Who just got an extention of final payment due?

[shepherd really]

I just received notice that final payment was extended to 30 days prior to embarkation on my Jan. 8th cruise from Buenos Aires to Santiago.

 

Did anyone else on other upcoming South America cruises get the same notice?  

 

My hope is O is trying to avoid a mess of refunds and FCC's if things go south at the last minute but since my crystal ball is broken I have nothing to base that on.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by shepherd really

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

I just received notice that final payment was extended to 30 days prior to embarkation on my Jan. 8th cruise from Buenos Aires to Santiago.

 

Did anyone else on other upcoming South America cruises get the same notice?  

 

My hope is O is trying to avoid a mess of refunds and FCC's if things go south at the last minute but since my crystal ball is broken I have nothing to base that on.

 

 

If you do a search of the O forums’ threads here on CC, you’ll come to understand that O often will delay final payment when conditions (such as the uncertainty of ever-changing Covid restrictions) threaten the integrity of the original itinerary. Of course, as a very responsible cruise line, they do this to avoid extra work, passenger angst, etc. 

BTW, in recent months (with an apparent hope/expectation that the cruise industry will return to some semblance of normalcy by 12/31/22), O has stopped issuing FCCs -rather opting for 100% refund of fare and optional purchases for any cruises they may cancel. This, in part, will help to accommodate folks with existing FCCs (primarily due to “Covid cancels” in 2020-21) find cabin availability before the now-set-in-stone existing FCC “cruise by” deadline of 12/31/22.

[pinotlover]

We are on the next cruise Santiago back to BA. Just talked with our TA and she has received no notification of any such delay in final payment for our cruise. In fact, Oceania has been taking proactive steps in finalizing the cruise. Our FiF dat remains 60 prior to cruise as was established months ago.

[Jockocruiser]

Well, I do find this disconcerting.
 

As Sandy  knows, I too am on the 28Jan departure from Chile.   As the final isn’t due until 28Nov, we too assume final pay is due NLT the invoiced detailed date, and we assumed that at this point the departure was certain.

 

But so too did the folks booked on the 08Jan sailing.  So to be advised that O moved the 08Jan sailing final date forward by a month, and now to be advised that that Final pay is due only 30 days from the sailing certainly creates an increased level of uncertainty.   That level of uncertainty wasn’t present prior to that change….and with only ~10 days before the scheduled final payment date!

 

Imagine what this does to the planning process of booking independent airline, hotel, pre-departure tour reservations, and SCL to ship transfers!  I’m certainly not booking non-refundable reservations with this bit of news. 

With the recent announcements that Chile and Argentina are opening effective 01Nov, why wouldn’t there be a corresponding reason or explanation from O regarding the delay in final payment?  
 

I was feeling very confident of the Oceania  S.A. sailings for the early 2022 season.  This has certainly thrown me for a loop tonight!

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

51 minutes ago, Jockocruiser said:

Well, I do find this disconcerting.
 

As Sandy  knows, I too am on the 28Jan departure from Chile.   As the final isn’t due until 28Nov, we too assume final pay is due NLT the invoiced detailed date, and we assumed that at this point the departure was certain.

 

But so too did the folks booked on the 08Jan sailing.  So to be advised that O moved the 08Jan sailing final date forward by a month, and now to be advised that that Final pay is due only 30 days from the sailing certainly creates an increased level of uncertainty.   That level of uncertainty wasn’t present prior to that change….and with only ~10 days before the scheduled final payment date!

 

Imagine what this does to the planning process of booking independent airline, hotel, pre-departure tour reservations, and SCL to ship transfers!  I’m certainly not booking non-refundable reservations with this bit of news. 

With the recent announcements that Chile and Argentina are opening effective 01Nov, why wouldn’t there be a corresponding reason or explanation from O regarding the delay in final payment?  
 

I was feeling very confident of the Oceania  S.A. sailings for the early 2022 season.  This has certainly thrown me for a loop tonight!

 

Why ever would you book non-refundable (or non-transferable [at least in the case of air tix]) pre/post cruise arrangements given the current travel environment?

[pinotlover]

25 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Why ever would you book non-refundable (or non-transferable [at least in the case of air tix]) pre/post cruise arrangements given the current travel environment?

