Sailing as an unvaccinated passenger

[kpgibbs]

9 hours ago, pcur said:

Interesting discussion ................

 

I just got off a b2b on the Vision.  The passengers on board no longer wore "vaccination wristbands", and masking was voluntary for VACCINATED passengers. All children under 5 were wearing masks.  There were a few venues that were for vaccinated only passengers.  

 

We did stop in St. Lucia, which is strict about it's COVID protocols.  Shore excursions were only allowed through the cruise ships, and I took one to see the whole island.  I noticed as we came back to the ship there were a lot of passengers walking around the local area near the dock.  So, I don't think everyone took the "stay inside the terminal / port shopping area, please" very seriously.  However, at all our ports passengers were wearing masks where required:  in the terminal, on the dock, and in virtually all indoor businesses in port.

 

Social distancing was not done by most passengers, and elevators were sometimes packed.

 

So, things were pretty relaxed on both cruises.

 

The crew wore masks if they were in work areas around a lot of passengers. Most food in the Windjammer was plated for you by the crew.

 

The interesting part was I wore a mask everywhere unless I was eating or dinking.  This is to keep my exposure minimal for my family, 4 yo grandson, and a friend with an immune-compromised son. Lots of passengers noticed my masks, but no one said anything.  

 

I tested negative yesterday, 2 days after getting home.

 

To summarize:  people are pretty relaxed around the ship, and unless RCCL makes a point of identifying a non-vaccinated passenger, it would be hard to notice.  BUT, I think this is because we all knew the ship was 95% + vaccinated.

OK, so I'm confused.  I thought ALL cruise lines and ALL ports were requiring vaccinations.  Maybe I'm wrong?  Or am I just assuming this?  You all know what assuming does!

[Cigar King]

10 hours ago, 7680 said:

I have been dealing with a very challenging situation in trying to book a trip for my husband and I, our two young adult children and their significant others. Our son’s GF is not vaccinated. The rest of us are. Our son will not get a booster, as he was very ill after both vaccines.

I would either drop both of them or ask them to come up with options that support their choices.  Why make this your problem?

[Biker19]

41 minutes ago, kpgibbs said:

Maybe I'm wrong? 

Vaccinations requirements vary by line, port, customer age and in time.

[7680]

Hello All,

 

I posted this same question on the Celebrity forum. This was most of my response to the feedback received:

 

 

Thank you for the many who have provided constructive feedback. MBP1’s post re the FL law which would not allow cruise lines to require vaccines, but is now blocked (with ongoing legal battles) is where my question originated from. I saw another post alluding to this, but it did not state that it was currently blocked. Yes, it is challenging to be 💯 sure of every detail of what is transpiring at any given time. We just returned from a fantastic cruise on the Edge with two other couples. All vaccinated of course. I have been dealing with a very challenging situation in trying to book a trip for my husband and I, our two young adult children and their significant others. Our son’s GF is not vaccinated. The rest of us are. Our son will not get a booster, as he was very ill after both vaccines. ‘Our first choice was to go to the Med….but boosters are required in Spain and France. I am spending a great deal of time, trying to come up with a happy solution for all. 
 

Thanks!

[7680]

By the way, we will go with the 5 of us, if we decide on the cruise route 😊

[CruiseLover15]

I was told by RC 2 weeks ago they were going to update their COVID policy again in April.  

[Jasukkie]

Cruising is a business, not a free society. There are all sorts of rules and regulations regarding who can sail. First and foremost should be health and safety of crew and passengers. 

[CatLadyFemme]

3 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

So, when people who are triple vaccinated contract Covid, what is the point of the vaccination requirement?  

 

I mean if it only means you likely won’t die if you get it, when you likely won’t die if you do get it anyway, I mean what is the point?  

 

I am triple Pfizer vaccinated, am considering getting another booster  at some point, but I can’t tell count the number of people whom I know, personally, who have gotten covid after being vaccinated.

 

The point is that it significantly reduces the likeliness of hospitalization and death, even if you get it. For a ship that isn’t always in port, having a lower potential of having passengers need medical evacuation is a big deal, and having folks be much less likely to die is good not just for their wallets but also their brand and crew morale.

[topnole]

2 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

My wife, a registered nurse, did CPR along with a doctor on a ship excursion in Greece in 2000.  The poor lady died.  People die on cruises.  They always will.  Should we exclude people who have heart disease to improve crew morale?

 

I get that there are rules.  We don’t exclude the unvaccinated in restaurants, because apparently they are not dangerous when they are sitting at a table eating.  We don’t exclude them from theme parks.  We don’t exclude them from theatres.  We don’t exclude them from hotels.  We don’t exclude them from airplanes.  We don’t exclude them from buses, trains, and even Ubers.  What is so dangerous about the cruise ship environment that to consider allowing them to enter is considered to be outrageous?  How about we exclude them from Transatlantics where they might be at sea for many days?  I could sort of see the justification for that, but the rest of this just strikes me as a laughable excuse to deny reality.

