How are Covid cases on NCL ships?

[FM]

1 hour ago, dman07 said:

Returned from Breakaway May 8-15 sailing and tested positive yesterday. A group of people I met are also testing positive too. 
 

my symptoms are COVID tongue, sore throat, chills, headache 

 

Sorry to hear about that. Noticed you are from Canada so it is fortunate that you were able to get back home ... and without worrying about being hospitalized in the US if needed.

[mking8288]

A picture is worth a thousand words. MCT Pier 88 - Sunday, May 8th, 2022 around 11:40 am -frail & elderly passengers waiting to board the Norwegian Joy was doing their share … others, 😳 see for yourselves & decide.

[JimVB]

This thread has been quite helpful.  I fear anecdotal evidence is the best we will have.  There is clearly an elevated risk of illness and/or disruption on a cruise or any other form of international travel.  We each have to decide what our own risk tolerance is.  I tested positive two days after my first flight after the mask repeal.  Ironically, it was also two days before the date of a cruise that I had previously cancelled for non-covid reasons.

[styles27]

8 hours ago, dcipjr said:

And I hit the “jackpot” this morning. I tested negative on Sunday and Monday, but woke up with a fever and aches this morning, and a cough. 
 

Positive. 
 

I was as careful as could be onboard—masking in crowded areas that I didn’t avoid entirely, didn’t set foot in an elevator, talked to people mostly outside. Didn’t help. 
 

At this point I just feel fortunate that I didn’t get sick onboard. 
 

But still, if I took all these precautions and still got it, that kind of says something about how safe ships are at this point. 

Feel better!!!
That’s how we felt when we tested positive.

I guess the one positive is now we have some extra immunity. 🤞
 

[styles27]

21 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

A picture is worth a thousand words. MCT Pier 88 - Sunday, May 8th, 2022 around 11:40 am -frail & elderly passengers waiting to board the Norwegian Joy was doing their share … others, 😳 see for yourselves & decide.

I have to say Boston looked worse than that on 4/15. Not sure if I took a picture or not I’ll have to go back and look.
But I went to use the ladies room which was near the Haven pre boarding area and about 50 people were packed inside this little partitioned off room just to get the free drink and snack🤔. 
People never cease to amaze me. Pay thousands of dollars to cruise but God forbid they miss out on the free snacks before boarding. lol

 

We were in a suite, waited in the main area and were on the ship by 12:10pm exactly 10 min after the announcement was made that Haven and then Suite guests could start boarding. 

[kylenyc]

45 minutes ago, mking8288 said:

A picture is worth a thousand words. MCT Pier 88 - Sunday, May 8th, 2022 around 11:40 am -frail & elderly passengers waiting to board the Norwegian Joy was doing their share … others, 😳 see for yourselves & decide.

It is. Thanks for the pictures. Disheartening.

Edited May 17, 2022 by kylenyc

[booklady26]

My husband & I were also on the Breakaway 5/8-5/15. I woke up yesterday (Monday) feeling pretty lousy and hubby had a runny nose and cough. We took tests this morning and we're both positive. We're vaxed and boosted so we're not overly concerned. 

 

We've taken 3 cruises since November on Celebrity & Princess. Masks were not required on any of them. Crew were always sanitizing surfaces all over the ship, even in elevators. NCL's idea of keeping things clean were having the washy-washy ladies outside of the Garden Cafe that half the people ignored anyway. Very often tables were not even wiped clean after people left. I often had to take an extra napkin to wipe it before sitting down. NCL did not do a good job of keeping passengers safe. By the way, we commented on this to each other during the cruise long before we felt the first sniffle and laughed about coming home sick. Ha-ha!

[hawkeyetlse]

3 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

While the onboard caseload is below the Red threshold, clearly, it is not taking into account passenger positivity 3-4 days from Debarkation.

Orange and Red is the same threshold of 0.3%, red means that there is sustained transmission (not clear how they determine that, but the fact that all of the passengers disembark and are replaced by fresh passengers every 7-10 days probably keeps most cruise ships out of this category). Most ships are sailing with maybe 2000 passengers and crew total max, so just 6 identified cases is enough to put the ship into orange/red. On my Star sailing an employee told me there were 40 crew members in isolation! So I don’t find the CDC’s colors all that useful or enlightening, because basically every ship is orange, but that can mean 10 cases or 500 cases.