Just one example. If we book our Precruise Marriott hotel with no cancellation, the nightly rate is $160/ night. Fully flexible rate with 24 hours cancellation is $250/night. Multiple that difference by 4 nights and that’s enticing.

 

I’m working with several tour operators and they all believe things open up in Chile, Argentina, Etc on 1 November etc for the Balkans. If true, I don’t understand this move by Oceania. My BC tickets are booked now by me for this trip. Even my TA is confident our cruise is going and she talks to Oceania almost daily!

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

If we book our Precruise Marriott hotel with no cancellation, the nightly rate is $160/ night. Fully flexible rate with 24 hours cancellation is $250/night. 

That is an unusual example for Marriott. I just looked up the Marriott Marquis Times Square following our May-July cruise. See the pic for the price difference between prepaid non-refundable and cancel 24 hrs ahead for seniors/AAA. It’s closer to the norm for Marriott at approx 3% more (in this case $16/night.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Or you can book the refundable Marriott rate now, and then cancel and rebook the cheaper rate close to the cruise when it seems really certain.  Oceania doesn't have a crystal ball to predict that the SA countries will do between now and your cruise.

[Flatbush Flyer]

12 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Or you can book the refundable Marriott rate now, and then cancel and rebook the cheaper rate close to the cruise when it seems really certain.  Oceania doesn't have a crystal ball to predict that the SA countries will do between now and your cruise.

That won’t always work to your advantage since reservation modifications may be subject to the current rates. And if the hotel availability is lower closer to the cruise, the rate (either prepaid or refundable) may have skyrocketed.

That said, we usually book refundable hotel rates as soon as we think we’re going. We keep an eye on the price and call for the new rate if it lowers. More often then not, any price for the same hotel closer to embarkation day (at major embarkation ports) will be higher. AND, booking refundable allows you to look at other properties for better prices all the way up to your trip.

[Host Jazzbeau]

7 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

That won’t always work to your advantage since reservation modifications may be subject to the current rates. And if the hotel availability is lower closer to the cruise, the rate (either prepaid or refundable) may have skyrocketed.

That said, we usually book refundable hotel rates as soon as we think we’re going. We keep an eye on the price and call for the new rate if it lowers. More often then not, any price for the same hotel closer to embarkation day (at major embarkation ports) will be higher. AND, booking refundable allows you to look at other properties for better prices all the way up to your trip.

Yes, that's what I do also.  It helps that Hilton doesn't charge a huge delta for refundable rates.  The Marriott example given was way out of line to what I ever recall seeing.  [Another reason never to book non-refundable rates is that I often realize that I had the wrong date, or the wrong room type, or even – just tonight – the wrong hotel in a chain!  ]

[Flatbush Flyer]

13 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Yes, that's what I do also.  It helps that Hilton doesn't charge a huge delta for refundable rates.  The Marriott example given was way out of line to what I ever recall seeing.  [Another reason never to book non-refundable rates is that I often realize that I had the wrong date, or the wrong room type, or even – just tonight – the wrong hotel in a chain!  ]

So true on “easy to make an initial error.”

[Homerody]

8 hours ago, Jockocruiser said:

Well, I do find this disconcerting.
 

As Sandy  knows, I too am on the 28Jan departure from Chile.   As the final isn’t due until 28Nov, we too assume final pay is due NLT the invoiced detailed date, and we assumed that at this point the departure was certain.

 

But so too did the folks booked on the 08Jan sailing.  So to be advised that O moved the 08Jan sailing final date forward by a month, and now to be advised that that Final pay is due only 30 days from the sailing certainly creates an increased level of uncertainty.   That level of uncertainty wasn’t present prior to that change….and with only ~10 days before the scheduled final payment date!

 

Imagine what this does to the planning process of booking independent airline, hotel, pre-departure tour reservations, and SCL to ship transfers!  I’m certainly not booking non-refundable reservations with this bit of news. 

With the recent announcements that Chile and Argentina are opening effective 01Nov, why wouldn’t there be a corresponding reason or explanation from O regarding the delay in final payment?  
 

I was feeling very confident of the Oceania  S.A. sailings for the early 2022 season.  This has certainly thrown me for a loop tonight!

