Trying to make an informed decision, hard to find true data

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Javajitterz said:

"With the exception of cruise ships operating in Florida, all cruise ships operating in U.S. waters, or seeking to operate in U.S. waters, must comply with the requirements of CDC’s Temporary Extension & Modification of Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and Technical Instructions, even when outside of U.S. waters."

 

All ships out of Florida are NOT bound by the CDC orders. I am cancelling.

 

 

As far as I can see, every NCL ship operating out of Florida is listed on the CDC color code chart, meaning they are voluntarily complying with all of the CDC requirements.  It is definitely your decision whether to cancel or not, but there isn't anything that is "less than forthcoming" from NCL concerning conditions onboard.

[KAYKAY121]

We just got off the Bliss yesterday. NCL is not forthcoming while you are on board either. Families were isolated in their rooms and you weren’t informed. Had we had cancel for any reason or had NCL extended the policy before we left, we would have canceled. It is just not the same. We have two future cruises booked and will probably cancel. The advertised concern for your safety/health first was not what we experienced nor what we saw with others’ experience. From being left at hotels without reservations for quarantine to no help because NCL didn’t approve the hotel they chose to stay at, etc, it is not as advertised. The NCL employees that test positive are not paid for their quarantine time. I am just not a fan of their true actions while on the ship with Covid.

 

However, it was amazing to be on a ship with 2800 passengers, although the music and shows were limited. We had a fantastic time and thoroughly enjoyed the trip. The ship is beautiful but wearing masks is not for us and we won’t cruise again if they are required.

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, KAYKAY121 said:

The NCL employees that test positive are not paid for their quarantine time.

This is not true.  Under the Maritime Labor Convention of 2006, the shipowner is required to pay full wages to sick crew while they are onboard the ship, and pay wages in whole or part (depending on the law of the flag state and/or collective bargaining agreement) while landed for treatment.

[KAYKAY121]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not true.  Under the Maritime Labor Convention of 2006, the shipowner is required to pay full wages to sick crew while they are onboard the ship, and pay wages in whole or part (depending on the law of the flag state and/or collective bargaining agreement) while landed for treatment.

That is not what the staff says. I didn’t say sick. I said quarantine and positive 

Edited January 3, 2022 by KAYKAY121

[derek005]

9 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not true.  Under the Maritime Labor Convention of 2006, the shipowner is required to pay full wages to sick crew while they are onboard the ship, and pay wages in whole or part (depending on the law of the flag state and/or collective bargaining agreement) while landed for treatment.

Thanks for the accurate information. There is a ton of BS on these boards about this.

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, KAYKAY121 said:

That is not what the staff says.

That's what the law says, and any of the crew can pick up their cell phone and ring Jim Walker who will gladly represent them in a suit against NCL, or give the information to the Bahamas Maritime Authority, who could detain the ship.  They may not get their full wage, since they are not working "overtime" (hours over 40 in 7 days), but they will be getting the statutory minimum wage of $675/month, at the very least, and contractually (collective bargaining) likely more.

Edited January 3, 2022 by chengkp75

[JustAPilot]

Love it, chengkp just came in here and cleaned house from all these “but s0me staff told me they don’t get paid!!” lmao.

Also taking a recent chemo relative  onboard a cruise ship during a pandemic that affects immune compromised people is a good idea? Like what? 

[TNcruising02]

11 minutes ago, JustAPilot said:

Love it, chengkp just came in here and cleaned house from all these “but s0me staff told me they don’t get paid!!” lmao.

Also taking a recent chemo relative  onboard a cruise ship during a pandemic that affects immune compromised people is a good idea? Like what? 

That's what I was thinking about taking an immune compromised person on a cruise.  This virus is raging.  Of the 11 relatives/extended family I know with covid, ten are doing fine.  The 11th is very high risk.  He is vaccinated and boosted, but he is on day 11 of some rough symptoms.  He can't even get the treatment his doctor said he should have because they are all out.

I really hope people who are high risk reconsider cruising right now.  By the way, none of these people caught covid from cruising or traveling. The virus is just very contagious right now.  Every day I find out someone else has covid.

