Westerdam Carnival Itinerary What Are They Think!

[patval]

I apologize if some think I am over reacting over the Westerdam Nov and Dec 07 schedule.

 

I looked up the e-brochure and found Westerdam is going to be doing 3 and 4 day Bahamas Cruise.

 

I thought companies like Carnival do cruises like this not Holland and also why a new ship.

 

I am an Economist and it would not make sense to use a new ship for 3 and 4 day cruises. You would use older ships like RCCL uses Soverign of the Seas and Carnivals Sensation, Holiday, and Celebration.

 

Paul

 

Thank you for reading my soap box!:eek::eek:

[Krazy Kruizers]

I haven't seen those schedules yet.

 

But as the years go by, HAL is beginning to look and act like Carnival in amny ways.

 

Carnival's influence is showing - thus the larger ships to be out in a couple of years.

 

Get them on and get them off!

[jhannah]

Maybe I'm missing something ... but I don't see a problem/issue here. The shorter sailings are a niche that's perfect for many who have never cruised before or who have limited time off work. Seems like HAL is simply trying to get some of this business. A short cruise for a first-timer will likely bring them back for longer voyages.

[djallar]

Maybe I'm missing something ... but I don't see a problem/issue here. The shorter sailings are a niche that's perfect for many who have never cruised before or who have limited time off work. Seems like HAL is simply trying to get some of this business. A short cruise for a first-timer will likely bring them back for longer voyages.

Agreed! Let's just hope they keep the standards high.

[herb]

I apologize if some think I am over reacting over the Westerdam Nov and Dec 07 schedule.

 

I looked up the e-brochure and found Westerdam is going to be doing 3 and 4 day Bahamas Cruise.

 

I thought companies like Carnival do cruises like this not Holland and also why a new ship.

 

I am an Economist and it would not make sense to use a new ship for 3 and 4 day cruises. You would use older ships like RCCL uses Soverign of the Seas and Carnivals Sensation, Holiday, and Celebration.

 

Paul

 

Thank you for reading my soap box!:eek::eek:

 

I'm sure some people might find it hard to believe this, but there are some people who are dignified and have class but do not have 365 days a year to go on vacation.

Since their work schedule might not allow them more than a quick 3 or 4 day get-a-way why do you automatically assume that they're a "carnival" type passenger? And why shouldn't anyone who can only get away for a few days be denied a cruise on a newer ship?

[Atomica]

The Westerdam is doing a couple of three and four day sailings to the Bahamas - a handful of sailings at most. Why? For a lot of people, particularily those living near enough to the port, it makes for a nice getaway. And if they haven't sailed HAL before, it's a great opportunity to try it, and a new ship.

 

I love the coastals they do here out of Vancouver - they make for a great little getaway, and so I think having a few shorter voyages to the Bahamas might attract more passengers to this wonderful cruise line!

[Grumpy1]

I am an Economist and it would not make sense to use a new ship for 3 and 4 day cruises. You would use older ships like RCCL uses Soverign of the Seas and Carnivals Sensation, Holiday, and Celebration.

 

We took a three night cruise on the Carnival Fascination. Fortunately, I was not expecting great things, and I had sailed other ships on other lines. The ship was an absolute mess! I talked to a few first time cruisers that were pretty much convinced that what they saw would be the norm on any ship, and were not inclined to ever book a cruise again. Fortunately, I had a frame of reference and knew that Fascination was not the norm.

 

It would appear that there is a big market for these short cruises, and there are probably quite a few of the passengers are new passengers that want to find out if cruising is for them. Perhaps HAL wants to introduce the new cruiser to a proper cruise on a ship that would be equivalent to what the passenger would be booking for a longer cruise. If that is the thinking, it may be worth giving up some short term revenue to generate more long term. What would appear to not make sense may, in fact, make perfect sense if marketed properly.

[kryos]

Maybe I'm missing something ... but I don't see a problem/issue here. The shorter sailings are a niche that's perfect for many who have never cruised before or who have limited time off work. Seems like HAL is simply trying to get some of this business. A short cruise for a first-timer will likely bring them back for longer voyages.

HAL is targeting a younger market with their Vista-class ships. They want families with children and young couples. Three and four day itineraries are perfect for this market.

 

Many people have never cruised and would not consider a cruise vacation because they are afraid they would not like it. A three or four-day itinerary is perfect for them since it allows them to "test the waters" without committing a whole week or more of their time to a vacation they may not enjoy. These shorter itineraries also allow HAL to possibly garner a new customer base as those people try cruising and like it ... and go on to book longer trips.

 

I think you're gonna see HAL running more and more short cruises ... especially on the larger ships. Lots of people don't have the time for long cruises ... and a nice long weekend getaway is perfect for them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Captain Crunch]

I'm sure some people might find it hard to believe this, but there are some people who are dignified and have class but do not have 365 days a year to go on vacation.

Since their work schedule might not allow them more than a quick 3 or 4 day get-a-way why do you automatically assume that they're a "carnival" type passenger? And why shouldn't anyone who can only get away for a few days be denied a cruise on a newer ship?

