New to Cunard and I have a few questions

[exlondoner]

As far as I remember, in the late 1990s and 2000s, there used to be very few people dancing. More recently, no doubt because of the power of television, that number has considerably increased. I speak only as a spectator, as I don't dance myself.

[Windsurfboy]

I'm  not making a judgement  call on is it good or bad ,  use it or loose it is a basic rule of economics. 

 

Cunard has a responsibility to it's shareholders,  it does this by providing it's customers with services they want to use and enjoy.  If numbers fall then it has no choice but to re-evaluate what to do with a valuable and expensive floor space. 

 

If you like to either participate or watch the dancing then do so, a full room every night will not be in danger of change.  An empty room is a clear call to change.

[ballroom-cruisers]

25 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

I'm  not making a judgement  call on is it good or bad ,  use it or loose it is a basic rule of economics. 

 

Cunard has a responsibility to it's shareholders,  it does this by providing it's customers with services they want to use and enjoy.  If numbers fall then it has no choice but to re-evaluate what to do with a valuable and expensive floor space. 

 

If you like to either participate or watch the dancing then do so, a full room every night will not be in danger of change.  An empty room is a clear call to change.

 

One danger is the concept of the 'cost centre' - and in this case it is classic.  In my career the over enthusiastic use of the cost centre idea has been detrimental when losing the analysis of the system as a whole. The theatre has nobody paying extra money so it might be construed that the theatre is financially detrimental to the voyage costings.  Equally people do not pay to use the deck space, so a lot of the time if the weather is bad the deck space is not financially contributing to the voyage profits either, and the same for the gym. So perhaps the deck should be removed, along with the gym and the theatre because they are not financially viable cost centres?  Of course none of that takes into account the people book a cruise because they have the freedom to choose to go on deck whether nearly empty or not, and some people go on deck specifically when it is fairly empty. On recent cruises I have been on the Queen's Room has been pretty well utilised with the floor well used and not often empty, particularly on Gala nights, but also in the main part of most evenings, so your suggestion does not bear up with the reality on the cruises we have been on recently.  Of course there may be some voyages where there are less dancers - and it is possible that your experience may have coincided with that situation.  At the end of the day Cunard will decide whether or not to change things, but a few months ago on a cruise I chatted to the entertainment manager on one of the 'party evenings' when he wanted to observe how the party evening was going regarding  people getting up to dance - and in fact though the seats were reasonably filled, people were there to watch the pop band, but there were less people on the floor even though it was only needing disco dancing, than when the ballroom orchestra were playing, but the entertainment manager told me that Cunard does not have any intention to remove ballroom dancing from any of their ships or voyages, as they  know it remains a popular part of the decision to book Cunard voyages.

Edited August 16, 2022 by ballroom-cruisers
typo

[WestonOne]

(Replying to Windsurfboy)

Exactly so.  While it is not yet fully clear, that is what seems to be happening with 'Queen Anne':  larger ship, smaller Queens Room, by the look of the plans.   I would hate to see ballroom dancing dropped, which is why I keep banging on about how do we get more of the beginners onto the dance floor in the evenings.

Edited August 16, 2022 by WestonOne

[exlondoner]

And as for the library...even I don't go on a cruise because of the library. It doesn't generate any income, and clearly costs money and takes up a lot of space. Yet, my experience, and, I suspect, that of many others, would be much the less if the libraries were given the chop. 

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, WestonOne said:

(Replying to Windsurfboy)

Exactly so.  While it is not yet fully clear, that is what seems to be happening with 'Queen Anne':  larger ship, smaller Queens Room, by the look of the plans.   I would hate to see ballroom dancing dropped, which is why I keep banging on about how do we get more of the beginners onto the dance floor in the evenings.

 

So what is there more of on QA? Other than passengers?

[BigMac1953]

...but the Queen's Room is not exclusively designed just for dancing. It holds exercise classes, yoga sessions, various afternoon concerts, fencing, line dancing, afternoon tea etc..

[WestonOne]

Extract from the Queen Anne plans from www.cruisedeckplans.com.