[CrazyTrain2]

4 minutes ago, hawkeyetlse said:

Orange and Red is the same threshold of 0.3%, red means that there is sustained transmission (not clear how they determine that, but the fact that all of the passengers disembark and are replaced by fresh passengers every 7-10 days probably keeps most cruise ships out of this category). Most ships are sailing with maybe 2000 passengers and crew total max, so just 6 identified cases is enough to put the ship into orange/red. On my Star sailing an employee told me there were 40 crew members in isolation! So I don’t find the CDC’s colors all that useful or enlightening, because basically every ship is orange, but that can mean 10 cases or 500 cases.

It's unlikely you will see a ship in Red.  It would require the medical staff reporting an overrun condition.

 

[cfelbab]

1 hour ago, hawkeyetlse said:

Orange and Red is the same threshold of 0.3%, red means that there is sustained transmission (not clear how they determine that, but the fact that all of the passengers disembark and are replaced by fresh passengers every 7-10 days probably keeps most cruise ships out of this category). Most ships are sailing with maybe 2000 passengers and crew total max, so just 6 identified cases is enough to put the ship into orange/red. On my Star sailing an employee told me there were 40 crew members in isolation! So I don’t find the CDC’s colors all that useful or enlightening, because basically every ship is orange, but that can mean 10 cases or 500 cases.

 

In general I feel like the thresholds set by the CDC with respect to COVID are not reflective of the current state of the disease. This is not the same disease as it was two years ago and if it only takes 6 cases on a boat of 2000 people to trigger orange, that seems silly. I feel the same way about the metrics determining if a region of the US is in "high transmission". As the mortality rate of COVID appears to continue to fall, I would think that the thresholds that trigger alarm should also adjust but they do not appear to be doing that.

 

FWIW, I got off the Encore in early May, I've been on 6 airplane flights since then and attended a business conference last week with over a thousand people. Essentially "pre-COVID normal" activities.. I've taken multiple COVID tests and each one has come back negative. And yet people who I know that are hyper careful at work and elsewhere and are double masked and not willing to venture near an airport or cruise ship are coming down with COVID. COVID seems to go where it wants to go no matter what we do.

 

If that's the case, we might as well get on with life. For me that means, staying current on vaccinations. Maintaining distance where I can. Occasionally masking especially in those situations where there is a lot of density or where I am around people who are vulnerable or anxious.. But not hunkering down at home anymore. To be clear, I'm not in a high risk category so for me it's risk/reward. A year ago the risk seemed much higher and at that point I canceled all my trips including two cruises. Today the risk appears to be manageable and the reward of travel is to me pretty high. I'm not getting any younger so waiting until there is zero risk might mean lot of missed opportunity.

 

I don't think we're going to get good info from the cruise lines on the number cases on their boats anymore than I think we are get good info in the general community anymore. Maybe we have to assume that we are going to encounter COVID somewhere and protect ourselves appropriate to our health status. It feels to me that the risk of COVID encounter is high at work, in the local community and while on vacation so it's sort of a wash. The disruption factor of COVID while on vacation is obviously higher in that I may be quarantined or what not but that does not to me seem like enough a reason to avoid travel. Again, your mileage may vary and that's perfectly okay.

 

 

[BlushPell]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:51 PM, drevil0208 said:

 

3 hours ago, styles27 said:

I have to say Boston looked worse than that on 4/15. Not sure if I took a picture or not I’ll have to go back and look.
But I went to use the ladies room which was near the Haven pre boarding area and about 50 people were packed inside this little partitioned off room just to get the free drink and snack🤔. 
People never cease to amaze me. Pay thousands of dollars to cruise but God forbid they miss out on the free snacks before boarding. lol

 

We were in a suite, waited in the main area and were on the ship by 12:10pm exactly 10 min after the announcement was made that Haven and then Suite guests could start boarding. 

Yes my Boston cruise April 8 was packed for 3.5 hours shoulder to shoulder. Much worse than this photo is. I wish I had gotten a photo of it. I wore a mask the entire time in the terminal but there was absolutely no social distancing for the 3.5 hours we waited. NCL only took temperatures at the last minute before boarding which made no sense to me at all. I am leaving on Sunday from NYC and hope that the crowds are good. I am not afraid of the virus per se but of the quarantine on the ship if positive.

