Observations from the Poop Deck Seashore September

[no1talks]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

"Not required BUT..."

Not required, true.

No worries if we're on board, though, Morpheus. We're happy to "wreck the curve" for the dining room. 🤪

[morpheusofthesea]

8 minutes ago, no1talks said:

We're happy to "wreck the curve" for the dining room. 🤪

A class act, like the two of you, deserves 'the best seat in the house.'  

[phissy]

50 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

A class act, like the two of you, deserves 'the best seat in the house.'  

I agree .  If we ever find we are on the same cruise with you, I will gladly buy you both a drink and toast your style. 🥂

[77red96]

8 hours ago, no1talks said:

Not required, true.

No worries if we're on board, though, Morpheus. We're happy to "wreck the curve" for the dining room. 🤪

Looking sharp! Definitely the kind of outfit I would see myself in on a formal night.

[morpheusofthesea]

9 hours ago, no1talks said:

Not required, true.

No worries if we're on board, though, Morpheus. We're happy to "wreck the curve" for the dining room. 🤪

"The well dressed man never stands out in a crowd; his elegance sets him apart." Oscar de la Renta

"A well dressed man is a best accessory a woman can have" Coco Chanel

[spinnaker2]

Bespoke shorts are just shorter versions of bespoke trousers. All still sartorial splendor.

[Paphillyguy]

I find that some of the views in this thread regarding what people should wear in going out seems very old school and not really what truly is reality these days.  I am not one to wear shorts to dinner in the YC but I do not feel it is my place to tell others what I want them to wear.  If the YC manager allows them to come in then that is the dress code.  On our last trip, I found some of the fancy dresses to be way more obscene than some of the nice shorts and t-shirts that were allowed. 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Paphillyguy said:

I find that some of the views in this thread regarding what people should wear in going out seems very old school and not really what truly is reality these days

 

Different views for different people.  It is never out of fashion to be appropriately dressed for the occasion.  That is what "reality" has been, what it now is, and will be for the future.  

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, no1talks said:

. We're happy to "wreck the curve" for the dining room. 🤪

 

A white dinner jacket!  I have wanted one of those for many years.  But, as often as I  end up with wearing spots of my dinner, I never thought it to be practical.  The closest that I came was a beautiful powder blue trimmed in black dinner jacket.  (That was my first formal wear in 1980.)  

[morpheusofthesea]

The postings above were not from the last century. Most of us were taught to dress up when going out. 'One never knows who one may bump into', mothers would caution their daughters. I just pretend that my grandmother and mother are always present before I walk out the door. My mother MAY say "Go back and change your outfit, you look like a schlumper (German), but my grandmother would definitely call me one.

 

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, Paphillyguy said:

I find that some of the views in this thread regarding what people should wear in going out seems very old school and not really what truly is reality these days.  I am not one to wear shorts to dinner in the YC but I do not feel it is my place to tell others what I want them to wear.  If the YC manager allows them to come in then that is the dress code.  On our last trip, I found some of the fancy dresses to be way more obscene than some of the nice shorts and t-shirts that were allowed. 

I think it is a sorry situation when a Maitre'd or cruise line employee must referee what is appropriate dress.  I am somewhat old school in that I have enough respect for others (Oh the Horror) to comply with a reasonable dress code.  But I do understand that these days many folks only think about, "me me me" and have little sense of personal responsibility or respect for others.

 

I also would agree that dress codes (and related mores) have changed to a more casual attitude in recent years.  But there are still basic standards which separates a civilized society from the jungle.  

 

Hank

[no1talks]

57 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

"...wearing spots of my dinner, I never thought it to be practical."

When dressed in this manner, I find myself more circumspect in my dining. 😁 

[morpheusofthesea]

Terribly disconcerting that a cruise line, which may or may not, be considered a premium line. We who cruise in the Yacht Club consider this "ship within a ship" to be an oasis of a luxury line. MSC trys to extend this aura of the YC throughout the ship. The disconcerting part is that on the first sea day of every cruise in the 'Important to Know' section of the Daily Planner, the cruise line must remind guests both in and out of the YC to adhere to proper etiquette while on this "luxury" vessel.

Edited September 14, 2022 by morpheusofthesea

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

The disconcerting part is that on the first sea day of every cruise in the 'Important to Know' section of the Daily Planner, the cruise line must remind guests both in and out of the YC to adhere to proper etiquette while on this "luxury" vessel.

 

And, that is the sign of the times.  Unfortunately.  

 

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I also would agree that dress codes (and related mores) have changed to a more casual attitude in recent years.  But there are still basic standards which separates a civilized society from the jungle. 

 

I so agree!  

 

1 hour ago, no1talks said:

When dressed in this manner, I find myself more circumspect in my dining. 😁 

 

🤣   I try to be.  But, what does one do with a tie, whenever I wear it in a restaurant on land or at sea and I order a salad with 1000 Island Dressing that seems to have an affinity for that dressing?  

 

 

[rigs32]

Cruises started to become less formal right around the same time that airlines started charging for luggage.  I tend to fly Southwest, so can still bring plenty of items, but I would not pay for an extra bag each way just to pack more clothing/shoes that I would only wear for a few hours.

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, rigs32 said:

Cruises started to become less formal right around the same time that airlines started charging for luggage.  I tend to fly Southwest, so can still bring plenty of items, but I would not pay for an extra bag each way just to pack more clothing/shoes that I would only wear for a few hours.

