Planning for worst case scenario - FAO Molecrochip

[Swanseasailor]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

• A full outbreak plan is in place. This has certain levels depending upon the severity of outbreak.
• Actions taken depend upon the relevant location of the ship, next port, number of days back to Southampton/Barbados.
• Planning has been done and actions now in place for handling Omicron/new variance outbreak. This scenario was well expected.

I Have a cruise on IONA in February and looking forward to going, fully vaccinated and in fair health.

While we have been made aware of protocols that mean infected passengers are removed at next port (which P and O claim is port authority decision) and close contacts isolated onboard. These protocols came as a surprise to many and the problems regarding insurance were highlighted by Megabear2.

 

A full outbreak plan? depending on severity. Is P and O or relevant port authority in control of such plan are there any implications for passengers regarding insurance?

 

Actions taken depend on relevant location does this confirm that P and O will not be the decision maker, again are there any implications regarding passenger insurance that you can foresee.

 

Planning has been done and actions now in place regarding Omicron/new variant this scenario well expected? Please could you elaborate on what P and O are going to do given the medical reports of the high transability of the Omicron or any future variant we could see. 

While passengers are reassured of their safety. By being asked to participate in locating their lifeboat/fire muster points.

There are many reports/tweets and complaints on social media claiming that onboard protocols are not being enforced regarding lift capacity/ hand washing/self service in buffet social distancing in entertainment venues not being adhered to.

   Such reports may or may not be true they do however give cause to question whether P and O are actually able to implement any safety plans regarding any any covid variants.

So my final Questions are you, or P and O prepared to release what plans and what actions they are going  implement and how are they to be enforced on board.

 

Releasing a statement saying we have a plan, but not giving information regarding what/how such a plan is leaves it open to wild speculation. In order for a passenger to CRUISE WITH CONFIDENCE I for one would have such confidence  if I were aware of what I was getting into. I for one certainly respect the quality of your posts molecrochip and I look forward in hope that you will be able to shine a light on my questions. Thank you and stay safe

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

I doubt we've yet seen the outcome of an Omicron outbreak on a cruise ship - all the recent cases referred to have probably been Delta.

 

Omicron is so much more infectious that it could well spread rapidly through large numbers of people in the confines of a cruise ship, and the pre-boarding checks can never be 100% effective.  We don't yet have any proper evidence to confirm the suggestions that Omicron is less serious than Delta, and the hospitalisation rate already in London and Manchester doesn't look good.

 

Rather like early last year, a cruise ship is beginning to look like the last place on earth you'd want to be with such a highly infectious variant, and I'm not sure what assurances P&O can make that will change that perception.

[Cristaltips]

I have a cruise booked for early next year. 35 nights USA and Caribbean.

When we paid the balance, Omicron was not even heard of and Delta was going in the right direction. We had been double vaccinated so we did a pros and cons calculation an paid our substantial balance. I see no mention from P&O that pax are going to need to have had their boosters as we are told that is the best protection from Omicron.
We have 5 other cruises booked and have heard of others who have been told that they cannot move this cruise. The icing on the cake is that the cabin we chose over two years ago is currently being used as an isolation cabin so we will have to be allocated another cabin.  

I am hoping and praying that the cruise gets cancelled and I can get a refund. I would normally be buzzing about preparing by now but the whole thing fills me with dread. The thought of being off loaded to quarantine in a foreign port terrifies me. Stay safe all and Merry Christmas 

[Harry Peterson]

13 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Although only 85 people have actually been admitted to hospital due to Omnicron so far, so the suspicion that it produces less severe symptoms seems to be true.

Which is not to say that a major outbreak on a cruise ship would not be a serious event. Given the speed that Omnicron spreads, the good news (?) is that by the end of January virtually everyone will gave had it, so perhaps a four week cruising suspension after Christmas would be in order.

That’s the Mail’s take, isn’t it wowzz. Their figure of 85 may or may not still be correct, but given that it’s only three weeks since the first reported UK cases hospitalisations at this point will be low. There’s still no evidence to support the claims about lower severity, and that’s being categorically denied by medics and scientists, who are still trying to persuade the government to take further action immediately before it’s too late.

 

Just a guessing game at this stage still, but prevarication didn’t work before and it won’t work now, whatever the extraneous ‘reasons’. It’s not just the number of admissions - it’s the usual inadequate winter staffing, staff burnout, and a likely rapid rise in staff off sick.

 

P&O should be offering customers the option to cancel if they feel unsafe, given the ineffectiveness of the two stipulated vaccine shots, but that seems very unlikely for obvious profit (or rather loss) reasons.

