Cabin changed - no discussion - no compensation

[Windsurfboy]

27 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

 

 

Airlines have done this for years with paid seat reservations - you can only get your money back if you don’t end up in a similar seat

 

Certainly not the case with BA , if you say pay for 1A and are moved to 1F both identical  window seats at front, they will refund seat reservation fee , if you are not inexact seat you booked. Think it's same for most airlines. Perhaps not Ryanair.

[wowzz]

5 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Certainly not the case with BA , if you say pay for 1A and are moved to 1F both identical  window seats at front, they will refund seat reservation fee , if you are not inexact seat you booked. Think it's same for most airlines. Perhaps not Ryanair.

I don't think that it is as easy as that.  The small print always has a get out clause. 

Yes, in theory you are correct,  but try getting a refund if you are moved from  33A to 34B. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by wowzz

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

No it’s not breaking your contract. I’ve said time and time again, you chose your cabin, but the terms and conditions reserve P&O the right to change it.

 

Airlines have done this for years with paid seat reservations - you can only get your money back if you don’t end up in a similar seat.

 

It is however shocking customer service not to offer any compensation / acknowledgement of change.

 

It’s doubly worse that again it’s being done so close to departure.

I realise that the cruise companies are a law unto themselves. My point is that whatever way you look at it, in the business world if you change an item that is bought/booked and paid for it is a contract between you and the company. If the company chooses to change it without any notification/discussion then the contract has been broken. That is a simple commercial fact. Why are cruise companies getting away with it?

[wowzz]

21 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

I realise that the cruise companies are a law unto themselves. My point is that whatever way you look at it, in the business world if you change an item that is bought/booked and paid for it is a contract between you and the company. If the company chooses to change it without any notification/discussion then the contract has been broken. That is a simple commercial fact. Why are cruise companies getting away with it?

Sorry, but if you read the small print of any hotel/flight/cruise etc booking you will always find a get out clause. 

The issue really is how material the change is, which is where it gets interesting ! 

 

[kruzseeka]

If it is something for which you have paid extra, surely at the least, there should be some expectation that the difference in cost between Saver v Select should be reimbursed. It is generally hundreds of pounds more and within a range that I would think would be significant for the customer.   If they really wanted to be petty they could withdraw the free shuttle bus perk as far as I'm concerned!

  

As has already been said though it's the spirit in which this is being handled and P&O should be able to recognise that being deprived of the cabin you have chosen (bought) for whatever reason is going to upset passengers especially if they end up in a cabin where you definitely wouldn't choose to be (under the gym, jacuzzi etc).  This is in addition to the financial loss of paying for something which you don't get.  

 

I can understand the T&C's must cover various contingencies for the Company as cabins may be out of commission for any number of reasons - though I suspect they could have anticipated this situation and taken any cabins likely to be needed for isolation out of the picture from the get-go or at least acted much earlier to stop booking them and offering passengers who had already booked some choices w.r.t a change of cabin well in advance of sailing.  (One week out seems disgraceful - unless now they are having much higher numbers to isolate than they had anticipated with the change in testing procedures?)  It all comes down to good will and in this situation it is sadly lacking.  P&O  are really shooting themselves in the foot with this imo. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by kruzseeka

[janny444]

10 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

I realise that the cruise companies are a law unto themselves. My point is that whatever way you look at it, in the business world if you change an item that is bought/booked and paid for it is a contract between you and the company. If the company chooses to change it without any notification/discussion then the contract has been broken. That is a simple commercial fact. Why are cruise companies getting away with it?

Because they are being allowed to ....they need to be challenged

[Megabear2]

54 minutes ago, janny444 said:

Because they are being allowed to ....they need to be challenged

Anyone affected tried a call to ABTA?

[Megabear2]

I've just been speaking to ABTA on my Princess matter. At the conclusion of my call, I asked as a general question what ABTA made of all this moving people from their chosen cabin who booked select at such late notice.  She was surprised that it was so late in notification as P&O should know well in advance which cabins they aren't using.  Lynn,my contact, was unaware of the issue and suggested anyone affected should notify P&O they are sailing under protest and raise a complaint immediately with ABTA for them to investigate.  This can be done easily on line.

 

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/customer-support/register-a-complaint

 

Her initial view was that if select fare involves picking a certain cabin and saver does not then at the very least unless it is an agreed genuine upgrade the passenger should be refunded the difference in price between select and saver at the point of booking.

