Could a CDC change to pre-cruise testing requirements be coming soon?

[AbbyCruiser45]

1 minute ago, mfs2k said:

What is the fault with pre-arrival testing?

Would you like to board with undetected Covid ?

I’d rather your Covid be detected and you not be allowed to board. 

The fault is that it is an extra hurdle that is seemingly not slowing the number of cases on board. I sailed last July with no pre-arrival testing and we had zero cases on board for a 7 day sailing. Compared to now, when there is pre-arrival testing and many ships are having 1-3% of the passengers infected. Case counts were higher in July 2021 than they are now. So then, what is the point of a covid mitigation measure that does not work well?

[RichYak]

2 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

No.  Read it again.  Same protocols we are facing to embark Celebrity on Friday in Italy.

When I read it, it had no Celebrity embarkation info. The post has been edited.

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, BigTorino said:

Celebrity knows how many of their crew test positive because they test crew once a week. If crew positivity rate is any indication, they know. It may not be a perfect sample however, because close contacts among the crew also get quarantined. Maybe you could elaborate on that? You seem to know a lot. It sounds like stopping pre-cruse testing could be disastrous for crew health. Thanks!

Yes they certainly know their crew numbers.

 

Since we are talking about passenger testing that was the group I was focusing on.

[Guest ldtr]

59 minutes ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

Really insensitive and a mind boggling comparison. You can be against measures that are largely not changing the number of cases on board (comparing this summer to last, when there wasn’t testing) and 100% for preventative healthcare. I should know as my mom was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer this year after a regular colonoscopy. Yet, both she and I see the fault in pre-arrival testing. 

One question how can one know that they are not impacting the number of cases on board, unless one compares them the same situation without those measures. 

 

If testing keeps half of the initial cases off of the ship, it would certainly impact the total number of cases that occur during a cruise, if all other conditions are the same.

 

The fact that some cases are occurring on board does not mean that testing is not impacting the total number of such cases.

[Ride-The-Waves]

4 minutes ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

The fault is that it is an extra hurdle that is seemingly not slowing the number of cases on board. I sailed last July with no pre-arrival testing and we had zero cases on board for a 7 day sailing. Compared to now, when there is pre-arrival testing and many ships are having 1-3% of the passengers infected. Case counts were higher in July 2021 than they are now. So then, what is the point of a covid mitigation measure that does not work well?

Operative word "seemingly."

 

Cruise ships and cruise lines know, accurately, what their infection rates are.  Making those public is detrimental to business.  We were on a Princess trans-Atlantic in March.  In theory, everyone tested negative prior to embarkation.  By the time the ship tested those flying back to the US two days prior to disembarkation the infection rate had jumped to around 20 percent (of those tested) and suddenly new mandates for wearing masks everywhere on board became the norm.

 

Businesses (cruise lines in this case) must test to both insure the viability of their business and because so many people do not follow good COVID protocols ashore and at home.  Pre-cruise testing does not catch everyone who is positive.  That doesn't mean testing should not be required.  COVID incubation times range between 3 and 8 days.  Better testing would be to require both a PCR test 8 days out and also an antigen test 1-2 days prior to embarkation.  Let the howling begin.

 

Businesses need to know their liabilities and testing helps.  Cruise lines are not forthcoming with data they collect because its bad for business.  People (passengers) need to know the threats they will face onboard.  This includes threats to health.

 

Several years ago we sailed Mumbai to the Aqaba through the Northern Arabian Sea.  No one complained about the extra security to protect from pirates.  Same for COVID testing.  Extra security.  😀

[Ken the cruiser]

28 minutes ago, RichYak said:

You gave us the debarkation requirements for Celebrity and the embarkation requirements for Princess.

My bad. I later updated the Celebrity entry with the preembarkation requirement. As far as the Princess entry goes, there are no disembarkation testing requirements when disembarking in Barcelona. 

[Ipeeinthepools]

50 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

So pre-cruise COVID testing should continue until we reach a COVID-Zero status, thus resulting in elimination of Q&I protocols on ships?  Is that what you are saying? Maybe I'm misinterpreting.   

 

 

That's not what I was suggesting.  I was suggesting that as long as it is reasonable to have the isolation and quarantine protocols in place, they should continue pre-cruise testing.   There are a number of factors that need to be considered before eliminating these protocols, such as: the number of cases detected, severity of the Covid strain, impact on the ports visited, availability of therapeutics, etc.

[canderson]

50 minutes ago, AbbyCruiser45 said:

 I sailed last July with no pre-arrival testing and we had zero cases on board for a 7 day sailing. Compared to now, when there is pre-arrival testing and many ships are having 1-3% of the passengers infected. Case counts were higher in July 2021 than they are now. So then, what is the point of a covid mitigation measure that does not work well?

