Planning for worst case scenario - FAO Molecrochip

[Denarius]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Had a letter from Saga this morning. As from Feb 1st next year, everyone going on a cruise has to have received a booster jab at least 14 days prior to the cruise departure date..

Will P&O adopt the same policy for all those over 18 I wonder ?

Logically, it should do. It appears to be widely accepted now by the medical establishment that whilst two doses are useful in preventing serious illness and death they are ineffective in preventing infection. But three doses offer good protection against infection. For a cruise ship the latter is the critical factor, with the potential spectre of Omicron running rife amongst double vaccinated passengers who have no or little more protection against infection than the unvaccinated. Now Saga have acted I expect others to follow.

[PEMCO007]

As we were supposed to travel Friday, before the youngest tested positive! I have been following several threads and at least two people, that I know of tested positive at the Port, however subsequent lft's showed negative along with negative PCR's.  I don't think P&O were giving 2nd chance tests.

 

Also just got wind of a family removed today after testing positive.  I think the next few days could flag up a few more.

[bobstheboy]

Just reading that there were a number of Covid cases onboard Iona, someone said 49.  Also the spa and gym are closed and social distancing in theatre. Cruise is only 5 days out of 14 !

[Cathygh]

7 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

Just reading that there were a number of Covid cases onboard Iona, someone said 49.  Also the spa and gym are closed and social distancing in theatre. Cruise is only 5 days out of 14 !

And someone else said 8 positive cases.

[bobstheboy]

Lady who posted 49 says she is a nurse who was talking to medical staff, who knows ?   Also Sky Dome shows stopped for at least two days.   Cases were picked up after everyone was tested.

[Megabear2]

All our shore attendees for tomorrow now tested.  No news is apparently good news as you only get called back for a positive test.  We aren't ashore tomorrow as we aren't keen on St Vincent but all those I've spoken to this afternoon are apparently okay.

 

Another RCI ship - can't recall which - has been banned from St Lucia.  We are to be temperature checked there ok on boxing Day but warned it may be tightened due to the RCI ships' situation.

[Dermotsgirl]

Hopefully your luck will hold on Britannia,  Megabear.

 

I think Iona has issues though. I’ve seen the comments mentioned above re the numbers of cases. Also it has been posted that the Spa and gym are now shut.

 

in the current climate, I think most cruises will have cases. How long can they carry on sailing 

[molecrochip]

5 hours ago, Denarius said:

Logically, it should do. It appears to be widely accepted now by the medical establishment that whilst two doses are useful in preventing serious illness and death they are ineffective in preventing infection. But three doses offer good protection against infection. For a cruise ship the latter is the critical factor, with the potential spectre of Omicron running rife amongst double vaccinated passengers who have no or little more protection against infection than the unvaccinated. Now Saga have acted I expect others to follow.

This is so for Omicron, which is heavily mutated - and where the data is currently being gathered. Nothing to say that a new variant, if very similar to Delta, would not be resistant to two doses. However, in broad terms, it was always expected that the jab would not make you immune.

 

2 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

On the RC forum a passenger on Odyssey of the Seas has just posted the ship has been denied all port excursions in Curacao 

 

They've all been sat waiting to disembark for several hours before they saw all the coaches drive away!

 

And the captain has just announced they currently have 54 positive crew members and 3 positive passengers on board!

 

Surely they will have to test all the passengers now

 

Imagine the amount of quarantine they are going to need once they add in close contacts and test the whole ship?

 

That cruise clearly has serious problems 

RCI have a big problem. Many reports of them not following agreed procedures. Its not been a problem due to the low numbers since Delta has passed.... but they've not tightened up on embarkation proedures quick enough in the face of Omicron.

 

Carnival (group) never changed their embarkation procedures.

On 12/21/2021 at 12:45 PM, Selbourne said:

According to someone on the Cunard board, Cunard are saying that it’s only 10 passengers and they have been offloaded for quarantine in the US. Ship deep cleaned and cruise continuing as planned. Difficult to know who or what to believe but let’s hope that’s the extent of it as it would be a rotten way to spend Christmas. 

