It's never too early to plan for your next PC...or is it?

[pierces]

This January, my "new" PC will be two years old. My plan is to start collecting hardware starting in January 2023 and recent developments in available and upcoming hardware has me back in study hall learning what will provide the best bang for the buck. My PC usage hasn't really changed with the new machine and since I prefer doing photo stuff on the desktop and am still working from home, I don't see myself moving to a laptop. That means I will be building my own machine again and as before, I'm less concerned with saving money (though it's likely) than getting a machine optimized for how I use it. By the time 1/2023 rolls around, my i7-9700K processor will be four generations removed from the Gen 13 Raptor Lake Intel family and AMD will probably have their Zen4 CPUs rolling out. DDR5 memory should be fairly common by then and Lord only knows where graphics will be. PCIE 5.0 may be too new to the consumer market in the Q1 2023 timeframe as PCIE 4.0 was early last year, but demand for high-speed storage may speed up adoption in consumer machines. My current configuration with solid-state drives for boot and new file processing and a fast disc drive for long term storage is working out very well. Unless SSDs plummet in price per gigabyte, I will likely go with a similar configuration. The 64GB of RAM I put in the current machine was overkill and I will likely drop back to 32GB unless memory gets super cheap or future Lightroom and Photoshop releases get really hungry. The mid-range graphics card is handling my needs well and since I'm not likely to take up competitive gaming anytime soon, I will probably use whatever passes for mid-range in 2023. An 8K monitor upgrade might stress that plan but I'm still pretty happy with my current setup and it will probably suffice for another few years unless 8K gets cheap and common enough (after all, I do like shiny new tech). Liquid cooling is still by far my preference. At no time since I started using this machine has the CPU temperature wandered even into the yellow zone. I current have an all-in-one kit, but I'm tempted to dip my toes into a custom cooling solution with cooling blocks for the CPU and graphics card, fancy fittings and and hard piping. Or, maybe not. Then again, that stuff looks really look cool...

 

Anyway, I'll post on this thread occasionally with info on the new stuff as I stumble across it and start building my shopping list. 

 

As before, questions are welcome and I don't consider any time spent researching an answer wasted.

 

Happy computing!

 

 

Dave

 

 

[pierces]

I'm pretty sure I have actually made a decision on a component! It's a little early but the information  may be useful if anybody is contemplating purchasing a PC in the next 3-4 months. If you already know or just don't care what the possible benefits of faster RAM are, you may want to stop here. 🙂

 

DDR5 SDRAM memory. Or, Double Data Rate Fifth Generation Synchronous Dynamic Random-access Memory if you are writing a term paper with a high word count requirement.

 

What is it and why is it cooler than current DDR4 memory?

 

The what:

SDRAM memory modules contain the RAM you see when you look at the spec of a computer or in the system info (8GB, 16GB, etc.). RAM is where all the little bits of data that the processor uses to do its technical magic are temporarily stored so they can be accessed quickly. When an application is opened, all the files needed to make it run are loaded into RAM from where it is stored on the drive. This allows the processor to access them about 100,000x faster than if it had to read and write each command directly to and from the storage. That speed difference becomes very evident when a computer has insufficient memory to load the whole program and you sit and wait, watching the little hard drive light light up solid as each command takes what seems like forever as the processor swaps parts of the program it isn't using out of the RAM to the disk and grabs the bits that it needs for the next step. This doesn't happen very often in modern computers since RAM is now cheap enough that manufacturers generally provide enough for most computers to handle the needs of modern software and operating systems. Most. For those of us that use burly photo editing programs like Photoshop or video editors, more and faster RAM can make a noticeable difference in how long it takes to load a program, apply a filter or render a video. 

