B210 Spain Portugal cruise

[Tikka234]

Hi were going on the above cruise, not been to any of these ports before Lisbon, Malaga, Cartagena, Gibralta, and Cadiz.

How easy is it to do your own thing, ?

One member of our party has limited walking.

Any just see at any of the ports.

Was hoping to go to see the monkeys in Gibralta, but on ships excursions says you have steps in the rock .

Any advice would be great 

Thanks

[Bin man]

I think all those ports are easy to walk in to the town areas cadiz very easy ,Lisbon pretty good we just walk left out of port gate and about a mile to main square all very flat ,Cartagena very similar to cadiz, Malaga been once think that was straight  forward .Gibralter always just walk into town .Only did one trip 2001 in small taxi trip you could just sit in taxi if you wanted .Hope that  helps . Over all think you have straight forward ports 

[Gettingwarmer]

Lisbon is very flat near dock but gets very hilly. Very large place so a lot of walking. Does have ho ho bus and trams. 
Malaga is very nice and has flat areas. There is a road train from dock to end of dock area. Cartagena you dock very near the small town and is easily walkable. Gibraltar there are buses that take you to town. The rock I would think unsuitable for limited walkers. 

[Son of Anarchy]

1 minute ago, Tikka234 said:

Hi were going on the above cruise, not been to any of these ports before Lisbon, Malaga, Cartagena, Gibralta, and Cadiz.

How easy is it to do your own thing, ?

One member of our party has limited walking.

Any just see at any of the ports.

Was hoping to go to see the monkeys in Gibralta, but on ships excursions says you have steps in the rock .

Any advice would be great 

Thanks

All depends on what you want to do and how limited your party member's walking is.

 

Lisbon - lots of things to see and do.  We don't bother with the shuttle bus, but it is a bit of a wander in to the centre of town.

 

Malaga - A long walk into the town centre, or use the shuttle bus.  Lots of bars and shops, a cathedral and the Picasso museum.  If you're not bothered to go into town there's a beach near the cruise terminal, and also a quayside area rammed with bars and restaurants.  Think more mall type rather than local Spanish.

 

Cartagena - walk into town.  There's a Roman amphitheatre, does have a lift to get to the different levels.

 

Gib - There's a taxi transfer stop outside the terminal. £2pp each way to take you to just outside Casemate Square.  A long walk from there to the cable car.  We did the cable car independantly and there is a LOT of walking up the rock.  We noticed that there are tours going from the cable car station that drive you up to all the sites at the rock, giving you time to explore on foot.  Apparently its the same price pp as using the cable car.  

 

Cadiz - Walk into town.  Lots of bars, cathedral, market etc.  Two forts, quite a walk to one, and an even longer walk to the one on the spit, which was closed when we walked all the way out to it!

[Tikka234]

2 hours ago, Son of Anarchy said:

All depends on what you want to do and how limited your party member's walking is.

 

Lisbon - lots of things to see and do.  We don't bother with the shuttle bus, but it is a bit of a wander in to the centre of town.

 

Malaga - A long walk into the town centre, or use the shuttle bus.  Lots of bars and shops, a cathedral and the Picasso museum.  If you're not bothered to go into town there's a beach near the cruise terminal, and also a quayside area rammed with bars and restaurants.  Think more mall type rather than local Spanish.

 

Cartagena - walk into town.  There's a Roman amphitheatre, does have a lift to get to the different levels.

 

Gib - There's a taxi transfer stop outside the terminal. £2pp each way to take you to just outside Casemate Square.  A long walk from there to the cable car.  We did the cable car independantly and there is a LOT of walking up the rock.  We noticed that there are tours going from the cable car station that drive you up to all the sites at the rock, giving you time to explore on foot.  Apparently its the same price pp as using the cable car.  

 

Cadiz - Walk into town.  Lots of bars, cathedral, market etc.  Two forts, quite a walk to one, and an even longer walk to the one on the spit, which was closed when we walked all the way out to it!

is there any other transport to get you to the cable car from the ship in Gibralta?

what are the paths like to walk around on the rock, ? Can you walk down to the rock exit to meet someone if you don't want to go inside the rock? Sorry a lot of ? Just trying to see how we can visit as member who can't walk too far won't go inside the rock where some of us will want to thanks

[John Bull]

22 hours ago, Tikka234 said:

is there any other transport to get you to the cable car from the ship in Gibralta?

what are the paths like to walk around on the rock, ? Can you walk down to the rock exit to meet someone if you don't want to go inside the rock? Sorry a lot of ? Just trying to see how we can visit as member who can't walk too far won't go inside the rock where some of us will want to thanks

  With walking difficulties (or if, like us, you're just plain lazy 😉), the cable-car is probably not the best way to go up the Rock.

