STICKER SHOCK

[Hawaiidan]

I hope you all have  your air fare covered  or bought already  of pulled those FF miles   because I just checked trans atlantic air  this summer and fall........

From the west coast, using the UA site   business fares, with 2 connections ( not non stop) are up a whopping $2300pp  to$ 7700pp

If your thinking of canceling a trip and have your air already purchased ,  you might think twice before doing so.

 

     Ya, ya get the $ futire flight credit  but you might be looking at having to come up with  many thousands on top of that  ............     I wonder how many  can afford to keep flying....

.

   

Edited May 21, 2022 by Hawaiidan

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

I hope you all have  your air fare covered  or bought already  of pulled those FF miles   because I just checked trans atlantic air  this summer and fall........

From the west coast, using the UA site   business fares, with 2 connections ( not non stop) are up a whopping $2300pp  to$ 7700pp

If your thinking of canceling a trip and have your air already purchased ,  you might think twice before doing so.

 

     Ya, ya get the $ futire flight credit  but you might be looking at having to come up with  many thousands on top of that  ............     I wonder how many  can afford to keep flying....

.

   

Dan - call United direct. The web fares for multi city sometimes are better or worse than two one way tix (cruises that start/stop in different ports).

Our upcoming cruise is Bizclass outbound SFO-ARN (via FRA) and return EWR-SFO. Two tix at just under $6k total. But we booked over the phone with UA a couple of months ago. The big difference from $9k on the UA website at that time was a Lufthansa connect FRA-ARN on sale from Lufthansa that didn’t show on the web pricing. 
This is not the first time calling saved $ thousands!

[Hawaiidan]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Dan - call United direct. The web fares for multi city sometimes are better or worse than two one way tix (cruises that start/stop in different ports).

Our upcoming cruise is Bizclass outbound SFO-ARN (via FRA) and return EWR-SFO. Two tix at just under $6k total. But we booked over the phone with UA a couple of months ago. The big difference from $9k on the UA website at that time was a Lufthansa connect FRA-ARN on sale from Lufthansa that didn’t show on the web pricing. 
This is not the first time calling saved $ thousands!

Oh I did cross check.....and on Matrix too................   These are changes within in the past 30 days. !     I offer then up as a caution to those seeking to cancel and use credit to re book.... or book a cruise without air....   It is an ugly world .     Gas here is over $7 a gal now.   

[Flatbush Flyer]

14 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

Oh I did cross check.....and on Matrix too................   These are changes within in the past 30 days. !     I offer then up as a caution to those seeking to cancel and use credit to re book.... or book a cruise without air....   It is an ugly world .     Gas here is over $7 a gal now.   

Filled up my not-quite-empty Audi Q5 here in Point Richmond the other day: $98 (even after the Safeway discount)!!! Yikes!

[khuselid]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Oh I did cross check.....and on Matrix too................   These are changes within in the past 30 days. !     I offer then up as a caution to those seeking to cancel and use credit to re book.... or book a cruise without air....   It is an ugly world .     Gas here is over $7 a gal now.   

I'm having the same struggle with air. PDX-KEF and LON-PDX. The price just came down yesterday with more legs available. Actually we are negotiating with Oceania air dept to see what they can find. Currently their is a bit less expensive than what I can find, but we would have to do econ from DEN-PDX and the first leg is on Icelandic which is not true BC. Hang in there and it doesn't hurt to have your TA check with O as well as call United which I will also do.

[Stockjock]

I usually do flights with frequent flyer miles for several reasons.

1. They're mostly "free".

2. They will usually allow me to cancel and credit back to my account without penalty.  Sometimes literally at the last minute.

I have a good chunk of miles on American, United, Delta, Southwest, Alaska and also Amex points I can use.

I mostly get these miles through promotions.  I'll get a new card w/a bonus (and preferably no annual fee the first year), play their game to get the miles, and often close the account in a year.  Then, I'll do the same deal when I'm next eligible, which is often 2 years.

