Status of Black Sea itineraries

[FWFrog]

We are scheduled on a September Black Sea itinerary (Legend) so watching developments in the Black Sea area closely.  It seems likely that there will be significant modifications to itinerary even in the best case scenario.  

 

The first Windstar itinerary to that area is schedule to depart in just over 2 months.  Is anyone on one of these earlier cruises and hearing anything from Windstar about modifications to the ports of call?  Curious as to where they might pivot.

 

 

[Pudgesmom]

We were booked on the September cruise- with you I think! We have switched to another destination for a couple of reasons. 
1. we were most interested in Sochi and Odessa. If any are skipped/switched, those are the likely ones. 
2.  Half of our group has already done the Greek Isles and doesn’t want to return 

3. Between our one nervous Nellie traveler and a set of parents of a one year old, we decided to go somewhere else.

[FlyerTalker]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:16 AM, FWFrog said:

We are scheduled on a September Black Sea itinerary (Legend) so watching developments in the Black Sea area closely.  It seems likely that there will be significant modifications to itinerary even in the best case scenario.

 

I would say that in a "best case" scenario, everybody goes back to the way they were a few months ago.  There would be little reason to change anything at that point.

 

Now, will it go back to the status quo ante -- that's an entirely different question.

 

 

 

[FWFrog]

I would

On 2/20/2022 at 10:33 AM, FlyerTalker said:

 

I would say that in a "best case" scenario, everybody goes back to the way they were a few months ago.  There would be little reason to change anything at that point.

 

Now, will it go back to the status quo ante -- that's an entirely different question.

 

 

 

 I would like to think "best case" is back to the situation a few months ago.  However, I fear that may not be the case.   Because of my job, I have been on several briefings with security analysts and am hearing of more widespread anti-American sentiment and harassment in the region including detainments.  The embassy is operating at a reduced capacity.  What I have not clarified is whether this is also in places far from Moscow, like Sochi and neighboring ports with strong Russian ties.

 

I am sure that Windstar has a Plan B in the works.  I am anxious to hear whether I want to sail on their Plan B or reschedule to a different location for the 4th time!

 

Who would have guessed - we had one cancellation due to delay in the refurb, two COVID reschedules, and now possibly war?   Have we hit all of the bases?    🙂

[3kidslater]

We are also on this cruise (17days Athens-Istanbul).  Hoping that the situation improves and changes to the itinerary will not be necessary.  Like many WS cruisers we have also canceled or rescheduled 3 previous cruises (due to covid) Not much we can do but wait it out. 

[BklynBorn47]

We are also on that Legend cruise in September.  If the only problem is alternate ports to Odessa and Sochi (which I was considering skipping anyway for personal reasons), we will go. However, I've been watching a lot of pre WWII documentaries lately.  Sure don't want to get stuck in the middle of anything should history repeat itself even on a limited basis.

At this point we are just in "wait and see" mode and trusting that Windstar will have an alternate plan that will work for us.  

[Badger Dad]

A USA Today article published today states: "Small-ship cruise line Windstar Cruises has canceled all sailings and cruise tours in the Black Sea region and will replace calls in St. Petersburg for non-Russian ports in its Baltic itineraries."

[FlyerTalker]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:33 AM, FlyerTalker said:

Now, will it go back to the status quo ante -- that's an entirely different question.

 

Well, guess that's been answered.

 

And not the way that I would have hoped or preferred.

 

One thing to remember...any cancellation is for the benefit of the passengers and/or is a symbolic protest against Putin.  Russia exports half a BILLION dollars of oil a day, so this is in no way an economic hit to Russia as a whole.

 

Just a bit of reality.

[BklynBorn47]

14 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Well, guess that's been answered.

 

And not the way that I would have hoped or preferred.

 

One thing to remember...any cancellation is for the benefit of the passengers and/or is a symbolic protest against Putin.  Russia exports half a BILLION dollars of oil a day, so this is in no way an economic hit to Russia as a whole.

 

Just a bit of reality.

Unfortunately, "symbolic protest" is all I have other than donations to those helping refugees.  I understand that my perspective is different because of relatives in Slovakia and in the Baltic countries.  They well remember life under Russian occupation and have reason to be fearful.

I feel even symbolic protest, like relocating international sports events, is preferable to the world covering our eyes and pretending it's life as usual.  

The Sept Black Sea cruise is part of our collector so of course I am disappointed, but my disappointment is nothing compared to those in or near the line of fire and those Russians citizens bravely protesting Putin's war.  