It's a 30 - 35 minute walk, or a taxi ride, from ship to bottom cablecar station. There's a bus route but only for part of the way.

If you arrive at the cablecar after about 10am there's often a long line due to the coachloads of day-visitors from the resorts of the Costa del Sol.

At the bottom station there's a staircase up to the cablecar platform, though not overly-difficult even wih walking difficulties.

In moderately high winds the cablecar service is  often suspended (pun intended 🙄) 

Cafe & super views at the top, but it's a 5 minute walk south to the Apes Den (Barbary Macaque Feeding Station on Googlemaps), the new Skywalk just beyond, and a further 10 minutes to St Michael's Cave. Or a half-hour walk north to the Great SiegeTunnels. The routes between those places are undulating, but not excessively steep because they're all at around the same height.

The Skywalk includes a flight of steps.

St Michael's cave has awkward steps , which would be challenging for those with walking difficulties.

The Great Siege Tunnels are quite steeply sloped, but that's not a major obstacle.

The Cablecar is ideal for those who want to do their own thing in their own time & hike along the Upper Rock.  Many will walk back down to town from the Great Siege Tunnels rather than re-trace their steps to the cablecar station. 

 

Instead, consider a taxi/van tour from the cruise terminal. About 1 3/4 hr tour, the fare includes all admissions. You'll be put in a taxi or van along with fellow-cruisers (max about 8), no need to pre-book but leave the ship at the same time as the herd so that you don't have to wait for the vehicle to fill. It goes to the southern overlook at the Pillars of Hercules (southerly views of North Africa in decent weather) for a photostop, then up to St Michael's cave for a stop of 15 - 20 minutes. For those who can't or won't go in the cave there are glorious elevated westerly views over the Bay of Algeciras.

From here it's a single lane one-way road. I don't know if the vans stop at the new Skywalk, then next stop is the Apes Den (Macaque Feeding Station). A stop of vaguely 15 minutes. There's usually a line of 5 to 15 vans, routine is to walk from the back of the line to the apes den. Drivers sometimes carry fruit, but please don't feed them (the apes, not the drivers 😂) with your sandwiches, chips & such. Hold tight to hats, handbags, cameras and everything else cos they're a bunch of brazen thieves (again the apes, not the drivers . Western views over the Bay of Algeciras, eastern views of the Mediterranean tho the eastern view is often limited by clouds which roll up the vertical eastern face. The line of vans gradually shunt forward & you re-join it at the front of the line. Anyone unhappy about mixing with the the apes can stay in the vehicle will still get a decent view - the apes tend to climb all over the vehicles. 

Across the saddle of the ridge to the Great Siege Tunnels, built 1779 - 83. About a 15 min stop. Vertical northern views over the airport, border, and Spain. It's amazing to look down & see an aircraft land or take-off.

Then down past the WW2 tunnels (a few people finish their van tour here & bale out to take a one-hour tour of the WW2 Tunnels, then walk (about 30 mins) past the Moorish Castle & down to Casemates Square).

The taxi/van can take you back to the ship, but most folk finish their tour in Casemates Square, grab a beer or coffee or light lunch, and walk the level pedestrianised Main Street - shops, duty-frees, cafes, pubs, and a few minor sights such as the Governor's Residence & the little Trafalgar Cemetery (sailors who died during the battle were buried at sea, those who later succumbed to their wounds are buried here.

It's a 20-25 minute level walk (or taxi) from Casemates Square back to your ship.

 

Cost of a taxi/van tour 2/3 years ago used to be around £22 / €25 (both currencies accepted but not USD etc), that's about the same as a two-way cablecar. I've heard mixed reports on fares recently, including that it's more expensive from the cruise terminal than from the town centre, you'll need to check. Fare includes admission fees & taxes, tipping isn't compulsory, but most folk put their hands in their pockets for a few € or £.

You could negotiate with the driver to continue with other sights like the 100-pounder gun and Europa Point, even a sea-level circumnavigation - if you can persuade others in the vehicle to join you it would of course cost a lot less.