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

That’s the Mail’s take, isn’t it wowzz. Their figure of 85 may or may not still be correct, but given that it’s only three weeks since the first reported UK cases hospitalisations at this point will be low. There’s still no evidence to support the claims about lower severity, and that’s being categorically denied by medics and scientists, who are still trying to persuade the government to take further action immediately before it’s too late.

 

Just a guessing game at this stage still, but prevarication didn’t work before and it won’t work now, whatever the extraneous ‘reasons’. It’s not just the number of admissions - it’s the usual inadequate winter staffing, staff burnout, and a likely rapid rise in staff off sick.

 

P&O should be offering customers the option to cancel if they feel unsafe, given the ineffectiveness of the two stipulated vaccine shots, but that seems very unlikely for obvious profit (or rather loss) reasons.

P and O and other cruise lines are just doing whatever they can get away with whilst the Govts slowly realise they can't avoid lockdowns 

 

Once the Govt bring lockdowns in they will have to support the hospitality and travel industry again in some way

 

At which stage the cruise lines will be able to better afford putting health and safety ahead of cashflow whilst the lockdown lasts

 

And decision making on cruises going ahead will be taken out of the cruise lines hands

 

It's inevitable 

[Megabear2]

A very early good day from the happy ship Britannia where new arrivals are safely onboard and the late leaving Glasgow bound were safely sent off yesterday after enjoying their extra day in the sun.  Everything here is good, only one problem yesterday with lift queues with change over day and lots of hand luggage.  Very few abused the rules on lifts though one or two inevitable idiots were seen.  We are a happy ship so far with passenger and crew interaction at its best.  Staff have time to help and answer questions due to the ratio and although quiet everyone seems content with the safety measures. We've spoken to quite a lot of passengers and the "C" word is not being mentioned by most as everyone onboard seems to believe we are safer here than home.

 

Our only minor hiccup is excursions where the lack of numbers is leading to cancellations and the need to rearrange.  One strange one for Grenada as the trip to Mrs Renenwicks garden cancelled due to her passing away 5 months ago.  Can't understand why that's not noted by head office as tickets and letters of cancellation were printed.

 

As you can see no problems if that's all I've got to worry about.  Only day 2 passed but having a very relaxed and enjoyable time to date and feeling extremely content.  The cocktails are good too and this morning I'm hitting the spa.  What's not to like?

[Dermotsgirl]

58 minutes ago, Cristaltips said:

I have a cruise booked for early next year. 35 nights USA and Caribbean.

When we paid the balance, Omicron was not even heard of and Delta was going in the right direction. We had been double vaccinated so we did a pros and cons calculation an paid our substantial balance. I see no mention from P&O that pax are going to need to have had their boosters as we are told that is the best protection from Omicron.
We have 5 other cruises booked and have heard of others who have been told that they cannot move this cruise. The icing on the cake is that the cabin we chose over two years ago is currently being used as an isolation cabin so we will have to be allocated another cabin.  

I am hoping and praying that the cruise gets cancelled and I can get a refund. I would normally be buzzing about preparing by now but the whole thing fills me with dread. The thought of being off loaded to quarantine in a foreign port terrifies me. Stay safe all and Merry Christmas 

Although P&O aren’t advertising it, there have been many reports that people have been allowed to moved their cruises up to 48 hours before sailing.

 

perhaps you could try phoning them, and explain how you are feeling, and that you’ve heard other people have moved their cruises - and see what they say. 

[Cristaltips]

7 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Although P&O aren’t advertising it, there have been many reports that people have been allowed to moved their cruises up to 48 hours before sailing.

 

perhaps you could try phoning them, and explain how you are feeling, and that you’ve heard other people have moved their cruises - and see what they say. 

Thank you but two people I’ve heard of have been told that they can’t move this particular cruise. I have little space to move it to anyway. ☹️

[Interestedcruisefan]

28 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

A very early good day from the happy ship Britannia where new arrivals are safely onboard and the late leaving Glasgow bound were safely sent off yesterday after enjoying their extra day in the sun.  Everything here is good, only one problem yesterday with lift queues with change over day and lots of hand luggage.  Very few abused the rules on lifts though one or two inevitable idiots were seen.  We are a happy ship so far with passenger and crew interaction at its best.  Staff have time to help and answer questions due to the ratio and although quiet everyone seems content with the safety measures. We've spoken to quite a lot of passengers and the "C" word is not being mentioned by most as everyone onboard seems to believe we are safer here than home.