[Strenz]

I think symbolic protests are valid because sometimes that is the only way one  can  express their individual values.  Our values are who we as individuals. I think it is important that a ship will/can  change itineraries due to safety first and a moral compass. There are more things that are important in this world than being on a cruise ship and  believe me I love being on the Surf. I think in this case, for

us, it is danger and values. Happy Sailing

[LJWECOC]

I was scheduled for a Black Sea cruise the last time the Russian thugs decided to invade the Ukraine and take over territory. The cruise line (Azamara) re-routed and we went further east , stopping at Trabzon, Turkey and Batumi, Georgia instead of the ports taken over by the Russians. Those ports were really quite interesting and off the beaten track.

 

Baltic cruises skipping St Petersburg...now that is really sad! The sights are amazing. Russian tour guides, not so much.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

I have nothing against symbolic actions. To the contrary - they do carry moral weight.  Mostly, I wanted folks not to think that this is in any way hurting the Russian economy.

[FWFrog]

Has anyone booked on Black Sea itineraries heard from Windstar?  I have not and also do not see new itineraries for the Star Legend (Sept) or Star Pride (Apr) that are currently scheduled in this region.

 

Please share if you hear.  Much appreciated.

[BklynBorn47]

18 hours ago, FWFrog said:

Has anyone booked on Black Sea itineraries heard from Windstar?  I have not and also do not see new itineraries for the Star Legend (Sept) or Star Pride (Apr) that are currently scheduled in this region.

 

Please share if you hear.  Much appreciated.

We are booked on the Legend in Sept - Athens to Istanbul followed by round trip Ist-Ist Black Sea ports.
We called yesterday to book an additional leg before Athens (Barcelona- Athens) which obviously requires changing our flight & hotel reservations.  
I had already decided pre-invasion not to get off the ship in Sochi.  I was told that WS is working on an alternate itinerary.  I told them I was flexible and would accept whatever alternatives were provided.

[FlyerTalker]

22 hours ago, FWFrog said:

Has anyone booked on Black Sea itineraries heard from Windstar?  I have not and also do not see new itineraries for the Star Legend (Sept) or Star Pride (Apr) that are currently scheduled in this region.

 

Please share if you hear.  Much appreciated.

 

Well, if you click on the big red banner on the top of the Windstar homepage, you will go to the following message (dated Feb 25):

 

 

In response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, luxury small-ship cruise line Windstar Cruises has cancelled all sailings and cruise tours in the Black Sea region and will change its Baltic itineraries to replace calls in St. Petersburg, Russia with calls in a non-Russian port. Guests and travel advisors will be notified of the changes.

Windstar's Black Sea Sights & Turkish Delights sailing was scheduled to take place on two dates in 2022 (in May and September), with calls on Odessa, Ukraine and Sochi, Russia among other Black Sea ports. Both dates will be modified for this year with a new round trip Istanbul itinerary featuring Greece and Turkey will be shared as soon as ports are confirmed.

 

 

[milepig]

On 2/8/2022 at 1:00 AM, Stickman1990 said:

Just watch out the connections are actually both at the same airport - I’ve seen JAL flight connections that required movement between Narita and Haneda which could be very difficult in the present environment 

 

On 3/2/2022 at 6:49 AM, BklynBorn47 said:

We are booked on the Legend in Sept - Athens to Istanbul followed by round trip Ist-Ist Black Sea ports.
We called yesterday to book an additional leg before Athens (Barcelona- Athens) which obviously requires changing our flight & hotel reservations.  
I had already decided pre-invasion not to get off the ship in Sochi.  I was told that WS is working on an alternate itinerary.  I told them I was flexible and would accept whatever alternatives were provided.

It may all be moot - but does WS know of your plan to disembark at Sochi? Sometimes this is possible and sometimes it is not and the last I know WS wasn't allowing any deviations from the schedule. A few years ago we accomplished this in Mumbai, but it involved WS getting permission for the port agent and was by no means a slam dunk. Not all ports have immigration facilities that would even allow this.

[BklynBorn47]

21 minutes ago, milepig said:

 

It may all be moot - but does WS know of your plan to disembark at Sochi? Sometimes this is possible and sometimes it is not and the last I know WS wasn't allowing any deviations from the schedule. A few years ago we accomplished this in Mumbai, but it involved WS getting permission for the port agent and was by no means a slam dunk. Not all ports have immigration facilities that would even allow this.

I think you misunderstood my post.  I was NOT going to disembark in Sochi even when it was part of the itinerary.  By "flexible" I meant that I have no problem with whatever ports they substitute for Sochi. 