The difference in your two time frames:  Your July 2021 cruise was pre-omicron, which is a lot easier t pass around, unfortunately.

[Ken the cruiser]

51 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

That's not what I was suggesting.  I was suggesting that as long as it is reasonable to have the isolation and quarantine protocols in place, they should continue pre-cruise testing.   There are a number of factors that need to be considered before eliminating these protocols, such as: the number of cases detected, severity of the Covid strain, impact on the ports visited, availability of therapeutics, etc.

But at some point doesn’t it become the responsibility of oneself to protect against the various viruses, and those that are infected with them, that can be found on a cruise ship? I know on all but one leg of the 10 cruise legs we’ve been on since last August, (9 Celebrity and 1 18 day Princess cruise), very few folks wore a mask and many had no issues using the public restrooms. And what about ship tours while in port. Yes, I’m sure there are some that won’t go on them. But on the 25+ excursions we’ve been on unless masks were mandatory most folks didn’t wear them. But that was their decision. 
 

But at the same time if a country you will be embarking or disembarking your cruise in still feels it’s important to have testing requirements in place for cruise ships, then of course the cruise line should be required to follow them. 

BTW we currently have 6 monitored eMed antigen tests ready to use for our next 3 cruises, so either way is fine with us. 😁

[Guest ldtr]

Just now, Ken the cruiser said:

But at some point doesn’t it become the responsibility of oneself to protect against the various viruses, and those that are infected with them, that can be found on a cruise ship? I know on all but one leg of the 10 cruise legs we’ve been on since last August, (9 Celebrity and 1 18 day Princess cruise), very few folks wore a mask and many had no issues using the public restrooms. And what about ship tours while in port. Yes, I’m sure there are some that won’t go on them. But on the 25+ excursions we’ve been on unless masks were mandatory most folks didn’t wear them. But that was their decision. 
 

But at the same time if a country you will be embarking or disembarking your cruise in still feels it’s important to have testing requirements in place for cruise ships, then of course the cruise line should be required to follow them. 

BTW we currently have 6 monitored eMed antigen tests ready to use for our next 3 cruises, so either way is fine with us. 😁

How many cases would you accept on board before it impacts your decision to cruise?  After is not the number of cases one of the factors one would look at in protecting themselves.

 

Would you be happy if crew members that tested positive continued to work?  If no how much impact to services from staffing impacts to services are you willing to accept before it impacts you willingness to cruise? The number of cases on board would certainly impact the odds of crew cases.

 

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Those currently cruising and wanting to cruise that would support the stoppage of precruise testing would be in the vast majority. Those who want to continue pre cruise testing including those who would stop cruising if they did would be in the minority. Those few in the aforementioned group who are fearful should seek different vacation plans or stop crusing all together once pre testing stops. 

You know this how? Detailed and accurate polling?  Supposition?  Need to also remember that there are less than 15 percent of all cruisers who read/post on CC.  I would suggest that the vast public majority, based on public commentary that cruise ships are cesspools filled with COVID, would profess that all cruising should be halted until COVID is vanquished.

[Arizona Wildcat]

14 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

Those currently cruising and wanting to cruise that would support the stoppage of precruise testing would be in the vast majority. Those who want to continue pre cruise testing including those who would stop cruising if they did would be in the minority. Those few in the aforementioned group who are fearful should seek different vacation plans or stop crusing all together once pre testing stops. 

Am confused as the majority of people do not cruise and probably would support testing if it would reduced their chances of contracting covid.  That would likely include cessation of cruising as already said.

Agree most who are cruising hate precruise testing because of the possibility they might be left at the pier overseas.

Precruise testing is not likely to go away until various governments eliminate the requirement.  Many towns are concerned about an outbreak of covid that would overwhelm their medical facilities  - even to provide minimal care.  Would small towns in Iceland want a few thousand passengers to visit that have been in close contact as a group?  They would prefer individuals travelling in smaller groups such as families to minimize the chance of a large number of cases.

And yes, we know cases are running in the 1-3% area that are DETECTED and reported.  What are the real numbers?  Why is it apparently impossible to locate those?

Last, we cruise from Iceland in August.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Arizona Wildcat

[Ride-The-Waves]

We all need to remember that governments and businesses provide guidelines to customers/citizens which benefit all constituencies.  Just like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater, actions detrimental to public health and order come under guidance beneficial to all and are issued for the benefit of all constituents.  NOT wearing a mask is currently deemed detrimental to public health.  Many do not wear one regardless, especially in the US.