 

Our only minor hiccup is excursions where the lack of numbers is leading to cancellations and the need to rearrange.  One strange one for Grenada as the trip to Mrs Renenwicks garden cancelled due to her passing away 5 months ago.  Can't understand why that's not noted by head office as tickets and letters of cancellation were printed.

 

As you can see no problems if that's all I've got to worry about.  Only day 2 passed but having a very relaxed and enjoyable time to date and feeling extremely content.  The cocktails are good too and this morning I'm hitting the spa.  What's not to like?

Hi Megabear

 

It's great you are having a great time

 

Im really jealous of the sunshine and cocktails

 

Plus all that space you have on the boat to enjoy it all

 

I think you should start a special "live thread" about this cruise so that your holiday doesn't get drowned by the worst case covid discussion in this thread

 

A separate thread where we can all be positive together and practically enjoy a Caribbean cruise holiday with you ?

 

I would love that and I bet others would as well?

 

Plus it stops you having to get dragged into the middle of any covid chat when you should just be enjoying yourself?

Edited December 19, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, Cristaltips said:

Thank you but two people I’ve heard of have been told that they can’t move this particular cruise. I have little space to move it to anyway. ☹️

Which cruise is it and when are you due to travel?

[Cristaltips]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Which cruise is it and when are you due to travel?

11 February, USA and Caribbean on Ventura 35 nights 

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, Cristaltips said:

11 February, USA and Caribbean on Ventura 35 nights 

I wouldnt worry for a while. Lots of things are going to happen next few weeks that may help make your decision easier and/or give you more or less choice

 

This is such a fast changing situation

 

In your shoes I would just see what develops and not spend any money booking transfers etc yet

 

You will be able to get lots of advice and support from people on here between now and then 

 

I'm sure if you still are worried you won't need to do that cruise and will be able to swap one way or another

 

Even if it still takes place

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Cristaltips]

6 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I wouldnt worry for a while. Lots of things are going to happen next few weeks that may help make your decision easier and/or give you more or less choice

 

This is such a fast changing situation

 

In your shoes I would just see what develops and not spend any money booking transfers etc yet

 

You will be able to get lots of advice and support from people on here between now and then 

 

I'm sure if you still are worried you won't need to do that cruise and will be able to swap one way or another

 

Even if it still takes place

 

 

Thank you, that’s the plan, to sit it out and wait and see what transpires 

[zap99]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Sage would suggest Wednesday and click and collect or home delivery

 

I think!

 

And wash it before you eat it!

I'm glad you mentioned sage. Forgot that, but remembered Rosemary. We don't get home delivery as we like to wander around the shops and chat to the happy, smiley people. If we stayed in our bunker we would just get grumpy and argumentative. .......Oh no we wouldn't.🤮

[Selbourne]

I’m not really following all the ins and outs of this as cruising doesn’t appeal to us at present, but I see that a number of people are willing P&O to cancel their cruises due to concerns about recent developments. This may have already been addressed, but if P&O aren’t offering a blanket option for customers to postpone cruises once final payments are made, is not a simple solution to just say that someone in the party has tested positive, even if they haven’t?
 

Does P&O demand proof and, if so, how robust is such ‘proof’? Presumably it wouldn’t take much creativity to supply such ‘proof’ given that a positive test means that you have to self isolate and certainly can’t go anywhere near a GP surgery? Is it just a photo of a PCR test? 🤔To be clear, I’m not suggesting fraudulent insurance claims, just telling P&O something that gets you an immediate option to postpone a cruise, given that they are offering that option to some people but not others. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Selbourne

[Cathygh]

12 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Caution: I've only read page 1 in full but as the post is aimed at me, I have these comments:

• A full outbreak plan is in place. This has certain levels depending upon the severity of outbreak.
• Actions taken depend upon the relevant location of the ship, next port, number of days back to Southampton/Barbados.
• Planning has been done and actions now in place for handling Omicron/new variance outbreak. This scenario was well expected.
• Currently business as usual. Outbreaks on board are low compared to on shore. No onboard identification of variant - just positive or negative.
• Highly transmissible but mild is more akin to norovirus/flu/colds and very easily handled on a cruise ship.
• Cruise ships struggle with severe cases, and the vaccination requirement means people largely susceptible to these outbreaks don't normally get onto the ship.
• Cruising falls into its own category, its not travel, hospitality, aviation - it is cruising. There are cruise specific tweaks to government rules (e.g. PLF variances)  so don't rely on other non-cruise announcements until confirmed by Carnival/P&O etc.
• Expect port cancellations, maybe the odd cruise being cancelled but don't expect the schedule to be ripped up. No lay-up or staycation plans.
• Now passengers and crew vaccinated the approach is different.
• As part of restart plans, countries will provide medical assistance to cruise ships if necessary, even if borders are closed.
• If really concerned, I believe cruise lines considering cases to move cruise date on case by case basis.