Or there are custom tours available which include other sights & stops, but you need to pre-book the whole vehicle. Here's an example 

https://www.rocktoursgibraltar.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIle2784Oi9QIVk-vtCh0HWAPFEAAYAiAAEgKx_vD_BwE 

 

JB 🙂

Edited January 8, 2022 by John Bull

[Aralim]

@John Bull, thanks for your detailed post above; I was searching for info on Gibraltar and this was perfect!. I'm on a Med sailing this summer with a stop in Gibraltar, and this is excellent information. I've seen a couple videos about the specific sights available in Gibraltar, enough to know that there are basically just a few things my wife and I really want to see: The "top of the rock" area (I guess this is what you referred to as The Pillars of Hercules?), the nature reserve/sky walk, and the St. Michael's cave. From your description, the cable car is actually the exact option we want given the short walking distance to the cave from the cable car. While I am mobility-limited, a 10-minute walk to the cave (or longer at a leisurely pace that's easier on my feet) and back is very doable for me. My limit measures around 2 miles in a day, rather than a few hundred feet, due to having one foot fused and a bit gimpy after multiple surgeries. It just gets painful after that long and I need to take some Advil and rest afterward.

 

I did see that it's not at all necessary to go to the official "Monkey Feeding" area to actually see plenty of the Barbary Macaques, since they're all over the place. So I'll be happy seeing whatever I see on my "partial" exploration and just breeze through the feeding area on the way to St. Michael's cave.

 

How long a walk is it from Casemate Square to the tram car? A post before yours said it's long, but if it's the same kind of 10-15 minutes I can deal with that at the start; especially if a cab can get me from port to square and back. And if I pre-purchase the tickets online, how long a wait can I expect before I actually get on a car and ride up?

 

Lastly, I did see ship excursions offered that visit all the main area by mini-bus / van, but I got the impression from their short (2-1/2 hour total time) that I'd be rushed through everything. From your post, sounds like that is incorrect and even 100% by foot it's only a few hours to explore everything? I don't particularly care about the WW II tunnels or Moorish Castle, but if it really is that short of a trip when vans are involved and it would spare my feet much of the walking, then I'll go back to looking at those options (as much as I want to ride the tram to the top).

[John Bull]

3 hours ago, Aralim said:

@John Bull, thanks for your detailed post above; I was searching for info on Gibraltar and this was perfect!. I'm on a Med sailing this summer with a stop in Gibraltar, and this is excellent information. I've seen a couple videos about the specific sights available in Gibraltar, enough to know that there are basically just a few things my wife and I really want to see: The "top of the rock" area (I guess this is what you referred to as The Pillars of Hercules?), the nature reserve/sky walk, and the St. Michael's cave. From your description, the cable car is actually the exact option we want given the short walking distance to the cave from the cable car. While I am mobility-limited, a 10-minute walk to the cave (or longer at a leisurely pace that's easier on my feet) and back is very doable for me. My limit measures around 2 miles in a day, rather than a few hundred feet, due to having one foot fused and a bit gimpy after multiple surgeries. It just gets painful after that long and I need to take some Advil and rest afterward.

 

I did see that it's not at all necessary to go to the official "Monkey Feeding" area to actually see plenty of the Barbary Macaques, since they're all over the place. So I'll be happy seeing whatever I see on my "partial" exploration and just breeze through the feeding area on the way to St. Michael's cave.

 

How long a walk is it from Casemate Square to the tram car? A post before yours said it's long, but if it's the same kind of 10-15 minutes I can deal with that at the start; especially if a cab can get me from port to square and back. And if I pre-purchase the tickets online, how long a wait can I expect before I actually get on a car and ride up?

 

Lastly, I did see ship excursions offered that visit all the main area by mini-bus / van, but I got the impression from their short (2-1/2 hour total time) that I'd be rushed through everything. From your post, sounds like that is incorrect and even 100% by foot it's only a few hours to explore everything? I don't particularly care about the WW II tunnels or Moorish Castle, but if it really is that short of a trip when vans are involved and it would spare my feet much of the walking, then I'll go back to looking at those options (as much as I want to ride the tram to the top).

 

The top of the Rock is imaginatively-named ........................ "The Top of the Rock". 😉

The "Pillars of Hercules" are the Rock of Gibraltar and, on the North African side of the Straits, Jebel Musa in Morocco.The Pillars of Hercules site in Gib  is so-called because it has a monument & views across to Jebel Musa.

It's only about halfway up the rock on the south-western side & not convenient to the cablecar. 