[milepig]

2 hours ago, BklynBorn47 said:

I think you misunderstood my post.  I was NOT going to disembark in Sochi even when it was part of the itinerary.  By "flexible" I meant that I have no problem with whatever ports they substitute for Sochi. 

Sorry, I missed the word "not".

[FWFrog]

Tonight we received an email from WS notifying us of the change in itinerary and offering $500 shipboard credit to remain on the cruise. Our current itinerary is a Star Collector which is essentially two back-to-back cruises.  The Black Sea itinerary is the second week.  Unfortunately, the new itinerary (2nd week) is essentially the same ports as the first week.  This is a little disappointing - hoping they will permit us to transfer everything over to another itinerary.  We have future cruise credit applied to this cruise (based on our previously paid deposits) and other perks from the specials that applied when we booked.  Anyone else have this experience?

[BklynBorn47]

9 hours ago, FWFrog said:

Tonight we received an email from WS notifying us of the change in itinerary and offering $500 shipboard credit to remain on the cruise. Our current itinerary is a Star Collector which is essentially two back-to-back cruises.  The Black Sea itinerary is the second week.  Unfortunately, the new itinerary (2nd week) is essentially the same ports as the first week.  This is a little disappointing - hoping they will permit us to transfer everything over to another itinerary.  We have future cruise credit applied to this cruise (based on our previously paid deposits) and other perks from the specials that applied when we booked.  Anyone else have this experience?

Oh yes, we are in that "same boat" so to speak.  I expected this so last week we added an additional leg (Barcelona-Athens) to precede the 1st leg of the collector.  I was hoping that the itinerary changes would include different ports (like the route to Haifa).  Then we would have stayed for the entire 3 legs (26 days).  Now we will cancel.  No other choice.  We paid by cc so that $ plus the excursions already booked will show up eventually.

 

The next problem for us is dealing with Windstar's air department.   Waiting for a "call back from a supervisor" for 3 days now.  After they booked us on the wrong dates (arriving after the ship had sailed) TWICE, we added the 3rd cruise (an additional 20K) and the only choice they gave us from Washington to Barcelona was via Istanbul (18 hours!) There are dozens of options of 8 to 10 hours for about the same price.  I don't get it.  We have always booked air and hotel with the cruise line (RC, NCL, Celebrity, river cruises) Never a problem.  This is just plain weird!  
 

[FlyerTalker]

4 hours ago, BklynBorn47 said:

the only choice they gave us from Washington to Barcelona was via Istanbul (18 hours!) There are dozens of options of 8 to 10 hours for about the same price.  I don't get it.  We have always booked air and hotel with the cruise line (RC, NCL, Celebrity, river cruises) Never a problem.  This is just plain weird! 

 

Not "weird" at all if you understand what happens when you buy air from the cruiseline rather than directly from the carrier.  I posted this to a thread on the Silversea board, as folks were complaining about not getting the flights they wanted:

 

-=-=-=-=-=

 

Correct answer is - when you buy air from the cruiseline, you are getting what is available to them THROUGH THEIR NEGOTIATED CONTRACT.  That is not the same as buying from the inventory made available to the general public.  Two totally separate and different things.  So even if you see DL flights that you like, you may not get them, unless they are covered by the contract.

 

Simple rule:  If there are carriers that you will or will not want to fly on, if there are routings that you will or not will want to fly on, if there is equipment that you will or will not fly on -- buy the ticket direct from the airline.  No cruiseline will guarantee that you get what you want, or even your second choice.

 

Yes, there have been many cases where folks got exactly what they wanted from the cruiseline.  Guess why - because it was covered by the negotiated contract.  And there are many cases where folks can't get what they want - because it wasn't covered in the contract.

 

Hard reality.  Take away from this that what you see as a customer buying directly from the airline is a different reality from what the cruiseline has available to sell to the customer.  And at what price.

 

-=-=-=-=-=

 

Also, a couple of other thoughts.  Your disparagement over going through IST is misplaced.  There is more to a trip than just the amount of time onboard.  Turkish is a first rate airline.  The new IST airport is superb.  And Turkish does some nice things for connecting passengers.  Depending on the length of your connection, they may provide either free tours of Istanbul or free hotel rooms for your use.  And if flying in business, the Turkish lounge is renowned for the service and food they provide.

 

There are many many airports that would fall below IST as a place where I would want to connect.