 

Thank You, HAL is not only for the retired community, but the active and working community who enjoy a more sedate and classic cruise.

[kryos]

I love the coastals they do here out of Vancouver - they make for a great little getaway, and so I think having a few shorter voyages to the Bahamas might attract more passengers to this wonderful cruise line!

I don't know ... maybe it's me ... but I wouldn't even consider doing a three-day cruise. It would hardly be worth the trouble of packing and getting on the boat. I won't even do a seven-day cruise ... not if I had to fly to get to the boat. Not worth it, in my opinion. Better to just schedule a b2b in that situation and make the trip worthwhile.

 

But, obviously a lot of people feel differently.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[SueSea]

I thought companies like Carnival do cruises like this not Holland and also why a new ship.

 

To your first point: Celebrity, a line like HAL, offers cruises of less than 7 days.

 

To your second point: Celebrity's shorter cruises are all on their oldest ships. Now that HAL has decided to enter the shorter cruise market, Celebrity will be their primary competitor. Doesn't it seem possible, if not likely, that HAL is putting a new ship on short cruises to entice cruisers away from Celebrity?

[herb]

We took a three night cruise on the Carnival Fascination. Fortunately, I was not expecting great things, and I had sailed other ships on other lines. The ship was an absolute mess!

 

How very sad to hear this about the Fascination. We took a 7 night Southern Caribbean cruise from San Juan aboard the Fascination in 1999 and although we didn't much care for the crowd aboard the ship, the ship itself was spotless. How things change in a short amount of time :(

[patval]

I am sorry if I offended anyone but it is my opinion of what Hal is doing. I understand that some people have not much time away from the daily grind.

 

In my opinion Hal is a refined line and target demographic (again my opinion I have a right to have one no offensive) is middle age adults and income level of middle to upper middle class.

 

Also Celebrity shorter cruises are on the older ships (Century).

 

Paul

 

Sorry!

[fridayeyes]

While I don't think I'll be cruising on the W-dam (due to geography), I do the short coastal repos every year, sometimes both ways. Often, I cruise solo, and often my little get-away is a Mother's Day present. For me, the short duration is perfect. It's enough time to unwind and enjoy and not so long that childcare or work arrangements are complicated.

 

As for demographics (and demographics only), I am a 30-something married mother with an advanced degree. My husband is a programmer. We cruise both with and without our 6 yr old son. We can, and have, cruised for up to 11 days, and we are hoping for a 14 day voyage within the next year or so. We are pro-dress code, pro-classical music and pro-good food. We are anti-loud, anti-crowded, anti-rowdy and and anti-flashy. For me, it is a niche market I'm glad HAL is filling. I do not like being limited to only Carnival or RCI for short breaks. To put it simply, we prefer HAL, with Celebrity as our 'backup'. As an analogy, The Ritz-Carlton and the Four Seasons retain their integrity whether I stay for 4 days or 20. A Mercedes is a Mercedes whether I rent it for a night or a month (but really I drive a Prius). I don't think cruise length *by itself* is something to worry about.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[djallar]

HAL is targeting a younger market with their Vista-class ships. They want families with children and young couples. Three and four day itineraries are perfect for this market.

 

Many people have never cruised and would not consider a cruise vacation because they are afraid they would not like it. A three or four-day itinerary is perfect for them since it allows them to "test the waters" without committing a whole week or more of their time to a vacation they may not enjoy. These shorter itineraries also allow HAL to possibly garner a new customer base as those people try cruising and like it ... and go on to book longer trips.

 

I think you're gonna see HAL running more and more short cruises ... especially on the larger ships. Lots of people don't have the time for long cruises ... and a nice long weekend getaway is perfect for them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

This also allows families to try cruising at a lower initial cost. The brochure prices are still about $200 per day, but fewer days means lower initial cost. A family of four can do a 4-day in a VB Quad for $2,338. The same for a 7 day is $3,548

[Cruisin Kay D]

I AGREE with Kyros!! 3 nt cruise NOT for us. YOu barely get on, unpack & then have to repack!!! YUK!!

 

Seems to me that HAL would be smarter to offer 4 & 5 nt cruises if they want to offer something shorter. In 14 days (2 wks) HAL could offer 2 5-nt & 1 4-nt. That's what Celebrity Zenith is doing!

 

I introduced a young professional lady & her teacher friend to Celebrity Zenith for their 1st cruise. These 2 ladies are in their late 20s, not into drinking & carousing (so Carnival was out) and like good food & nice surroundings -- they would be the type people that HAL would want to attract.

[herb]

I won't even do a seven-day cruise ... not if I had to fly to get to the boat. Not worth it, in my opinion. Better to just schedule a b2b in that situation and make the trip worthwhile.

 

But, obviously a lot of people feel differently.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

my boss, for one :D

[funforsun]

Maybe I'm missing something ... but I don't see a problem/issue here. The shorter sailings are a niche that's perfect for many who have never cruised before or who have limited time off work. Seems like HAL is simply trying to get some of this business. A short cruise for a first-timer will likely bring them back for longer voyages.