 

Well said.  Your post nails it! (and describes my situation and feelings very well)

 

Comparing cabin availability on the 8 Jan sailing - there is a good number of cabins available as compared to yesterday - in various categories.

 

I'm hanging on for a while longer, but concurrently planning a plan B - which will end up to be land based. 

[Homerody]

6 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I’m working with several tour operators and they all believe things open up in Chile, Argentina, Etc on 1 November etc for the Balkans. If true, I don’t understand this move by Oceania. My BC tickets are booked now by me for this trip. ....

I am finding the same thing with tour operators based in Chile and Argentina that I am working with for pre and post 8 Jan sailing arrangements.

 

My  guess based on limited news information I saw over the past few days is that Chile is the critical link in the itinerary.  Some news reports this week about COVID rates rising a bit and resulting response.  And as a side point I have been watching potential Eater Island reopening news - a local non-binding vote (majority of population sat out the vote) result was to keep  tourists out for now.

 

 But then again, I don't know what I don't know.  And I do not want to be a nattering nabob of negativism. So back to trip planning till the next monkey wrench smacks me in the forehead. 

[Homerody]

18 hours ago, shepherd really said:

I just received notice that final payment was extended to 30 days prior to embarkation on my Jan. 8th cruise from Buenos Aires to Santiago.

 

Did anyone else on other upcoming South America cruises get the same notice?  

 

My hope is O is trying to avoid a mess of refunds and FCC's if things go south at the last minute but since my crystal ball is broken I have nothing to base that on.

 

 

I appreciate @shepherd really asking the question because I was thinking  about too.  Here is my thought process following the Marina in Nov 2021 - Feb 2022.  Any input from CC community will help shed a bit of light on the plight of 8 Jan Marina sailing cruisers that I and many others find ourselves in.

 

Based on the O document updated on 21 October, we can assume (safely?) that Marina will be heading to Miami on 19 Nov.

 

After that we have the Marina cruises scheduled as follows:

 

1 Dec Departing Miami

19 Dec Departing Lima

8 Jan 2022 Departing Buenos Aires

28 Jan Departing Santiago

 

I am assuming (with all the involved risk) that FP dates for Dec sailings have passed and O has collected the money.  Yesterday, O moved 8 Jan sailing FP date to Dec, 30 days before sailing.  And the 28 Jan sailing's FP date has not been changes as reported by @pinotlover.

 

Additionally, all the above cruises are still showing availability.

 

So in my cancellation addled brain, I am guessing that O will make a decision about if Marina will head to SA in the second half of November.   I will be watching for any FP date change for the 28 Jan sailing and/or cancellation notices for either 1 Dec and/or 19 Dec sailings.

 

Just my simple minded Captain Obvious approach to the uncertainty and how to go about mitigating it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shepherd really]

Homerody,

 

You pretty much duplicated my thought process.  We should be able to glean something from Oceania's actions between now and Dec 1 but I wish they would be more forthcoming.  They may not know yet what the next two months will hold but they certainly know what contingencies they are planning for and should share them with us. 

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, shepherd really said:

Homerody,

 

You pretty much duplicated my thought process.  We should be able to glean something from Oceania's actions between now and Dec 1 but I wish they would be more forthcoming.  They may not know yet what the next two months will hold but they certainly know what contingencies they are planning for and should share them with us. 

 

 

No - they should not “share contingencies” at what is “way to soon” in the bigger picture. I’ve explained this in detail several times in various threads regarding “why won’t O say something (even though there is nothing to say).”

 

So, once again (in a brief version): 

Why does O only communicate when it has something relatively concrete to report?:

1. COVID uncertainty

2. Multiple government/agencies issues

3. Spare passengers further disappointment should start/stop ports need change yet again AFTER many passengers have foolishly made non-refund/change air/hotel et al. plans.

4. Maintain an efficacious workload in Miami

 

Step back and look at the big picture: If O has to cancel, it will refund your paid costs for whatever you’ve purchased from them. It’s always been that way and 2020/21 showed that it still is. In fact, O has even suspended their use of FCCs and are doing only 100% refunds of what $ you’ve given them.

 

Certainly, our angst over uncertainty is warranted. But, to suggest that O engage in what amounts to “intermittent reinforcement” (or “false hope”) is a fruitless exercise.

