HAL Just implemented masks again on Rotterdam

[Kamfish642]

53 minutes ago, Don Kehote said:

I'd explain it, but you're just not interested in any other viewpoint other than the one from your navel.

As normal, people's opinions are polarized.  No one listens anymore.

[Kamfish642]

22 hours ago, MAVIP said:

I fully agree!

I believe that most people believe vaccines and masks are effective, if not in stopping spread, at least minimizing the severity if you get COVID.  The argument with masks on cruises appears to be questions on wearing masks in interior spaces but not at gathering areas, such as dining room and entertainment areas (drinking, etc.) where it is most likely to get COVID.

 

Both my wife and I received our 2nd booster shot and choose common sense to wear a mask in crowded areas (elevators, theater, etc.) on recent crise.  As they say, you can only worry and control your habits.

[RynoWally]

What a bunch of 12 year Olds. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. Not going to bother me either way or affect my vacation if I see someone not wearing one. Bottom line is as soon as I step on to that Plane, I know and accept that there is a risk that I'm going to catch something at any point in my vacation, and its going to be my fault, not the person who isnt wearing a mask, or the person who is wearing a mask, its my fault, mine and mine only. If you don't like that risk stay home.  Everybody has the answers for whatever side you are on, they also have all the links to the best studies for both sides of the argument, and no one on here is changing anyone else's mind. Cry Cry Cry. 

[PACD_JG]

2 hours ago, Don Kehote said:

I'd explain it, but you're just not interested in any other viewpoint other than the one from your navel.

One state over.  Just let me know.

[PACD_JG]

2 hours ago, Laminator said:

I agree. I think smoking should be allowed everywhere on the ship!

That would be fine - at least the consumer would know beforehand the product he/she is paying for instead of policy changes on a whim.  Perhaps you good folk should encourage HAL leadership to permanently make HAL the mandatory-boosted, mandatory-masked cruise line forever.  We'll see how long it stays in business.

[seaoma]

13 minutes ago, PACD_JG said:

That would be fine - at least the consumer would know beforehand the product he/she is paying for instead of policy changes on a whim.  Perhaps you good folk should encourage HAL leadership to permanently make HAL the mandatory-boosted, mandatory-masked cruise line forever.  We'll see how long it stays in business.

 

It's been this way since they restarted. 

 

I had to cancel my bucket list trip-35 days with ports HAL may never be able to visit again, because they had a mask mandate when I booked in December 2021 and they dropped it in April 2022, which would have been right in the middle of my trip. 

 

So, it cuts both ways. 

 

Why do you care what happens on the Rotterdam? I thought you were sailing on the Koningsdam.

[PACD_JG]

4 minutes ago, seaoma said:

Why do you care what happens on the Rotterdam? I thought you were sailing on the Koningsdam.

Fair enough - and as long as HAL sticks to the policy I booked under, I'll say nary a word. "Masks on board are recommended but not required indoors or outdoors (except while in Greece). We highly recommend guests wear a mask in the World Stage and other entertainment areas, casino, spa treatment rooms, Club HAL and during other congregate events." 

[BermudaBound2014]

Those who are risk adverse (for whatever reason) might want to reconsider cruise travel for the time being. There are many other vacation choices with less chance of exposure (if only from population density perspective). 

 

Cruise ships are the only game requiring everyone be vaccinated (and in some cases masked); yet that wasn't successful keeping covid at bay. What we do know is that masks didn't keep covid off. Vaccines didn't keep covid off. While both may reduce exposure (to what extent we are unsure), no matter how strict the protocols, Covid has won. The virus is onboard nearly every cruise ship sailing today. 

 

It maybe time to accept the reality that there are no protocols which cruise lines can put into place that  will keep you 'safe.' If you have a comorbidity, this is especially important to note. My SIL wanted me to book a cruise for her in July and I refused because she has a comorbidity. It's certainly not fair. But it's reality. 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:11 PM, jeh10641 said:

Hi, BermudaBound2014,

You are right about the 54% capacity. Now Carnival has all of its back in service less those that are having maintenance done. They have carried over 2,000,000 cruisers since the restart. The quote below is from David Bernstein, CFO.