Edited January 3, 2022 by TNcruising02

[KAYKAY121]

32 minutes ago, derek005 said:

Thanks for the accurate information. There is a ton of BS on these boards about this.

The law says sick, correct? I said positive and quarantine. They are not paid to quarantine. How would the staff benefit from lying to me and this was my experience not BS. 

[KAYKAY121]

5 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

That's what I was thinking about taking an immune compromised person on a cruise.  This virus is raging.  Of the 11 relatives/extended family I know with covid, ten are doing fine.  The 11th is very high risk.  He is vaccinated and boosted, but he is on day 11 of some rough symptoms.  He can't even get the treatment his doctor said he should have because they are all out.

I really hope people who are high risk reconsider cruising right now.  By the way, none of these people caught covid from cruising or traveling. The virus is just very contagious right now.  Every day I find out someone else has covid.

This is not true. MANY are catching this on cruise ships

[stephenandrew]

I really don't think any of the cruise lines are "cooking the books" or knowingly doing anything to intentionally act inconsistently with any CDC guidelines they have agreed to.  I'm sure that some errors, oversights, and mistakes in judgement have been made, but I think those things can reasonably be expected to happen in a situation that is as challenging as this one.  I also think the issue of having sufficient data to make a decision about going a cruise right now is pretty silly.  You can certainly slice and dice the data 1000 different ways, but we know that COVID is nearly certain to be present on every cruise ship you sail on right now, and some individuals will either intentionally or inadvertently fail to follow the cruise lines' COVID mitigation protocols (mask wearing, social distancing, refusing to get tested and risk quarantine when they experience COVIS symptoms).  Combining this with being in the relatively confined spaces of a cruise ship with a lot of people, there is a reasonable possibility of contracting COVID.  I'm not saying one should not go on a cruise, but anyone who is being reasonable knows that if do, getting sick is a very realistic possibility right now. 

[TNcruising02]

2 minutes ago, KAYKAY121 said:

This is not true. MANY are catching this on cruise ships

What is not true?  I just posted my experience.  How can my experience not be true?  I didn't say people weren't getting covid on cruise ships.  I said the people I know who have covid did not get it from traveling or cruising.  Obviously, if a person can get it from their normal routine, the virus is very contagious.  Everyone knows traveling increases the risk.

Edited January 3, 2022 by TNcruising02

[KAYKAY121]

4 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

What is not true?  I just posted my experience.  How can my experience not be true?  I didn't say people weren't getting covid on cruise ships.  I said the people I know who have covid did not get it from traveling or cruising.  Obviously, if a person can get it from their normal comings and goings, the virus is very contagious.  Everyone knows traveling increases the risk.

Sorry misread what you said. But what you did say was that what I said is BS and it totally is not. What is BS is the treatment of paying passengers by NCL  who do get positive. Period.  I wasn’t quoting or questioning law. It wasn’t one employee that told us this. Maybe it is a scare tactic to get them to comply with the rules imposed by NCL. I can’t argue something I don’ know. I know we didn’t discuss sickness but the law that was quoted was in regard to sickness. Have a great day. 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by KAYKAY121

[derek005]

7 minutes ago, KAYKAY121 said:

Sorry misread what you said. But what you did say was that what I said is BS and it totally is not. What is BS is the treatment of paying passengers by NCL  who do get positive. Period.  I wasn’t quoting or questioning law. It wasn’t one employee that told us this. Maybe it is a scare tactic to get them to comply with the rules imposed by NCL. I can’t argue something I don’ know. I know we didn’t discuss sickness but the law that was quoted was in regard to sickness. Have a great day. 

 

No, this was not directed at you. I was just saying that a lot of the information is not true. Sorry if you took it that way.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, KAYKAY121 said:

The law says sick, correct? I said positive and quarantine. They are not paid to quarantine. How would the staff benefit from lying to me and this was my experience not BS. 