 

The why:

Along with Intel's Alder Lake 12th-gen processors and Z690 motherboard chipset, DDR5 just started hitting the stores and it should begin appearing in systems and motherboards from the major manufacturers by next spring since the Z690 chipset can be configured to support either DDR4 or DDR5 (but not interchangeably on the same board, as far as I know). While the write-ups and testing have only just begun, initial info looks very promising with a performance jump of about 30% to 40% over DDR4 memory due to an increase in clock speed and bandwidth. While you can buy DDR4 memory with clock speeds forced to 4000mhz and above, it is expensive and not supported by most systems since the DDR4 spec's clock speed is 1600mhz to 3200mhz. DDR5's specced clock speed starts at 4800mhz and goes up to 8400mhz. Improvements in how the memory handles requests will increase the bandwidth and (theoretically) allow DDR5 to pass twice the amount of data per second than DDR4. RAM is also fussy about stable power and the DDR5 spec is helping this by including voltage regulation on the module. It will also operate at a lower voltage and consume less power. It's only about 10% lower which is not significant on a desktop, but every little bit counts when your laptop is running on battery power. The maximum RAM capacity per module has been increased from 32GB to 128GB with 16GB being the norm. This will mostly affect servers and the highest-end workstations but one factor will affect everybody. The increased density of the actual memory chips on the module will cause them to run hotter, so those fancy heat sinks you see on the forced clock rate DDR4 modules will likely become the new normal. By late 2022, DDR5 may not be quite mainstream, but it should have matured enough for prices to stabilize and the 13th-gen processors and associated chipsets due around then will fully support and work well with it.  

 

Note that the improvement in memory speed is only one factor in improving the overall speed of a computer. A faster processor, faster reading and writing to storage and faster graphics processing all need to be addressed to see a significant difference. Over the next year, I'll continue to keep poking the tech world until I check all the boxes on my list and can start collecting the pieces to the puzzle. Finding the best bang for the buck in a computer isn't like finding the Holy Grail, but at least I won't dissolve into dust like the guy in the Indiana Jones movie if I get it a little wrong. 😉

 

 

First check mark on the upgrade list: 32GB of DDR5 memory. ✔️

 

 

Dave

 

[pierces]

The official decision Checklist:

 

🔲 Case     

🔲 Motherboard

🔲 Processor

✅ Memory - 32GB of DDR5 memory

🔲 Graphics card

🔲 Power supply

🔲 Boot drive

🔲 Storage

🔲 Cooling

 

 

Dave

Edited October 29, 2021 by pierces

[pierces]

No decision point for the SSD drive yet, but there is some news. The first Enterprise PCIe 5.0 drives are starting to appear as testable units and the bar has been raised quite a bit. The shiny new 3500mb/s units in my current machine were quickly surpassed by the now-mainstream PCIe 4.0 drives that routinely post 7000mb/s read times. The initial 5.0 drives are doubling that. That's really fast. The latest z690 chipset for the new Gen 12 Intel CPUs includes support for PCIe 5.0 even though there really aren't products available to take advantage of the increase in bandwidth. Despite that, some motherboards are showing up with backwards-compatible PCIe 5.0 slots for what I suppose is a pinch of future-proofing mixed with a dash of marketing. PCIe 5.0 drives will probably start showing up for consumer use by the middle of next year and hopefully price and availability will stabilize by Decision Day. If not, it would probably wouldn't be that noticeable to have a 5.0 boot and programs drive and a 4.0 working drive while sticking with a big spinny drive for long term storage. Settling for doubling data read speeds on my boot and working drives with mature 4.0 drives because PCIe 5.0 drives are rare and expensive falls into the First-World Problems category and won't result in any lost sleep. The fact that next-gen stuff is showing up a bit faster than expected does bode well for mid-2022 availability and that's a good thing. If it means the shiny new bits will be cheaper and more common when the time comes to start shopping at the beginning of 2023, that's a better thing. 🙂

 

Happy Post-processing!

 

 

Dave

[pierces]

A major decision point in planning for building a new PC. 

 

Build complete or upgrade?

 

Build complete has the benefit of gifting the old PC to a family member or having a secondary machine for some other purpose.

 

Upgrade saves money by reusing parts like coolers, cases or power supplies that won't have impactful new tech and typically have a long useful lifespan. Even drives and a good motherboard can be moved forward if it hasn't been too long since the last upgrade. Unfortunately, this round will include a new generation of CPU with a different socket and a two-generation jump in memory and solid-state drives which will require a new motherboard with a new chipset.