 

She thought ABTA would be very interested in hearing about cases, particularly where passengers have been downgraded.

 

Hope this helps.

[Windsurfboy]

13 hours ago, molecrochip said:

 

 

Airlines have done this for years with paid seat reservations - you can only get your money back if you don’t end up in a similar seat

 

Certainly not the case with BA , if you say pay for 1A and are moved to 1F both identical  window seats at front, they will refund seat reservation fee , if you are not inexact seat you booked. Think it's same for most airlines. Perhaps not Ryanair.

[Windsurfboy]

13 hours ago, molecrochip said:

No it’s not breaking your contract. I’ve said time and time again, you chose your cabin, but the terms and conditions reserve P&O the right to change it.

 

Airlines have done this for years with paid seat reservations - you can only get your money back if you don’t end up in a similar seat.

 

It is however shocking customer service not to offer any compensation / acknowledgement of change.

 

It’s doubly worse that again it’s being done so close to departure.

 

There are two separate questions,  do they have the right to move you. Absolutely yes.

 

Should they keep the extra money they charged you for selecting cabin. Even if contract says they can move you, to keep the money they charged you for selecting cabin would be deemed an unfair contract if challenged in court.

 

Take my example of Arvia which makes things simple. Select £500 more than guarantee.  Get half that back in OBC.  No other benefits as all freedom dinning. So paid £250 to choose cabin. If they move me then, they have charged me this money for something they have not delivered. Saying they have right to charge me an then not deliver,  is clearly an unfair contract.

[molecrochip]

P&O will be fine in law as long as they give an equal or better cabin grade. This is part of the reason they have so many cabin grades in select but only one per room type in Saver.

 

As for BA, I failed when they moved my seat. They pointed to the bit that says "If we are unable to offer you a suitable alternative for seating you paid for, you can apply for a refund." and they stated it was a suitable alternative. They then pointed to the bit that said "You can claim a refund for seats you paid for within 30 days of the completion of the last flight in your itinerary where: we change your seat to an alternative seat and you are unsatisfied with the alternative seat;" BA claimed that a seat having a different location but all other attributes the same was not an acceptable reason to claim to be unsatisfied with your seat.

 

BA do not allow your a refund of your seat fee is the involuntarily upgrade you. Apply the same logic to the numerous cabin grades on a P&O ship, moving your guest from a HC to HB grade would then allow you to claim upgrade and get away with it like BA.

 

It is still shocking customer service, and this late.

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

P&O will be fine in law as long as they give an equal or better cabin grade. This is part of the reason they have so many cabin grades in select but only one per room type in Saver.

 

As for BA, I failed when they moved my seat. They pointed to the bit that says "If we are unable to offer you a suitable alternative for seating you paid for, you can apply for a refund." and they stated it was a suitable alternative. They then pointed to the bit that said "You can claim a refund for seats you paid for within 30 days of the completion of the last flight in your itinerary where: we change your seat to an alternative seat and you are unsatisfied with the alternative seat;" BA claimed that a seat having a different location but all other attributes the same was not an acceptable reason to claim to be unsatisfied with your seat.

 

BA do not allow your a refund of your seat fee is the involuntarily upgrade you. Apply the same logic to the numerous cabin grades on a P&O ship, moving your guest from a HC to HB grade would then allow you to claim upgrade and get away with it like BA.

 

It is still shocking customer service, and this late.

What would happen if they moved you to what they considered an equal or better cabin but it was near a 'noisy' spot, ie near the theatre, night club etc?

[Megabear2]

10 hours ago, molecrochip said:

P&O will be fine in law as long as they give an equal or better cabin grade. This is part of the reason they have so many cabin grades in select but only one per room type in Saver.

What about earlier posters who were moved to obstructed view balconies and on one memorable occasion an inside? 

 

I haven't looked at the position of of these but my freebie cabin on one upgrade was in mid forward cabin with sofa on G deck of Britannia.  If I looked left the next door but one cabin was where obstructed cabins began.  Despite the theatre being below us this was an excellent quiet cabin.  On making my next Britannia booking I looked at this same cabin and noted it was actually dearer than ones immediately above other decks.

 

Are these obstructed cabins next door therefore considered the same grade as my one? If so it seems very devious.  I appreciate if booking a saver you can be allocated an obstructed view but for anyone moved to one after paying select fare I can imagine they'd be devastated.