If the company says the crew member is "not fit for duty", for any reason, including quarantine, then the crew member is "sick" and entitled to full wages.  If they are on the ship, during their contract, they are entitled to wages regardless of whether they are working or not, regardless of reason.

[CPT Trips]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

That's what the law says, and any of the crew can pick up their cell phone and ring Jim Walker who will gladly represent them in a suit against NCL, or give the information to the Bahamas Maritime Authority, who could detain the ship.  They may not get their full wage, since they are not working "overtime" (hours over 40 in 7 days), but they will be getting the statutory minimum wage of $675/month, at the very least, and contractually (collective bargaining) likely more.

Crew typically work 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week. If I am correct that a crewmember’s total compensation is contracted minimum wage plus overtime as well as their agreed upon share of the “tip pool”, then they would take a sizable hit while in quarantine. 
That might be why any communication with pax about pay might be (mis)construed is they aren’t paid while quarantined.
 

 

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

Crew typically work 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week. If I am correct that a crewmember’s total compensation is contracted minimum wage plus overtime as well as their agreed upon share of the “tip pool”, then they would take a sizable hit while in quarantine. 
That might be why any communication with pax about pay might be (mis)construed is they aren’t paid while quarantined.
 

 

As I say, there is a statutory minimum wage of $675/month, which is considerably less than their full wage, but it is still a quite adequate wage in their home country (average wage in the Philippines is $3218 per year).  Also, as I say, that minimum wage would be for entry level crew, more for more senior personnel, and based on their collective bargaining agreement, or flag state laws, it could be higher.

[KAYKAY121]

52 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If the company says the crew member is "not fit for duty", for any reason, including quarantine, then the crew member is "sick" and entitled to full wages.  If they are on the ship, during their contract, they are entitled to wages regardless of whether they are working or not, regardless of reason.

My statement to the original poster was not for debate on maritime law. It was my experience and my opinion about NCL based on my conversations and experience. Just because the law is written doesn’t mean it is always followed. I don’t argue behind a keyboard. Enjoy your evening, I still believe after cruising that NCL can be more open to passengers and we didn’t enjoy being masked all the time. Fortunate enough to have never had COVID and live in a place where we don’t have to be masked at all times. 

[Keene33]

4 hours ago, KAYKAY121 said:

We just got off the Bliss yesterday. NCL is not forthcoming while you are on board either. Families were isolated in their rooms and you weren’t informed. Had we had cancel for any reason or had NCL extended the policy before we left, we would have canceled. It is just not the same. We have two future cruises booked and will probably cancel. The advertised concern for your safety/health first was not what we experienced nor what we saw with others’ experience. From being left at hotels without reservations for quarantine to no help because NCL didn’t approve the hotel they chose to stay at, etc, it is not as advertised. The NCL employees that test positive are not paid for their quarantine time. I am just not a fan of their true actions while on the ship with Covid.

 

However, it was amazing to be on a ship with 2800 passengers, although the music and shows were limited. We had a fantastic time and thoroughly enjoyed the trip. The ship is beautiful but wearing masks is not for us and we won’t cruise again if they are required.

I really appreciate your first hand experience.

 

While I have read all the rules, will follow all the rules, there seems to be a real lack of information as to the process that takes place in the event either myself or wife tests positive at the port prior to entry.

 

Wish we lived close enough to drive for that would make it a no brainer for us. 

 

 

 

[kayjay76]

7 hours ago, Thain said:

I really appreciate your first hand experience.

 

While I have read all the rules, will follow all the rules, there seems to be a real lack of information as to the process that takes place in the event either myself or wife tests positive at the port prior to entry.

 

Wish we lived close enough to drive for that would make it a no brainer for us. 

 

 

 

We are in Mass and our friends are also in NH. Our cruise is the 19th and we are really considering driving instead of flying. It's not going to be that great but just the thought of having our vehicle there just in case makes it worth it to us. Not only for before boarding but the just in case we test positive on board, i want a way to get home.

[KAYKAY121]

20 hours ago, Javajitterz said:

"With the exception of cruise ships operating in Florida, all cruise ships operating in U.S. waters, or seeking to operate in U.S. waters, must comply with the requirements of CDC’s Temporary Extension & Modification of Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and Technical Instructions, even when outside of U.S. waters."