 

Reusing the (really nice) case is possible since the motherboard mounting points won't change and the cooler has a $10 mount upgrade available for the new socket. Reusing both would save about $400. The power supply is another $100 or so but is in question due to possible connection changes with the new PCIe 5.0 video card and motherboard. 

 

I'm leaning strongly towards a complete build since the savings are only about 20% of the projected total and having a second workstation could be useful with a college-age grandchild living with us for another couple of years. 

 

Back to waiting for all the shiny new bits to hit Amazon and Newegg.

 

 

Dave 

 

 

[tommui987]

Dave:

 

Though I am a (devoted) Mac user, your 

PC building is always interesting reading.

 

I still use my iMac for my photos 

 

[tommui987]

It is an old iMac late 2018 but has 33gb memory.

 

Been looking to replace my wife’s iMac which with the new chip allegedly doesn’t need more than 8gb of memory

[Docker123]

 

The university has provided me with a new laptop (perks of being emeritus). At least it has to specs to read and process up to date raw files. I7, 16gb, 512 ssd.

 

Lenova, L13, Yoga Gen2.

 

Had to return to the 8 year old clunker to when it went to hospital because it is a piece of poo. Icons flashing away, overheating, refusing to talk to the docking station, etc.

[pierces]

Back in the muscle car days of the late '60s, aftermarket and modified factory parts were widely available and specialized "speed shops" were in seemingly every town. These "boutique" parts stores were where you could buy anything from a chrome air cleaner to a ready-to-race big-block Chevy or Dodge Hemi engine, depending on how strong your desire was for horsepower was and, of course, your budget. "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?" was a phrase that originated in that era and while it still applies to racing, it can be applied to almost any human endeavor that involves technology with measurable performance. I find it applies nicely to the rapidly evolving tech in computers. The cost difference between an 11-second and a 10-second quarter mile time could easily be 50% for a relatively small increase in performance and the computer world is much the same. 

 

While planning out the next build, I am looking at charts of relative processor performance and found that not much has changed in the cost/performance ratios in the last 20 years or so. What triggered this post was the fact that the new King of the Hill in mainstream processors (ignoring super-server Xeons and bazillion-core AMD Threadrippers) is the i9-12900K at a recently lowered price of $589. The runner-up was the i7-12700K at $409. The benchmarks used to determine the ratings was a mix that relied heavily on gaming with some generic workload tests thrown in. This is probably a pretty fair comparison for my purposes since games are probably the most processor-intensive activity the average person will ever use a PC for and loading games and rendering the video compares well to photo and video editing.  Here's the deal...the price of the i7 is 70% of the i9 but in performance on otherwise comparable machines, the i7 never scored less then 91% of the i9 and in some tests was as high as 99%. This is very close to what I found while researching the last build and leads me to believe the same will be true of the 13th generation Raptor Lake CPUs that I plan to use for the new PC. Maybe if I were a competitive gamer and the few extra frames per second on Call of Duty made the difference between winning and losing a paying competition, the extra $200 for a few percent increase in performance would be worth it. But I'm not. And it isn't. I'm a big fan of bang-for-the-buck.

 

I'll be looking at the difference between DDR4 and DDR5 RAM performance when the tech matures a little. Right now, it's pretty much a tie. PCIe 5.0 SSDs look like they might be worth a reasonable premium but until they become mainstream, pricing is going to be prohibitive. Graphic cards have wider ranges of performance between tiers than CPUs, but the cost difference between the mid-tiers and the top can be huge. We'll see what the next generation brings.

 

Plenty of time to decide. 

 

 

Dave

[pierces]

I just stumbled across a sensible name used to differentiate Solid State Drives from the older "hard" drives. 

 

Rotational Storage.

 

Thank you, English Language! I can now retire "Spinny Disk" from my technical lexicon.