 I am quite literally reading between the lines here, but that looks to me as if the Queen Anne Queen's Room is a place to watch things, rather than a place to do things.   The shape of the dance floor is not really suitable for ballroom and there seems to be a much larger seating area around it.    And there is a bar this time, which will make it far easier to asses in terms of profitability.  I could imagine Cunard putting on more ballroom exhibitions rather the guests dancing, building on the popularity of "Strictly", for example.   

And, who knows, in a decade or so, maybe hip-hop and break dance exhibitors!



 

[Victoria2]

18 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

And as for the library...even I don't go on a cruise because of the library. It doesn't generate any income, and clearly costs money and takes up a lot of space. Yet, my experience, and, I suspect, that of many others, would be much the less if the libraries were given the chop. 

The libraries play an enormous part in my cruising life.

 

I'd already deferred possible divorce proceedings because of the suitcase of books I took with me on our Florida trips as I found a local exchange book booth and started an exchange shelf in our hotel.

 

No library isn't a deal breaker obviously but I'd have to buy into Amazon Prime reading if the libraries shrank to a couple of exchange shelves. Cheaper in the long run than reloading my Kindle all the time once I'd exhausted Borrowbox.

 

 

 

[ballroom-cruisers]

And how many on this forum would pay to go on a Cunard cruise to watch hip-hop and break dancing? The kind of passenger would change significantly methinks!

[WestonOne]

Just now, ballroom-cruisers said:

And how many on this forum would pay to go on a Cunard cruise to watch hip-hop and break dancing? The kind of passenger would change significantly methinks!

Yes, that was a tongue in cheek comment - to an extent.  But the Anne does seem to be aimed at a younger demographic overall, and I did suggest not for another ten years or so! 

As it happens, I have been to some dance shows by a smallish dance company (which had to close during the pandemic, but did quite well before then.)   This company was very interested in the relationships between various kinds of dances and how elements repeat in lots of different genres.  After all, the ranges of movements in every kind of dance and sport are defined by our skeletons and musculature,  so if you look for them you can see links between some ballroom movements and, say, martial arts.  Anyway, hip hip and breakdance did form a significant part of their shows.   So it is certainly possible to find audiences (when people are not locked in their homes.)   That they will be younger than the typical Cunard cruiser I don't doubt.  But time has a way of passing!

 

[buchanan101]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:36 PM, Lakesregion said:

Long pants and a long sleeved dress shirt are the minimum requirements for dining in the restaurants and then on gala evenings the anti is increased to require a dark suit with dress shirt and tie or a tuxedo. If you find either not to your liking then the buffets is more casual but no where on the ship are shorts allowed after 6 pm except room service in your cabin.

Shirt requirement now just "collared". This would include polo shirts

[Windsurfboy]

I was talking about use not income. A full room vs empty room.

[ballroom-cruisers]

As someone has pointed out there are various activities in the Queen's Room which give a pretty full, and in fact sometimes overfull, floor - at different  times of the day.  It may also be used again in the future for receptions even though at present they are not happening.  So it is whether it is used at a reasonable capacity overall, and not just at chosen times.  After all the Commodore Club is pretty empty most of the day but gets more use in the evenings - should the Commodore Club be turned into a room for some different use?  The function room next door to the Commodore Club is mostly empty almost all the time - same question.  G32 is pretty much completely empty until the evening on QM2. The tables along the corridor either side of the ship on QM2 that used to have games, have at most one couple at them now - should they be removed?  Much of the time Illuminations is empty especially in the daytime.  What percentage of the time in any 24 hour period would you deem used enough to justify no change?  The pools on deck are regularly empty or only one or two people in them - should they be filled in so nobody can used them?   The grand lobby has a few people sitting at the seats - but mostly it is a queuing area for the purser's desk or excursions office.  The space isn't full - so should that be replaced by something else and have a narrow corridor for those queueing where the queues can really fill the space allotted - so you can see - you can take that argument to extremes.