 

"Despite all that, during the first quarter, we carried over 1 million guests, which was nearly a 20% increase from the fourth quarter 2021...Once again, our onboard and other revenue per diems were up significantly in the first quarter 2022 versus the first quarter 2019...We ended the first quarter 2022 with $7.2 billion in liquidity versus $9.4 million at the end of the fourth quarter. ..During the first quarter, we increased our booked occupancy position for the second half of 2022, albeit not at the same pace as a typical wave season due to the Omicron variant. "

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

Without getting too much into the company financials in this thread, since the topic has wondered into pent-up demand, it is important to note that in spite of David's Pep talk (above), the bottom line is that CCL lost an additional 1.9 Billion dollars (Billion with a B) in Q122.   Their total debt is now 35 Billion (with a B) dollars. Annual interest payments alone equal approximately 1.5 Billion dollars (you guessed it, with a B) :).  

 

CCL is a giant in the cruise industry with nearly 50% of the entire market share. Unfortunately, because they are so behemoth, the pandemic has hit them extra hard.

 

There is a reason CCL is in negotiations with the Saudi's to sell off Seabourn in order to raise much needed cash. The Saudi's already own a good chunk of the company. IMO, Seabourn will not be the last of the CCL brands to be sold off. Certainly should make all the HAL fans wonder why HAL sits without a single new build on the docket ;-). 

 

If you are interested, there is a general stock thread in the floataway lounge that will help to explain the why pent-up demand has failed to materialize. We are a friendly bunch who love to chat stocks.

 

BTW: here is a link to the entire Q1 earnings call where you can read the entire quotes from David Bernstein. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4497095-carnival-corporation-and-plcs-ccl-ceo-arnold-donald-on-q1-2022-results-earnings-call

 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by BermudaBound2014

[seaoma]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Cruise ships are the only game requiring everyone be vaccinated (and in some cases masked); yet that wasn't successful keeping covid at bay.

 

Infectious disease protocol was vaccinated, masked and distanced. Since they only followed one of these for any length of time and it's now been lowered to 90% vaccinated ( and at no time did 100% of the passengers follow these protocols), it's no wonder they weren't successful.

 

The CDC has a chart now that says N95 masks reduce transmission by 85%. Perhaps that's why the Rotterdam has asked their cruisers to mask up. Someone, somewhere thinks it's going to help.

 

Comorbidities include a large number of conditions, including being over 65, a present or former smoker, obesity, and even depression. I can't imagine the percentage of people that fall into these categories, much less the more serious comorbidities, like cancer, diabetes, kidney disease and immunodeficiencies, wouldn't make an impact on cruising.

 

In the cruising industry, the average age of today's cruiser is around 57. Almost 35% of cruisers are over 60. The average age of someone on a World Cruise is 74. 

 

Doesn't look good for cruising if this lasts 3-10 years.

 

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, seaoma said:

Doesn't look good for cruising if this lasts 3-10 years.

 

 

I could not agree more. Cruising is 'damned if they do, and damned if they don't".  I do not believe there are any protocols that will keep a ship covid free. I do agree that there are protocols which can keep covid numbers lower (n95 masks for example) but the cruise lines tried tougher protocols only to find out that were not enough consumers willing to sail under the most strict protocols. It's a lose/lose for an industry we all love. 

[seaoma]

35 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I do not believe there are any protocols that will keep a ship covid free.

 

I don't think anyone are or should expect the ships to be covid free. Covid less should be the goal. 

 

2021 cruises sailed for about 6 months or so, which included hurricane season and the holidays. HAL only sailed in Alaska until they started the Caribbean in October. 

 

By March/April, more lax protocols and more passengers but that's a trade off with more sick passengers and crew, which brought missed ports, cancellations and covid mitigation efforts including QT and isolation, either on or off the ship.

 

How much better are they doing today, with their damned if they don't approach? 

 

The difference to me is that during the more transmissible virus we have now, they are removing protocols that decrease infection, while increasing the attendant disappointment and hassle. Why in the world would I want to pay money for that kind of experience?

 

I have cruises booked, but it looks doubtful. 

[BermudaBound2014]

@seaoma It is highly unlikely I will choose to cruise until the risk of quarantine is removed. Cruise ships are being held to unattainable standards. I do not expect cruise ships to be covid free. I acknowledge that no matter what protocols are in place, cruising has a higher risk compared to other land vacations solely based on population density. I accept the risk of catching covid on a cruise ship, but I do not accept the risk of being locked in a room. To use your words, "why in the world would I want to pay money for that kind of experience?"

 

And this is why cruise stock continues to fall. I don't see a clear win for the cruise lines in the foreseeable future. 

[seaoma]

@BermudaBound2014 Unfortunately for me, I have a huge (for me) FCC that will expire Dec. 2022, unless HAL extends it, which is doubtful. 