 

 

 

 

[BklynBorn47]

46 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Not "weird" at all if you understand what happens when you buy air from the cruiseline rather than directly from the carrier.  I posted this to a thread on the Silversea board, as folks were complaining about not getting the flights they wanted:

 

-=-=-=-=-=

 

Correct answer is - when you buy air from the cruiseline, you are getting what is available to them THROUGH THEIR NEGOTIATED CONTRACT.  That is not the same as buying from the inventory made available to the general public.  Two totally separate and different things.  So even if you see DL flights that you like, you may not get them, unless they are covered by the contract.

 

Simple rule:  If there are carriers that you will or will not want to fly on, if there are routings that you will or not will want to fly on, if there is equipment that you will or will not fly on -- buy the ticket direct from the airline.  No cruiseline will guarantee that you get what you want, or even your second choice.

 

Yes, there have been many cases where folks got exactly what they wanted from the cruiseline.  Guess why - because it was covered by the negotiated contract.  And there are many cases where folks can't get what they want - because it wasn't covered in the contract.

 

Hard reality.  Take away from this that what you see as a customer buying directly from the airline is a different reality from what the cruiseline has available to sell to the customer.  And at what price.

 

-=-=-=-=-=

 

Also, a couple of other thoughts.  Your disparagement over going through IST is misplaced.  There is more to a trip than just the amount of time onboard.  Turkish is a first rate airline.  The new IST airport is superb.  And Turkish does some nice things for connecting passengers.  Depending on the length of your connection, they may provide either free tours of Istanbul or free hotel rooms for your use.  And if flying in business, the Turkish lounge is renowned for the service and food they provide.

 

There are many many airports that would fall below IST as a place where I would want to connect.

 

 

 

 

No disparagement of Turkish airline or Istanbul intended.  We have traveled there before. We were fine having the flights scheduled with them on our original booking, (Dulles to Athens & Istanbul to Dulles, but substituting an 18 hour flight which included 2 hours sitting in IST airport where we fly over Barcelona to Istanbul, sit in the airport and back to Barcelona is unacceptable. Note that a new flight itinerary was only necessary because we had booked an additional leg with Windstar adding another 20K. 

Don't forget that the 18 hour flight they booked was on the WRONG date, having us arrive in Barcelona after the ship had already left.  

We are always very flexible as to airline and flight times. We always book our flights through the cruise company so we have flown all kinds of airlines without complaint, but come on already.  Unless Turkish airline is the only contract Windstar has, there had to be a better option than that.

Bottom line - all is well.  They had to cancel our airfare because there is no longer a cruise.

Lesson learned.  Still looking forward to the 2 legs we do have booked and staying in Istanbul on our own after disembarking leg 2.  As I said, we like Istanbul.  

 

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, BklynBorn47 said:

We are always very flexible as to airline and flight times. We always book our flights through the cruise company so we have flown all kinds of airlines without complaint, but come on already.  Unless Turkish airline is the only contract Windstar has, there had to be a better option than that

 

It may very well be the only airline contract where there is inventory available.  Remember that inventory available under a negotiated contract is NOT the same as the inventory available to the general public buying direct from the airline.

 

Or are you saying that Windstar has other inventory available, but they are being mean about it and not giving it to you?

[BklynBorn47]

3 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

It may very well be the only airline contract where there is inventory available.  Remember that inventory available under a negotiated contract is NOT the same as the inventory available to the general public buying direct from the airline.

 

Or are you saying that Windstar has other inventory available, but they are being mean about it and not giving it to you?

All I'm saying is that they booked the wrong date TWICE and my inquiries have been met with silence.  They have given me no indication whether there is another option or not. 
 

However, I will give them a pass right now since they have more to deal with then my flight, especially since the situation is now moot. There is no cruise to hang the flight onto any longer.
Perhaps the added problems they are facing have caused them to be distracted enough to schedule us for flights and hotel on dates after the ship has sailed.  
 

Thank you for the heads up, however.  It is possible that a small company like Windstar only has one airline contract for the Mediterranean.  Since I never encountered a situation like this in our 43 cruises, that never occurred to me.  Thank you again.  Lesson learned. 

[milepig]

In my experience, Turkish is pretty hopeless on the ground, but world class in the air. The longer flight times hurt when there are so many options to Barcelona. A big reason we never book with WS, I want what I want, and am frequently booking coach and upgrading with miles. I did have a similar situation with Silversea, travel to Singapore they only offered a convoluted schedule in United when ANA had a significantly shorter route for half the price when compared to United. I would have taken that in a shot, as ANA is an amazing airline, but it wasn’t offered. Now also moot as that cruise was also cancelled. 
 

as an aside, LOT Polish is also a hidden treasure. Nice planes, amazing service, easy airport to transit. Half the price, I often use them for Europe. Awful on the ground, great in the air. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by milepig