[Windsurfboy]

I think the core question is , ballroom dancing at night or other forms of entertainment at night. Not changing it in daytime when it is being used well

[ballroom-cruisers]

Well, those of us who dance, and who love watching ballroom dancing, have our view, and those who don't, and who also don't like watching it, may have a different view. Those who want to do disco dancing have another venue to do it, and those who like watching performances have a theatre for that and do not need to use the Queen's Room as a place to watch performances, other than the professional ballroom dance performances on Gala evenings.  Usually when the Queen's Room is used as an alternative pop evening, then the theatre is often not used when it could just as well be used, and have both venues in use at the same time.   I any event most of the time when the Queen's Room is used for party nights or other performances such as a Duo playing music it becomes effectively a theatre and the floor is often very poorly utilised - and some of those events they lay out additional chairs right on the dance floor leaving a fraction of the space to dance - and even then the smaller area that is left has relatively few people on it. So basically you spoil the room for those who wish to use it for the purpose for which it is designed, and have the right place for such events then empty - the logic does not seem to stack up when you take what happens in other areas of the ship when the Queen's Room is taken over for non-ballroom events.  At the end of the day Cunard management will decide whether or not the ballroom will remain a key feature of the fleet. Certainly on Queen Anne it seems that a dilution is in the making - so we will just have to see what happens as time passes.  In the  meantime we will dance and enjoy ourselves to the full, and hopefully others will be doing the same, whether on TA voyages, or other destinations, and those who don't themselves dance, but love watching those who can, will also hopefully enjoy cruises whilst that activity is available.

[D&N]

3 hours ago, WestonOne said:

The shape of the dance floor is not really suitable for ballroom

Can't say I'm that much of a purist.

The size in relation to number of dancers is the important thing for me. After all a rectangular floor ceases to be such when you scatter 20 couples around it. You just have to go in a direction that permits you to dance and if no clear line exists, select other steps.

The corners of the Queens Room floor either side of the orchestra are perfect for checks and spin turns etc.

We won't be on Queen Anne anyway. I'd rather not leave our home vicinity in first place and it would take an ocean liner to tempt me!

[ballroom-cruisers]

3 minutes ago, D&N said:

Can't say I'm that much of a purist.

The size in relation to number of dancers is the important thing for me. After all a rectangular floor ceases to be such when you scatter 20 couples around it. You just have to go in a direction that permits you to dance and if no clear line exists, select other steps.

The corners of the Queens Room floor either side of the orchestra are perfect for checks and spin turns etc.

We won't be on Queen Anne anyway. I'd rather not leave our home vicinity in first place and it would take an ocean liner to tempt me!

 

Absolutely, and I agree on the best use of the floor too, as well as Queen Anne decisions - but there are some who would wish the Queen's Room to be changed from a ballroom dancing venue to something unrelated to ballroom dancing, and that idea seems to keep coming up. I don't know if it is envy that people are enjoying something that someone can't themselves do, and want others to stop being  able to enjoy it, or if it is something completely different.

[WestonOne]

12 minutes ago, ballroom-cruisers said:

. I don't know if it is envy that people are enjoying something that someone can't themselves do, and want others to stop being  able to enjoy it, or if it is something completely different.

Certainly not in my case. as I hope I have made obvious.   I want to get more people ballroom dancing, not less.  That some of them will be absolute beginners is a price I am willing to pay in ballroom, just as I am for any other kind of dance.   Someone off the street fancies a go at traditional longsword dance?  Fine!  Come in, have a go, we will help you!  You saw a dance in a film about Jane Austin that interested you?  Let's do it together!
 

Edited August 16, 2022 by WestonOne

[ballroom-cruisers]

Some are absolute beginners - as I mentioned a few days ago, but it takes courage to get on the floor when you are not experienced. It is up to people as individuals to chat to, help, encourage, and nurture the ballroom dancing for new people.

[Windsurfboy]

This started with the observation by a poster that there were only 6 couples on dance floor all night.  Then a simple comment dancers and those who like watching should use it or lose it.  An empty room at night will not go  un-noticed by Cunard.