Edited May 17, 2022 by BlushPell
wrong quote

[styles27]

31 minutes ago, BlushPell said:

Yes my Boston cruise April 8 was packed for 3.5 hours shoulder to shoulder. Much worse than this photo is. I wish I had gotten a photo of it. I wore a mask the entire time in the terminal but there was absolutely no social distancing for the 3.5 hours we waited. NCL only took temperatures at the last minute before boarding which made no sense to me at all. I am leaving on Sunday from NYC and hope that the crowds are good. I am not afraid of the virus per se but of the quarantine on the ship if positive.

From what I recall the ship was late getting into Boston for your sailing right? I can’t imagine having to wait 3.5 hrs inside that terminal. I hope your experience in NY is much better and happy cruising!

[CrazyTrain2]

I have made a Freedom of Information request to the CDC for the actual ship positivity numbers.  When I get the information back I will post it.  I may need some help getting information on Cruise length from the CC collective - Cruise length I think significantly affects the positivity rates in addition to port of Embarkation.

 

I think all of us deserve the real information to make informed decisions about whether to sail or not and what precautions we need to take while on board.

[latserrof]

23 minutes ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

I have made a Freedom of Information request....

 

Good idea, thanks. Please do keep us posted if you ever get the info. I believe the CDC numbers would not include passengers who test positive after leaving the ship, which appears to be a significant number.

[ontheweb]

26 minutes ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

I have made a Freedom of Information request to the CDC for the actual ship positivity numbers.  When I get the information back I will post it.  I may need some help getting information on Cruise length from the CC collective - Cruise length I think significantly affects the positivity rates in addition to port of Embarkation.

 

I think all of us deserve the real information to make informed decisions about whether to sail or not and what precautions we need to take while on board.

It should be interesting to see what the data shows. Thank you for doing this.

[barbuda]

The stress of all this testing before/during/after has taken away the pleasure of cruising!  However, I still am planning our to go on our Med Cruise out of Rome end of June (with a bit of hesitancy).  I'm not as concerned about providing a neg test to get on board (although what does it matter anymore if you've been vaxed/boosted?), I'm more concerned that I will test neg to return back to the US!  Then what happens - does NCL offer anything to help you change your flights 'they made' and help you find a reasonable hotel (which I know is out of my own pocket)?  The dreaded testing at the end of the cruise to re-enter the US just needs to go away.

[Karaboudjan]

49 minutes ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

I have made a Freedom of Information request to the CDC for the actual ship positivity numbers.  When I get the information back I will post it.  I may need some help getting information on Cruise length from the CC collective - Cruise length I think significantly affects the positivity rates in addition to port of Embarkation.

 

I think all of us deserve the real information to make informed decisions about whether to sail or not and what precautions we need to take while on board.

 

It would be interesting to see the sort of breakdowns you are describing, but I suspect it would take a lot of work to get at that from the data that you would be given.  But maybe you are a data analyst or Tableau hobbyist?  😉

 

 

[davencl]

2 hours ago, CrazyTrain2 said:

I have made a Freedom of Information request to the CDC for the actual ship positivity numbers.  When I get the information back I will post it.  I may need some help getting information on Cruise length from the CC collective - Cruise length I think significantly affects the positivity rates in addition to port of Embarkation.

 

I think all of us deserve the real information to make informed decisions about whether to sail or not and what precautions we need to take while on board.

The first interesting thing will be is if this information is exempt from the FIA or the CDC claims it is.

[CrazyTrain2]

45 minutes ago, davencl said:

The first interesting thing will be is if this information is exempt from the FIA or the CDC claims it is.

I asked for general numbers not names, any PII or PHI.  The raw numbers should not be exempt.  I can see where the denominator of total passengers onboard could be considered a trade secret.  If it is then the raw numbers of how many passengers will be interesting but not as helpful as percent positive.  We'll see how it plays out and how long the CDC takes to respond.

 

I try to be optimistic when dealing with these agencies.

