Key West dropping from March 19 Apex Sailing

[D C]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:31 PM, deliver42 said:

Who would want to cruise to KW now? You're met with angry people at the pier, and a flotilly surrounding the ship, like what happened to the Dawn.

I would be more than happy to stop! 
The cruise ships are actually being met by loads of cheerful people welcoming them to the city, while protestors are over on the pier at Mallory Square.  Happy people don't make good headlines though. 

I would certainly be careful to spend money only in cruise ship friendly businesses (as I also will when I'm in KW by land in the near future)

[nocl]

33 minutes ago, D C said:

I would be more than happy to stop! 
The cruise ships are actually being met by loads of cheerful people welcoming them to the city, while protestors are over on the pier at Mallory Square.  Happy people don't make good headlines though. 

I would certainly be careful to spend money only in cruise ship friendly businesses (as I also will when I'm in KW by land in the near future)

Actually they are being met by some people on the privately owned Pier B (would not qualify them as loads).  From the pictures I saw maybe 30-40 on Pier B, around 300 over on Mallory Square (the closest they can get to pier B) along with another 100 or so out on about 50 boats protesting.

[rmalbers]

KW is just too small an area for the huge cruise ships they are building these days, I think anyone who has witnessed it has seen the issues,  it sure didn't take me long.   I think it was just one of those things that happened over time with the increasingly large cruise ships showing up.   I do think once they figure out the number of people they can deal with at a time, they will open it up maybe a little more.  It's a much more fun place to do a land based trip anyway. 

[micheleg]

Key West dropped from our April 16th sailing as well.  Replaced with Bimini.  No email from Celebrity regarding the change.  This doesn't surprise me in the least given the news out of Key West that we get in Miami. 

 

Bimini Beach Club included at no extra fee for Virgin passengers, going to be interesting to see what they offer us and at how much.  No excursions up for Bimini at this point.  Probably just going to be another ship day for us.  We'll see.

[CruisinCrow]

Key West is still showing as a stop on our February 17 Millennium cruise but I've been researching Bimini, just in case.  We've been to Key West many times by land so I totally understand why they don't want ships.  The ships are getting too big and cause too much damage to the environment.  Key West really doesn't need cruise visitors.  It is already packed without them.

 

I love Key West so I hope we'll get to go and if we do, I hope we won't be mobbed by protesters.  We'll see...

[canderson]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:06 AM, terrydtx said:

The same thing is now happening if you sail into Venice, Italy. 

Not on a big ship.  They're all going to Ravenna now.

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, canderson said:

Not on a big ship.  They're all going to Ravenna now.

We are on the HAL Oosterdam next August sailing RT from Venice. HAL keeps insisting that they are going out of Venice, even though all of their sailings the following year, 2023 show Trieste as the port. It is pretty much evident they can't sail from Venice in 2022, but HAL has done nothing to change this. Very frustrating when trying to figure pre and post cruise hotels.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

We are on the HAL Oosterdam next August sailing RT from Venice. HAL keeps insisting that they are going out of Venice, even though all of their sailings the following year, 2023 show Trieste as the port. It is pretty much evident they can't sail from Venice in 2022, but HAL has done nothing to change this. Very frustrating when trying to figure pre and post cruise hotels.

Some ships have been departing from Marghera.  For those ships it appears that the norm has been to check in at the cruise terminal in Venice and then get bussed to the ship over at the industrial port in Marghera.

[nocl]

Here is an article that discusses the current status.  Pretty much indicates that large ships will not be coming into the city run pier and the major discussions will be around pier B and the cities existing contract with the company that owns Pier B.  Some major differences between the sides.  Pier B wants an average  passenger limit of 3700 passengers per day.  Which means that there are some days where no ships come in, such an agreement would pretty much allow any existing cruise ships to dock.  