Not sure how that justifies guys wearing raggedy shorts, wife beater shirt, and a backwards ball cap into a MDR.  We saw this (several times) on a Enchanted Princess cruise last December!  I think most of us have cut back on packing (because of the airlines) but one can still pack a decent shirt and slacks.   And a real gentleman does not wear a hat indoors (unless he is in Texas or Oklahama and wearing a Stetson) .  I mention the hat thing because I know that many will disagree.  But here is a link to a story on the issue 🙂

Why Hats Aren’t Worn Indoors – 5 Reasons – Hat Realm

 

Hank

[no1talks]

1 hour ago, rigs32 said:

"...clothing/shoes that I would only wear for a few hours."

All the more reason to dress for dinner every evening! 😁

[morpheusofthesea]

9 hours ago, rigs32 said:

Cruises started to become less formal right around the same time that airlines started charging for luggage.

An astute observation. All the more reason to be more 'selective' in ones apparel.

[morpheusofthesea]

It will be most interesting to see what standards will be upheld on MSC's new Explora Journeys sailings in the restaurants. Look forward to reporting the similarities between the YC and Explora. Will miss the butlers not being able to butt in front of every line/queue (a most enjoyable perk of YC).

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Will miss the butlers not being able to butt in front of every line/queue (a most enjoyable perk of YC).

 

On Explora, there shouldn't be any lines to deal with at all. 

 

1 hour ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Look forward to reporting the similarities between the YC and Explora.

 

I'm waiting until "real" reviews come in from Yacht Club guests before I book Explora. I look forward to your review and reviews from a couple of other YC regulars. 

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, rigs32 said:

Cruises started to become less formal right around the same time that airlines started charging for luggage

 

So what?  If one can afford a cruise, why couldn't one also afford whatever baggage charges the greedy airlines want to charge?  No one wants to pay more than they need to do, I realize.  But, if a cruise is a special occasion for one, then, why wouldn't one want to make it "special" in how one is attired?  

[JAGR]

14 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

So what?  If one can afford a cruise, why couldn't one also afford whatever baggage charges the greedy airlines want to charge?  No one wants to pay more than they need to do, I realize.  But, if a cruise is a special occasion for one, then, why wouldn't one want to make it "special" in how one is attired?  

We personally dress well when we cruise, but I think you've hit on the key here:  A cruise may be a 'special occasion' for some, but it is not that necessarily that special of an occasion to all.  It is a change that I see on the way people dress (or not dress!) on airplanes and even job interviews.  In the last five hiring interviews I have conducted, one person wore a suit, and one person work a tie.  The others wore polo shirts, and one even had jeans on.  At one time, air travel and job interviews were viewed as 'special occasions,' as I recall.

 

Bottom line is that I follow what are proper guidelines for me based on the way I was raised.  That includes wearing clean underwear when I travel. 😉

[rigs32]

Not sure why so many of you assume I'm showing up to dinner in raggedy clothing.  But no, I no longer take seven formal outfits plus matching shoes to cruise.  I will dress appropriately, but I spend all day every day at work in a formal suit and heels.  Vacation is a time for me to relax.  

 

Though if you want my actual opinion, I agree with a previous poster that someone can look really sharp in well fitted clothing that technically breaks dress code and look like a slob in an outfit that conforms.

[morpheusofthesea]

7 hours ago, rigs32 said:

Though if you want my actual opinion, I agree with a previous poster that someone can look really sharp in well fitted clothing that technically breaks dress code and look like a slob in an outfit that conforms.

All opinions are welcome.  'Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder'. It boils down to upbringing.

"Provided that the dress code is written clearly, is not excessive or onerous, is applied in a consistent fashion, and does not obviously discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion, and perhaps ethnicity, the code is constitutional and does not violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. A dress code that discriminated on the basis of gender would be struck down. However, dress codes that are consistent with social customs can be upheld. " 

 "A practical international formality scale.

Classifications are divided into formal wear (full dress), semi-formal wear (half dress), and informal wear (undress). Anything below this level is referred to as casual wear, although sometimes in combinations such as "smart casual" or "business casual" in order to indicate higher expectation than none at all."

" Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu argues in his

treatise Distinction (1984), the dominant social classes tend to possess ..... "cultural capital".  In matters of dress, this capital manifests itself in the possession of refined taste and sensibilities that are passed down from generation to generation or are acquired in educational establishments."

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, JAGR said:

At one time, air travel and job interviews were viewed as 'special occasions,' as I recall.

 

Never would I have considered going to a job interview in anything less than coat and tie.  Air travel, at the time of my first flight and for many years afterwards, coat and tie in Coach was the proper dress.  And all were so attired.

 

46 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

" Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu argues in his

treatise Distinction (1984), the dominant social classes tend to possess ..... "cultural capital".  In matters of dress, this capital manifests itself in the possession of refined taste and sensibilities that are passed down from generation to generation or are acquired in educational establishments."

 

Thanks for posting this.  That says it all for those of us who have any thoughts about this issue.  

 

The next question is, I think, what is the "dominant social class" with the "cultural capital" that is being "passed down from generation to generation"?  "Acquired in educational establishments" ?  Not sure that statement is relevant in 2022.  I frequently return to my Alma Mater, a liberal arts oriented and very loosely affiliated  religious university.  I have observed the changes in dress in her students over time.  Quite a shock on the day that I saw two young men dressed in knee length dresses.  And the other students seem not to "blink an eye".