 

These cruises are a wonderful way to get introduced to a new cruise line and a new class of vessel. I am doing just such a cruise on the west coast to see if HAL is what I would like in a cruise line for the longer voyages. If I were on the east coast, I would definitly take advantage of them there. Plus, its not a bad long weekend and a quick get-away for a change of pace.

[wander]

HAL, Princess and others have had 3-4 night cruises from Seattle each spring for the past few years. They fill a gap from when the ships get to Seattle and then do the Alaska thing. RCCL and NCL also do them. Some do them in the fall again. They tend to be relatively inexpensive on a per day basis and at least most of them are full, full, full! Very popular for a weekend get away and for folks wanting to check out cruising.

 

We have gone on several to check out various ships and to have a fun weekend with friends. We easily drive to the dock, park, board, have fun and then drive home.

 

That said, they are simply to have fun and/or spend a weekend with friends and/or have a look see at different ships. While I imagine we will go on some in the future, our cruising style is itineraries of over 30 days almost exclusively, and we are fortunate to be able to take them. The three night versus 30+ night cruises are entirely different experiences.

[Windrunner I]

I am sorry if I offended anyone but it is my opinion of what Hal is doing. I understand that some people have not much time away from the daily grind.

 

In my opinion Hal is a refined line and target demographic (again my opinion I have a right to have one no offensive) is middle age adults and income level of middle to upper middle class.

 

Also Celebrity shorter cruises are on the older ships (Century).

 

Paul

 

Sorry!

 

To thye point that a few others have made, this is a way for HAL (known for 7 day and longer cruises) to entice new passengers and people new to cruising.

 

These sailings also occur during a time of year that airlift is extremely problematic AND during a time of year (a week before Christmas) that many are not looking to take a week's vacation. Yet, a 3 or 4 day break might be just what the proverbial doctor ordered.

 

It's only 4 out of what, 400+ sailings in a year? HAL is hardly becoming a short-cruise cruise line. You'd think the sky is falling the way some react.

[Grumpy1]

I am sorry if I offended anyone but it is my opinion of what Hal is doing. I understand that some people have not much time away from the daily grind.

 

In my opinion Hal is a refined line and target demographic (again my opinion I have a right to have one no offensive) is middle age adults and income level of middle to upper middle class.

 

Also Celebrity shorter cruises are on the older ships (Century).

 

Paul

 

Sorry!

I don't think you offended anyone, Paul. You had a valid question based on your observations and your discipline as an economist. We're just encouraging you to think outside the purely economic box a little bit:D OK?

[Copper10-8]

RCI and, yes, Carnival have had 3 and 4-day cruises out of L.A. (and now Long Beach) for years. It's a quick getaway and/or a long weekend and gets a lot of folks started and hooked on cruising (it did just that for us in 1991 on the old Viking Serenade). I'd say go for it HAL and bring one of those beauties to the west coast to compete in the short market with RCI and Carnival.

[fridayeyes]

Copper,

 

Hear, Hear! I'm on the Veendam in May (and darn happy to be there) going San Diego to Vancouver. The cost for the 5 day cruise is just under $500 for an inside, plus train to SD and airfare home. If I were willing to do Carnival, I could go out of Long Beach (drive to), 4 day round trip for $389 outside and save the airfare. If Carnival had a competitor like HAL, I'd be there AT LEAST twice a year, probably more, even at greater cost.

 

Cheers,

 

Friday

[patval]

I understand it is only a couple of sailings but my point was why use a new ship for a sailing like this. It going to take a certain amount of years for Hal to recoup the cost of building the Westerdam so I would of thought you would do 7 plus day cruises to generate enogh sales to pay off the ship and not get eaten up by interest rates which are still on the rise and a 300 million build cost.

 

If you live near the ship then if Hal's idea to appeal to the local mkt is a great idea but living in the midwest with a flight to FLL or MIA running about 350-500 per person is not worth it to me for a 3 day cruise. Also the Bahamas are not all that great of a destination except for Half Moon Cay and Turks.

 

Thank you Grump about thinking outside the box being an economist we taught to be in the box.

 

Paul

[the2ofus]

Today, my trainer at the YMCA, asked me what my ideal vacation would be. I told her it would be a HAL cruise and the longer the better. She said she feared seasickness and wasn't sure if being on a ship for a long time would be something she'd like. I described what I like about cruising on HAL and urged her to try it.

 

This family is a perfect fit for the HAL 3-4 day Bahamas cruises. Both parents work more than one job, and Dad travels in his job. They have teen-age kids, one in college. It is hard to get the whole family freed up for a week, or longer, vacation all at the same time. How great if they could take a quick cruise get-away at a reasonable cost, as a HAL 3-4 day cruise would be.

 

This is a family that would not only become loyal HAL fans, but because of their contacts in the course of their work, would spread the word.