Permanent Cutbacks on Carnival

[RoperDK]

3 hours ago, Top_of_the_Cube said:

If these cuts are "the last straw" for you, either Carnival missed their mark, or you are not who they are after anyway.  New bookings will tell the tale.

We've done 25 Carnival cruises in the last 22 years.  We have seen many changes over the years.  I always try to find a balance between value and amenities.  The lido free lunch venues are a positive.  Other than that, not much.  We have one more Carnival cruise on the Mardi Gras to get our milestone bonus OBC.  We were on Mardi Gras last fall.  It was a disappointment.  Because the ship was such a departure from other ship designs, I am willing to give it another try.  I feel Carnival will have appeal to families looking for an inexpensive vacation or others looking for a quick cheap getaway.  We don't fit that mold anymore and have enjoyed other cruise lines recently. It is time for us to move on.  I do hope that Carnival doesn't go too far.  Time will tell.    

[KmomChicago]

4 hours ago, UPNYGuy said:

 

DW and I book Havana on the vista ships, so I was hesitant to book this due to the drastic difference. 

 

We suffered down in steerage, a/k/a a premium interior on deck 5 in the dead center of this ship, directly below Grand Central.  It was very quiet and comfortable, a tiny bit small - same footprint as a balcony cabin but without the balcony.

 

It was a great cruise. Now we would probably not ever pay the extra for Havana or any kind of class upgrade like that, just not our thing, but I do get it. We are hardly in the room and when we have balconies we hardly use them. 

[KmomChicago]

51 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

We've done 25 Carnival cruises in the last 22 years.  We have seen many changes over the years.  I always try to find a balance between value and amenities.  The lido free lunch venues are a positive.  Other than that, not much.  We have one more Carnival cruise on the Mardi Gras to get our milestone bonus OBC.  We were on Mardi Gras last fall.  It was a disappointment.  Because the ship was such a departure from other ship designs, I am willing to give it another try.  I feel Carnival will have appeal to families looking for an inexpensive vacation or others looking for a quick cheap getaway.  We don't fit that mold anymore and have enjoyed other cruise lines recently. It is time for us to move on.  I do hope that Carnival doesn't go too far.  Time will tell.    

 

I get this too. . . I figure when it's time DH and I will move on as well, as no doubt hundreds of thousands have already and more still will, but we are just not going to be so angry and snipey about it. That's the part I don't get. We've enjoyed Carnival as a relaxed cheapo vacation for people who are not too fancy or  particular about stuff. It was never more than that to us. We never had high expectations and maybe we are just optimists so it always has met or exceeded them. Yes DH is grumbling about the lack of filet at brunch, but it's in a totally jokey way:

 

DH: I am offended that Carnival refuses to feed me filet at brunch anymore!

 

Kmom:  What I am hearing is you never want to go on Carnival again.

 

DH: Hahahahahahaha.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by KmomChicago

[mz-s]

57 minutes ago, RoperDK said:

We've done 25 Carnival cruises in the last 22 years.  We have seen many changes over the years.  I always try to find a balance between value and amenities.  The lido free lunch venues are a positive.  Other than that, not much.  We have one more Carnival cruise on the Mardi Gras to get our milestone bonus OBC.  We were on Mardi Gras last fall.  It was a disappointment.  Because the ship was such a departure from other ship designs, I am willing to give it another try.  I feel Carnival will have appeal to families looking for an inexpensive vacation or others looking for a quick cheap getaway.  We don't fit that mold anymore and have enjoyed other cruise lines recently. It is time for us to move on.  I do hope that Carnival doesn't go too far.  Time will tell.    

 

I think that's fair and frankly probably where my wife and I are as well. We'll still cruise Carnival for family trips as sort of the lowest common denominator, quick drive-to getaways out of Norfolk or Charleston, etc., but our days of going out of our way to fly to get on a Carnival cruise are probably over.

[Drew B 58]

For what it’s worth, I think the latest batch of “cutbacks” has less to do with cutting costs, primarily, and more to do with mitigating the problems associated with staffing shortages.  
 

If they remove the hanging room service cards but still allow people to call in an order, it costs them the same.  If it chases people away from ordering (cheap as heck) complimentary room service and instead sends them to the buffet, the dining room or other venues such as Blue Iguana for breakfast, it probably costs them MORE!  It would only save them money if taking away the hanging cards caused them to skip breakfast entirely, and I don’t think that is likely.

 

If they stop serving food at the Ocean Plaza but guests instead dine on similar food at the buffet, it doesn’t save them money.

 

If they cut the late eats buffet but add comparable items to “Pizza Plus”, it likely doesn’t save them money.