I believe that 60 people (staff & crew) needed to be re-tested because original test was either inconclusive or positive. Approx. 10 was actual number positive out of that 60.

[bobstheboy]

No comment on Iona alleged Covid numbers Molecrochip ?

[molecrochip]

12 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

No comment on Iona alleged Covid numbers Molecrochip ?

Its there, it was inevitable. The response onboard is proportionate. And no, I don't know the exact numbers.

 

Do remember, that this is likely to be the Omicron variant. Therefore anticipated milder illness not leading to the serious outcomes noted previously. We are not in a Diamond Princess scenario. Covid is understood, additional medical staff are on board, quarantine arrangements are in place. Enjoy your holiday, be sensible, but carry on.

 

[terrierjohn]

47 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Its there, it was inevitable. The response onboard is proportionate. And no, I don't know the exact numbers.

 

Do remember, that this is likely to be the Omicron variant. Therefore anticipated milder illness not leading to the serious outcomes noted previously. We are not in a Diamond Princess scenario. Covid is understood, additional medical staff are on board, quarantine arrangements are in place. Enjoy your holiday, be sensible, but carry on.

 

Your comment would be fully acceptable if quarantine meant confined on the ship and brought back to Southampton, but being offloaded abroad is a different matter; especially if the covid strain leads only to mild illness or being assymptomatic.

[Swanseasailor]

7 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Do remember, that this is likely to be the Omicron variant. Therefore anticipated milder illness not leading to the serious outcomes noted previously. We are not in a Diamond Princess scenario. Covid is understood, additional medical staff are on board, quarantine arrangements are in place. Enjoy your holiday, be sensible, but carry on.

 

Hi Molecrochip while we still await confirmation on Omicron leading to milder illness it has been established that it is highly transmissible.

       what would be the protocol should a mass breakout occur. If as anticipated it proves to be milder would passengers be able to remain onboard rather than be removed at next port.

    And is there a set number of Omicron/delta cases on any cruise before the cruise would be declared unsafe and abandoned. 

[bobstheboy]

10 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Its there, it was inevitable. The response onboard is proportionate. And no, I don't know the exact numbers.

 

Do remember, that this is likely to be the Omicron variant. Therefore anticipated milder illness not leading to the serious outcomes noted previously. We are not in a Diamond Princess scenario. Covid is understood, additional medical staff are on board, quarantine arrangements are in place. Enjoy your holiday, be sensible, but carry on.

 

Thank you for your reply confirming social media reports of Covid on Iona. Your comments are dismissive of the seriousness to passengers, who are being put ashore on Spanish territory, isolated and have to fly home. Many, my wife and I included, do not want this and it is not the holiday we signed up for. You only mention the arrangements onboard, not what happens when you reach the first Spanish port.

 

Enjoy your holiday. How can you when you live in fear of the above situation ?

[bee-ess]

12 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

Thank you for your reply confirming social media reports of Covid on Iona. Your comments are dismissive of the seriousness to passengers, who are being put ashore on Spanish territory, isolated and have to fly home. Many, my wife and I included, do not want this and it is not the holiday we signed up for. You only mention the arrangements onboard, not what happens when you reach the first Spanish port.

 

Enjoy your holiday. How can you when you live in fear of the above situation ?

I agree and the quarantine issue is the reason that we have moved both our January and March cruises. In my opinion I cannot see how you can enjoy a cruise with all the restrictions and the fear of getting infected and being quarantined ashore.

This is just my opinion but I think that the cruise lines need to do the responsible thing and curtail cruising at this time.

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

As things stand today, tens of thousands of people are enjoying their cruise holidays.  It seems from this and other threads that a few people do not have the risk appetite to cruise while they are uncertain about the possible consequences of a positive Covid test and potential disembarkation.  That is fine.  Individuals in that situation should not travel until the risks decrease to a risk level at which they are comfortable.   Many thousands of cruisers are clearly content with the current level of risk and I don't think the concerns of the few should preclude this majority from enjoying a holiday within their tolerance for risk, while governments and cruise companies assess that the collective risks remain manageable and have countermeasures in place to mitigate them.