 

 

Dave

[pierces]

I took a deeper look into DDR4 vs. DDR5 memory on the current generation of CPUs and motherboard chipsets and it looks more and more like maturity pays off. (I tell my kids that all the time.) Without boring references to chip ranks and other crap I had to research to find out what they were talking about, the current differences are very minor with the only distinct difference being potential capacity per unit. Since the tests I found are mostly run on 32GB or 64GB PCs and I've already decided that I won't need 2TB of memory, I am holding off the decision until the 13th-gen CPUs show up to see if the DDR5 support has matured. It may turn out that the bang-for-the-buck winner may be DDR4 if the performance gap doesn't widen significantly in the next generation.

 

PCIe 5.0 SSD storage is shaping up to be a generational leap in speed with 13,000mb/s read speeds already reached in prototypes (vs. 3,500mb/s in my current PCIe 3.0 SSDs). With releases not due until later this year, the pricing and maturity may not level out for a planned early '23 build. Like DDR5, the new drives may make the very fast PCIe 4.0 drives (7,000mb/s) the winners in price/performance shopping. 

 

With the somewhat shadowy next generation of graphics cards on the horizon, I still have more questions than answers regarding the next PC. With the current machine humming along smoothly, I may push the next projected build back to let the big generational changes smooth out and see if the supply chain fills up a little. 

 

All these decisions. That's why I love In-N-Out...great burgers from a very limited menu. 

 

Happy Computing!

 

Dave

Edited April 7, 2022 by pierces

[DAF7065]

I scanned thru this quickly as a lot is a bit above my head.  I have an iMac circa 2011.  My Honda CRV is 2012 but I would have an older car had I not spent a few years in China.   

 

Now I know this device is getting old.   And I know I want a camera for travel once that starts and I end my working life.  With that I want to enjoy using the camera / computer in tandem to enjoy the photos.   

 

I like the iMac but at work it is all PC so I am a bit ambidextrous.   Once work is done I am leaning to  to drop the PC / Windows.  I guess my only issue with Mac is cost.   But I do like that all our phones, TV and other devices and semi-ease to working with them at this point.      

 

Anyways the questions are and not limited to:

I am obviously at / near the end of life for my computer.  From above most likely past the "End of Life". That said I am sure I can keep it working for some time.   So what is the advice?    I hate to buy , should I be waiting for 6 months...end of year...beginning  of 2023 puts me in a better position.   

 

But then, I still have a year of work.   So I am really not going to be able to "get into my new home computer" till end of 2023 early 2024.   So why not wait till then???

 

Anyways.  I found this discussion and thought my questions would fit so hopefully some advice but not over the top.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

 

  

[pierces]

14 hours ago, DAF7065 said:

Anyways.  I found this discussion and thought my questions would fit so hopefully some advice but not over the top.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

 

  

 

I am most assuredly not a Macophile but I try to keep up with the advances across the board relating to computer tech. Based on the specs of the new units powered by the new M2 chip, Unless you are a serious video editor or are rendering heavy animation sequences, I would suggest an M2 chip powered Macbook Air with a minimum of 16GB of RAM (or Macbook Pro if you do heavy photo editing with large files), a dock and a separate monitor/mouse/keyboard setup. Additional storage would be easy with the laptop's support for fast connections to external drives. There are many non-Apple options for the peripherals that would work very well and keep the cost down. One advantage of the laptop/peripheral combo is the ability to undock the machine and take it along if need be. 

 

Just my 2¢....or maybe 4¢ adjusted for inflation.

 

Dave

[Host Bonjour]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:45 AM, pierces said:

A major decision point in planning for building a new PC. 

 

Build complete or upgrade?

 

Build complete has the benefit of gifting the old PC to a family member or having a secondary machine for some other purpose.

 

Upgrade saves money by reusing parts like coolers, cases or power supplies that won't have impactful new tech and typically have a long useful lifespan. Even drives and a good motherboard can be moved forward if it hasn't been too long since the last upgrade. Unfortunately, this round will include a new generation of CPU with a different socket and a two-generation jump in memory and solid-state drives which will require a new motherboard with a new chipset.