 

Cutting an hour from Sea Day Brunch could go either way.  If people show up earlier and order the same meal, it’s a wash.  If they go somewhere else, it would depend upon what they got and whether it costs the line more or less than what they would have ordered at SDB.

 

Cutting the hours at the pizza place will save them a modest amount of money, as the only other dining option for a few of those hours is for-fee room service.  However, please note that these reduced hours were already in effect.  The announcement simply makes it “permanent”.

 

What most of these changes do serve to do is to consolidate the existing personnel into other open venues, which allows them to run them successfully rather than struggling with keeping more venues open with insufficient staffing.  And in the case of the hanging room service signs, it saves (some of) the man hours because they don’t have to send staff out to roam the halls to collect the cards.

 

I haven’t sailed [yet] since the pandemic, so I don’t really know how bad the staffing issues are or how much they impact customer experience.  Hypothetically, though, if I had to choose between fewer venues that run smoothly or more options that struggle to operate because there aren’t enough staff, I’d choose the former…

 

 

[Illbcruzn4life]

29 minutes ago, Drew B 58 said:

For what it’s worth, I think the latest batch of “cutbacks” has less to do with cutting costs, primarily, and more to do with mitigating the problems associated with staffing shortages.  
 

If they remove the hanging room service cards but still allow people to call in an order, it costs them the same.  If it chases people away from ordering (cheap as heck) complimentary room service and instead sends them to the buffet, the dining room or other venues such as Blue Iguana for breakfast, it probably costs them MORE!  It would only save them money if taking away the hanging cards caused them to skip breakfast entirely, and I don’t think that is likely.

 

If they stop serving food at the Ocean Plaza but guests instead dine on similar food at the buffet, it doesn’t save them money.

 

If they cut the late eats buffet but add comparable items to “Pizza Plus”, it likely doesn’t save them money.

 

Cutting an hour from Sea Day Brunch could go either way.  If people show up earlier and order the same meal, it’s a wash.  If they go somewhere else, it would depend upon what they got and whether it costs the line more or less than what they would have ordered at SDB.

 

Cutting the hours at the pizza place will save them a modest amount of money, as the only other dining option for a few of those hours is for-fee room service.  However, please note that these reduced hours were already in effect.  The announcement simply makes it “permanent”.

 

What most of these changes do serve to do is to consolidate the existing personnel into other open venues, which allows them to run them successfully rather than struggling with keeping more venues open with insufficient staffing.  And in the case of the hanging room service signs, it saves (some of) the man hours because they don’t have to send staff out to roam the halls to collect the cards.

 

I haven’t sailed [yet] since the pandemic, so I don’t really know how bad the staffing issues are or how much they impact customer experience.  Hypothetically, though, if I had to choose between fewer venues that run smoothly or more options that struggle to operate because there aren’t enough staff, I’d choose the former…

 

 

So you’re saying as soon as staffing levels are back up to pre pandemic cruises all the things you listed will be reinstated? Once something is gone it’s not coming back.

 

if the pizza place ran smoothly you wouldnt be in line for over an hour. It doesnt matter how much staff they have there the pizza oven is still the same size and they cant cook any faster thus causing the backup.

 

the items like lasagna which are added you still have to stand in the one line there for an hour or so.

 

just too much demand for one venue.

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

 Once something is gone it’s not coming back.

 

 

Like shrimp cocktail? Escargot?  Or cruise ships from Mobile?

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, KmomChicago said:

We are hardly in the room and when we have balconies we hardly use them. 

 

DW and I are almost the exact opposite. We are always on the balcony relaxing (or cabana if we have a Havana cabin).

[Drew B 58]

43 minutes ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

So you’re saying as soon as staffing levels are back up to pre pandemic cruises all the things you listed will be reinstated? Once something is gone it’s not coming back.

 

if the pizza place ran smoothly you wouldnt be in line for over an hour. It doesnt matter how much staff they have there the pizza oven is still the same size and they cant cook any faster thus causing the backup.

 

the items like lasagna which are added you still have to stand in the one line there for an hour or so.

 

just too much demand for one venue.

Whether or not things return - or other things are added - once the staffing crisis stabilizes remains to be seen.  I imagine that response from the clientele will play a big role in that decision.

 

I have no idea if the wait times at the pizza place will be improved by more hands on deck, or if it is strictly determined by the capacity of the pizza oven.  I doubt that you know, either.  But I’ll bet Carnival does!

 

The point is, if they don’t have enough staff to maintain all of their offerings, they have no choice but to do something about it.  I don’t have enough information to say what other alternative solutions they could have implemented instead or whether these are better, worse, or the same.  I’m just not going to fault them for the choices they make unless I actually know that those choices are bad.