[Interestedcruisefan]

The longer the cruise and the further away it travels the more risk of having to do overseas quarantine in poor conditions

 

The rate omicron transmits then there's going to inevitably be higher proportions of quarantine needed for passengers and close contacts

 

Some cruise lines are putting big numbers of passengers on the ships again. Clearly decisions taken before we knew about Omicron. The US based cruisers clearly were comfortable to book in bigger numbers than UK cruisers  as they aren't envisaging getting stranded a long way from home like we might be 

 

Because most of those big passenger number cruises to date start and end in US and are 7 nights or shorter there is indeed less chance of overseas quarantine and less worries when you book

 

So I can actually get why so many are happy to travel and  be on board. They have the sun nearby as well

 

Better situation than us Bits face travelling from Southampton 

 

I really  have to question the wisdom of longer cruises than 7 days right now though for both the cruise lines and their passengers 

 

Where the numbers of positives and close contacts could seriously rack up and make the cruise less and less viable as it progresses?

 

The 35 Night Caribbean cruise for P and O for example makes the chances of having to quarantine abroad much more of a concern surely for all concerned?

 

That's just a big big problem for lots of people waiting to happen IMO

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Interestedcruisefan

[Cathygh]

36 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

....passengers, who are being put ashore on Spanish territory, isolated and have to fly home. Many, my wife and I included, do not want this and it is not the holiday we signed up for. .....

Enjoy your holiday. How can you when you live in fear of the above situation ?

Exactly. And with Omicron being so infectious, once it gets hold on a ship it will be hard to eradicate, certainly amongst the crew. Meanwhile I am still in 2 minds about going on QE (sorry it's not P&O this time) in the New Year. It may be that we can move it but there is no other Cunard crusie currently on sale I want to move it to and I can't afford to lose the money.

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

As things stand today, tens of thousands of people are enjoying their cruise holidays.  It seems from this and other threads that a few people do not have the risk appetite to cruise while they are uncertain about the possible consequences of a positive Covid test and potential disembarkation.  That is fine.  Individuals in that situation should not travel until the risks decrease to a risk level at which they are comfortable.   Many thousands of cruisers are clearly content with the current level of risk and I don't think the concerns of the few should preclude this majority from enjoying a holiday within their tolerance for risk, while governments and cruise companies assess that the collective risks remain manageable and have countermeasures in place to mitigate them.

The large majority are enjoying their cruise

 

A small minority are undergoing a Holiday from hell and being stranded overseas in not the greatest situations 

 

It's great for the lucky majority. Horrible for the unlucky minority

 

Problem is the numbers in the unlucky minority are on the increase daily 

 

 

[Selbourne]

10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Your comment would be fully acceptable if quarantine meant confined on the ship and brought back to Southampton, but being offloaded abroad is a different matter; especially if the covid strain leads only to mild illness or being assymptomatic.

Obviously the risk of being offloaded at a foreign port rules out cruising for those of us in the situation that we are both in John (carers to full time wheelchair users who could not fly home). I guess that if P&O would confirm that people in our situations could remain on board in quarantine until the end of the cruise that might reassure some, but would you really want to go on a cruise where you risk being confined to a cabin throughout (even one with a balcony), with a rubbish TV and fed on room service ‘meals’? Perhaps it’s just us, but that’s our idea of hell.
 

Thankfully, Omicron is increasingly sounding as though it is mild, but the virulence of it (even amongst the vaccinated, albeit with mild or no symptoms) is surely going to keep this risk alive on cruise ships for months to come?