[Cruisemeister2002]

I perfectly understand things like Ports of call being changed due to adverse weather  as with places like Bar Harbor for instance where the ship has to use it's tenders to get passengers ashore and Ports like Guernsey which we have missed due to adverse weather. On one occasion and I'm not sure how often this happens we ended up docking at another Port due to the weather conditions. As for cabins this is a different situation. I do not believe for one minute that upgrades are done for the benefit of the customer. They are done to attract those looking to pay less for a lower grade cabin. After all, you very rarely, if at all, get upgraded from an inside to an outside or a balcony unless stated by the cruise lines in their brochure or via an agent. Upgrades that I have received are in my opinion rarely that much better than the chosen cabin and quite often less accessible for amenities. That is why in general we refrain from accepting upgrades. Where a passenger pays for the right to choose a cabin they should unless there are problems that cannot be overcome get what they choose. As for cabins being used to quarantine, they should be designated once plans are finalised for the seasons itinerary for that ship and not be changed around.    

[Windsurfboy]

The whole question is if they charge you for a specific cabin , not a grade of cabin, is it an unfair contract to say they can move you and not refund. It says select your cabin , not cabin type. So it is an unfair contract. 

 

I know BA have been challenged in small claims court and lost on seat change fees. They keep on refusing to refund because small claims court doesn't set a legal precedence and most people can't be bothered to go to court. They know their t&cs are unfair but know they put off most people.

 

Big companies will always stonewall an individual ,  their thinking is the individual  think they will always loose against big corporations . That is why small claims ( MCOL , make claim on line) exists.  Most of time individual wins as corporations won't spend thousands on lawyers and don't  contest claim . The individual costs are capped at £100, and system expects and supports self representation. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Windsurfboy

[f1005705]

I am now in a pickle…. We were downgraded on Azura in April from a guarantee B4 ( I think the term guarantee is misleading) I had thought that quarantine zones were ending.  We have just booked another guarantee B4 on Azura for December (only B4 left was aft on C deck)..  we may be lucky, however I would rather know now and pick a select on DA grade as decent OBC currently.  Challenge is you will not get a straight answer from P&O or the agent.

[Ukdw]

On 9/1/2022 at 7:25 AM, Tablelamp said:

Yesterday  I booked C726 for next March and requested no upgrade.

I booked R726 on Ventura for last April and was moved too.. 
Same thing happened on Iona in June - moved from 14622.

 

In both cases however the new cabin was better - so not unhappy.
 

For future cruises I have again selected cabins with no upgrades and have also avoided cabins in the aft area too - so hopefully won't get moved again.

[Josy1953]

7 hours ago, f1005705 said:

I am now in a pickle…. We were downgraded on Azura in April from a guarantee B4 ( I think the term guarantee is misleading) I had thought that quarantine zones were ending.  We have just booked another guarantee B4 on Azura for December (only B4 left was aft on C deck)..  we may be lucky, however I would rather know now and pick a select on DA grade as decent OBC currently.  Challenge is you will not get a straight answer from P&O or the agent.

A guarantee B4 does not mean that you will get the only one left at the moment.  It is possible that other B4s could become available if some people in select B4s have not said "no upgrade" they could be upgraded and you could end up in a B4 anywhere on the ship.   This is the reason why a lot of us book select and say no upgrade  because we have chosen exactly where we want to be on the ship.

[Megabear2]

1 hour ago, Josy1953 said:

A guarantee B4 does not mean that you will get the only one left at the moment.  It is possible that other B4s could become available if some people in select B4s have not said "no upgrade" they could be upgraded and you could end up in a B4 anywhere on the ship.   This is the reason why a lot of us book select and say no upgrade  because we have chosen exactly where we want to be on the ship.

There is often misunderstanding on booking a select fare on line.  Whereas it is possible to book select and choose your cabin it is also possible to book select as a guarantee.  Once you say book now a screen showing the two fare options leads you through to let's begin your booking. Lower down in small print under cabin type is choose cabin, relatively small print compared with the continue button. If you choose to click on that you get two more choices, We'll select your cabin or Want to choose your cabin.  Selecting the first button gives you a range of areas on the ship (and presumably a grade as they rise in price) so you can effectively book a select fare without choosing a specific cabin and the scenario described by Ukdw is perfectly possible.

 

Also by just clicking book now and continue the purchaser gets the base price and a guarantee cabin.  The benefits such as OBC, parking etc are allocated as they normally would be and it is a select booking.