 

My perspective is that if the cruise industry would follow the covid mitigation protocols and enforce them for all passengers, fewer people would be in isolation. They would rather take the route they have chosen, so this is the way things are for the foreseeable future. 

 

In all honesty, it isn't the cruise lines fault either, most people are boarding the ship with covid because they don't try to use the protocols to avoid covid before they even board. That has become apparent to me reading the thread on a Viking World Cruise. Granted, they tested everyone everyday which would make people's head explode over here, but it worked. I believe they've had less covid onboard in 155 days than HAL has had in a week. 

[Gray Lady]

I have been reading this thread and have thoughts that are all over the place. I really don’t like how many people on cruises are coming down with COVID. I know it is a chance one takes when cruising. Hubby and I have never been on a cruise, but have planned for our upcoming Alaska cruise and land tour for over a year. We are both over 65, are vaccinated and double boosted. Hubby also has some health issues that put him in the area of higher risk. Everything looked good until recently. We have not went anywhere in three years and always wear our masks when shopping. I don’t want us to get the virus, and realize the chances we are taking by going on our cruise. That said, if we postpone our cruise, there is a chance we will never go. We are planning on celebrating an anniversary, a 75th birthday, and retirement (delayed celebration due to COVID) on this vacation. We have saved for this for five years. We don’t want to run and hide for the rest of our lives, yet don’t want to take dumb chances. We have decided to go, yet wear our N95 masks all the time. It is about striking a balance. We will do our shore excursions masked up. We will not socialize a lot with others, especially those without a mask. We know that we could catch the virus while on our land tour and never make it onto our first cruise. We are just going to be cautious and hope for the best. We may find that we hate cruising due to disease transmission. We may end up in quarantine or stuck in Canada. At least it will be an adventure. I keep reading about people with COVID getting on planes…really? If everyone would care enough about others to do the right thing (including masking up when you are in a situation where germs thrive), then everyone could enjoy something a little more “normal”. Yes, part of me wants to cancel, but we are going to go and hope for the best; knowing what the worst could be. We are staying away from people for the next few weeks so we don’t get sick before the trip. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope! 

[Storylady]

2 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

I have been reading this thread and have thoughts that are all over the place. I really don’t like how many people on cruises are coming down with COVID. I know it is a chance one takes when cruising. Hubby and I have never been on a cruise, but have planned for our upcoming Alaska cruise and land tour for over a year. We are both over 65, are vaccinated and double boosted. Hubby also has some health issues that put him in the area of higher risk. Everything looked good until recently. We have not went anywhere in three years and always wear our masks when shopping. I don’t want us to get the virus, and realize the chances we are taking by going on our cruise. That said, if we postpone our cruise, there is a chance we will never go. We are planning on celebrating an anniversary, a 75th birthday, and retirement (delayed celebration due to COVID) on this vacation. We have saved for this for five years. We don’t want to run and hide for the rest of our lives, yet don’t want to take dumb chances. We have decided to go, yet wear our N95 masks all the time. It is about striking a balance. We will do our shore excursions masked up. We will not socialize a lot with others, especially those without a mask. We know that we could catch the virus while on our land tour and never make it onto our first cruise. We are just going to be cautious and hope for the best. We may find that we hate cruising due to disease transmission. We may end up in quarantine or stuck in Canada. At least it will be an adventure. I keep reading about people with COVID getting on planes…really? If everyone would care enough about others to do the right thing (including masking up when you are in a situation where germs thrive), then everyone could enjoy something a little more “normal”. Yes, part of me wants to cancel, but we are going to go and hope for the best; knowing what the worst could be. We are staying away from people for the next few weeks so we don’t get sick before the trip. All we can do is cross our fingers and hope! 

Go for it. My husband and I are older and we finally booked a cruise in November. We had such a great cruise, we have been doing a cruise a month. We wear KN95 Mask which are almost as good as N95’s. We avoid crowed areas. If we do go to the showroom, we try to stay well away from others due to so many people not wearing masks. We usually had an Oceanview room, but lately have been doing a suite. So we can enjoy the sea, the scenery and have a quiet place to read and take off our masks. I do believe, the key is not doing lots of socializing with others unless you know they are doing the same as you. You should be fine.
 

People don’t wear their masks properly or not at all. Book one of the Vista Class ships and use the glass elevators. We noticed that not many people use them. If someone comes on without a mask we leave. Rather be sensible than sorry. Being quarantined is not the way you want to spend your anniversary cruise. We get a table for 4 just for us and sit far away from the aisle to social distance. If you eat at 8 PM, you have a better chance of not being around a lot of people who might cough in the dining room. We take HAL shore excursions and wear a mask the whole day. We have been fine. If someone is not wearing a mask sits next to you, move. At least you won’t be in close proximity.

