costs of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard, any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you and your Traveling Party."

 

They've also extended the 30 day final payment for this period. They have shareholders and creditors but dont seem too worried? As a customer it just seems like bloody mindedness on P&O's part.

 

Regarding "rebuilding" combine this stubborn refusal to offer comfort, with the dreadful IT, failure to be able to speak to anyone on the telephone, lack of response to emails etc (see the numerous posts on other sections of the P&O board from people saying never again) and it looks like a recipe for disaster and that's even before press etc get a whiff of what's going on.

 

And for what?

 

Hopefully they will extend that to Celebrity for our cruise next July. Perhaps the first and others will follow.

[terrierjohn]

5 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Hopefully they will extend that to Celebrity for our cruise next July. Perhaps the first and others will follow.

Oh why did P&O Princess not stick with their RCI Prince charming,instead they threw its engagement ring  back in its face and ran off to Gretna with that Carnival rogue Ariston.

[watsonbeau]

The Royal Caribbean is up to April 22

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/gbr/en/faq/questions/if-i-test-positive-for-sars-cov-2-what-is-your-refund-policy-and-costs-covered

 

shame Cunard and P&O not doing same.

 

 

[Swanseasailor]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:23 PM, Megabear2 said:

Surely in the UK they have always insisted on insurance?  They must know what cover these policies offer?  I was directed to Holiday Extras as offering all the cover I required.  This is the "recommended" insurer. It is, as most who have taken quotes from them, extremely expensive compared with others in the market.  It is not in any way different from other cruise policies and does not offer cover for any form of quarantine. P&O etc may not be aware but Holiday Extras until July this year were underwritten by TIF group, a company with a very chequered history on paying claims. Any policies bought under this underwriter were enormously expensive and many bought the annual one as it was recommended.  In July this year TIF pulled out of the market and Holiday Extras changed underwriter to Great Lakes, this different policy is cheaper, probably providing better cover but still not the scenario that has occurred. Not much use to those who had already paid upfront.

 

Today I had notification from RCI as follows:

 

"One more extension is for Royal Caribbean's COVID-19 Assistance program, which covers passengers if anyone tests positive within 14 days of the cruise, or while onboard. Vaccinated guests and children not yet eligible to be vaccinated who are sailing on or before April 30th, 2022 will have the following COVID-19 Assistance at no extra charge:

 

100% cruise fare refund for you, and your Traveling Party, if any of you tests positive for COVID-19 within 14 days prior to the cruise or at the boarding terminal.

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund if your cruise is cut short for reasons related to COVID-19.

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Royal Caribbean will cover the costs of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard, any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you and your Traveling Party."

 

They've also extended the 30 day final payment for this period. They have shareholders and creditors but dont seem too worried? As a customer it just seems like bloody mindedness on P&O's part.

 

Regarding "rebuilding" combine this stubborn refusal to offer comfort, with the dreadful IT, failure to be able to speak to anyone on the telephone, lack of response to emails etc (see the numerous posts on other sections of the P&O board from people saying never again) and it looks like a recipe for disaster and that's even before press etc get a whiff of what's going on.

 

And for what?

 

Hi Megabear2 P and O seem to have gone to ground and this subject page slowly falling down the list. I Have still not had a reply but still hopeful.

[free from work]

43 minutes ago, Swanseasailor said:

Hi Megabear2 P and O seem to have gone to ground and this subject page slowly falling down the list. I Have still not had a reply but still hopeful.

Hi

 

I emailed Natasha last week about the timescale for reply as we leave for our cruise 22/11. She reiterated the 28 day ABTA limit so I'm not sure we will have an answer before we sail. 

 

Jim 

[JustOxford]

Megabear2 Just thought you would like know we should have been on Ventura now( you may recall), but the lack of insurance cover as you know was a 'bridge to far for us' Ah well will now wait until May 2022. Thanks again for all your hard work.

[Guest]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:47 PM, zap99 said:

Hopefully they will extend that to Celebrity for our cruise next July. Perhaps the first and others will follow.

 

On 10/30/2021 at 3:23 PM, Megabear2 said:

Surely in the UK they have always insisted on insurance?  They must know what cover these policies offer?  I was directed to Holiday Extras as offering all the cover I required.  This is the "recommended" insurer. It is, as most who have taken quotes from them, extremely expensive compared with others in the market.  It is not in any way different from other cruise policies and does not offer cover for any form of quarantine. P&O etc may not be aware but Holiday Extras until July this year were underwritten by TIF group, a company with a very chequered history on paying claims. Any policies bought under this underwriter were enormously expensive and many bought the annual one as it was recommended.  In July this year TIF pulled out of the market and Holiday Extras changed underwriter to Great Lakes, this different policy is cheaper, probably providing better cover but still not the scenario that has occurred. Not much use to those who had already paid upfront.

 

Today I had notification from RCI as follows:

 

"One more extension is for Royal Caribbean's COVID-19 Assistance program, which covers passengers if anyone tests positive within 14 days of the cruise, or while onboard. Vaccinated guests and children not yet eligible to be vaccinated who are sailing on or before April 30th, 2022 will have the following COVID-19 Assistance at no extra charge:

 

100% cruise fare refund for you, and your Traveling Party, if any of you tests positive for COVID-19 within 14 days prior to the cruise or at the boarding terminal.

 

Pro-rated cruise fare refund if your cruise is cut short for reasons related to COVID-19.

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 during the cruise, Royal Caribbean will cover the costs of COVID-19 related medical treatment onboard, any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you and your Traveling Party."