Thank you Molecrochip for your very detailed answer to my original question,

[bee-ess]

1 hour ago, Cristaltips said:

11 February, USA and Caribbean on Ventura 35 nights 

I was told by P&O that the 'offer' to move paid up cruises is currently only until the end of January, so that is probably the reason. May we worth trying again nearer the end of January, they may have extended the period by then.

[davecttr]

5 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

I was told by P&O that the 'offer' to move paid up cruises is currently only until the end of January, so that is probably the reason. May we worth trying again nearer the end of January, they may have extended the period by then.

That's possible good news as my cruise departs on the 15th January

[Son of Anarchy]

1 hour ago, Cristaltips said:

Thank you, that’s the plan, to sit it out and wait and see what transpires 

We're on the same cruise.  Our plan is also the same as yours.

 

We got off Ventura on Friday (I may have mentioned it elsewhere 🤣🤣).  The reduced capacity (45%) made getting seats in the entertainment venues much easier.  Breakfast in the buffet much improved.  Still had the Pu Pu Platter at lunch in the MDR.  All in all a very relaxing experience.  Bring on Feb 11 2022!!

[lolabarola]

Hi

 

Contacted our TA yesterday to see if there was an option to move our early Jan Caribbean cruise and was told the option is only available to cruises out of Southampton. Any cruise where a flight is involved, normal terms apply apparently. Anyone know of instances where this is not the case?

[Cristaltips]

2 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

We're on the same cruise.  Our plan is also the same as yours.

 

We got off Ventura on Friday (I may have mentioned it elsewhere 🤣🤣).  The reduced capacity (45%) made getting seats in the entertainment venues much easier.  Breakfast in the buffet much improved.  Still had the Pu Pu Platter at lunch in the MDR.  All in all a very relaxing experience.  Bring on Feb 11 2022!!

We were on Iona in October and felt the same as you. My worry is not being able to get off in ports or being off loaded in a foreign port to quarantine. Either of which will totally ruin a not inexpensive cruise 

[Son of Anarchy]

9 minutes ago, Cristaltips said:

We were on Iona in October and felt the same as you. My worry is not being able to get off in ports or being off loaded in a foreign port to quarantine. Either of which will totally ruin a not inexpensive cruise 

Similar concerns here.  We booked this cruise because the ports are not the "usual" Caribbean ones that P&O tend to do.  And I really MUST go to NASA.  I keep saying to The Ole Lady that we will not be going round the Isle of Wight for 5 weeks.

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

P and O and other cruise lines are just doing whatever they can get away with whilst the Govts slowly realise they can't avoid lockdowns 

 

Once the Govt bring lockdowns in they will have to support the hospitality and travel industry again in some way

 

At which stage the cruise lines will be able to better afford putting health and safety ahead of cashflow whilst the lockdown lasts

 

And decision making on cruises going ahead will be taken out of the cruise lines hands

 

It's inevitable 

ICF, can I suggest you carefully read megabear's post #100, I doubt it will change your mind about cruise lines needing to shut down operations, but it certainly makes very interesting reading.

[Interestedcruisefan]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

ICF should also be aware that these figures come from computer modelling, which throughout the pandemic have proved to be very pessimistic, and mainly inaccurate. The adage of garbage in garbage out springs to mind.

They use worst case figures of not locking down

 

Govts don't ever let us get to that stage

 

As it is the general public are already imposing their own self choice lockdowns regardless 

 

Cruising perfect example tbh where people are postponing and cancelling in large numbers to play safe

 

Similarly people cancelling xmas parties, choosing to work from home etc

 

Just talking about the problems coming our way will change people's actions reduce numbers of cases as we've all seen a lot of already 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

16 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

ICF, can I suggest you carefully read megabear's post #100, I doubt it will change your mind about cruise lines needing to shut down operations, but it certainly makes very interesting reading.

I've read it

 

The suggestion is people on the cruise believing they are "safer than being at home"

 

I guess that entirely depends what they choose to do every day when they are at home 

 

In reality there's nothing safer than staying at home let's be brutally honest about it

 

Every time you leave your home or invite someone in to your home you add a risk

 

At home we all make our own choices of what we feel safe doing each day 

 

Would actually be pretty much impossible at home to create all the opportunities you get with going on an overseas cruise to catch covid 

 

You'd pretty much need to be going out and mixing with others round the clock at home to replicate the risks