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Its pretty much irrelevant to cruisers if omicron is mild whilst Govts around the world insist Omicron requires quarantine and self isolation etc and don't want anybody bringing it in to their country

 

End result is the same dreaded quarantine away from home that none if us want to risk facing

 

Until Govts believe omicron isn't an illness to be worried about then it's not mild based on the impact it can have on our holidays and travel plans etc

 

It's actually far far worse a variant  than delta for holidaymakers due to the speed it transmits 

 

Let alone how ill it makes us or not

 

 

I still struggle to understand why any country would wish to bring infected cruise ship passengers ashore, especially when the cruise ship has dedicated quarantine areas, and can’t help but wonder if this is more about the cruise operators wishing to offload for fear that, if they don’t, they may cumulatively end up with more passengers requiring quarantine cabins than they have allocated? 

[bobstheboy]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I still struggle to understand why any country would wish to bring infected cruise ship passengers ashore, especially when the cruise ship has dedicated quarantine areas, and can’t help but wonder if this is more about the cruise operators wishing to offload for fear that, if they don’t, they may cumulatively end up with more passengers requiring quarantine cabins than they have allocated? 

It does make me think you could be right about cruise lines wanting passengers off the ship.

 

What is happening to crew infected by Covid ? I haven't read that they are being off loaded. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I still struggle to understand why any country would wish to bring infected cruise ship passengers ashore, especially when the cruise ship has dedicated quarantine areas, and can’t help but wonder if this is more about the cruise operators wishing to offload for fear that, if they don’t, they may cumulatively end up with more passengers requiring quarantine cabins than they have allocated? 

I agree

 

Especially with the new variant

 

Regardless It does appear quarantine cabins on boats don't have balconies 

 

I've read a few accounts lately of quarantine on board

 

Watching films and foc room service burgers and club sandwiches etc

 

Not brilliant but would prefer that to a quarantine hotel as at least you are heading back at the same time

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, bobstheboy said:

It does make me think you could be right about cruise lines wanting passengers off the ship.

 

What is happening to crew infected by Covid ? I haven't read that they are being off loaded. 

Me neither

 

But things may have to change as numbers increase 

[Dermotsgirl]

27 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

As things stand today, tens of thousands of people are enjoying their cruise holidays.  It seems from this and other threads that a few people do not have the risk appetite to cruise while they are uncertain about the possible consequences of a positive Covid test and potential disembarkation.  That is fine.  Individuals in that situation should not travel until the risks decrease to a risk level at which they are comfortable.   Many thousands of cruisers are clearly content with the current level of risk and I don't think the concerns of the few should preclude this majority from enjoying a holiday within their tolerance for risk, while governments and cruise companies assess that the collective risks remain manageable and have countermeasures in place to mitigate them.

I think it may be that some cruisers are unaware of the risks that they are facing.

 

My friends are currently on the QM2 Christmas cruise and will be away for a month. Up until now, they have been very cautious - for example, the first time they went to a restaurant was in September, first time in 18 months.

 

When I spoke to them before they left, they didn’t seem to have any idea that Covid could get on board, even less that they could be offloaded in an overseas port, or quarantined on the ship. I didn’t say anything, as I didn’t want to put a dampener on their enthusiasm, and they had already paid in full anyway.

 

I’ve got to pay for my next cruise at the end of January.  I wasn’t feeling particularly inclined to pay up, and I’m even less inclined now that we have Omicron.

 

I’ve begun to think that my cruising days are over, at least for the foreseeable future. Which is sad, as I’ve loved all my cruises,  but nothing stays the same for ever 

[Selbourne]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I agree

 

Especially with the new variant

 

Regardless It does appear quarantine cabins on boats don't have balconies 

 

I've read a few accounts lately of quarantine on board

 

Watching films and foc room service burgers and club sandwiches etc

 

Not brilliant but would prefer that to a quarantine hotel as at least you are heading back at the same time

 

 

I was under the impression that if you are quarantined you get at least the level of cabin that you paid for, so most will be balcony cabins. In fact someone on here reported that friends had been quarantined in a suite (and they weren’t suite passengers). Still not my idea of a holiday, even in a suite, but I don’t think that everyone gets an inside cabin!