 

All ships out of Florida are NOT bound by the CDC orders. I am cancelling.

 

 

I don't blame you. Make sure you do it at 61 days or more. 

[KAYKAY121]

14 hours ago, Thain said:

I really appreciate your first hand experience.

 

While I have read all the rules, will follow all the rules, there seems to be a real lack of information as to the process that takes place in the event either myself or wife tests positive at the port prior to entry.

 

Wish we lived close enough to drive for that would make it a no brainer for us. 

 

 

 

You don't have to show any documentation of vaccine to fly nor negative covid testing in the airports we flew through since we didn't leave the US by plane.  I cannot express the anxiety there is in that room waiting for test results and seeing those that test positive removed. It is gut wrenching. It is only 15-20 minutes after standing in line for 3 hours for the test so it was a long time of what if?? 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by KAYKAY121

[IrwinandCheryl]

On 1/3/2022 at 1:10 PM, Javajitterz said:

I just got off the phone with NCL, rep confirmed Puerto Rico has "closed its borders". Her exact words. 

Did it only close its borders to cruises coming to visit for a stop over or for cruises departing and arriving from there? Holding off on canceling because if they cancel I get a refund - if I cancel - future cruise credit.

[MsTabbyKats]

Simple way to make a decision:

 

If you could get your cash back....no questions asked.....would you cancel?

 

If the answer is yes....you should cancel, even if you lose everything.

 

The money is already spent...gone.  If you go on your cruise...you'll just be compounding the problem by spending more money....and all the "covid related" possiblities.

[blueslily]

I'm sitting here reading through multiple threads. And, I'm scratching my head at the number of people who are asking other people what they think when it comes to cancelling or not. And, I'm scratching my head when seeing the number of people talking about NCL needing to report accurate numbers. We are all responsible for ourselves. We all know that COVID is everywhere. We all know that this variant spreads fast. It came fast and is hitting hard. We all know what we can afford cost wise and time wise. We know what our family, work, and financial commitments are.  We have plenty information to make a decision ourselves about what is in our own best interest. Whether there are 300 or 50 positive people on a ship today, has nothing to do with a different sailing 5, 10,  even 20 days from now. This is an ever changing situation. No person or company has a crystal ball right now. We can all decide for ourselves what we are willing to risk at this time. I was on the Royal board and they are talking about how cruisers with NCL have it better. Over here, some posters are saying how cruisers on Royal have it better. This is a moment by moment situation. People and cruise lines are trying to do the best they can given circumstances and probably some context that we will not ever know. I just sailed. I had a great time. My next cruise will be when I decide to go.  It's not based on anything anyone one here says. We all know our own health status. The health of our loved ones. How much money or time we can spare. If a situation arises, I want to be able to take care of myself. If NCL helps, great. But, if they happen to be disorganized or short staffed and cant smoothky help me in that very moment, I want to be able to house, feed, and transport myself for whatever the situation is.  I dont want to be dependent on them, regardless if their policy says they will help with this and that. I dont want to be reliant on someone else during this ever changing situation. There are tons of balls up in the air right now to be managed. Something is going to drop and more than once right now. Is a refund versus a FCC worth possible drama? We answer that for ourselves. I type all this to say we can make decisions based on what we know about ourselves. NCL has a ton to think about right now. They wont have an answer for every single person. Call center folks are not going to know all the details for everything as it is changing so quickly.  They are on the phones during their shifts. They aren't breaking every 5 minutes to get recent updates for each ship or sailing.  I've been through crises. Sometimes there are tons of fires at one time that you are trying to manage. On the outside, it looks easy to people who aren't in the midst of trying to manage it all.  All the best everyone. Just think about your own life situation and decide what you can risk right now and what you can handle right now because everyone has their own unique situation. And, NCL doesn't need to give us numbers to figure that out. Good night. (Wow, sorry that this is so long.)

Edited January 5, 2022 by blueslily