 

[janice2348]

22 hours ago, cfelbab said:

 

In general I feel like the thresholds set by the CDC with respect to COVID are not reflective of the current state of the disease. This is not the same disease as it was two years ago and if it only takes 6 cases on a boat of 2000 people to trigger orange, that seems silly. I feel the same way about the metrics determining if a region of the US is in "high transmission". As the mortality rate of COVID appears to continue to fall, I would think that the thresholds that trigger alarm should also adjust but they do not appear to be doing that.

 

FWIW, I got off the Encore in early May, I've been on 6 airplane flights since then and attended a business conference last week with over a thousand people. Essentially "pre-COVID normal" activities.. I've taken multiple COVID tests and each one has come back negative. And yet people who I know that are hyper careful at work and elsewhere and are double masked and not willing to venture near an airport or cruise ship are coming down with COVID. COVID seems to go where it wants to go no matter what we do.

 

If that's the case, we might as well get on with life. For me that means, staying current on vaccinations. Maintaining distance where I can. Occasionally masking especially in those situations where there is a lot of density or where I am around people who are vulnerable or anxious.. But not hunkering down at home anymore. To be clear, I'm not in a high risk category so for me it's risk/reward. A year ago the risk seemed much higher and at that point I canceled all my trips including two cruises. Today the risk appears to be manageable and the reward of travel is to me pretty high. I'm not getting any younger so waiting until there is zero risk might mean lot of missed opportunity.

 

I don't think we're going to get good info from the cruise lines on the number cases on their boats anymore than I think we are get good info in the general community anymore. Maybe we have to assume that we are going to encounter COVID somewhere and protect ourselves appropriate to our health status. It feels to me that the risk of COVID encounter is high at work, in the local community and while on vacation so it's sort of a wash. The disruption factor of COVID while on vacation is obviously higher in that I may be quarantined or what not but that does not to me seem like enough a reason to avoid travel. Again, your mileage may vary and that's perfectly okay.

 

 

I totally agree.  I’m not sure what good testing is really doing on cruises.  We have to learn to live with Covid as it is now.  Getting vaxxed and boosted will keep you from getting seriously ill or dying.  It will not 100%  prevent you from catching Covid.  We spent over two years living like hermits.  We are venturing out more, keeping an eye on numbers and assessing our own risk.  I wish they would just drop testing.  Especially since it depends on when you are tested after you have been exposed.  You could test negative and positive in the same day( this happened to my daughter).  Also, if you are asymptomatic, you should not be quarantined!  
These are of course my own opinions. But I think I can say we are all tired of this and we need to move on!
 

[hawkeyetlse]

21 minutes ago, janice2348 said:

I’m not sure what good testing is really doing on cruises.

As long as testing continues to be required to enter some countries and for traveling back home, then testing everyone every few days during a long cruise is useful. For example on an eastbound TA, everyone needs to be tested at the end of the cruise to enter Europe and/or to fly back to the US. If you test every few days during the cruise, you can isolate the few positive cases and prevent spread. If you just do nothing for 10 or 12 days, a lot more people will test positive at the end of the cruise and have to quarantine, purchase new flights, rearrange their lives. I'm not even talking about getting sick.

 

It's worth the cost and effort of testing a few times during the cruise if you can prevent even a handful of people from having to go through that (and you will, because that's exactly what testing and isolating is good for).

[mking8288]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:25 AM, dcipjr said:

... I could have gotten it anywhere. Heck, the way the latest variant is spreading, I could easily just have gotten it anyway had I stayed home.  We’ll just get through it. In a way I’m almost relieved—it was pretty much inevitable that I would get COVID at some point, but I didn’t test positive while on the ship. Now I just have to get it over with!

Hey Dan - just checking to see how are you doing today 😷  Both Susan and I are improving, her appetite came back last night at 90% plus, and 100% plus by lunch time today - taking her afternoon nap.  Ordered curbside food earlier & worn a KF94 mask for that - aren't really cooking in the kitchen, spoiled last week.  

 

This latest sub/variant is truly highly contagious and very easily spread among close contacts - our SIL that also tested positive following our confirmation had largely remained asymptomatic, but a bit careless at home despite self-isolating from others in her immediate household.  Late yesterday, one of her twin adult daughters living at home (one of our nieces) started experiencing some symptoms, and surely enough, rapid tested as positive.  Their cousins, one being a nurse also & previously infected and recovered, instructed them on additional precautionary measures to contain the spread inside their 2 family, 3 stories house.  Fingers crossed - niece called into work to report, transitioned back to 100% WFH until sometime next week, employer is going above & beyond more than healthcare services with their workforce.  