 

Freedom?  I was in Romania shortly after dictator Ceaucescu was executed in December 1989.  The concept of "democracy" and "freedom" was alien to their society.  What few automobile drivers there were felt that traffic laws and regulations not longer matter.  "Freedom" means you are "free" to do whatever you want regardless of harm to others.  The result?  Some horrendous traffic crashes at intersections?

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ride-The-Waves

[tallnthensome]

10 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

You know this how? Detailed and accurate polling?  Supposition?  Need to also remember that there are less than 15 percent of all cruisers who read/post on CC.  I would suggest that the vast public majority, based on public commentary that cruise ships are cesspools filled with COVID, would profess that all cruising should be halted until COVID is vanquished.

One only needs to read all the cruise line forums and comments on CC and not just the Celebrity forum to see that the majority wants to do away with testing. Certainly the large amount of people who used to cruise but wish to but can't  because they aren't vaccinated would also support this trend. What the public opinion of people who don't cruise at all doesn't matter.  To think that majority of current cruisers want to continue testing would be foolish. The major inconvenience, worry, cost, and ineffectiveness of testing is nothing a normal person would wish to continue doing given the choice. Arguing against that would be Damm near impossible. The omicron variant is weak and symptoms are minor if any when factored into that as well. My family is vaccinated and boosted and we all got it a month ago and we had two with nothing more than a stuffy nose and two asymptomatic.  People are over this nonsense unless you are elderly, sickly, and prone to infection .....which the majority of cruisers are not. Keep the vaccine requirements but lose the silly testing as no other forms of vacationing require this nonsense. 

[tallnthensome]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

That's not what I was suggesting.  I was suggesting that as long as it is reasonable to have the isolation and quarantine protocols in place, they should continue pre-cruise testing.   There are a number of factors that need to be considered before eliminating these protocols, such as: the number of cases detected, severity of the Covid strain, impact on the ports visited, availability of therapeutics, etc.

And what is the serious of this covid strain and impact on ports visited? None to very little? 

[Mark_K]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:06 AM, radtel said:

We went to Alaska on the Eclipse, a few weeks ago.  All 4 of us have been vaxed to the max.  All 4, even though all wore n95 mask when possible, got covid.  I am at day 14 and still testing positive. 

 

And you may test positive for up to 90 days, even though you likely don’t have current case of Covid.  That’s the point of a Certificate of Recovery.

[p18750]

I think an earlier post mentioned Celebrity is a business so they will perform non-government mandated testing which they feel will maximize their revenue. Some people will be hesitant to cruise without testing because they believe it will increase their chances of contracting Covid and either being sick or quarantined. Others will not cruise for fear they will have a positive test right before their cruise and won't be allowed to board. So their vacation will be ruined. 

Most of the cruisers I have spoken to are in the second group but that is a relatively small sampling of cruisers. What can be easily seen is that ships departing from European ports have a lot of vacant cabins. Our cruise in July from Rome has over half of the cabins vacant and this, I assume, does not include any reserved for quarantine. Once X believes more cabins will be filled by removing non-government mandated testing I am sure they will do so. 

[TeeRick]

2 hours ago, RichYak said:

Once the on-board isolation requirements, particularly for crew, are reasonably relaxed, the pre-cruise testing can end.

Ok that is a response but not really to what I am asking here.  What would it actually take to relax the on-board isolation requirements for crew or passengers?  What is going to be the benchmark for this?  Again - assuming a forever background of circulating COVID in our lifetimes.  I don't have any easy answer here.  Just posing the question for discussion.  Somehow the CDC and other country's health agencies had some benchmark to go ahead with elimination of pre-flight testing.  I have no idea what that benchmark was by the way.  Are cruise ships continuing to be held to very different standards?

[Guest ldtr]

34 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Am confused as the majority of people do not cruise and probably would support testing if it would reduced their chances of contracting covid.  That would likely include cessation of cruising as already said.

Agree most who are cruising hate precruise testing because of the possibility they might be left at the pier overseas.

Precruise testing is not likely to go away until various governments eliminate the requirement.  Many towns are concerned about an outbreak of covid that would overwhelm their medical facilities  - even to provide minimal care.  Would small towns in Iceland want a few thousand passengers to visit that have been in close contact as a group?  They would prefer individuals travelling in smaller groups such as families to minimize the chance of a large number of cases.

And yes, we know cases are running in the 1-3% area that are DETECTED and reported.  What are the real numbers?  Why is it apparently impossible to locate those?

Last, we cruise from Iceland in August.

The numbers on detected cases on board are reported to the CDC and one can get them by filling an FOI request.  Takes about 90 days to get the data back on the period requested.

 

Problem is that that data only gives the number that have actually tested positive on board.  Does not give any that test positive off of the ship, or those that never test.