 

I am done here on this thread.  Nobody seems capable of seeing another point of view beyond their own.

Well.  I agree with you.  So you have at least one!

[time4u2go]

6 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

We don’t exclude the unvaccinated in restaurants, because apparently they are not dangerous when they are sitting at a table eating.  We don’t exclude them from theme parks.  We don’t exclude them from theatres.  We don’t exclude them from hotels.  We don’t exclude them from airplanes.  We don’t exclude them from buses, trains, and even Ubers.  

The difference is, in EVERY SINGLE ONE of those locations, they are within a few hours of significant medical care, should it be needed.

[hotwheels920]

18 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

My wife, a registered nurse, did CPR along with a doctor on a ship excursion in Greece in 2000.  The poor lady died.  People die on cruises.  They always will.  Should we exclude people who have heart disease to improve crew morale?

 

I get that there are rules.  We don’t exclude the unvaccinated in restaurants, because apparently they are not dangerous when they are sitting at a table eating.  We don’t exclude them from theme parks.  We don’t exclude them from theatres.  We don’t exclude them from hotels.  We don’t exclude them from airplanes.  We don’t exclude them from buses, trains, and even Ubers.  What is so dangerous about the cruise ship environment that to consider allowing them to enter is considered to be outrageous?  How about we exclude them from Transatlantics where they might be at sea for many days?  I could sort of see the justification for that, but the rest of this just strikes me as a laughable excuse to deny reality.

 

I am done here on this thread.  Nobody seems capable of seeing another point of view beyond their own.

I think the biggest difference is the islands RCI sails to do not have high vax rates and it is their countries' decisions to make the requirement.

If the Bahamas tells Americans entering their country that the American needs to be vexed, it's their choice.  

 

[topnole]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

The difference is, in EVERY SINGLE ONE of those locations, they are within a few hours of significant medical care, should it be needed.

This comment isn’t really on target.  Hospitalization is a lagging variable and that is because after exposure it usually takes several days for infection and symptoms to show up.  After that, health may deteriorate, but it isn’t something like an appendicitis or heart attack where one needs to be rushed to the hospital minutes or hours after experiencing symptoms.  Covid is more gradual. If one feels off, and tests positive, it is likely we would measure in days (not hours) before they end up in a hospital. 
 

I can’t imagine a scenario where cruise lines view this as even close to a primary concern.  Their concern is simply stopping spread onboard and avoiding bad PR like a couple years ago.  Sadly many people die on cruises every week. They aren’t implementing vax policy at the rare off chance that someone gets a bad case of Covid and can’t be treated on board.  Bad medical events happen on cruises all the time and they know how to deal with them (medical evacuations, etc.). 

[topnole]

2 minutes ago, hotwheels920 said:

I think the biggest difference is the islands RCI sails to do not have high vax rates and it is their countries' decisions to make the requirement.

If the Bahamas tells Americans entering their country that the American needs to be vexed, it's their choice.  

 

Do the Bahamas require vaccination now?   I think i just saw unvaccinated kids can get off the ships in the Bahamas?

[Agathabumble]

23 minutes ago, topnole said:

Well.  I agree with you.  So you have at least one!

Make that two 👍

[red4lisa]

6 minutes ago, Agathabumble said:

Make that two 👍

Make that three!!!

[skywonder]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:26 PM, 7680 said:

We have one person in our party of six who is unvaccinated. I see that you may do cruises from FL without a vaccine (as long as there is not a stop in Bahamas). Wondering what the on-board experience is like, from anyone who may have sailed in this manner. Thank you 

Hopefully they remove the jab restriction soon.

[CatLadyFemme]

44 minutes ago, xpcdoojk said:

My wife, a registered nurse, did CPR along with a doctor on a ship excursion in Greece in 2000.  The poor lady died.  People die on cruises.  They always will.  Should we exclude people who have heart disease to improve crew morale?

 

I get that there are rules.  We don’t exclude the unvaccinated in restaurants, because apparently they are not dangerous when they are sitting at a table eating.  We don’t exclude them from theme parks.  We don’t exclude them from theatres.  We don’t exclude them from hotels.  We don’t exclude them from airplanes.  We don’t exclude them from buses, trains, and even Ubers.  What is so dangerous about the cruise ship environment that to consider allowing them to enter is considered to be outrageous?  How about we exclude them from Transatlantics where they might be at sea for many days?  I could sort of see the justification for that, but the rest of this just strikes me as a laughable excuse to deny reality.

 

I am done here on this thread.  Nobody seems capable of seeing another point of view beyond their own.

Deleted. Don’t have the spoons to argue.

Edited March 31, 2022 by CatLadyFemme

[topnole]

9 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

As always JC you echo my thoughts perfectly.  I'm vaxxed and boosted but this irrational fear of the unvaxxed is mental.  With the science clearly demonstrating that vaxxed can both get and transmit the virus, contrary to what we were told early on,  everybody just need to mind there own business and get on with life.  The nanny state is out of control.  