I currently have a summer sailing on a different cruise line and booked flights through American, where I seem to get the most bang for the buck.  My flights into one Northern European city and out of a Southern European city was 55,000 per person or 110,000 miles total with about $70 pp in taxes (higher taxes if I use certain airlines like British Airways).  But, I can cancel those at any time with no penalty.

Takes awhile to accumulate a lot of points, but with a combination of the aforementioned sign-up bonuses, normal spending, and actual paid travel, they add up.  Plus, some cards, like my Amex Platinum, not only give you a $600-$1,000 sign-up bonus, but often, 5 times reward points on travel purchases.  I threatened to cancel and they gave me another $300 worth of points with a $3k spend over 3 months, but most have gotten $500 to $700 worth of points.  I took what they offered.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Stockjock

[Mura]

We aren't planning on travel to Europe until August 2023 but I'm filing away this information in our memory banks.  We have been using FF miles in the past for biz air ... and have a good amount on Delta and AA.  So far.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

34 minutes ago, Mura said:

We aren't planning on travel to Europe until August 2023 but I'm filing away this information in our memory banks.  We have been using FF miles in the past for biz air ... and have a good amount on Delta and AA.  So far.

 

Not sure about those two airlines but, United and others have moved to dynamic FF pricing (just like for fares). And the points required can vary significantly day-to-day.

 

And, speaking of United: note that, when you search flights on their website, not everything will display unless you do multiple advanced searches with specified time spans.
 

Of course, ITA Matrix is a great resource for flight searches. However, many of the combo routes/carriers/fare classes shown (that can get you to wherever) are not ticketable as a single multi-city and/or multi-carrier itinerary.

 

In any case, at least for United, do call for the best options/prices and, ask for the $25 booking-by-phone fee to be waived if you couldn’t find that “best” fare on the website.

[roberts2005]

Even the price of using frequent flyer miles has gone up.  To go from NY to Barcelona in October it is costing 180,000 miles for a one way ticket in Business Class.  Non stop plus only $5.60 in taxes.

 

it can be done on BA for 57,500 miles plus $ 570, but with a 7 hour layover.

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, roberts2005 said:

Even the price of using frequent flyer miles has gone up.  To go from NY to Barcelona in October it is costing 180,000 miles for a one way ticket in Business Class.  Non stop plus only $5.60 in taxes.

 

it can be done on BA for 57,500 miles plus $ 570, but with a 7 hour layover.

With Dynamic Pricing, that 180k ticket could be half or double that (and back again) w/i the same week! 
We’ve started unloading our FF points bank since it’s only going to get worse.

[roberts2005]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

With Dynamic Pricing, that 180k ticket could be half or double that (and back again) w/i the same week! 
We’ve started unloading our FF points bank since it’s only going to get worse.

I check the Barcelona flight about once a week, no change.  Did get a good deal, through United, coming home on Air, Canada from Rome.  It does involve a short connection in Montreal.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, roberts2005 said:

I check the Barcelona flight about once a week, no change.  Did get a good deal, through United, coming home on Air, Canada from Rome.  It does involve a short connection in Montreal.

Get a bagel and some poutine!

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

With Dynamic Pricing, that 180k ticket could be half or double that (and back again) w/i the same week! 
We’ve started unloading our FF points bank since it’s only going to get worse.

On  many routes in the prime summer and fall Sept-October , I am seeing UA requiring 240,000 one way  480,000 rt !!!!     Last year to get home from Australia in Sept, it cost 200,000....    Hey I have been a FF guy for40 years   Used to go to France/Switzerland etc for 150,000 rt Business....... 

 

The days of "wine and roses are over....its now Whine- and Roasters  Get worse?  Gas pumps here are being re worked to operate for $10+ per gallon ( expected after memorial day)     This is going to hurt the future of cruising  where it will now costs more than a penthouse to fly to your cruise..... 