But since it's not the Top of the Rock I guess that doesn't matter - and you can see across to Morocco from elsewhere.

 

The skywalk and St Michael's Cave (and the apes' station) are reasonably convenient to the top cablecar station on the Top of the Rock. Furthest is St Michael's Cave, about 15 minutes walk, and the apes station & then the skywalk are en-route to the cave. It's not a flat road, but its not too steep.

 

To use the cablecar I suggest you take (probably be able to share) a taxi from the cruise terminal direct to the bottom cablecar station (it's about 1.7 miles, 35 minutes on foot). Do it pretty early. No guarantees, but if you're there before about 10am you'll be ahead of the hordes of day-trippers from the Spanish resorts. After that, lines can be long - and if your ship is in port only for the afternoon you'll need a re-think .

Folk have reported that buying cablecar tickets in advance doesn't give thenm priority in the line, so it seems a little pointless. In fact, counter-productive if you or your ship's plans change or if the cablecar isn't running due to too much wind.

 

I've never heard of lines to come down - quite a few walk down (rather them than me).

When you come back down, walk north & with the little Trafalgar cemetery on your right go through the South Gate to Main Street then down to Casemates Square. A level walk totalling a little less than a mile, about 18 minutes, but with pubs & cafes & a few public benches to take a break.

From Casemates Square it's about the same distance again to get back to your ship. If you don't fancy the walk, you'll find taxis & buses through the Water Gate in the the back left (north-west) corner of the Square.

 

Cablecar tickets include admission to the Reserve. I don't think they include admission to St Michael's Cave, but that's pennies.

Taxi/van tours (both ships' tours & those available outside the terminal) include admission to the Reserve, the cave, and the hand-hewn Great Siege Tunnels of 1779 (not the WW2 tunnels & not convenient to the cablecar) - where you also have great vertical views down to the airport & Spanish border. There's no fee at the Pillars of Hercules or the apes station.

Vans cant quite reach the very top - just mebbe 50 ft below - but between them the stops offer views in all directions.

The skywalk wasn't there last time we were in Gib., I don't know whether / how long vans stop there.

Van tours at the terminal are about 1hr 45, if the ship's tour is 2hrs 30 it will include something else - perhaps Europa Point or the 100-ton gun 

 

So there are pros & cons between cablecar & van tour. Vans are simpler and easier, & you see more. Cablecar allows you to do your own thing in your own time.

But no rush to make a decision. You might even want to wait & decide depending on energy levels, mood, and weather.

 

JB 🙂 

[Aralim]

5 minutes ago, John Bull said:

To use the cablecar I suggest you take (probably be able to share) a taxi from the cruise terminal direct to the bottom cablecar station (it's about 1.7 miles, 35 minutes on foot). Do it pretty early. No guarantees, but if you're there before about 10am you'll be ahead of the hordes of day-trippers from the Spanish resorts. After that, lines can be long - and if your ship is in port only for the afternoon you'll need a re-think .

 

I just re-checked, and we're in port from 7 AM to 5 PM, with no tendering. So getting out early and beating the crowd should definitely be workable.

 

Even better is that we have a sea day before and one after Gibraltar, so there will be time to rest up on either side. As we're in Barcelona before Gibraltar, that'll be especially important for me as we're looking at a full-day third-party private tour that includes Parc Guell and Sagrada Familia. That'll be a loooong day of walking and standing for me, and I'll definitely need the sea day before Gib. to recuperate. (and the one after Gib. to get ready for the 4-port-day marathon that finishes the cruise)

[Aralim]

18 minutes ago, John Bull said:

Cablecar tickets include admission to the Reserve. I don't think they include admission to St Michael's Cave, but that's pennies.

Forgot to say -- the description of the "Cable Car Return + Nature Reserve" ticket explicitly says:

 

"Nature Reserve includes access to: St Michael's Cave, Skywalk, Windsor Suspension Bridge, Great Siege Tunnels, City Under Siege Exhibition, Moorish Castle, 100 Ton Gun and various Footpaths within the Upper Rock Nature Reserve.Nature Reserve includes access to: St Michael's Cave, Skywalk, Windsor Suspension Bridge, Great Siege Tunnels, City Under Siege Exhibition, Moorish Castle, 100 Ton Gun and various Footpaths within the Upper Rock Nature Reserve."

 

So it sounds like it's all-inclusive.