 

They've also extended the 30 day final payment for this period. They have shareholders and creditors but dont seem too worried? As a customer it just seems like bloody mindedness on P&O's part.

 

Regarding "rebuilding" combine this stubborn refusal to offer comfort, with the dreadful IT, failure to be able to speak to anyone on the telephone, lack of response to emails etc (see the numerous posts on other sections of the P&O board from people saying never again) and it looks like a recipe for disaster and that's even before press etc get a whiff of what's going on.

 

And for what?

 

We rang Celebrity up to book a cruise, and they were so informative about all covid regs on the ship, what happens if you get it (they will only remove you from the ship- at their expense- if they feel you require medical attention that can’t be provided on the ship). They also knew all about the tests required, what was needed for each port etc. They really put our minds at ease and our cruise advisor has said to call/email her at any time and she will be happy to assist with any query we have. It’s like chalk and cheese after speaking to P&O. 
 

We can also cancel our cruise up to 48 hours before departing. (I think this ends at some point next year). 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Guest

[Megabear2]

I will be chasing P&O/Cunard tomorrow as it is a week since they last replied.  I will ask if they are any nearer a definitive answer on their protocols etc.  I also intend to ask if the statement is true that commercial interests are being put in front of passengers.

 

Sorry that there is no further news I can add. For those sailing soon, I assume you could once again press them - no harm in a little nudge.  I'm currently in a better position as I have been offered a FOC cancellation for myself and my family if I want it.  Not sure how they'll react if I say I want all of my cruises cancelled though.

 

I have, to be honest, stayed away from the board a bit as it was getting a bit too personal about how much time I was spending on the subject.  I am still here plugging away but just not reporting unless there's anything to say.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Glitterati said:

 

We rang Celebrity up to book a cruise, and they were so informative about all covid regs on the ship, what happens if you get it (they will only remove you from the ship- at their expense- if they feel you require medical attention that can’t be provided on the ship). They also knew all about the tests required, what was needed for each port etc. They really put our minds at ease and our cruise advisor has said to call/email her at any time and she will be happy to assist with any query we have. It’s like chalk and cheese after speaking to P&O. 
 

We can also cancel our cruise up to 48 hours before departing. (I think this ends at some point next year). 

It ends in April at the moment. Originally meant to end 31.12.2021 but just extended to 30.04.22.  Celebrity and RCI  do update their website and also send notifications to travel agents.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Megabear2

[emam]

On 11/1/2021 at 10:46 AM, Swanseasailor said:

Hi Megabear2 P and O seem to have gone to ground and this subject page slowly falling down the list. I Have still not had a reply but still hopeful.

 

I'm also still waiting for my reply, but there's still a while to the 28 day deadline. 

[zap99]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:40 PM, Glitterati said:

 

We rang Celebrity up to book a cruise, and they were so informative about all covid regs on the ship, what happens if you get it (they will only remove you from the ship- at their expense- if they feel you require medical attention that can’t be provided on the ship). They also knew all about the tests required, what was needed for each port etc. They really put our minds at ease and our cruise advisor has said to call/email her at any time and she will be happy to assist with any query we have. It’s like chalk and cheese after speaking to P&O. 
 

We can also cancel our cruise up to 48 hours before departing. (I think this ends at some point next year). 

We have had cruises to Alaska with Celebrity cancelled the last 2 years. Money was credited back in a few days. Very impressive.

[lindyloo22]

Today I have received email regarding my concerns re insurance, doesn’t really tell me anything.

it just reads currently being reviewed and investigated with the relevant management, and accept our apologies for the delay. It’s the second email I have had from them both really saying the same thing.

[watsonbeau]

Reply today from Emily - so still being looked at!

 

Re: SLT Testing positive whilst onboard - Cunard/Queen Mary 2 - Pre Cruise - CAS-550456-Z5W1

 

Dear Xxxx, 

 

Further to our recent acknowledgement, please be assured that given the concerns raised your correspondence is currently being reviewed and investigated with the relevant management. Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in issuing a reply and you have our assurances that a response will be sent in due course. 

 

Kind regards 

 

Emily 

 

Email: executive.correspondence@carnivalukgroup.com 

Web: www.pocruises.com | www.cunard.com 

Carnival House, 100 Harbour Parade, Southampton SO15 1ST 

 

 

[emam]

I have also just gotten the same reply. At least it shows they looking into it and haven't just forgotten about  it.

 

Further to our recent acknowledgement, please be assured that given the concerns raised your correspondence is currently being reviewed and investigated with the relevant management. Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in issuing a reply and you have our assurances that a response will be sent in due course.

[free from work]

1 hour ago, emam said:

I have also just gotten the same reply. At least it shows they looking into it and haven't just forgotten about  it.

 

Further to our recent acknowledgement, please be assured that given the concerns raised your correspondence is currently being reviewed and investigated with the relevant management. Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in issuing a reply and you have our assurances that a response will be sent in due course.

Same reply here too. 

 

Seems like Emily has been doing a lot of cutting and pasting! Just a standard holding letter to stop people phoning in to see what's happening. 

 

Jim 

[PEMCO007]

I have also received generic message from Emily today x

 

[Slugsta]

Yes, I've had the same message from Emily today too.

[Swanseasailor]

I had same reply from Emily, stall and delay letter but within 28 day limit.

Further to our recent acknowledgement, please be assured that given the concerns raised your correspondence is currently being reviewed and investigated with the relevant management. Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in issuing a reply and you have our assurances that a response will be sent in due course.

Kind regards

Emily

Email: executive.correspondence@carnivalukgroup.com
Web: www.pocruises.com | www.cunard.com
Carnival House, 100 Harbour Parade, Southampton SO15 1ST