 

   To reiterate,  don't dump that cruise and take FF  credits, thinking it will get better.    Grab and hold on to what you got .    Recognize that  things will continue to get worse for the next 2 years   at least, till the oil/inflation debacle is corrected. . Ships and planes use a lot  and base their pricing on oil.....   And...O is not coming out with electric ships  or United electric planes.

[Hawaiidan]

14 hours ago, Mura said:

We aren't planning on travel to Europe until August 2023 but I'm filing away this information in our memory banks.  We have been using FF miles in the past for biz air ... and have a good amount on Delta and AA.  So far.

 

for 2023... you better get your self  or have  over 1 mil to be safe....  per person.  What you and I think is , today, a good amount is  going toe erode very very fast

Pictured below is the new FF program administration  staff  at United......

Edited May 22, 2022 by Hawaiidan

[roberts2005]

I tried to do an AA round trip NY to Buenos Aires in biz in January.  It was well over 600,000 miles for two.

 

To buy it was $3,600.00 each.  Not much choice if you want a direct flight. 

[FlyerTalker]

19 hours ago, Stockjock said:

1. They're mostly "free".

 

They are wanting you to think they are "free".  Actually, they are being purchased with an alternative currency.  And you want to get the best return from your CC spend.

[FlyerTalker]

16 hours ago, Mura said:

and have a good amount on Delta and AA.  So far.

 

 

15 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not sure about those two airlines but, United and others have moved to dynamic FF pricing (just like for fares). And the points required can vary significantly day-to-day.

 

DL has eliminated award charts and gone completely dynamic.  AA has gone to a four-tier award chart, so they are quasi-dynamic.

[Stockjock]

16 hours ago, Mura said:

We aren't planning on travel to Europe until August 2023 but I'm filing away this information in our memory banks.  We have been using FF miles in the past for biz air ... and have a good amount on Delta and AA.  So far.

 

As an example with Amex Platinum.
 

Their platinum card is $695 per year.  I think that with a $3k to $4k spend in the first few months, there's a bonus of something like $700 to $1,000 worth of Amex points that can be used for travel or whatever.

The firm I work for actually provides that card sort of free (you pay it, and it's reimbursed), if certain criteria are met.  To be clear, I'm not here representing the firm, as I qualify as a client and not due to employee status, but I think the criteria is:

$25,000 or more in a certain type of liquid account and...

$5,000 or more in direct deposits each month (can be less if social security) and...

Some other form of a brokerage account.

So the card has great perks, such as free first class lounges, potentially free hotel rooms and such, but also one can pick up perhaps $700 to $1,000 of "free" month to apply towards travel.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, roberts2005 said:

To buy it was $3,600.00 each.  Not much choice if you want a direct flight. 

 

And there's the rub.  Everyone wants that non-stop, so the demand is high.  High demand, fixed supply = higher pricing.  Econ 101.

 

OTOH, if you take a stop along the way, the price drops dramatically.  Look to LATAM or especially Avianca for revenue business class tickets.  Found full lie-flat itineraries from EZE to LAX in business on AV for about $850 one-way.  Stop in Bogota, stretch your legs, and back to another 787.  At that price, it's not worth it to waste your FF points.

 

 

[FetaCheese]

My opinion: FF was really nice when it came out. To build loyalty.  Now I see it as a trap, since they have degraded the program over the years, drip by drip, "costing more and more miles" + extra fees to be paid on top of "free flights". So much time spent checking, checking and checking.  For the true frequent fliers, a nice program, but for casual, vacation fliers, not so good.

[roberts2005]

1 hour ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

And there's the rub.  Everyone wants that non-stop, so the demand is high.  High demand, fixed supply = higher pricing.  Econ 101.

 

OTOH, if you take a stop along the way, the price drops dramatically.  Look to LATAM or especially Avianca for revenue business class tickets.  Found full lie-flat itineraries from EZE to LAX in business on AV for about $850 one-way.  Stop in Bogota, stretch your legs, and back to another 787.  At that price, it's not worth it to waste your FF points.