 

Reusing the (really nice) case is possible since the motherboard mounting points won't change and the cooler has a $10 mount upgrade available for the new socket. Reusing both would save about $400. The power supply is another $100 or so but is in question due to possible connection changes with the new PCIe 5.0 video card and motherboard. 

 

I'm leaning strongly towards a complete build since the savings are only about 20% of the projected total and having a second workstation could be useful with a college-age grandchild living with us for another couple of years. 

 

Back to waiting for all the shiny new bits to hit Amazon and Newegg.

 

 

Dave 

 

 

 

A designer colleague builds her own and even though the office got her a new Mac Studio which is impressive, she still defaults back to her own personal built set up. With all the graphics & photo intensive work being done (especially exporting big packaged files for print) she says her own set up is still the best.

 

Definitely likes the Mac Studio though, which improves the speed of the workflow considerably, however.

 

I'm all Apple too, won't ever go back to the PC system again. The cost for Apple (and inability to customize/open up and tinker, for the most part) is problematic, but the intuitiveness (UI/UX) and design cannot be beat. PC has made strides, but can't come close. 

 

On 3/9/2022 at 1:13 PM, pierces said:

e i7 is 70% of the i9 but in performance on otherwise comparable machines, the i7 never scored less then 91%

 

That's why I went with a MacBook that had an i7, and like, whatever the number of cores were, plus ram specs alongside a similar machine with an i9, for me, I wasn't making the jump. No gaming or intensive videos so it seemed to meet the mark and spending for the i9 didn't seem worthwhile for the needs. 

 

Good luck and have fun with your build Dave!

 

 

[pierces]

22 hours ago, Host Bonjour said:

 

I'm all Apple too, won't ever go back to the PC system again. The cost for Apple (and inability to customize/open up and tinker, for the most part) is problematic, but the intuitiveness (UI/UX) and design cannot be beat. PC has made strides, but can't come close. 

 

 

Why am I a diehard PC/Windows user? I started working with DOS in the '80s and moved to Windows along with my employers and later, my customers. Here's some history.

 

I did freelance consulting for small and medium businesses for several years and found that the UI that you use the most and are used to is the best one. Users with a Mac at home and new employees fresh out of a Mac-equipped college complained about Windows (3.0, 3.1, 98, Millennium, XP, & 7...I even complained about the Millennium edition), but people who had been using Windows for a while seldom complained. The complaints from the Macophiles died out as they got used to their daily routine. Most computer users have a fairly limited numbers of tasks that they perform regularly and quickly become adept at performing them regardless of the UI. I personally find the Apple UI counterintuitive and very limiting to work with when the sort of issues one runs into as a consultant came up. Fortunately, I didn't run into more than a few Apple issues since the market share in businesses was about 2%-3% back in the day and I never supported a customer that was into video production or graphic design where Macs were dominant. I would be asked by small business owners if they should bite the bullet and switch to Macs despite the cost because they are supposed to be easier to use and immune to virus attacks. I usually suggested that they buy one and let their people try it out. This reinforced my theory that the best OS is the one you are used to since the Windows users were usually as dissatisfied with the Mac OS as the home Mac users were with Windows. Along with a warning about using a proprietary networking protocol like AppleTalk (dating myself), I also gave them a link to Norton or McAfee to research Mac anti-virus software. When they asked why there was anti-virus software for the invulnerable Mac OS, I would explain that viruses were out there for the Mac OS but were rare because (at the time) only about 2% of businesses used it in the US (much lower in the rest of the world) and virus writers were like any "business" and catered to the largest target audience. There was also the issue of businesses that used industry-specific software that simply didn't have a Mac version available. 

 

Based on a few decades in computer tech and vast improvements on both sides, I find my computer advice for people is pretty much the same as my camera advice: This is what I like and why it works best for me, but everybody should use what they like and what works best for them. Much like cameras, the reputable computer hardware manufacturers all produce great products, and you will likely be happy no matter what you end up with. 

 

Do I have disdain for Mac users? No. Not at all. I just keep my distance because, you know, cooties... 

🙂

 

Dave 

 

[pierces]

Looks like things are starting to move a little on the next-gen hardware. 