 

Wait, there's more to our "saga" directly attributed to cruising the Norwegian Joy last week. My brother-in-law called mid-morning today to tell us that, he, too - just rapid tested positive at home himself & SMS his test strip with 2 lines, OMG 😳 - he isn't upset, just a little surprised or shocked that he can ... remaining asymptomatic thus far, feeling just fine.  Three of them were in the other SP suites and of course, we ate most meals together (you saw them briefly on the Waterfront on Friday, as I recall, as they walked by us.)   Most likely "caught" it from us as close contacts too.  They are all double boosted - not sure what the PCR test results done yesterday will show when it come back, probably within the next 24 to 48 hours from the lab to his PCP.   Both ladies remained "negative" on today's Antigen Rapid test.  

 

Cumulatively, on a little section of Deck 10 Fwd/Mid  with the Norwegian Joy, we now have confirmations that 4 of them were exposed & infected - 99% surely - while on the ship.  CDC statistics as reported by NCL will not include or show us as being counted.  

 

Meanwhile, NYC has already transitioned into a "high" Covid-19 alert level but the mayor insisting that, for now, he is not going to reinstate indoor masking requirements, simply to strongly urge & recommend ... 

[CrazyTrain2]

I don't want to go into too much about the specifics of the protocols - lest I might get banned from CC.  But clearly, the current protocol is not working for Omicron BA2 or BA2.121.  There is almost no Alpha or Delta in the wild right now in the United States - Omicron is king. BA2 is a beast regarding virality and transmissibility.  I may be going out on a limb here but I think everyone will get BA2 or a subvariant - It's a matter of time until one contracts it.

 

The issue remains - the institutional reaction to being positive is disproportionate to the risk for Vaxxed/Exposed healthy individuals.  The protocols were put in place not to protect people per se, but rather the healthcare system.  The protocols were put in place for a virus with much higher hospitalization and death rates (Alpha and Delta) combines with a population with little protection.  Since then our collective immunities have been hardened through either Vaccines or Exposure and the virus has evolved.  While Omicron is nothing to sneeze at (pun intended) it is not the ventilator inducing killer that its previous generations were. AS LONG AS YOU ARE VAXXED AND BOOSTED.

 

I'm afraid that BA2 will just have to run it's course through the world and there is little ANY protocols in the civilian population can do about it.  I'm not suggesting you get it over with but rather plan for the institutional overreaction for a positive test.

 

[dcipjr]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:22 PM, mking8288 said:

Hey Dan - just checking to see how are you doing today 😷  Both Susan and I are improving, her appetite came back last night at 90% plus, and 100% plus by lunch time today - taking her afternoon nap.

Hey Henry! Thanks for checking up on me!

 

Tuesday and Wednesday were a bit rough. Low-grade (100°F) fever, aches, sore throat, fatigue, congestion, and a cough. 
 

Today has been a big improvement. I woke up fever-free, so that was a good start. Aches are gone. I still am a bit more tired than usual, and my nose is super congested, but I’m not coughing quite as much anymore. 

 

I drove myself to the CVS drive-through for a PCR test, which will confirm the rapid test and help get me a doctor’s note for work. 
 

Right now I feel about like I do when I have a cold. I’m not particularly enjoying it, but I’ve felt worse. 
 

Thank goodness for the vaccine. 
 

Glad to hear you and yours are doing all right, and on the road to recovery. My wife and daughter still are symptom-free, but my wife has a PCR test for tomorrow just to check (she had symptoms just before I got home that could have been COVID, but tested negative on a rapid test). We’ll see. 
 

Ironically, this may mean we’ll all go on vacation sooner than planned—if we all get COVID and recover, might as well take advantage of that immunity window. 🤪

 

But yeah, clearly the onboard protocols aren’t good enough to avoid substantial spread. It seems like 7 days is short enough to avoid testing positive onboard, but people are testing positive once off the ship. 

[detwings]

Just got back from Ncl Breakaway on 5/15 and tested positive for COVID 3 days later. Was in the Haven, didn't get off ship.