 

I have heard of even travel agents just clicking through and people being allocated a guarantee on a select fare.  Those less familiar with the system or not so computer savvy may therefore fall into the trap.  It is therefore reasonably easy to book a certain grade cabin by area and to select no upgrade from that.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

It is therefore reasonably easy to book a certain grade cabin by area and to select no upgrade from that.

But, given that the price will be the same, what is the benefit of booking a cabin grade rather than a specific cabin ?

[Megabear2]

10 minutes ago, wowzz said:

But, given that the price will be the same, what is the benefit of booking a cabin grade rather than a specific cabin ?

None apart from the OBC etc.  I am not advocating people do this, merely that it is perfectly possible and there are people with this type of booking. In my opinion it's a blind side by P&O and Cunard to catch the unwary.  On a lot of other lines (Princess and RCI spring to mind) there is often a surcharge to select your cabin.  

 

Those who have never sailed before or use other lines (MSC and NCL used to not allow any choice) may miss the two buttons and just book.

 

I would add I've had a cabin booked this way with Cunard via a travel agent to get one of the single cabins on QM2 launch day so are very familiar with the process.

 

Many on this board appear to not realise this process exists when advocating select fare do I thought I'd post how it can happen.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Megabear2

[Gettingwarmer]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

None apart from the OBC etc.  I am not advocating people do this, merely that it is perfectly possible and there are people with this type of booking. In my opinion it's a blind side by P&O and Cunard to catch the unwary.  On a lot of other lines (Princess and RCI spring to mind) there is often a surcharge to select your cabin.  

 

Those who have never sailed before or use other lines (MSC and NCL used to not allow any choice) may miss the two buttons and just book.

 

I would add I've had a cabin booked this way with Cunard via a travel agent to get one of the single cabins on QM2 launch day so are very familiar with the process.

 

Many on this board appear to not realise this process exists when advocating select fare do I thought I'd post how it can happen.

I agree, it it very easy to miss the part where you can choose you cabin online and many are caught out and are confused when have chosen "Select" but do not have a cabin number.

 

You can choose select and are unable to choose a cabin when the ship is very full. Happened to me once on Adonia but at final payment was given a choice of cabins.   

[Adawn47]

On 8/31/2022 at 3:30 PM, Mollys dad said:

We booked our cruise several months ago to visit western Europe over 10 days on the P & O VENTURA. We particularly spent a lot of time selecting our cabin on C deck due to the bigger baloneys & paid the full asking price. We get notified 1 week before we go that they have moved us to another deck - this being A. P & O have decided to take out Deck C for COVID reasons!!!. Covid was around when we booked this & P & P knew that it would have to take out rooms or a deck - so why did they not anticipate this & not advertise the rooms as available. P & O have offered no compensation, not even an upgrade to the room as none are available - surprise, surprise, with only a week to go !!!. We are absolutely disgusted by the lack of sympathy & thought by P & O. How do they expect to get returning customers. If this is not resolved, I will take this to the highest authorities possible - P & O do not care about what people think. We could have gone for the fee saver & have the deck & cabin chosen for us via P & O but we chose "Select Price" & paid extra so that we could chose our room - this we paid extra for - what was the point when P &O decided themselves. You would think we could have the extra funds we paid reimbursed  - not according  to P & O "Guest Services".

Moral of this rant - do not pay for extra's & expect your wishes to come true.

Did you check the 'No Upgrade' box?

Avril

[kruzseeka]

55 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

None apart from the OBC etc.  I am not advocating people do this, merely that it is perfectly possible and there are people with this type of booking. In my opinion it's a blind side by P&O and Cunard to catch the unwary.  On a lot of other lines (Princess and RCI spring to mind) there is often a surcharge to select your cabin.  

 

Those who have never sailed before or use other lines (MSC and NCL used to not allow any choice) may miss the two buttons and just book.

 

I would add I've had a cabin booked this way with Cunard via a travel agent to get one of the single cabins on QM2 launch day so are very familiar with the process.

 

Many on this board appear to not realise this process exists when advocating select fare do I thought I'd post how it can happen.

And much appreciated too.  I was aware of another option at booking but never gave it much thought homing in on the 'Select your own cabin' as I knew this is what I wanted to do.   But it's clearly a trap for the unwary - one which they may come to regret.  Thanks for the clarification.

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

On a lot of other lines (Princess and RCI spring to mind) there is often a surcharge to select your cabin.  

Never had to pay a surcharge on Princess to select a specific cabin.