[UPNYGuy]

1 minute ago, Drew B 58 said:

Whether or not things return - or other things are added - once the staffing crisis stabilizes remains to be seen.  I imagine that response from the clientele will play a big role in that decision.

 

I have no idea if the wait times at the pizza place will be improved by more hands on deck, or if it is strictly determined by the capacity of the pizza oven.  I doubt that you know, either.  But I’ll bet Carnival does!

 

The point is, if they don’t have enough staff to maintain all of their offerings, they have no choice but to do something about it.  I don’t have enough information to say what other alternative solutions they could have implemented instead or whether these are better, worse, or the same.  I’m just not going to fault them for the choices they make unless I actually know that those choices are bad.

 

agree. I personally do not think the pizza decision is a bad one. It seems like a better use of resources (staff can likely help with breakfast). I dont know about you, but when was the last time you woke up and thought "oh boy, 4am, time to order a pizza!"

[RD64]

1 hour ago, Illbcruzn4life said:

So you’re saying as soon as staffing levels are back up to pre pandemic cruises all the things you listed will be reinstated? Once something is gone it’s not coming back.

 

if the pizza place ran smoothly you wouldnt be in line for over an hour. It doesnt matter how much staff they have there the pizza oven is still the same size and they cant cook any faster thus causing the backup.

 

the items like lasagna which are added you still have to stand in the one line there for an hour or so.

 

just too much demand for one venue.

You have said it best - back to Economic terms, this is known as the Law of Diminishing Returns. You have one pizza oven  (fixed resource). You can keep adding the variable resource - in this case labour - to the mix. But, despite the number of employees you keep adding, the total amount of pizzas is still the same because you only have the one oven,

[RD64]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Like shrimp cocktail? Escargot?  Or cruise ships from Mobile?

And complimentary after dinner espresso in the MDR.

[Drew B 58]

9 minutes ago, RD64 said:

You have said it best - back to Economic terms, this is known as the Law of Diminishing Returns. You have one pizza oven  (fixed resource). You can keep adding the variable resource - in this case labour - to the mix. But, despite the number of employees you keep adding, the total amount of pizzas is still the same because you only have the one oven,

That assumes the rate determining factor is the pizza oven, and we do not know that to be the case.  If the oven can produce 100 pizzas in x amount of time, but due to staff shortages, they have only been able to crank out 50 pizzas in that time, then adding staff WOULD help.  If they are able to produce enough pizzas, but a lack of staff causes a slowdown in the time it takes to take orders or deliver the product, then adding staff would also help.  
 

I don’t know if the oven capacity is the reason for the delays, and I doubt that you know that, either.  Again, Carnival probably DOES know!

[Drew B 58]

The one solution I am certain that I do NOT want is for them to try to squeeze out the amount of work they can get from a full staff out of a staff that’s only at say 70%-80%.  These guys and gals already work their butts off, and I definitely do not want to see them abused.  I’d gladly give up something [relatively] meaningless if it means the staff is treated more humanely…

[KmomChicago]

2 hours ago, Drew B 58 said:

For what it’s worth, I think the latest batch of “cutbacks” has less to do with cutting costs, primarily, and more to do with mitigating the problems associated with staffing shortages.  
 

If they remove the hanging room service cards but still allow people to call in an order, it costs them the same.  If it chases people away from ordering (cheap as heck) complimentary room service and instead sends them to the buffet, the dining room or other venues such as Blue Iguana for breakfast, it probably costs them MORE!  It would only save them money if taking away the hanging cards caused them to skip breakfast entirely, and I don’t think that is likely.

 

If they stop serving food at the Ocean Plaza but guests instead dine on similar food at the buffet, it doesn’t save them money.

 

If they cut the late eats buffet but add comparable items to “Pizza Plus”, it likely doesn’t save them money.

 

Cutting an hour from Sea Day Brunch could go either way.  If people show up earlier and order the same meal, it’s a wash.  If they go somewhere else, it would depend upon what they got and whether it costs the line more or less than what they would have ordered at SDB.

 

Cutting the hours at the pizza place will save them a modest amount of money, as the only other dining option for a few of those hours is for-fee room service.  However, please note that these reduced hours were already in effect.  The announcement simply makes it “permanent”.

 

What most of these changes do serve to do is to consolidate the existing personnel into other open venues, which allows them to run them successfully rather than struggling with keeping more venues open with insufficient staffing.  And in the case of the hanging room service signs, it saves (some of) the man hours because they don’t have to send staff out to roam the halls to collect the cards.