 

Intel has announced that it is releasing the 13th generation Raptor Lake CPUs before the end of 2022. This is several months earlier than originally planned. Can't imagine a less than stellar earnings report last quarter had anything to do with that. Anyway, the initial leaks regarding performance show the same pattern as the last couple of generations with the i9 outperforming the i7 series by a smaller percentage than the price difference. I am still in the camp of "good enough" as far as that extra 5% of oomph is concerned and will set my sights on the unlocked i7-13000K or KF (no integrated video).

 

Nvidia will release at least some of its new 4000 series graphics cards by year's end and while the specs seem to point to raging speed improvements, the power requirements are rumored to be substantial. This is an area where good enough really pays off since the last-gen units plummet in price when the shiny new stuff shows up and all the gamers start pounding on the "buy it now" button. AMD's Radeon RX7000 cards should pop up in late 2020 as well and they are supposed to be significantly faster than the last generation with claims of a 250% increase leaking into the rumor channels. I haven't been a Radeon fan, but if this materializes and the price, power requirements and heat generation aren't off the charts, I may have to take a closer look. I still don't need the fastest card, but the lower end usually comes with less memory and bunches of graphics memory comes in handy with big image files.

 

DDR5 memory seems to be maturing. Tests with the 13th-gen Intel processors are sowing as much as a 20% speed improvement over DDR4. Not earthshaking but with the prices dropping pretty steadily, a moderate premium in price over DDR4 may make the future-proofing of going with DDR5 memory worth it. 

 

PCIe 5.0 SSD drives are stupefyingly fast. The only hurdle is that they are the last next-gen tech likely to be available. 4th quarter availability seems possible, but pricing may be prohibitive like the Gen 4 drives were when they appeared a couple of years ago. Gen 4 drives are priced competitively now and since they are twice as fast as Gen 3, buying a card to mount Gen4 drives in a Gen5 motherboard until prices level out may be an option if the Gen 5 drives are still overpriced when I decide to pull the trigger on the next build. 

 

Liquid cooling is still a definite. The running temp of the current machine is ridiculous.  No going back.

 

PCIe 5.0 motherboards will likely require new connections, so a new power supply seems to be a given even if I wasn't doing a completely new build.

 

Rotational storage drives for archived storage are still a question mark. A big installed drive or investing in a networked storage unit are options being considered. High-volume SSD storage is still way too expensive since I seem to have picked the wrong numbers last night.

 

Still a ways to go, but the tech world is moving along and next year should prove interesting.

 

Dave

[Host Bonjour]

On 7/26/2022 at 3:22 PM, pierces said:

This is what I like and why it works best for me, but everybody should use what they like and what works best for them. Much like cameras, the reputable computer hardware manufacturers all produce great products, and you will likely be happy no matter what you end up with. 

 

Always makes sense and practical. Plus, for a long time, most of what you mentioned about software, rate of adoption, and yes the costs (most of which is inflated, somewhat by design, which stinks) were enough to keep all but the die-hards away.

 

But, now the software is made for everything in mac, apple has introduced more price-friendly products (relatively) and perhaps in part thanks to the iPhone and iPad or Apple Watch, people are realizing it makes sense to sync everything up (it's easier!). 

 

Yes, there are some viruses that can get through, but it's not common and they generally do less damage. Apple firewall and security settings are a great front line before any 3rd party protection is added. Most websites have SSL and users accessing websites with sensitive info can set up extra levels of security when signing in to prevent unauthorized access. 

 

Plus, an Apple now will easily convert windows files into Mac files, so if someone were to switch (one did) it's effortless and smooth. One also did end up partitioning the Mac hard drive to become a "windows" drive because a particular software was not (baffling for this brand of software, which is mostly available in mac) available Mac. Easiest thing to do and toggle back and forth between the "two" Apple and Windows hard drives on one MacBook Pro. 

 

I'm not sure why a lot of businesses still use PC... costs I think? If you have to buy a lot of machines and servers, it probably saves a lot of money. Apple just isn't cheap. There are costly PCs. Who knows.