[Homerody]

@Flatbush Flyer as usual you make a compelling cogent argument as to why more information is not available or forthcoming.

 

That is why I'm assuming I will hear nothing official from O till they are ready or reaffirmation of FP date. However, I will pounce on what the tea leaves read based on what happens to the December cruises.  Maybe that will be jumping the gun or inferring the wrong conclusion about the 8 January sailing, but at some point I gotta know when to fold'em (as Kenny Rogers would say.)

 

But I would be remiss in not pointing out that you lost me with "foolish".  Just because you and I agree that one should buy refundable or changeable air and other travel arrangements in a pandemic, does not mean other folks are foolish.  I think the discussion here about hotels demonstrates that there are differing views and circumstances on this.

 

As a side point, I am fortunate to have  AA in C - totally refundable - for a mere $100 premium for the cruise.  But that is yet another tangent I go off on.

 

As I read (and weep) various posts about this latest FP change I am reminded of the old adage if it happens to me it is a catastrophe, if it happens to someone else it is a problem.  So if it is my cruise the tendency will be to be myopic.  If it is somebody else's  cruise - I am going to point out the big picture, as big as a billboard!

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

43 minutes ago, Homerody said:

@Flatbush Flyer as usual you make a compelling cogent argument as to why more information is not available or forthcoming.

 

That is why I'm assuming I will hear nothing official from O till they are ready or reaffirmation of FP date. However, I will pounce on what the tea leaves read based on what happens to the December cruises.  Maybe that will be jumping the gun or inferring the wrong conclusion about the 8 January sailing, but at some point I gotta know when to fold'em (as Kenny Rogers would say.)

 

But I would be remiss in not pointing out that you lost me with "foolish".  Just because you and I agree that one should buy refundable or changeable air and other travel arrangements in a pandemic, does not mean other folks are foolish.  I think the discussion here about hotels demonstrates that there are differing views and circumstances on this.

 

As a side point, I am fortunate to have  AA in C - totally refundable - for a mere $100 premium for the cruise.  But that is yet another tangent I go off on.

 

As I read (and weep) various posts about this latest FP change I am reminded of the old adage if it happens to me it is a catastrophe, if it happens to someone else it is a problem.  So if it is my cruise the tendency will be to be myopic.  If it is somebody else's  cruise - I am going to point out the big picture, as big as a billboard!

 

 

Perhaps “foolish” was a bit harsh and I certainly apologize for any offense to someone trying to save on some travel costs. That said, it’s when I think of some cost-cutting suggestions I read here on CC, my first reaction is “pennywise and pound foolish.” 

[lj77346]

The change in FP date for the Jan. 8, 2022 Marina cruise may have nothing to do with Argentina or Chile, but rather with Oceania's ability to comply with the provisions of the IMO Polar Code (a part of SOLAS).  In order for a ship to operate in seas below a latitude of 60 degrees south, a ship is required to have a Polar Certification.  In addition, there are stringent requirements relative to "life-saving appliances and arrangements" (Chapter 8 of the IMO Polar Code) that likely would be difficult to meet for a passenger ship not specifically designed for expedition type cruises to Antarctica.

 

So, if the IMO Polar Code is the reason for the change in the FP date for the Jan. 8 Marina cruise, other Marina cruises probably would not be affected as they do not sail-by Antarctica.  This may not be the reason for the change in FP date, but it is plausible as it would be tough to have a cruise to Antarctica if you can't sail past 60 degrees south latitude.  (I'm just reporting on information that is in the IMO Polar Code and am not trying to be negative, so please don't kill the messenger.)

[Hlitner]

We are booked on the 18 night Marina cruise departing Miami on Dec 1.  Since this is the first Marina cruise heading to SA it might be a good bellwether.   As somebody posted, final payments for this cruise have already been made and there has been no indication from O about any changes to the itinerary.  I called "O" on Thursday to check on test requirements and the rep did a quick check and said he saw no current indication of any changes.  O is reaching a point of no return on this cruise since they need to do the usual logistical things (such as shipping supplies ahead to some ports) not to mention ticketing those who used O Air (we handled our own air using miles).  