 

And regarding any value in buying the tickets ahead of time, I just noticed that the very first footnote says that the tickets must be redeemed at the Cable Car ticket office before traveling on the cable car. So definitely no "skip the line" access. But I had seen a video where the person had pre-bought and there was a separate line for those cable car passengers, so maybe it's more of an "express line".

 

But that warning about the wind is good to know. Is wind worse at some times of year vs others? We'll be there during the last week of July.

[John Bull]

2 hours ago, Aralim said:

 

I just re-checked, and we're in port from 7 AM to 5 PM, with no tendering. So getting out early and beating the crowd should definitely be workable.

 

Even better is that we have a sea day before and one after Gibraltar, so there will be time to rest up on either side. As we're in Barcelona before Gibraltar, that'll be especially important for me as we're looking at a full-day third-party private tour that includes Parc Guell and Sagrada Familia. That'll be a loooong day of walking and standing for me, and I'll definitely need the sea day before Gib. to recuperate. (and the one after Gib. to get ready for the 4-port-day marathon that finishes the cruise)

 

 

That's all good.🙂

 

According to their website the cablecar starts daily at 9.30am- it might be worth checking closer to the day to see if it's any earlier - with a 9.30 start there might be a short line waiting for it to open.

The free shuttle from the Spanish border is no use to cruise passengers.

 

The "fast-track" is a bit ambiguous - just a separate line at the ticket office? Or also at the cablecar? I've read & re-read the website & I'm still none-the-wiser.🙄

 

And I'm none-the-wiser about admission fee to St Michael's Cave.

https://www.visitgibraltar.gi/see-and-do/nature-reserve-pass says that St Michael's Cave is  "included in Nature Reserve Fee".

But if says the same for the WW2 Tunnels and I know they're not included, so I checked their website, which confirms they're not included. https://gibraltar.com/en/travel/see-and-do/history-and-heritage/world-war-2-tunnels.php

Best take your credit card & perhaps some GBP or euros just in case.

That said I can find no mention of any general admission charge, only for special events (the main cavern is a concert hall).

 

As a general rule, late July is less likely to be windy than the shoulder seasons.

But Mother Nature doesn't always follow the rules. 🙃

If you take a taxi or van to the cablecar & find it's not operating, your driver is almost certain to suggest he can do the honours. And you will probably find other disappointed folk at the bottom station who are willing to share 🙂.

 

A sea-day after Gib then four port days in succession?

Portugal & Spain?

Or the Canary Islands?

 

JB 🙂

 

 

 

 

[Aralim]

9 hours ago, John Bull said:

A sea-day after Gib then four port days in succession?

Portugal & Spain?

Or the Canary Islands?

None of the above. 🙃

Marseilles, Genoa, Florence (Livorno), and disembark in Rome (with overnight stay and exploration before flight home)

 

And before Gibraltar we have 2 days pre-cruise in Athens. Then Santorini, sea day, Kotor, Messina (Sicily), Naples, sea day, and Barcelona.

 

Very packed schedule, definitely a bucket list level trip for us.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

[John Bull]

31 minutes ago, Aralim said:

None of the above. 🙃

Marseilles, Genoa, Florence (Livorno), and disembark in Rome (with overnight stay and exploration before flight home)

 

And before Gibraltar we have 2 days pre-cruise in Athens. Then Santorini, sea day, Kotor, Messina (Sicily), Naples, sea day, and Barcelona.

 

Very packed schedule, definitely a bucket list level trip for us.

 

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Oh - so your captain is too scared to go out into the Atlantic? 😃

 

Good itinerary, including a couple of places on my to-do list.

Santorini is a tender port for all cruise ships. Getting up to (and more especially back down from)  Fira town is crowded but there are ways to avoid the lines, just dial "Santorini" into the search box on the Greece ports forum.

Different transport options too for Florence and/or Pisa from Livorno - we did both in a day by train though we did no inside visits in Florence (churches & museums aren't our thing).

From Naples there are enough sightseeing options for a week, you'll have to prioritise.

 

Have a great cruise

 

JB 🙂

[Manchesterford]

Thanks so much to the OP for this, and of course to all of you who have kindly replied. I’m also considering booking this cruise for Mum and I but she too has some mobility issues, (more about avoiding steps or particularly long distances, or at least being able to rest for a few minutes if it is a longer walk). I was particularly thinking about Lisbon being potentially tricky as I seem to recall it being quite hilly, but if there’s a HOHO bus/tram I’m sure we will be fine.

 

Thanks once again!