 

The cruise lines do have a couple of pretty good measures.  1. crew test results  2. Number of people reporting symptoms  3. Number of cancellations due to a positive test result.

[Fly and Sail]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

That's not what I was suggesting.  I was suggesting that as long as it is reasonable to have the isolation and quarantine protocols in place, they should continue pre-cruise testing.   There are a number of factors that need to be considered before eliminating these protocols, such as: the number of cases detected, severity of the Covid strain, impact on the ports visited, availability of therapeutics, etc.

 

It's already way past the point of being reasonable. Everyone on board is vaccinated. Covid is of no danger. Stop isolating people and treating them like Ebola patients.

[Ride-The-Waves]

23 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

One only needs to read all the cruise line forums and comments on CC and not just the Celebrity forum to see that the majority wants to do away with testing. Certainly the large amount of people who used to cruise but wish to but can't  because they aren't vaccinated would also support this trend. What the public opinion of people who don't cruise at all doesn't matter.  To think that majority of current cruisers want to continue testing would be foolish. The major inconvenience, worry, cost, and ineffectiveness of testing is nothing a normal person would wish to continue doing given the choice. Arguing against that would be Damm near impossible. The omicron variant is weak and symptoms are minor if any when factored into that as well. My family is vaccinated and boosted and we all got it a month ago and we had two with nothing more than a stuffy nose and two asymptomatic.  People are over this nonsense unless you are elderly, sickly, and prone to infection .....which the majority of cruisers are not. Keep the vaccine requirements but lose the silly testing as no other forms of vacationing require this nonsense. 

Fully vexed and double booster, as well.

 

Its also a "major inconvenience" to test for and carry a driver's license.  Have liability insurance.  "Normal"people have no interest in getting on a cruise ship right now.  Only us international travelers do that (we have stepped foot on all 7 continents) - with a few exceptions for the "party" boats.  We have lived in Europe for many years - me since 1949.  We follow the protocols of societies we visit and reside.  We have no interest in catching COVID, whatever the variant.  Its all detrimental to good health.  "Cruisers" are a segment of a society, be in US or other.  These societies protect themselves from diseases and viruses as best the can.  Its what societies elect leaders to do for them.  Until "cruisers" can be isolated outside a given society so that they do not bring back viruses and diseases to that society, maybe eliminating testing might work.  Until then, we live with what is really a non-invasive and non-detrimental process to insure the safety and health of all onboard a ship.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Ride-The-Waves

[WhiteSoxFan]

I am sure the cruise lines have much better data on the number of people testing positive on the pre-cruise testing and they have to do the calculus on that.  They have to determine what impact said number of cases with have on the crew, as well as the number of pax that turn up positive and are giving credit for part of their cruises.  When the cost analysis points toward elimination of testing I'm sure the cruise lines will push extra hard to eliminate it.

[AbbyCruiser45]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Cruise ships and cruise lines know, accurately, what their infection rates are.  Making those public is detrimental to business.

Unless you are implying that the captain was lying, we know there were zero cases on our sailing July 2021 (Capt. Kate provided daily updates) and we know there were over 3% spread on a recent Apex. So there is some understanding of cases on board. 

 

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Businesses (cruise lines in this case) must test to both insure the viability of their business and because so many people do not follow good COVID protocols ashore and at home.  

If this is the case, then why is CLIA (Cruise Line International Association, of which Celebrity is a member) advocating for pre-arrival testing to be reevaluated? 

[Guest ldtr]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

Ok that is a response but not really to what I am asking here.  What would it actually take to relax the on-board isolation requirements for crew or passengers?  What is going to be the benchmark for this?  Again - assuming a forever background of circulating COVID in our lifetimes.  I don't have any easy answer here.  Just posing the question for discussion.  Somehow the CDC and other country's health agencies had some benchmark to go ahead with elimination of pre-flight testing.  I have no idea what that benchmark was by the way.  Are cruise ships continuing to be held to very different standards?

Really not even a matter of government decisions at this point.

 

Unfortunately cruising is really not like any other business.  It has all of the elements of hotels, restaurants, entertainment venues, all in very tight quarters for days at a time.  All of which combines to make it an ideal environment for spread.  Ships have limited crew quarters so they cannot just add more staff to make up for any that might get ill during a cruise.  So any staff getting ill will impact services.

 

That is not even getting into any marine requirements dealing with standard of care in preventing illness on board. 

 

It really comes down to in the end the decision of the cruise lines in how it will impact their business and their quality of services.  After all even in areas not controlled by the US, similar practices are being followed.

[Ride-The-Waves]

Off to get onboard an eastbound 747 (It Never rains in Southern California...) ...and embark a cruise ship in Europe.

 

Taking full precautions to include pre-boarding testing.

 

Stay safe.