[macaroni]

The issue is that when boarding the Rotterdam, we were told that we had to mask up indoors, if not eating or drinking…..so they should enforce their new rule on this ship.

[seaoma]

1 hour ago, macaroni said:

The issue is that when boarding the Rotterdam, we were told that we had to mask up indoors, if not eating or drinking…..so they should enforce their new rule on this ship.

 

Please let us know if they do. When we cruised in August, they had required masks and a statement on their site that passengers who failed to follow this requirement, would be disembarked. Not only did that not happen, I almost never saw anyone say anything to people who did not comply.

 

They had signs up reminding people but that didn't even work. The last morning of the cruise, a man (he was no gentleman) got on the elevator with me without a mask and began coughing. When I asked him where his mask was, he stated it wasn't a requirement. Really??? You've been on the ship for an entire week and you never saw a single sign that said masks were required inside an elevator? 

[macaroni]

A few people complained the first few days about no enforcement…we asked that they make the announcement in Dutch also and have security go around the theatre before the show starts….they refused to do anything. Passengers go into any venue…to play games or read, and as soon as they do, they remove their masks….no drinking or eating involved.

we are not happy about their response and don’t think we will be sailing HAL again in the near future. 
again, they changed the rules for a reason…high covid counts? They should not have given us the mask announcement when boarding if they were not going to enforce it.

[seaoma]

6 minutes ago, macaroni said:

A few people complained the first few days about no enforcement…we asked that they make the announcement in Dutch also and have security go around the theatre before the show starts….they refused to do anything. Passengers go into any venue…to play games or read, and as soon as they do, they remove their masks….no drinking or eating involved.

we are not happy about their response and don’t think we will be sailing HAL again in the near future. 
again, they changed the rules for a reason…high covid counts? They should not have given us the mask announcement when boarding if they were not going to enforce it.

 

That is not what I wanted to hear. I'm sorry that it still isn't being enforced.

 

Please tell HAL that because of this situation, that you won't be sailing again. I think the people that want a ship with fewer covid cases, need to be more vocal. I told them just this week it was their lax health protocols that led to my call to cancel my upcoming 21 day cruise. 

 

I hope you will be able to stay well. 

[Florida_gal_50]

11 minutes ago, macaroni said:

A few people complained the first few days about no enforcement…we asked that they make the announcement in Dutch also and have security go around the theatre before the show starts….they refused to do anything. Passengers go into any venue…to play games or read, and as soon as they do, they remove their masks….no drinking or eating involved.

we are not happy about their response and don’t think we will be sailing HAL again in the near future. 
again, they changed the rules for a reason…high covid counts? They should not have given us the mask announcement when boarding if they were not going to enforce it.

This is typical of hal.  I guess they don’t understand after all this time it could be detrimental to their business.  It’s quite amazing really.

[seaoma]

1 minute ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

This is typical of hal.  I guess they don’t understand after all this time it could be detrimental to their business.  It’s quite amazing really.

 

It is really. I guess the number of people who are cruising now, that get covid onboard and are not happily isolated in a cabin or that are disgusted by their non-enforcement of their own policies, and vow to never cruise again aren't worth keeping.

 

Their business model going forward appears to be get as many people onboard as possible, wait and see if they get infected and just roll the dice to see if they will return.

 

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

20 hours ago, Kamfish642 said:

I believe that most people believe vaccines and masks are effective, if not in stopping spread, at least minimizing the severity if you get COVID.  The argument with masks on cruises appears to be questions on wearing masks in interior spaces but not at gathering areas, such as dining room and entertainment areas (drinking, etc.) where it is most likely to get COVID.

 

Both my wife and I received our 2nd booster shot and choose common sense to wear a mask in crowded areas (elevators, theater, etc.) on recent crise.  As they say, you can only worry and control your habits.

Very well said. We agree with you and drink the same lemonade. And just finished 126 days on Holland America with no problems

[seaoma]

@RynoWally and @Gail & Marty sailing away

 

I see lots of people upset about the cruising situation, both sides. Lot's of sale to entice cruisers back. Stock price down. 

 

I guess we will watch and see how it plays out.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by seaoma

[seaoma]

9 minutes ago, Gail & Marty sailing away said:

 And just finished 126 days on Holland America with no problems

 

What's your secret? Perhaps those people who get covid on cruise ships would like to know.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by seaoma