 

But when I have been switched over to Windows world on my hard drive, I have been gloomy. I don't miss having to go through all the extra steps, the way things are organized, it feels cluttered and reminds me of the days in the computer lab in college and migraines. My father was an electrical engineer and tech geek, who back then said Macs were wayyyy better. The computer lab only had two or three, but the programs I needed weren't loaded on them and I think only Computer Science majors were using them anyway. I'm not sure how my father knew, but since he was doing cool research in the 60s and telling me about barcodes, sonic waves and fiberoptics way before any of that made a lot of sense, and we had the first big microwave oven before anyone else, well, he was wrong on pretty much most of life, but not this stuff. 

 

Yet again, I come back to the beginning and say, if a system is working for someone and there's a flow, an ease, a familiarity, then it's all you need. Just read up on security and invest in great protection. And watch Mr Robot. (It's all I'm saying, ok it's fiction–sort of, but even so...). They all lug around MacBooks.

 

Keep us posted Dave, happy building 🙂

 

 

[pierces]

Don't you love the way "leaks" appear when new products are imminent? 

 

The end of September will apparently be the big day for the Gen 13 Raptor Lake CPUs from Intel according to a pre-announcement....I mean, "leak".

 

The Ryzen 7000 series announced this week and will be released at about the same time. 

 

New motherboards with new chipsets will likely appear along with the above CPUs, though some current boards that support the Alder Lake Gen 12 CPU claim they will support the new chip which uses the same LGA1700 socket. 

 

Nvidia 4000-series cards are rumored for October.

 

PCIe Gen5 drives are showing up at testing labs and are incredibly fast. Rumored to be pricey when the start to appear by year's end, so checking Gen 4 pricing may be a reasonable alternative.

 

 

Looks like springtime 2023 may be a good time to plant the seeds of a new computer!

 

Then again, maybe this spry fellow I'm using now will last another year and we'll take a nice cruise...or buy a nice lens!

 

Dave

 

 

 

[dwc13]

Early adopters pay a premium and often act as the beta tester/quality control folks for the manufacturer. So many thanks to all who have purchased the Nvidia 4090 Ada Lovelace graphics cards. Keep an eye on that 12v power adapter, lol.

[pierces]

33 minutes ago, dwc13 said:

Early adopters pay a premium and often act as the beta tester/quality control folks for the manufacturer. So many thanks to all who have purchased the Nvidia 4090 Ada Lovelace graphics cards. Keep an eye on that 12v power adapter, lol.

 

They don't call it "bleeding edge" technology for no reason...

 

😉 

 

Dave

[dwc13]

9 hours ago, pierces said:

 

They don't call it "burning edge" technology for no reason...

 

😉

 

Dave

 

I fixed it for you. 😁

[dwc13]

RX 7900 XTX for $999 MSP and RX 7900 XT at $899 MSP for the reference model. 

 

Got my attention with the pricing! 

[pierces]

Poking around the net looking for the latest updates on the new tech. Some progress on decisions, but still a lot of ifs and wait-and-sees. 

 

 

DDR5 memory is starting to go mainstream but still only shows a so-so improvement over DDR4 in most applications. The price premium is fading fast and the DDR5 implementations in the new motherboards with the latest chipsets are getting better. If nothing else, it is futureproofing at a reasonable cost.

 

PCIe 5.0 SSD drives are appearing at the enterprise level, but consumer units are still mostly vaporware with some theoretically appearing before year's end. The published specs for the various manufacturer's prototypes show a (really) significant increase in read and write speeds. Price and heat issues will determine my personal adoption. PCIe 4.0 drives are mature now with speeds approaching the theoretical limit of the 4.0 specification at twice the speed of my current 3.0 drives and prices are now reasonable.  That means the availability/affordability of 5.0 drives isn't a showstopper for next year. 

 

The rotational storage drive will be upgraded to a 12GB unit in case the A7rV materializes with its monstrous image files.