 

I haven’t sailed [yet] since the pandemic, so I don’t really know how bad the staffing issues are or how much they impact customer experience.  Hypothetically, though, if I had to choose between fewer venues that run smoothly or more options that struggle to operate because there aren’t enough staff, I’d choose the former…

 

 

This sounds awfully logical. I think a lot of people prefer Carnival make decisions based on emotions. 

[BlerkOne]

53 minutes ago, RD64 said:

And complimentary after dinner espresso in the MDR.

Perhaps you missed that Carnival replaced the machines with better machines and upgraded the coffee used. Does any mass market cruise line give away espresso?

[Illbcruzn4life]

1 hour ago, Drew B 58 said:

Whether or not things return - or other things are added - once the staffing crisis stabilizes remains to be seen.  I imagine that response from the clientele will play a big role in that decision.

 

I have no idea if the wait times at the pizza place will be improved by more hands on deck, or if it is strictly determined by the capacity of the pizza oven.  I doubt that you know, either.  But I’ll bet Carnival does!

 

The point is, if they don’t have enough staff to maintain all of their offerings, they have no choice but to do something about it.  I don’t have enough information to say what other alternative solutions they could have implemented instead or whether these are better, worse, or the same.  I’m just not going to fault them for the choices they make unless I actually know that those choices are bad.

Just let me say this. When we were on the Horizon in April they had 2 or 3 workers there per night. With 3 it was close to being the keystone cops.

 

adding additional workers I just cant see it working but what do I know.

 

I do know the oven was full constantly and as soon as the pizza came out they were cut up and served which accommodated about 8-10 people. Then there was a lull until the next batch was done.

 

Those guys hustled their butts off but IMHO they are set up for failure.

[Illbcruzn4life]

42 minutes ago, Drew B 58 said:

The one solution I am certain that I do NOT want is for them to try to squeeze out the amount of work they can get from a full staff out of a staff that’s only at say 70%-80%.  These guys and gals already work their butts off, and I definitely do not want to see them abused.  I’d gladly give up something [relatively] meaningless if it means the staff is treated more humanely…

I dont know want that either but its happening everywhere including where I work. People just get burned out.😒

[BlerkOne]

57 minutes ago, RD64 said:

You have said it best - back to Economic terms, this is known as the Law of Diminishing Returns. You have one pizza oven  (fixed resource). You can keep adding the variable resource - in this case labour - to the mix. But, despite the number of employees you keep adding, the total amount of pizzas is still the same because you only have the one oven,

For fun sake. The pizza ovens aren't baking at full capacity. The grills aren't constantly full of burgers. But you are correct that resources are unlimited on cruise ships.

[CruizinSusan70]

57 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Does any mass market cruise line give away espresso?

RCI, in their Diamond lounge for those that have reached Diamond status or above.

[UPNYGuy]

3 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

RCI, in their Diamond lounge for those that have reached Diamond status or above.

 

I seem to recall I could get it in the concierge / suite lounge on RC as well.

[CruizinSusan70]

2 minutes ago, UPNYGuy said:

 

I seem to recall I could get it in the concierge / suite lounge on RC as well.

No status on RCI, so I only know about it watching Parodeejay on YouTube.  Never paid to stay in a suite either, lol.

[UPNYGuy]

4 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

No status on RCI, so I only know about it watching Parodeejay on YouTube.  Never paid to stay in a suite either, lol.

 

IMO the RC suites are nice, and they really do treat you better than if you book a run of the mill cabin. The concierge herself came down and filled the jacuzzi on the balcony while we were having dinner, so DW could soak when we returned. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

13 hours ago, RoperDK said:

I feel Carnival will have appeal to families looking for an inexpensive vacation or others looking for a quick cheap getaway.

I am pretty sure that has been Carnival's Modus Operandi all along.  They don't exactly market themselves towards the much-older up-market crowd.

 

Adding Shaq's Big Chicken and taking away (some instances of) Tea Time...I think they know who they are marketing to.

 

For the record, we love Shaq's, and only went to one Tea Time ever - it is always when we'd rather be doing something else, but we made the effort that one time, and it was nice, but would not be the automatic "gotta do it again event".

[KmomChicago]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Perhaps you missed that Carnival replaced the machines with better machines and upgraded the coffee used. Does any mass market cruise line give away espresso?

 

I guess I am a low class fool as per usual here, but I really love the Carnival coffee self serve machines. On all 4 cruises this past year I enjoyed a large amount of the java juice and it's way better than anything I get around here. I even became willing to get out of bed in the morning and put on clothes and walk to the buffet in the early hours to do so.