 

I have been somewhat skeptical about any of these SA cruises until this past week.  But we are now inside a month when folks will need to make their way to Florida and O is not wavering on their information that this cruise will happen.  Although we are only going to be aboard as far as Lima, there are others that have booked some of the following segments (in SA) who would have already made their required final payments.  We are keeping our fingers crossed that the Marina will make these voyages.  Having had 5 cruises cancelled because of COVID we are tired of cancellations.

 

Hank

[Homerody]

@Hlitner I feel and share your pain about multiple cancellations. The wait and uncertainty are agonizing. 

 

Hope we all get to sail on our respective cruises.

 

Best wishes and safe travels on your 1 Dec voyage.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 hours ago, lj77346 said:

The change in FP date for the Jan. 8, 2022 Marina cruise may have nothing to do with Argentina or Chile, but rather with Oceania's ability to comply with the provisions of the IMO Polar Code (a part of SOLAS).  In order for a ship to operate in seas below a latitude of 60 degrees south, a ship is required to have a Polar Certification.  In addition, there are stringent requirements relative to "life-saving appliances and arrangements" (Chapter 8 of the IMO Polar Code) that likely would be difficult to meet for a passenger ship not specifically designed for expedition type cruises to Antarctica.

 

So, if the IMO Polar Code is the reason for the change in the FP date for the Jan. 8 Marina cruise, other Marina cruises probably would not be affected as they do not sail-by Antarctica.  This may not be the reason for the change in FP date, but it is plausible as it would be tough to have a cruise to Antarctica if you can't sail past 60 degrees south latitude.  (I'm just reporting on information that is in the IMO Polar Code and am not trying to be negative, so please don't kill the messenger.)

I seem to remember that all sorts of ships that had Polar Certification in prior years (including Marina) may not meet the newest requirements.

[luvtravel]

We too are booked on the Jan.28 leg of the cruise that sails from Chili.  We just saw on the state department website that Buenos Aires is opening on Nov. 1 but Chili still shows that a 5 day quarantine period is in effect. That’s definitely concerning. We had planned on arriving in Santiago the day before via Oceania purchased air.   We understand too the ship is about a 90 minute drive from Santiago.  Such difficult logistics especially for the cruise lines.   

 

 

 

 

[Homerody]

31 minutes ago, luvtravel said:

We too are booked on the Jan.28 leg of the cruise that sails from Chili.  We just saw on the state department website that Buenos Aires is opening on Nov. 1 but Chili still shows that a 5 day quarantine period is in effect. That’s definitely concerning. We had planned on arriving in Santiago the day before via Oceania purchased air.   We understand too the ship is about a 90 minute drive from Santiago.  Such difficult logistics especially for the cruise lines.   

 

 

 

 

Chile has new non quarantine requirements from 1 Nov. 

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, lj77346 said:

The change in FP date for the Jan. 8, 2022 Marina cruise may have nothing to do with Argentina or Chile, but rather with Oceania's ability to comply with the provisions of the IMO Polar Code (a part of SOLAS).  In order for a ship to operate in seas below a latitude of 60 degrees south, a ship is required to have a Polar Certification.  In addition, there are stringent requirements relative to "life-saving appliances and arrangements" (Chapter 8 of the IMO Polar Code) that likely would be difficult to meet for a passenger ship not specifically designed for expedition type cruises to Antarctica.

 

So, if the IMO Polar Code is the reason for the change in the FP date for the Jan. 8 Marina cruise, other Marina cruises probably would not be affected as they do not sail-by Antarctica.  This may not be the reason for the change in FP date, but it is plausible as it would be tough to have a cruise to Antarctica if you can't sail past 60 degrees south latitude.  (I'm just reporting on information that is in the IMO Polar Code and am not trying to be negative, so please don't kill the messenger.)

If you are correct then woe with O!  The IMO Polar Code changes were adopted (with plenty of publicity and notice to all shipping/cruise lines) several years ago.  The phase-in of various provisions was intended to give cruise lines and other travel providers several years to make plans or bring their vessels up to compliance.  In fact some cruise lines such as Seabourn have actually had time to build new vessels that comply with the most stringent requirements  that would allow them to actual land folks ashore (using Zodiac-like craft).    I would also mention that O has previously extended FP dates on multiple cruises (including our Dec 1 cruise) that obviously had nothing to do with the Polar Code....unless that applies to ships cruising near the equator :).

 

Hank