 

I have decided to stay with the ASUS Strix line of motherboards. They are very stable, and the new Z790-E has all the bells and whistles I need. It has a PCIe 5.0 M.2 drive slot and four 4.0 slots which gives me plenty of options to add a 5.0 drive at a later date if they aren't ready for prime time when it's time to build. It is a DDR5 board, so that sort of cements my DDR4/DDR5 decision. The 790 chipset supports DDR5 natively, so performance with the new memory should be as good as is available. It has a forest of USB ports on the back plate with most of them being the fast v3.2 type. Onboard networking is great with a 2.5Gb/s Ethernet port and the latest WiFi 6E wireless both of which are faster than I need. Too fast is better than too slow, so not wasted. 

 

The CPU choice was pretty easy as the price/performance ratio between i7 and i9 is about the same as when I built the current machine. The i7-13700K or KF is over 50% faster than my current CPU and only about 5% slower than the current i9 while costing 30% less. Bang-for-the-buck champion!

 

All-in-one liquid cooler for the CPU will likely stay the same. It works so well that it's not worth shopping for anything new. There is a slight temptation to put in a custom cooling setup with the glowing, colored coolant in the transparent pipes because they look cool (edit: just noticed the unintended pun), but the temptation remains small since my PC isn't visible from my desk.  

 

The open case I'm using now will likely be re-used. It looks great and the wall mount suits my needs well. There is a newer model with upgraded front ports (USB-C), but the number of ports on the motherboard back plate make this unnecessary. Besides, they no longer offer a red one.

 

Graphics card is a sticking point. The RTX2070 Super I have now works great with my photo software and since I really don't do any gaming on the PC, I really don't need the latest and greatest $1500 monster card. The new Intel Arc series of discreet graphics cards show promise, but they aren't mature yet and driver issues are almost guaranteed. I'm leaning toward the latest Nvidia 4000 series but if they stay expensive and keep melting power connections, I may just stick with what I have. Easy to add a card later if things change.

 

Glad I don't have to decide right now!

 

Dave

  

[dwc13]

There were some great prices on Black Friday for 2TB NVME drives.  

 

Zero chance I would go with an Intel dGPU because Arc is a 1st gen product, but more importantly Intel has a well-chronicled history of sh*tyy graphics drivers. 

 

Are you upgrading your power supply? ROG mb, Intel KF cpu, Nvidia 4xxx gpu and AIO cooling suggests overclocking at some point. 

 

[pierces]

6 hours ago, dwc13 said:

There were some great prices on Black Friday for 2TB NVME drives.  

 

Zero chance I would go with an Intel dGPU because Arc is a 1st gen product, but more importantly Intel has a well-chronicled history of sh*tyy graphics drivers. 

 

Are you upgrading your power supply? ROG mb, Intel KF cpu, Nvidia 4xxx gpu and AIO cooling suggests overclocking at some point. 

 

 

I currently have a 750W Seasonic Platinum 80+ and will likely choose something similar with a Platinum rating.

 

This build won't be an upgrade, but a replacement. When I say I will stick with a component like the AIO cooler, I mean I will buy another of the same unit or something specced the same. The only firm exception will be the Thermaltake P3 case since it is perfect for my setup. After christening the new PC, I will pick up a decent mid-tower and migrate the current components to it for hand-me-down or re-purposing. If I stick with the current graphics card, I will pick up something to put into the old unit or rely on the integrated graphics, depending on what it will be used for.

 

The AIO isn't really for overclocking. I do set my RAM to just under its rated speed rather than the base spec but I don't bother bumping the CPU. I chose the ROG motherboard on the premise that if it has all the solid, high-spec components needed to survive aggressive overclocking, it would be super stable at normal settings. So far, this has proved to be a good plan. The cooling is an environmental consideration since the computer resides in a "server room" which is a fancy name for the walk-in storage closet behind the wall where my desk is. It is fairly roomy but has minimal airflow and gets rather warm in the summer months. It would be nice to mount the case somewhere for people to see its considerable futuristic beauty, but Wonderful Wife gets the final say on room decor and a fairly quiet, red-glowing art installation didn't make the cut.  

 

Building a new PC is like shopping for a new car...except I can afford a fast one and it won't kill me if it crashes! 🙂

 

 

Dave