 

Some have taken it as an encouragement to get more dancers,  some think it was an encouragement to get rid of dancing.

 

It was and is simply highlighting the consequences of the initial observation , Cunard management's job is to ensure every bit of space is being used effectively for the enjoyment of  as many customers as possible .  The way to show the space is being effectively used at night as a ballroom is to use it as such and in high numbers. 

[WestonOne]

While this has been a most interesting discussion, I fear we have got a long way from the opening post, so I will stop here - on the topic of dance anyway.

One of the things that, to me, creates a certain exclusivity about ballroom is that it so strongly a couple dance.  Unless they are officially teaching,  I don't think I have ever seen an experienced ballroom couple split up and each dance with an beginner to encourage them.  And yet, it is a part of the tradition of ballroom dancing - "ladies excuse me" dances and such like.   Or, in more formal situations, people had dance cards and would be with different partners all evening.   

On Cunard for the occasional dance, the experts could spilt up and go and invite someone sitting down for a spin - that happens in many dance situations.

[ballroom-cruisers]

Observing that on one night is not a full assessment of what happens over many voyages or an average. There will of course be variation and 'some' nights there will be fewer on the floor whilst other nights more will be dancing. The first night of a voyage is often less well attended because quite a lot of people are tired after long journeys getting to the port of embarkation, and are also unpacking. Equally on the last night people are often packing and wanting an early night if getting up early next morning to disembark.  So quoting only 6 couples on the floor is only valuable it that is always the case. What other data do you have to give a proper assessment of how well the room us utilised?

[elmsliebev]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:39 PM, Victoria2 said:

The libraries play an enormous part in my cruising life.

 

I'd already deferred possible divorce proceedings because of the suitcase of books I took with me on our Florida trips as I found a local exchange book booth and started an exchange shelf in our hotel.

 

No library isn't a deal breaker obviously but I'd have to buy into Amazon Prime reading if the libraries shrank to a couple of exchange shelves. Cheaper in the long run than reloading my Kindle all the time once I'd exhausted Borrowbox.

 

 

 

I read quite a few books from the library on this last cruise, including 3 that were already on my To Be Read list for when I got home. I also bring a few paperbacks and leave them on the exchange shelf. Plus my kindle of course. I also got led astray in Victoria BC at Munro's books, a beautiful bookshop! It's not a deal breaker but it does add to my enjoyment of the cruise, and was always busy. 

[Camgirl]

On 8/16/2022 at 5:23 PM, WestonOne said:

While this has been a most interesting discussion, I fear we have got a long way from the opening post, so I will stop here - on the topic of dance anyway.

One of the things that, to me, creates a certain exclusivity about ballroom is that it so strongly a couple dance.  Unless they are officially teaching,  I don't think I have ever seen an experienced ballroom couple split up and each dance with an beginner to encourage them.  And yet, it is a part of the tradition of ballroom dancing - "ladies excuse me" dances and such like.   Or, in more formal situations, people had dance cards and would be with different partners all evening.   

On Cunard for the occasional dance, the experts could spilt up and go and invite someone sitting down for a spin - that happens in many dance situations.

I'm a bit late to this discussion, having been away. 

 

We are reasonably experienced ballroom dancers (around 10 years of lessons). However, I am very self conscious, and find it enormously intimidating to find a set of very experienced dancers on the floor every night, and no one else brave enough to try. This happened to us on our Norway trip in March on QE. Several other couples made the same comment to us. That they felt intimidated as the floor was dominated by the experienced dancers, who also all chatted together, and never with the less experienced dancers. We were very sad never to get on the dance floor as we had been looking forwards to it. I realise we could have just gone on, but I would fear sticking out like a sore thumb amongst the far better dancers, and I just don't have the courage.

 

I do feel that one thing that made a huge difference pre covid, was the presence of dance hosts. The hosts would always encourage the less experienced on to the dance floor. This then encouraged the couples like us, to also dance. The return of dance hosts (they gave returned to some lines, apparently) would make a huge difference to bringing the dancers back on to the floor again.

 

We are on QV shortly, I really hope we get to dance this time.