 

 

Took a look, the LATAM routing and layover is not the best when going to JFK.  Also their 3 star rating makes me nervous.  We always fly in at least two days early, would not like to have a flight canceled on the way there.  Not as much concern on the way back.

 

BTW I think we are on the Marina together this fall.

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

And there's the rub.  Everyone wants that non-stop, so the demand is high.  High demand, fixed supply = higher pricing.  Econ 101.

 

OTOH, if you take a stop along the way, the price drops dramatically.  Look to LATAM or especially Avianca for revenue business class tickets.  Found full lie-flat itineraries from EZE to LAX in business on AV for about $850 one-way.  Stop in Bogota, stretch your legs, and back to another 787.  At that price, it's not worth it to waste your FF points.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, FetaCheese said:

My opinion: FF was really nice when it came out. To build loyalty.  Now I see it as a trap, since they have degraded the program over the years, drip by drip, "costing more and more miles" + extra fees to be paid on top of "free flights". So much time spent checking, checking and checking.  For the true frequent fliers, a nice program, but for casual, vacation fliers, not so good.

Not true.....  any time you spend a dime you could be getting a return that cost you nothing more.   You could be getting  and building an account.....might take longer for others  but your building for the future.   

 Saying the heck with it   is , well, just plain throwing your money  away...plain and simple. Your assuming you will never get anything   so you quit trying...  Patient  spending bears fruit. 

 

  A normal person  might spend 40,000 + on daily living... Gas and groceries and mic stuff.  It could be fare more if you charge trips, Insurance, taxes etc.    Earning easily 100,000 a year... every year.....    Question is are you willing to throw away  a no cost benefit to you   ?????

[FlyerTalker]

12 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

Not true.....  any time you spend a dime you could be getting a return that cost you nothing more.   You could be getting  and building an account.....might take longer for others  but your building for the future.   

 Saying the heck with it   is , well, just plain throwing your money  away...plain and simple. Your assuming you will never get anything   so you quit trying...  Patient  spending bears fruit.

 

Absolutely the case.  You should be getting at least a 2% return on all of your plastic spend.  You can guarantee that by getting a 2% cash rebate card.  You'll lock in that rate, not higher or lower.  Or you can get a bit more esoteric and find cards with bonus categories and lesser categories.  Depends on what you want.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

A normal person  might spend 40,000 + on daily living... Gas and groceries and mic stuff.  It could be fare more if you charge trips, Insurance, taxes etc.    Earning easily 100,000 a year... every year.....    Question is are you willing to throw away  a no cost benefit to you   ?????

 

For example:  Amex Gold card gives 4X on all spend at grocery stores.  Assume you spend $10k annually there, including stocking your home bar.  That's 40,000 points without breaking a sweat.  Toss in another 4x on airline tickets and on all restaurants.  Buy a McDonald's card with your credit card, then use that rather than cash.  Ditto with Starbucks or whatever.  Spend as little as you can with cash and use your cards.  Remember to pay them in full each month - otherwise your interest kills your rewards.

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, roberts2005 said:

Took a look, the LATAM routing and layover is not the best when going to JFK.  Also their 3 star rating makes me nervous.

 

LATAM is better than a "three star".  Bet you looked at SkyTrax.  Their ratings are a joke among flyers.  For example, Garuda is listed as a five star airline, as is Hainan.  EasyJet and Vueling are four star? 

 

Now, some of their rankings are spot on.  But take SkyTrax with a big grain of salt.  (And FWIW, other 3 star carriers include AA, DL, UA, and AS)

 

Many believe that consulting contracts with SkyTrax and affiliated companies affect the ranking given to carriers.  Or lack of contract dropping airlines down a notch or two.

 

2 hours ago, roberts2005 said:

BTW I think we are on the Marina together this fall.

 

Not sure why you think that.  Have not been on Marina in a number of years and have no future bookings on Oceania at this time.

Edited May 23, 2022 by FlyerTalker