 

If were not careful the USA will become Canada and we definitely don't want that. 😹

Add to this that most unvaccinated have probably had Covid by now.   So a large % of the unvaccinated have similar immunity as vaccinated individuals.  This is the case for my kids who now have natural protection.  I am vaccinated and boosted, but still got Covid a couple months after that.   Combine that with my wife and kids all getting covid too and I can tell you any worry is erased and it is liberating.   I can’t wait for my upcoming cruise I’m not worried about anyone else’s vaccination statues or masks.  

Edited March 31, 2022 by topnole

[hotwheels920]

26 minutes ago, topnole said:

Do the Bahamas require vaccination now?   I think i just saw unvaccinated kids can get off the ships in the Bahamas?

No idea.  but they have the vax rule, so Royal is doing the vax thing.  I just don't agree with his comment that we are discriminating against people when it isn't up to Royal, CDC, US government.  It's the countries we sail to.

Meh, to each their own though.  I'm just happy to be on the sea again, I'll jump through a hoop or 5 to get on board.  🙂

[LGW59]

47 minutes ago, topnole said:

There is nothing wrong with a discussion.  This hasn’t turned ugly.  Just a polite “I’m checking out” comment” which to me was quite polite.  

Note that I was not quoting anyone, I added to the "discussion" and what I said is true, you've been on here long enough to see these types of threads go off the rails and get shut down.  

[easyqueasy]

5 hours ago, SeattleAl said:

Yes, they can get Covid, but are unlikely to get seriously ill. My daughter works in the second busiest emergency department in Washington state. Since vaccinations, she has never had to admit or ventilate a patient with Covid who was vaccinated, but plenty who were not. Cruise ships do not have the means to treat Covid patients who need serious medical intervention and, thus, want everyone vaccinated, so that if they do get sick it is highly unlikely it will serious.  That makes perfect sense.

So unlikely means there’s still a chance they can get seriously ill and should stay off the ship? Also, there are many therapeutics for COVID other than get vaccinated or be ventilated outcome. Lucky she’s never had to admit a vaccinated patient, but my nurse friends have. And I personally think doctors are quicker to admit an unvaccinated vs vaccinated because they probably still see COVID as highly probable death sentence for the unvaccinated if they don’t monitor them in the hospital. 

[MommaBear55]

12 minutes ago, easyqueasy said:

So unlikely means there’s still a chance they can get seriously ill and should stay off the ship? Also, there are many therapeutics for COVID other than get vaccinated or be ventilated outcome. Lucky she’s never had to admit a vaccinated patient, but my nurse friends have. And I personally think doctors are quicker to admit an unvaccinated vs vaccinated because they probably still see COVID as highly probable death sentence for the unvaccinated if they don’t monitor them in the hospital. 

There are specific criteria we follow to decide to admit, which include age, comorbidities, risk factors. The insurance companies in the US don't allow us to admit without specific documentation. One of those risk factors is being unvaccinated, so yes, we admit those patients more quickly. 

[TennisCruiser62]

9 hours ago, SRF said:

 

FYI, there still hotels in the world that charge extra for a second person.

 

I even ran into that in Reno.

Hotels in Japan often charge per person, not per room!

[pcur]

9 hours ago, kpgibbs said:

OK, so I'm confused.  I thought ALL cruise lines and ALL ports were requiring vaccinations.  Maybe I'm wrong?  Or am I just assuming this?  You all know what assuming does!

Some adults CANNOT be vaccinated for health reasons, and can apply for a "vaccine accommodation".  

 

None of the ports I visited in the 3 weeks on the Vision required proof of vaccination, but they DID require masks be worn on the dock, in the terminal buildings, and inside businesses.  RCCL won't let you off the ship if you aren't wearing a mask.

[cured]

4 hours ago, xpcdoojk said:

I am all in favor of pre cruise and would add in cruise testing.  I don’t want someone who is actively sick potentially infecting people.

 

That said….  We have to return to normal.  We can not continue to “criminalize” and exclude people who disagree with our choices.  

 

I think we all agree that to exclude people based on their beliefs is not right.  

 

I have had multiple employees in the last 6 months who were vaccinated and boosted and some who had the shots plus having the infection still get Covid.  There is no justification to punish people for their beliefs and treat them as third class citizens.  

 

Covid will likely be with us forever, are you all ok with people never getting to go on a cruise again?  All I have to say is wow.  What else do you feel justifying in denying your fellow citizens?

Nobody is being excluded for beliefs. Religion is a belief. Politics is a belief. The scientific data behind vaccines is not a moral or religious belief, although it can be defined as an open belief.  An open belief in that in order for the scientific method to work, other scientists must review, scrutinize, and concur, which is the premise of the peer reviewed scientific journals. So no, nobody is being excluded by their beliefs, they are being excluded by the scientific open belief, the peer reviewed belief, that vaccines prevent serious illness.  

 

Vaccination requirements for travel is not new to covid nor unusual.  The YellowCard or Carte Juene was much more common for travel years ago when small pox and polio were in the vaccination infancy. However, there are still countries such as the Philippines that require the YellowCard to enter. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by cured