 

https://keysweekly.com/42/attorney-advises-key-west-to-renegotiate-cruise-ship-contract-with-pier-b/

[D C]

5 hours ago, nocl said:

Here is an article that discusses the current status.  Pretty much indicates that large ships will not be coming into the city run pier and the major discussions will be around pier B and the cities existing contract with the company that owns Pier B.  Some major differences between the sides.  Pier B wants an average  passenger limit of 3700 passengers per day.  Which means that there are some days where no ships come in, such an agreement would pretty much allow any existing cruise ships to dock.  

 

https://keysweekly.com/42/attorney-advises-key-west-to-renegotiate-cruise-ship-contract-with-pier-b/

That came out of the planning commission meeting on Monday. 2+ hour video available online.

 

It was suggested that they renegotiate the pier B contract, but with an unspecified end goal.  With a perpetual contract, and the city on the hook for tens of millions of dollars in the event of a breach of contract, the negotiations should be interesting.  Pier B has nothing to lose, and no reason to capitulate. 

 

[nocl]

22 minutes ago, D C said:

That came out of the planning commission meeting on Monday. 2+ hour video available online.

 

It was suggested that they renegotiate the pier B contract, but with an unspecified end goal.  With a perpetual contract, and the city on the hook for tens of millions of dollars in the event of a breach of contract, the negotiations should be interesting.  Pier B has nothing to lose, and no reason to capitulate. 

 

Other than public opinion, continuing demonstrations, the city government continuing to look for other ways to manage the problem.

 

So far the only cruise line willing to go to Pier B has been NCLH lines. The others may be more sensitive to the protests and public opinion. Certainly they have been changing cruise itineraries and dropping Key West.

 

It will be interesting to see how negotiations go.  They started with an initial proposal that does not limit them much, over the next couple of months it should be interesting to see how much they are willing to change their proposals.

Edited December 16, 2021 by nocl

[D C]

18 minutes ago, nocl said:

Other than public opinion, continuing demonstrations, the city government continuing to look for other ways to manage the problem.

 

So far the only cruise line willing to go to Pier B has been NCLH lines. The others may be more sensitive to the protests and public opinion. Certainly they have been changing cruise itineraries and dropping Key West.

 

It will be interesting to see how negotiations go.  They started with an initial proposal that does not limit them much, over the next couple of months it should be interesting to see how much they are willing to change their proposals.

The city attorney has said that a lawsuit over ships (with pier b) would be 'duck tours on steroids'. 

 

The city was sued and either settled or lost for something like $8 million (iirc) because their contract with the owners of the conch train was anti-competitive and prevented the duck tours people from opening shop.   With pier B being a multi-million per year contract, the stakes are certainly high. 

 

Negotiations, if they take place, will be interesting. 

[nocl]

8 minutes ago, D C said:

The city attorney has said that a lawsuit over ships (with pier b) would be 'duck tours on steroids'. 

 

The city was sued and either settled or lost for something like $8 million (iirc) because their contract with the owners of the conch train was anti-competitive and prevented the duck tours people from opening shop.   With pier B being a multi-million per year contract, the stakes are certainly high. 

 

Negotiations, if they take place, will be interesting. 

Yes, but the biggest pressure on pier B is not from the city at this time. The city is not likely to go after Pier B directly for reasons stated by the attorney.  The city faces no risk in keeping large ships out of the two piers the city controls.  So that alone significantly limits the number of ships going into Key West.

 

It is how willing are cruise lines to use Pier B.  As I stated earlier the only ships so far have been from NCLH lines.  RCL and CCL lines have been changing itineraries.  Cruise lines really do not like protestors and mud slicks in the news.

 

So there is certainly pressure on Pier B to negotiate. Otherwise the other lines would not be changing itineraries.  If the cruise lines do not come, the city really has to do nothing.  

 

 

 

 

[mahdnc]

We received our official notification of the substitution of Key West with Costa Maya today for our Mar 5 Apex sailing (link).

 

Curiously, Celebrity made an unrelated small adjustment by reducing our time at Cozumel by an hour.  

 

[mikkelhansen]

The revised Apex sailings are now on Celebrity's website, together with all other itinerary modifications: https://www.celebritycruises.com/travel-alert/itinerary-modifications